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FEBRUARY 2023

What “Victory” and “Defeat” Would Mean in Ukraine’s War

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What "Victory" and "Defeat" Would Mean in Ukraine's War

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Written by Eric Zuesse

In order to be able accurately to define “victory” in the war in Ukraine, the pre-requisite is to define whom the two sides are that wage this war. For example: when America fought in WW II, it was waging war in foreign battlefields and with its own troops and weapons, and even if America were to win in any of those battlefields, it still could have been defeated in WW II simply by Hitler’s winning WW II. Any given battlefield was only a part of the war itself; and that war, WW II, was not defined by any one of its many battlefields. There is a difference between a battlefield in which a war is being waged, versus the war that is being waged.

However: when America fought and still fights in Syria, it wages war on that battlefield against Syria, for regime-change in that nation; and ONLY by replacing Syria’s Government with one that the U.S. Government supports would America (and its allies in that war) “win” that war, in that battlefield (Syria), which is that war’s ONLY battlefield. In that instance, then, winning that battlefield is the same as winning the war there, by America and its allies, against that nation. America (unlike in WW II) does not wage this war against Syria by using its own troops and weapons but instead by hiring proxy armies — mainly separatist Kurds and Al Qaeda-led jihadists — in order to achieve there a regime-change that the U.S. Government approves of. Unless and until that is done, America will have lost the war that it is fighting in Syria. (Perhaps this is a reason why U.S. troops are not fully withdrawn from there though Syria’s Government has repeatedly ordered them to leave: America doesn’t want to lose in Syria, as it did lose in Afghanistan and in Vietnam.) However: the war in Syria is not between Syria’s Government and America’s proxy-armies there; it is instead a war between America and Syria, which is being waged by America in that battlefield, using foreign troops, to defeat Syria.

Similarly, the war in Ukraine is not a war between Ukraine versus Russia, but, in Ukraine’s case, Ukraine is only a proxy battlefield and proxy army on America’s side.

The war in Ukraine is a war that America initiated against Ukraine in February 2014 by America’s coup there that overthrew Ukraine’s democratically elected and neutralist Government and replaced it by a rabidly anti-Russian and pro-American one on Russia’s border in order ultimately to become able to place just 317 miles away from the Kremlin U.S. missiles which would be only a five-minute flight-time away from nuking Russia’s central command — far to little time in order for Russia’s central command to be able to verify that launch and then to launch its own retaliatory missiles.

For America to win that war, by Ukrainians, in the battlefield of Ukraine (i.e., by that proxy army, in that proxy battlefield against Russia) would be to checkmate Russia and so to transform Russia into another U.S. vassal-nation, regardless of what Russians might want — and this is what the U.S. regime demands: “regime-change in Russia.” That is America’s (and its ‘allies’ or vassal-nations’) goal there.

For Russia to win that war in the battlefields of Ukraine would be for Russia to defeat the U.S.-imposed government there and to establish in Ukraine not the neutralist Government that had been there before America’s take-over of Ukraine in 2014 but instead a Russian-imposed Government that will order all U.S.-and-allied troops and advisors — including from all of America’s vassal-nations and especially from NATO — out of the country, and close the door, seal Ukraine’s borders against all U.S. vassal-nations. That would mean telling all Ukrainians who want to leave for “The West” to go and never come back into Ukraine. At that time, Russia would invite the U.S. and its vassal-nations (or ‘allies’) to provide to any such Ukrainian any assistance, financial or otherwise, that the person might need in order to relocate into the U.S. empire. However, even if the U.S.-and-allied side refuse to provide any such assistance, the person must relocate and never come back — even if the person would then be stateless. Anyone who wishes to remain in Ukraine would be required to sign an oath of loyalty to the new, pro-Russian, Ukrainian Government. That would automatically entail the right to vote in the new Ukraine’s future elections.

The only alternative to there being a clear win of this war by either side would be for America to agree to Russia’s demand that America recognize the legitimacy of the then-existing line of separation between the two sides, and for Russia to relocate its own capital away from Moscow, to Novosibirsk (1,900 miles away from Ukraine) or some other city that would be far enough away from NATO so that America would not within the forseeable future any longer be able, at all realistically, to aspire to checkmate against, and grab control over, Russia. That would entail concessions by both sides, no win for either side. (Moving the capital to Novosibirsk would also place the capital near the center of Russia and within its Asian part — better suited for the future, nearer to China, Beijing being 1,865 miles away.) America would continue to be the world’s biggest threat to peace; the only way to stop that would be for Russia to win in Ukraine against America.

America is attempting to carry out the plan that Cecil Rhodes came up with in 1877, and that Harry Truman committed America to on 25 July 1945, and that GHW Bush, starting on 24 February 1990, committed America and its allies to continue at least until Russia becomes conquered. Barack Obama merely started the present phase of this Rhodesist plan, a phase that could produce a nuclear WW III and end everything, if Russia fails to achieve a clear win against the U.S. empire.

Investigative historian Eric Zuesse’s new book, AMERICA’S EMPIRE OF EVIL: Hitler’s Posthumous Victory, and Why the Social Sciences Need to Change, is about how America took over the world after World War II in order to enslave it to U.S.-and-allied billionaires. Their cartels extract the world’s wealth by control of not only their ‘news’ media but the social ‘sciences’ — duping the public.

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Cromwell

For the American Reich and Nato it would mean yet another defeat,but they can just walk away and leave Ukraine in ruins,for Russia its a war they must win because defeat would mean the end of the Russian federation as a sovereign independent State and the American Reich rampant on the Globe ,this is much bigger than Ukraine its about the whole World and its future,so losing isn’t an option for Russia its as simple as that.

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Florian Geyer

The EU/UK will also be in Ruins whoever wins.

Slava Rossiya

Oy!

Sounds like good solution, not a single country would cry if Russia desintegrate. The opposite. And belive me it will be also better future for ordinary Russians. They are smart and hardy – they will do well if they are part of what we call today the West… as far from Putin and KGB as possible…

William White

Ah yes America is such a free and beautiful Country with no problems respected and loved by all! Trust me she ain’t what he/she/they used to be. And what a magnificent leader, wow!

Bridgeindawater

@William White

You say that knowing, for example, that even on this ‘pro-russian’ SF website the mods are deleting all the precious infos, videos, comments which do not support their pro-Putin position. So there is no freedom of speech here as well. Same goes for the EU. USA has more freedom of speech but they have other means and methods of hindering people from talking the truth in place. Pastor Ray Hagins tells you about it, see: https://www.freespeechtube.org/v/11mz . Whatever, if you are really interested in the truth you need to start informing yourself of what’s behind it all, who is really calling the shots and why are things happening as they are. Learning, understanding, researching etc. takes time – it’s like cooking good healthy meal. But people today got lazy, they consume things, they do not create them themselves anymore, they have this ‘ McDonald’s mindset’ – this way they make it easy for the evildoers to poison their minds and souls.

I did long search today to bring to you this (below) very informative documentation in english. Here you will see point to point how USA, EU, and Russia are constructed, by whom, and what this means. It is a docu that is much more than 10 years old and still it predicts perfectly everything we see happening today before our very eyes.

I tell you: Knowledge is power, and if you have no knowledge of the true dynamics behind the scene, you will always get misled by those who work for those who know about them. Here this docu will help you understand things, and see through the fog. http://rlu.ru/3abFr

( it is called – Europe – The Last Battle )

Last edited 2 months ago by Bridgeindawater
Bridgeindawater

@William White

Russia is already defeated and enslaved since 1917.

Here for you.

As again we see here these know-nothing people talking about the ‘evil nazis’ and such bullshit, when in fact these german people simply wanted to live in peace and autark not being slaves and depended on the jewish foul finacial system. Because of this strict attitude they were first forced into WW2, then totally bombed, raped and are occupied since 1945 by the Allied Forces of World Jewry.

And then infiltrated, tortured in every possible way and alienated from themselves. Their children are told lies since birth, and the whole world gets told lies by Jews about the bad evil Germans aka Nazis. When in fact it is the exact other way around. The Jews attacked every decent, great and honourable nation and civilisation of thelast at least 1500 years. They destroyed ancient Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome and the Ottoman Empire and then the Russian Empire and the German Empire.If we look close we see that the British Empire too fell victim to these parasites.

And intelligent russian men and women know that it is true what I say. See: http://rlu.ru/39CuX Also the old Chechens they know it. Just the young brainwashed russian generation, same as the young european generation, they know nothing but the weired and fake infos presented to them by the global jewish newsnetwork stations.(May it be those from USA,EU,or Russia or China – it is all led by the same hook-nosed parasites).

All those antichristian networks, websites, persons etc. who are satanic and therefore do not stand on the ground of the truth, are unable to let the truth stand, and therefore they always try to ban, delete, and forbid it, resp. try stopping the truth from being spoken out, or from reaching the ears and eyes of the blinded and brainwashed. They are afraid of real information, because they want the people to stay inside the matrix and stay gullible and stupid and foolish. As stupid people are the best slaves. And that’s what the global government NWO/JWO (Jewish World Order) needs.

You see this here on this website. As the mods are deleting all the precious infos, videos, comments which do not support their pro-Putin position. So there is no freedom of speech here as well. Same goes for the EU. USA has more freedom of speech but they have other means and methods in place, for hindering people from talking the truth openly.

Therefore I advice everybody here to copy the links from this comment, before the comment is deleted. The suppressive and censoring acts of the mods of this SF board really show the real face of todays Russia and how “free” the russian society under Putin is, as no opposition thoughts and information is allowed.

Pastor Ray Hagins tells you about it, see: https://www.freespeechtube.org/v/11mz . Whatever, if you are really interested in the truth you need to start counterchecking everything, informing yourself of what’s behind it all, who is really calling the shots and why are things happening as they are. Learning, understanding, researching etc. takes time – it’s like cooking good healthy meal. But people today got lazy, they consume things, they do not create them themselves anymore, they have this ‘ McDonald’s mindset’ – this way they make it easy for the evildoers to poison their minds and souls.

I did long search today to bring to you this (below) very informative documentation in english. Here you will see point to point how USA, EU, and Russia are constructed, by whom, and what this means. It is a docu that is much more than 10 years old and still it predicts perfectly everything we see happening today before our very eyes.

I tell you: Knowledge is power, and if you have no knowledge of the true dynamics behind the scene, you will always get misled by those who work for those who know about them. Here this docu will help you understand things, and see through the fog. https://tinyurl.com/5cphvpy9

( it is called – Europe – The Last Battle here at least part 1-5 – if link is broken then look for it at see at archive.org )

Last edited 1 month ago by Bridgeindawater
Eric Zuesse

That’s it, in a nutshell!!!

Muhammad Allah جثث فاسدة مصاصة الديك

The Zionist-dominated USA is trying to open up new conflicts at Russia’s borders and Russia is being forced into full mobilization with war on several fronts.

The United States will intervene with healthy and well-resourced soldiers when the warring parties are exhausted and lack resources after several years of war.

US Zionists would like to be the victor and write post-war history in the same way they did after 1945

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Mexican American 🇲🇽

You mean horny and perverted LGBT soldiers 🤣

William White

They’ll be broke and out of business fighting their own civil war before that happens. Could be any day now.

Ivan Freely

War on foreign nations have always united the nation in the past.

N.N.

I sincerely hope that this comes earlier rather than later.

Crimea is 100% Liberated

Have we won yet? is Donetsk ukraine?

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bert33

comment thing is broken

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Sephiroth

Honestly, Russia had the golden chance to change the world order and destroy the US hegemony. Had the military been successful in conducting the special operation, more and more countries would have aligned with Russia, and the western countries would have gradually decreased weapons supplies and support to Ukraine, sensing the danger. However, we are witnessing the opposite.

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Oy!

New Russia without Putin will also make bright future. What Russians need, is to make true friendship with Poland rather than constantly undermine Polish aspirations… we are brothers after all

Sephiroth

I think you need to tell that to Poland instead Russia.

William White

Yer retarded brother is not worth spending time with.

PrigozhinSuckedDicksWhileInJail😆😆😆

Russia already lost against Ukraine. Only a little bit of support with western weapons was enough to wipe out the “mighty” rusty russian army 🤣🤣🤣

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S-500

Thats why Russian army still has a territory which have the size of Portugal?

USA#1!

The Allies won’t stop until russia is thrown out of Donbas & Crimea…

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Yuri

monkey pox LGBT loser tiresome

none

Charles 1707, Napoleon 1812, and Hitler 1941 had the same idea. They were slaughtered.

PrigozhinSuckedDicksWhileInJail😆😆😆

See, the attackers always lost. Same with Putin now.

Jon

No. Those three had a totally different idea. They invaded and sought to occupy Russia: a fools errand.

In this case NATO was fighting with Aikido strategy and Putin should have known his own momentum would cause him to trip. He fell for it.

The rest will be history.

N.N.

As we say, “many dogs are the hare’s death”. Don’t be complacent.

William White

So never then?

Beef

Defeat means Russian will be the main producer of salt.

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Yuri

Russian victory assured—the Kherson trap has deceived the morons

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PrigozhinSuckedDicksWhileInJail😆😆😆

🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂

NATO is laughing at you

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

none

Charles 1707, Napoleon 1812, and Hitler 1941 all believed Russia would be a walk in the park. Today, most Americans think the same. I say this. You do what you need to do, just don’t say you were not warned.

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Oy!

Without money and military equipment provided by USA to Stalin, soviets were a walk in the park for Germans. Just saying…

Max Schmidt

most military equipment of the Red army was produced in Russia. Just like today.

N.N.

But most equipment of the Red Army was produced with machines imported from the US.

Loten

ᴛʜᴇ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛᴀᴛᴏʀs ᴏɴ ᴛʜɪs ᴡᴇʙsɪᴛᴇ ʙᴇᴍᴜsᴇ ᴍᴇ… ᴛʜᴇʏ ᴀʀᴇ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴛʏᴘɪᴄᴀʟ ᴡʜɪᴛᴇ sᴜᴘʀᴇᴍᴀᴄʏ ʟᴏᴠɪɴɢ ʀᴀᴄɪsᴛs ᴡʜᴏ sᴇᴇᴍs ᴛᴏ ᴡᴀɴᴛ ᴛᴏ ᴅᴇsᴛʀᴏʏ ɴᴀᴢɪ’s.. sᴏᴍᴇ ᴋɪɴᴅ ᴏғ ᴘᴏᴡᴇʀ sᴛʀᴜɢɢʟᴇ? ᴀʟsᴏ ᴀᴘᴘᴀʀᴇɴᴛʟʏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴊᴇᴡs ᴀɴᴅ ɴᴀᴢɪ’s ᴀʀᴇ ᴄᴏʟʟᴀʙᴏʀᴀᴛᴏʀs ᴛᴏᴏ? sʟɪᴄᴇ ᴍᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴀᴋᴇ !

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kotromanic

Well look up the pre maidan movement meatings in paris.

The jew Levy invited the ukrainian klitschko, the jew yatzenyuk and the nazi tjahnibok to forge an alliance against russia and eastern ukrainians.

It is an temporary alliance of convinience. I do not think that any of those ally want their “partners” to survive the war just use them as cannonfooder or funders for their war effort.

Eric Zuesse

Re. “The Jews and Nazis are collaborators too?”: That is FALSE as regards “the Jews” because SOME Jews (just like SOME Christians, etc.) are NOT racist fascists — are NOT ideologically nazis — and your “the Jews” is thus FALSE. BUT SOME Jews (PERHAPS even a MAJORITY of the ones in Israel) ARE racist-fascists (against Palestinians), as is documented here: https://archive.ph/3lWEZ

There is no difference between U.S.-and-allied billionaires who are Jews and ones who are Christians (etc.) because NONE OF THEM (no billionaire) opposes neoconservatism (a U.S. all-inclusive global empire: hegemony). NONE! And MANY of them ACTIVELY DONATE TO (fund) the lobbying and politicians who carry it out (such as Biden and DeSantis). So: ALL billionaire (and not ONLY Jewish ones) are U.S. hegemonists: American nazis, but SOME are passively so.

N.N.

They are so overwhelmingly “Nazi”, and not only against the Palestinians, that it is hard to find the very few individuals who are not. I’d like to count Norman Finkelstein and Israel Shahak amongst those, but none of those “Gentiles are not human beings at all”-variety, who appear to occupy ~20% of the seats in the Knesset, and who particiate in the government. There is a HUGE difference between (some) Jewish billionaires and Christian billionaires. Look at the “works” of Cleon Peterson and the Gitana 17 to get an idea. I haven’t seen any Christian billionaire promoting genocide against all non-white people, but Edmond de Rothschild promotes black people annihilating all white people (thus sponsoring BLM to get the job done). That IS a different quality, in my book.

Assad Defeated Zionists

Russia is already on its way to victory, they just need to continue those attacks on the power-energy grid until freezing Ukrainians tired of war topple the Zelenskyy regime.

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Atlan

Russian conscripts riot in Kazan and leave one of the training units en masse. Watch on Kazan video

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Vanya

Russian would need to be in charge of Russia for the Russians to win. Instead they have some crackhead Jew who used to own a football club in London in charge. For Russia to be free they need to free themselves of the foreign oligarchs who control the economy.

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kotromanic

The problem is that russia was allways what you say they need to get rid of.

What you call orgarchs now where bolshevics in the sowjet era and “advisers” in the tsarist era.

There is no past in which it was not so that anyone in charge their could remember.

The same can be said or britain, france and even the us.

Jon

Eric you shouldn’t smoke a big dooby before you write. The result is incoherence.

Max Schmidt

If Russia loses, she will use nukes against the NATO. This is a fact. So, for us who live in Western countries… lets PRAY that Russia win against the Ukronazis, in a conventional way, as this is the lesser evil than the West (collective) to be ashed by hypersonic nukes.

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kotromanic

The economic defeat of the much stronger sowjet union did not result in a nuke on washington so why would it be different now? Thats probably why the us is doing what they do they seem to be sure that russia will just give up like in 1990.

Max Schmidt

You can not compare economical defeat with a hot war like this one. “would it be different now?” Now Russia has a leader with balls. And hypersonic nukes. Which can not be intercept by NATO.

kotromanic

They had a bigger tech advantage towards the us in 1990, much better numbers and the frontline was much further west.

I do not say they should give up i just say the us is somehow sure they will. And nothing putin did in the last couple months have changed their mind.

Just look how they just took the attacks of iran on their base in iraq without much retaliation. They know that iran will not back down even if it means their destruction.

But i do not see much backing down towards russia only the one time recently when the missile hit poland the told very fast that it was not a russian one. So fast that their little puppets in poland and ukraine still continued with the story of the russian attack.

N.N.

I guess Russia has learnt a lesson or two in the meantime. Or at least, I hope so.

Tommy Jensen

Today Ukraine was shelling Donetsk again killing many Russian civilians and schools. Kremlin says it will mobilize 200 000 more troops making it total 500 000 troops to storm Donbass in the new year, if they do it again.

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Last edited 2 months ago by Tommy Jensen
Mini Tactical Hypersonic Nuke locked on Kiev

200k sounds cool. They definitively should mobilize them, just to be on the safe side.

N.N.

They should “storm” all of Ukraine, maybe Kiev first. Looking at only “conquering” Donbas and then have the Ukrops shell them every day is imho a very dumb idea. Sorry. My idea is to get at least everything east of the Dnjepr, plus a big corridor on the south side that includes Odessa. Why was Strelkov recalled in 2015, when they were winning?!?

Putin is sad

Problem for Russia is that the number of Ukrainians that favor Russia are diminishing by the day. Each cold night in Kiev increases resentment against Russia.

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kotromanic

This number diminished into the graves around your ukrainian cities since 2014 each night in which the worshipers of bandera roamed the streets and i am sure you were cheering every time.

Chris Gr

The fight in the world is not just between Russia and US. Reality is not black and white.

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North Koreans won against the US back in the 50ies

It’s the so called fair “South” which is multipolar (the good guys) against the evil imperialistic US unipolar Fascism

It depends, however, states like Qaddafi’s Libya, Saddam’s Iraq, Assad’s Syria, Eritrea, North Korea have been totalitarian hellholes.

peter mcloughlin

Terms like “victory” or “defeat” are somewhat meaningless in a conflict on course for WWIII. The warnings are there from history – but ignored. https://patternofhistory.wordpress.com/

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