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Weapons Of Karabakh War: The Soviet OSA-AKM SAM Defense System

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Weapons Of Karabakh War: The Soviet OSA-AKM SAM Defense System

ILLUSTRATIVE IMAGE

The 9K33 Osa (NATO reporting name SA-8 Gecko) is a highly mobile, low-altitude, short-range tactical surface-to-air missile system developed in the Soviet Union in the 1960s and fielded in 1972.

The OSA-AKM is a version of the Osa with improved anti-helicopter capability.

In the mid-1970’s a need was identified for a new version of Osa capable of shooting down the NATO helicopters that threatened Warsaw Pact tank formations.

For this role a 9A33BM3 vehicle was developed that could fire a mixture of 9M33M3 radio-guided and wire-guided missiles from a single vehicle. In 1980, the modernised Osa-AKM 9K33M3 was accepted by the PVO and surface forces and began serial production at the Izhevsk Electromechanical Works Minradioprom (9A33BM3 missile) and at the Kirov Machinery Works named for the 20th Party Conference Minaviaprom (9M33M3 missile), where all Osa vehicles and their missiles were built.

The system is intended for defense on troops on the march and in mobile combat, as well as of strategic ground facilities against airstrikes delivered by manned or unmanned air vehicles flying at low and medium altitudes.

All versions of the OSA-AKM feature all-in-one 9A33 transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) vehicles which can detect, track and engage aircraft independently or with the aid of regimental surveillance radars.

Weapons Of Karabakh War: The Soviet OSA-AKM SAM Defense System

Click to see full-size image

The OSA-AKM is armed with 6 missiles ready to fire, mounted on the roof of the vehicle. The missile is tracked by a radio-command guiding system.

The Loading platform can carry from 2 to 6 guided missiles. The engagement range for the SA-8 Gecko missile is approximately 2–9 km and engagement altitudes of between 50–5000 m. The 9M33M2 “Osa-A” missile extends the ranges out to 1,500 – 10,000m and engagement altitudes to 25 – 5,000 m.

The 9M33M3 missile greatly enhances the altitude engagement envelope to 10 – 12,000 m, and as such are also able to fly further (about 15 km/9 miles) but the system is not able to engage targets at longer ranges, due to other factors such as the radar tracking of the missiles.

The driver’s compartment at the front of the vehicle has accommodation for two, the driver and commander, with access to it via a hatch in the roof. There are no other entrance/exit hatches apparent on the vehicle.

The OSA-AKM is a six-wheeled design designated BAZ-5937. It is based on a number of earlier six-wheeled all-terrain vehicles developed by V A Grachev’s design team at the Likhachev Automobile Plant in Moscow.

The vehicle is fully amphibious, being propelled in the water by two water-jets at the rear of the hull. Before entering the water, a trim vane, which is folded back onto the glacis plate when not in use, is erected at the front of the hull.

Each battery has four SA-8 SPU launcher vehicles and two 9T217BM2 TZM reload vehicles each with 12 reload rounds.

The TZMs are supported by 24 ZIL-131 (6 × 6) cargo trucks used as a missile transporter by the regimental Transport Company.

The maintenance and repair unit uses the 9V242-1 automated mobile test station, the 9V914-adjustment tower, the 9V210M3-maintenance vehicle, the 9F372M3 SPTA-2 vehicle and the 9F632M electronic simulator for crew training.

Azerbaijan uses the OSA-AKM, but it was upgraded by Belarus to the OSA-1T standard.

The 9K33-1T “Osa-1T” was developed by UE “Tetraedr” from Belarus. The upgrade included the following:

  • the 9А33-1Т TELAR or “Combat Vehicle” (CV), based on the original BAZ-5937 (or the new MZKT-69222) and equipped with a new day/night camera system OES-1T instead of the original day-only 9Sh33 or 9Sh38-2 “Karat”;
  • the 9M33M2 or -3 SAMs, or the new 9M33M3-1 with a range of 20 km;
  • the 9Т217-1T Transportation and Loading Vehicle (TLV);
  • the 9V210-1T Maintenance Vehicle (MV);
  • the 9V214-1T Alignment Vehicle (AV);
  • the 9V242-1T Automatic Mobile Check-up and Testing Station (AKIPS) and
  • the 9F16M2 Ground Equipment Kit (GEK)

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RichardD

Air defense and air cover are the keys to the N-K war. The other is terrain. At this time the imbalance in air power in favor of the attackers. Is neutralizing the defender’s terrain advantage. Now that the contact lines have moved off the plain into the mountains.

Putin talked with the Azeri and Armenian leaders yesterday. If the Azeris continue the offensive, and the Armenians continue their betrayal of the Artsahks. Putin will have two choices. Look the other way as the Armenian color revolution traitors allow N-K to be overrun. Which will probably result in turning Armenia over to NATO. Or establish relations with the isolated Artsahk government. And provide them the direct support to stop the Azeri advance.

Which will help put a brake on the color revolution in Armenia. And improve Russia’s standing with many Armenians.

Steve Standley

I fear that a new sort of air defense needs to be employed for these cheap abundant drones. they saturate expensive missile based air defense systems too easily, and the targets are very small for AAA.

RichardD

It’s the bigger ones taking out heavy weapons and troop formations that are the main problem. A anti aircraft missile is a lot cheaper than a destroyed heavy weapon or a bunch of troops getting killed.

The smaller ones with cameras and lasers used for recon and targeting are also a problem. But those go both ways. With both sides using them they’re something of an offset. Assuming that both sides have the heavy weapons to use the info. Right now it looks like there’s an imbalance in long range precision missile capability favoring the Azeris.

Steve Standley

There is an imbalance in long range capabilities, but many of these drones are loitering munitions. Suicide drones. Example from Israel. I’m sure youve seen the little drones hitting the trenches. And the cutting edge way to deploy them is in swarms. Perhaps I’m getting ahead of myself, but armenia is certainly not prepared for more of this…

Rhodium 10

there are loitering drones…but also guide artillery and ground to ground missile laser&GPS guide…OSA system can shot down drones as we seen in many photos of Harop and Orbiter beside one TB2 shot down…but drones with laser pointer use to fly above 5000mts and TB2 6500 mts…all of them out of the range alttitude of OSA SA-8 which only have been able to shot down loitering drones when they have been flying above 5000mts towards targets….but they cannot shot down surveillance drones above 5000mts and it is the problem of NK army!

RichardD

No, I haven’t seen the little drones hitting the trenches. Though I’m sure that small anti personal drones exit.

I wouldn’t want to get hit by one. But I question how much of a game changer they are compared to the bigger ones.

The Russians shut down the drone problem in Syria and Libya. The Armenian military has most of what it needs to do it in Artsahk. But Pashinyan is preventing it.

Jens Holm

Its a matter of all seizes and improvements. We saw the ISIS helicopter version very accurat throw 2 kilo morters and destroy trucks as well as small groups of soldiers and now and then quite succesfull.

The soldiers then learned to look up much more and could shoot sown at least soe of them.

Assads even found an old aircraft gun with 4 big machineguns to do it.

Jens Holm

I see exact the same. Armenia has a heavy armed but old army and here we see its limitations.

Seen from what are showed they are very bad to camouflage them and keep them in the open too much. They might have learned by that.

Its the same around the world. We make smaller but upgraded to the next level military forces.

I saw it well from Syria 2 days ago. Some Jihadist suddenly has some old 150 mm canon and its dead now, because it was easy was found. It was a good carch for the enemy.

I dont know where it came from but smaller canons, which they after a few accurate shot could move to new firing positions or hide fast might be much better.

Jens Holm

Thats how it is. Azerbaidian partly has replaced their very bad army with all those flying objekts and seemes succesfull.

Jens Holm

Drones and antidrones are very innovative, so of course they will devellop mini ones in small morter seize fx based on 37 degrees too.

We have all reasons to work harder for keeping peace and regulations instead of this.

Denmark has ordered many F35s but I was and are against it. We should have ordered less and let drones do parts of their jobs. They can see things better – and as You say -. can throw smaller bombs for smaller targets much better.

We also dont loose pilots or has to look, whats left of them.

Leif Oskar Zetterstrøm

Denmark dropped many Libyan bombs in the Zionist-USA war against Gaddafi in Libya. Denmark pays for aircraft and other war materiel and the Zionist-USA use it in its wars around the world. Smartly done.

Jens Holm

Of course we do. Criminals like him should have been killed decades before we did.

And as we see all poosible replacers which could take over and regain the state, was killed by him too.

And no. Denmark dont pay. We participate as equal small partners many places in the world with own forces and equipment.

We are in Mali, At the Hormuz street, Afghanistan, Iraq and Afghanistan. I am not for parts of it and preafare learning others by TV, Radio and Internet and also a wall west of Istanbull.

I sont see any zionisme in and by USA at all. I see all westerns are in an economic system system, which works well. Parts of that is very old and used because it works well.

Its true we are close related to USA. Its very good for small ones to have bigger friends. But we are friends, when a Trump propose to just buy Greenland. Number one is to ask the inuits there first and number two is asking the Danish population by voting.

If people learned to solve their own problems better, we would be less there. Many muslim countries knows nothing about cleaning their own house. Its hard Haram for them to do not. So its not about Daffy but how the rest still alive has a life or not.

You probatly see him as this: comment image

Kohlhaas

Russia does not even need to send direct support to NK, only thing they need to do is “ask” Azerbaijan to stop. Russia has much better relations with Azerbaijan currently, they won’t intervene and I think you are wrong about Nato prediction. Once they lost the war Pashinyan will gone and pro-Russian government will take the power.

Servet Köseoğlu

lol@Nato scenarios..All Nato exhibition will be limited with Pfp and civil emergency exercises and Nato general’s fake speech at Erevan universities in Armenia soil..thats all..Here the war is going on..I don’t see even Nato’s Individual partnership Action Plan in Armenia where Nato has specific expertise..

Kohlhaas

No Nato for Armenia… not in the close future.

Jens Holm

I dont think they have even simple internet that and memorylacks too. I often disagree with You and when we agree in this, he should think its highly correct.

Jens Holm

Nato is not in those countries. You are lied for again or reacll dreams of Yours.

Those countries are in the Minsk Group, which intensions are helpong to negosiate peacefull solutions.

It is true those countries are helped some by Nato and EU in peaceful matter and by gifts as well as investments.

You should blame russia for leaving them in chaos and not the ones, which by normal friendly relations try to help them a little.

Normal relations are, You freely can improve by relations to others as well as doing a lot of things better Yourself.

Servet Köseoğlu

Do you have issues about understanding?Re-read what ı wrote…you are lied again!!! Another baseless sentence..why should ı lie and when did ı lie?Individual Partnership Action Plans (IPAPs) are in implementation with Armenia since 2005…

Jens Holm

Sorry. My dog is using my glasses.

RichardD

N-K will be gone with another humanitarian disaster. And Armenia will be a Jew infested disaster like Ukraine.

Kohlhaas

Humanitarian disaster? There were not many people living in NK at the first place, and most of them fleed anyways. A systematic revenge from Azeris would only harm them. They are winning and they have international support (at least more than Armenia), if they are clever they won’t do such a thing. But as I said most of the civilians escaped already.

Jens Holm

True for NK but the rest taken by Armenia in the last war has a popultion too and armenians. Here Azaerbaidianis was expelled from and many killed too.

Its a misery. I dont take side. The more I read the more I see it has been all being there has been figting as long back in time, I can see.

The worst I see was Romans and Persians divided the very defensive Armenian country. By that the Mongoliansand others before them got almost free entrence.

RichardD

So you don’t consider displaced people prevented from returning to their lives and homes who lose everything a humanitarian disaster? Maybe someone should kick your door in in the middle of the night, stick a loaded gun barrel in your mouth, and tell you to get the fuck out and never come back. And see how you like it.

The Armenians have been there for 1,500 years plus. They’re very heavily armed. The history of Azeri and Turk ethnic cleansing and genocide of Armenians is extensive. If you don’t see a humanitarian disaster in the making. Then you lack knowledge of the conflict or are being disingenuous.

I disagree with the international community’s inclusion of N-K in Azerbaijan. It’s clearly been Armenian for a very long time.

Kohlhaas

Why do you think I wrote “systematic revenge”?
All of your answers are in this phrase, I won’t bother to explain if you couldn’t understand.

And “Armenians there for 1,500 years plus”? Native Americans there for more than 10.000 years, Americans! Go back to Europe!
Writing such a thing shows that you clearly don’t know how the world works… It is not about whom you like most or who is older…

RichardD

You’re ignoring that systemic revenge against Armenians is something that the Turks and Azeris have a long history of and are currently carrying out. That makes you a fool and liar.

Azerbaijan got 39 out of 193 votes for including N-K as part of Azerbaijan. So obviously most of the UN shares my perspective and doesn’t agree that N-K isn’t Armenian:

“the United Nations General Assembly passed a non-binding resolution by a vote of 39 to 7, with 100 abstentions, reaffirming Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity, expressing support for that country’s internationally recognised borders and demanding the immediate withdrawal of all Armenian forces from all occupied territories there.”

– Republic of Artsakh –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Artsakh

Kohlhaas

“39 out of 193” as if the rest is against this decision. As you quoted there were 100 abentions, what this exactly shows? The world recognizes NK as Armenian land or they just simply don’t care? It is their responsibilty to attend a voting. The ones who cared favored Azerbaijan and it is end of the story.

That “long history” goes no more than 100 years, Ottoman reign was quite peaceful towards Armenians until WW1.

RichardD

It shows that international support for Azebaijan’s claim over N-K is extremely limited. And that’s with the 7 district Artsahk buffer zone that the Armenians cleared of Azeris following the breakup of the USSR included. Support for including N-K in Azerbaijan without the buffer zone borders on the non existent.

You’re either ignorant of Armenian history or are lying, which is it? I’m assuming the latter.

The long history of humanitarian disasters including ethnic cleansing and genocide at the hands of the Turks, Azeris, and Iranians in the region predates the Armenian genocide by several centuries. The Hamidian massacres by the Turks were 150 years ago.

“Over the centuries, tribes of Turks and Kurds settled into Anatolia and Armenia, which was left severely depopulated by a slew of devastating events such as the Byzantine-Persian Wars, Byzantine-Arab Wars, Turkish Invasions, Mongol Invasions and finally the bloody campaigns of Tamerlane. …

the battlegrounds of which ranged over Western Armenia (therefore large parts of the native lands of the Armenians), causing the region and its peoples to be passed between the Ottomans and Persians numerous times. The wars between the arch-rivals started from the early 16th century and lasted till well into the 19th century, having disastrous effects for the native inhabitants of these regions, including the Armenians of Western Armenia.”

– Armenians in the Ottoman Empire –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

“From 1604, Abbas I of Iran implemented a “scorched earth” policy in the region to protect his north-western frontier against any invading Ottoman forces, a policy that involved a forced resettlement of masses of Armenians outside of their homelands. …

In the 1813 Treaty of Gulistan and the 1828 Treaty of Turkmenchay, following the Russo-Persian War (1804–13) and the Russo-Persian War (1826–28), respectively, the Qajar dynasty of Iran was forced to irrevocably cede Eastern Armenia, consisting of the Erivan and Karabakh Khanates, to Imperial Russia.[72][73] This period is known as Russian Armenia.

While Western Armenia still remained under Ottoman rule, the Armenians were granted considerable autonomy within their own enclaves and lived in relative harmony with other groups in the empire (including the ruling Turks). However, as Christians under a strict Muslim social structure, Armenians faced pervasive discrimination. When they began pushing for more rights within the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Abdul Hamid II, in response, organised state-sponsored massacres against the Armenians between 1894 and 1896, resulting in an estimated death toll of 80,000 to 300,000 people. The Hamidian massacres, as they came to be known, gave Hamid international infamy as the “Red Sultan” or “Bloody Sultan”.”

– Armenia –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia

Kohlhaas

It also shows international support for Armenian claim even far beyond being “extremly limited”. It goes for both sides. What are we going to do about this huh? That’s why I wrote “at least more than Armenia” in my first comment.

Nope, I don’t have time for a discussion with a person who is trying to justify a side with absent votes on UN decisions… sigh What you are doing is to point out the empty side of the glass and claiming there is no water in it. Do you realize how moronic this sounds?

RichardD

The support for the Azerbaijan claim over N-K independent of the 7 buffer zone districts hasn’t been put to a UN vote.

Abstention votes mean that they don’t support the resolution. Azerbaijan couldn’t even get 20% of UN members to support it’s “internationally recognized” borders. That doesn’t look like much real politic recognition to me.

None of the UNSC P5/6 supported the resolution. France, Russia, and the US voted against it. I’m assuming that the Chinese abstained, and the British abstained citing:

“United Kingdom. According to Lord Howell of Guildford, his country abstained from voting “as the resolution did not take into account the Madrid Principles or Minsk Group process”.”
comment image

– United Nations General Assembly Resolution 62/243 –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_62/243

The Madrid Principles and Minsk Group process are essentially recognition of N-K as Armenian. This is what the UNSC P5/6 and most of the UNGA support. Even if it hasn’t been put to a vote. Which is why the Azerbaijan resolution received so little support.

“In July 2009, within the framework of the G8 summit in L’Aquila, Italy, the three leaders of the OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chair countries, Medvedev, Obama, and Sarkozy, released a statement urging the presidents of Armenia and Azerbaijan, Serzh Sargsyan and Ilham Aliyev, to “resolve the few differences remaining between them and finalize their arrangement on these Basic Principles”.[23]

According to that statement, the Basic Principles for the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict are based on the Helsinki Final Act (1975) principles of Non-Use of Force, Territorial Integrity, and the Equal Rights and Self-Determination of Peoples.[23]

The above-mentioned document also revealed six key elements for the settlement:

1. return of the territories surrounding Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijani control;

2. an interim status for Nagorno-Karabakh providing guarantees for security and self-governance;

3. a corridor linking Armenia to Nagorno-Karabakh;

4. future determination of the final legal status of Nagorno-Karabakh through a legally binding expression of will;

5. the right of all internally displaced persons and refugees to return to their former places of residence; and

6. international security guarantees that would include a peacekeeping operation.

At the same time the OSCE Co-Chairs urged the presidents of Armenia and Azerbaijan to resolve the few differences remaining between them and finalize their agreement on these Basic Principles, which outline a comprehensive settlement.”

– Madrid Principles –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_Principles

RichardD
Jens Holm

If so few Jews run so much its because the rest is bad and deserve to be runned by what we have in Our Zoos here.

Unfortunatly You are right. Their first very hard dispute made many dead, woinded and disputed from both sides.

The main parts of them were expelled Azarbaidianis from the areas Armania took – It wasnt only NK.

So the armed borders moves back and there is space for revenge. I dont feel much for any living there whatever they name themself as tigers against lons or cats against dog.

It is the same. The ones making that trouble should be killed first. Its a many 100 years old dispute and not made by Russia 1921 whatever.

Icarus Tanović

Indeed, seems that’s right.

occupybacon

If Artzakh is lost, there is no much poit of keeping relations only with Russia.

Servet Köseoğlu

comment image

Porc Halal

The “religion of peace” strikes again

Not a single day without islamic terror on the streets of Europe

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdv9rosdt_w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPISG07zGFM

Jens Holm

Thats highly incorrect. Maybee You have lost fingers and toes in Saudi Arabia,

I see 3 small attacks agains a population at 500 mio incl. UK.

Your worries should be Our right wings which we try to be limited and low. Those now hads no Jews to blame, but they have random muslims.

You also should be gratefull for muslims in Europe too, because we do find most of those agressive oslamists, because Muslims here know them better then us and tell us in trust.

We are sekular states and Macron and other by their and our costitutions dont accept extreme madness outside that.

Free speach including drawings, photos and paintings are a vital must for the base for us. We will never accept anything here being runned by Islam as well as Christianity and all other kinds of crap, we never created as has the opposite of use for.

We do accept moderate versions as long as they are inside Our constitution and makes no harm to us. The mainparts of mulisms here are like that too and accept our rules even some try to avoid them some.

But they are kind of sekular then us and fx have a job and support themself and by that are fine people as anyone else.

Porc Halal

I don’t understand the nonsense you said, except that you’re an idiot who (if you’re a true nordic native) doesn’t even know the history of his country… and, btw, I admire macron’s offensive against islam…but the admiration towards macron stops here…

Jens Holm

I know France well and the history much better then You.

Macron has no crackdown against Islam. He follow the Constitutution of 1958, where its by its people are decided its a SEKULAR STATE

Its exact the same for writings as well as those caroons. Those are VITALS for our sekular systems. You seemes to admire everything made in old cement.

We are not like that. Thats why France and other semilar systems are doing pretty well for most of us. I again would like a list for, whats better. I see none.

Must mulism in the whole world are more poor then any american on wellfare too.

That includes Islam. You seemes to ignore there is no big Islamic uprise there because the moderate muslims are not like Your kind.

Porc Halal

I told you you are a big retard. Unfortunately for you, there is no cure for your condition…

And believe me, you know shit about history and france history in particular…

I know what france constitution specifies towards religion faiths you moron..the thing is that until now islam as religion had a special status in france and was very protected by the state from what the constitution states vis-a-vis religion position within french society…

Jens Holm

Islam has no special status in France. It had no specific rules, because the muslims kept the ones as anybody else.

The changes came aming the muslims. If they escalate more and new and more detailed rules are made.

We in Denmark do exact the same for fx cybercrime or incest and try to put in ressources for those rules are kept.

The special rules You say for France is compared with several other European countries. So in France Your muslims has been and are more free then among the rest of Europe.

So You are upside down in this.

@Inc2Get

We currently do not have air defence against drones. Most AD’s search for larger aircrafts in different radio frequencies which makes drones almost invisible until they are within range to strike. S-300 and other AD’s are capable of bringing down drones but extremely ineffective at that. Countries such as Russia and US focus more on air craft defences rather than drone defences.

Jens Holm

Yes, its a matter of time and learning as well as need (and priority).

occupybacon

And those drones are integrated with radars mounted on F-16’s and another command center plane in Turkey. This was prepared years in before, where was Armenian and Russian intelligence, when they were integrating all these systems?

AGoodTurkIsADeadTurk??????

Colonel Hafiz Agayev, thank you for the jacket:)comment image

AGoodTurkIsADeadTurk??????

Lieutenant Nurlan Ekberov, your family can collect your ID papers from the Armenians of Artsakh :)comment image

AGoodTurkIsADeadTurk??????

More memorabilia of the Azeri army unit from Yevlakh :) You all looked so capable in your uniforms. Oh well:)comment image

PZIVJ

Death to Turks got a new account name and now has 3 comments. LOL

AGoodTurkIsADeadTurk??????

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

AGoodTurkIsADeadTurk??????

Eto nash zemlya suka

Jens Holm

And those weapons are donated by Israel, Zionists, Jews, Mossad, FBI, CIA, Donald Trump and Pompeo, so Putin can effort to make one more.

Someone says the driver will be Belphegor from Louvre with infrared mask by Macron. comment image

The Armta will fight the deep dark state by the cloned Belphegor.

dbohler

Putin is trator for not helping Armenia. Russia lost out agains Turkey big time here and another conflict prooves how little you can trust Russia as an ally or its trashy garbage like weapons systems which are totally ineffective agains a modern army. NATO would wipe out the Russian in any conflict. Totally wipe it out. But what can you expect from a terror state, not spending much more that Germany on its decrepit military !

Jens Holm

Very biased version.

Russia has been a more postive friend to Armenia then to Azaerbaudian. Thats not allied. I will remind You simple maps show how Russia already has been involved in the leftovers from their lost Neocolonialized non develloped Empire.

Secondly Nato according to Russia is a defence organisation and by that dont attack Russia but defend Ourselves against Russia. We have the Minsk treate as an affiliate to that. Its about negosiations and not warfare aming those 20 and the rest of us around them.

And yes, the difference in how we see things are different from Yours. Just because USSR collapsed it dont say we has to be above them. We easy could having a lot of money an expertice for it.

Instead we have used the saved money for, what we call peace dividend. We use the saved monet for wellfare and fx helping the 20 new countries up from their low ineffective and plundred levels. Parts of that is not succesfull, parts are. More and more understand the needed changes are hard and takes time, when there is no traditions for deciding themself and the needed responsability.

The worst I see here is, that when Caucasus finally are themselves having no Russia, no Turks and no Persians sitting on they, they start frighting each other.

You and others should feel ashamed for You now attack each other second time learnin nothing from number ones as well.

And You: You have forgotten Armenia not only has taken NK but also kept several areas which was and are Azaerbaidian and it seclared by UN, that NK certainly is not a part of Armenia as well as an own state.

So I see revenge and most likely the armenians this time will suffer more then the Azerbaidianians.

..And next time ….

You both are bad people and scum hardly deserving anything like a state. Maybee zoo keepers should be the best Presidents for You :(

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