US-Chinese Tension: Enouncter Between Chinese And US Warships In South China Sea

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US-Chinese Tension: Enouncter Between Chinese And US Warships In South China Sea

USS Decatur. FILE IMAGE: Diana Quinlan/US Navy/Reuters

On September 30th, Arleigh Burke guided-missile destroyer USS Decatur (DDG-73) had an encounter with a Chinese warship, with the two vessels being as close as 45 yards to one another, according to US Navy officials.

At about 8:30 a.m. local time, Decatur was conducting freedom of navigation operations (FONOps) in the vicinity of Gaven Reef in the South China Sea. China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) Luyang-class destroyer approached Decatur, which was operating within 12 nautical miles of the Gaven and Johnson Reefs in the Spratly Islands, Cmdr. Nathan Christensen, a U.S. Pacific Fleet spokesman was cited by Usni News.

“The (People’s Republic of China) PRC destroyer conducted a series of increasingly aggressive maneuvers accompanied by warnings for Decatur to depart the area. The PRC destroyer approached within 45 yards of Decatur’s bow, after which Decatur maneuvered to prevent a collision,” Christensen said.

“At approximately 0830 local time on September 30, a PRC LUYANG destroyer approached USS DECATUR in an unsafe and unprofessional maneuver in the vicinity of Gaven Reef in the South China Sea,” said Capt. Charlie Brown, a U.S. Pacific Fleet Spokesman. The Chinese Navy “destroyer conducted a series of increasingly aggressive maneuvers accompanied by warnings for DECATUR to depart the area,” Brown added.

“The PRC destroyer approached within 45 yards of Decatur’s bow, after which Decatur maneuvered to prevent a collision,” said Brown.

Decatur’s route passed near the artificial islands China has constructed in the South China Sea. The islands are not recognized by international law. In July 2016, the UN International Tribunal in the Netherlands ruled that China has no right of claim over the South China Sea and the artificial islands are illegal, however Chinese President Xi Jinping said that the country would not comply with the decision and the UN body has no right to meddle in Chinese affairs.

Decatur has previously crossed paths with Chinese destroyers in the South China Sea. Two years ago, a Luyang-class destroyer observed Decatur operating near Chinese holdings near Triton and Woody Islands in the Paracel Islands, which China calls Xisha. At the time, a Chinese Ministry of Defense release complained Decatur violated China’s sovereignty.

“US Forces operate in the Indo-Pacific region on a daily basis, including the South China Sea. As we have for decades, our forces will continue to fly, sail and operate anywhere international law allows. All operations are designed in accordance with international law and demonstrate that the United States will fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows. That is true in the South China Sea as in other places around the globe,” according to Christensen, referring to the most recent freedom of navigation operations.

At the same time, the Wasp Amphibious Ready Group (ARG) with embarked 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) is also operating in the South China Sea. The ARG/MEU recently completed a Defense of the Amphibious Task Force (DATF) drill at sea, including live firing crew-served weapons from USS Wasp (LHD-1).

“The DATF rehearsal demonstrated the full integration of Marine Corps and Navy capabilities showcasing the intensity of joint firepower available to defend Wasp, and our forces, in a wide range of combat situations,” Col. Robert Brodie, the commanding officer of the 31st MEU, said in a statement. “Our ironclad Blue-Green partnership allows us to continuously hone our lethality through training and exercises, in preparation for any operation.”

This all follows the flight of B-52 bombers above the South China Sea on September 25th. Beijing’s response was jet fighters and bombers from the Chinese military carried out live-fire exercises over the same area. Aircraft from the Southern Theater command of the People’s Liberation naval air force conducted “live fire shooting drills” at a sea range in the South China Sea, according to the People’s Daily official newspaper, which released photos from a broadcast by state-run CCTV.

All of these developments are part of sharp escalations that began with the US-initiated trade war with China and have now spilled in other areas of interest, such as strategical objectives. According to an unnamed US official, China has cancelled the annual diplomatic and security dialogue planned for mid-October. The reason was supposedly that there was no senior Chinese military official available to meet with US Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis.

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  • as

    They should call them the operation provocateurs.

    • Nexusfast123

      Operation Stupid

  • NWOD

    Whatever can be said about illegal US wars, the US, or anyone else, has every right to navigate in international waters. This is just a preview of China’s bullying and aggressiveness and the tyranny that will reign the world if China ever becomes a military superpower.

    If the US had any brains we would impose 500% tariffs on everything from China and reclaim our industrial base. Unfortunately the Bolsheviks that rule the US want to destroy the US and empower China. That is bad for the whole world.

    • Nexusfast123

      You’re an idiot. The US has no brains. The US has probably directly and indirectly killed 20m since the end of WW2. I’m happy to try China.

      • NWOD

        Ooh, ad hominem attacks, how sweet!

        About 20 m, let me take this number as true. But that whole time US was most powerful country on the planet. On the other hand, at the same time, very weak China has killed about 50 million – of its own people mainly.

        You can live under the Han Commie boot all you want – I never will. No matter what happens China will never invade US. But feel free to move there and live under Chinese rule, I don’t care even a little bit.

        • John

          Calm down there cowboy. Making your points with hysteria, does make you appear to be another idiot that rambles around the blogs. For example, you mentioned a fallacy but, turn around and used it yourself when you wanted. That is unconsciousness is full display.

          It’s China’s part of the world. The US lives a long way off. A bit of respect for the locals goes a long way. I bet Chinese warships will be coming a lot closer than 45 yards in the near future, if the game continues to be played by the US et al. My take.

          • NWOD

            You’re the hysterical insulter, your commie buddy is the ad hominem guy.

            No, it’s not China’s part of the world, it’s international waters. Period. The point where China is harassing US is, hmm – Spratly Islands – 1,200 km from China. The exclusive zone is 12 miles – 12 miles – let me repeat, 12 MILES, not 1,200 KILOMETERS.

            Nobody is respecting China’s aggressive attempt to take over the China Sea from all its neighbors. Too bad for you, commie boy.

          • as

            Guam, Hawaii, Gibraltar, Puerto Rico, Falkland, Canada etc

            There’s a lot of reference it could happen and there’s no reason they couldn’t do so. For the most part they only need to enforce them with force of arms.
            I agree these kinds of overreaching projection is empirical which make them not better than anglozionist but then again who could enforce equal prohibition to these practices ?

          • NWOD

            Guam, Hawaii, etc. are real islands. Nobody is disputing that real islands have an exclusion zone. The problem with Chinese sand piles is they are not islands, and an international court has ruled so, just in case there was any doubt. (And the complaint was brought by the Phillipines, not US.)

            Bottom line is what China is doing is illegal and US will not stop using international waters. Maybe one day when US is very weak and China is very strong it can impose its will and stop US from doing so – no doubt it will, because, as I said, if China ever becomes the world’s sole superpower, it will make the days of US rule seem like a true paradise.

          • as

            Oh have the international court ever ruled in favor od the China or Russia ? Or Indonesia perhaps ? Lol.
            And what you don’t know how large these ‘dunes’ is. You don’t know very much about them.

          • NWOD

            Actually I know more about them than you can ever know. I actually paid attention to the court case as it was going on. Stop projecting your ignorance.

          • as

            Yes and what the Philippines claim was ? China’s claim on them were as old as China as a state were.

          • NWOD

            I’m not summarizing a complex case, I have better things to do with my time – you can search the internet and find all the arguments, and laws, online. I haven’t read through his summary, but a scan shows it’s probably pretty decent, you can get a start at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute

          • as

            Look I’ve read them and i have also read the Chinese own version of them. The point is the international court will never in favor to their cases as was what already happened before in Taiwan. International court will never in favor of the west rivals.

          • NWOD

            That’s blatantly false. E.g. the UN has repeatedly ruled against Israel, and would have done more so but for the US repeated use of a veto.

            I have reviewed the applicable treaty myself and it is quite obvious that China is wrong both about the sand dunes and the islands that it may have once owned, some 5 centuries ago, but lost in the interim. We can’t all go back to borders from 500 years ago (except for Israel, and yes, that is a true crime against the Palestinians (which btw does not benefit US one bit, it’s actually a huge liability, but as I’ve said, US is ruled by Bolshevik traitors), I make no excuses for it, but that does not justify what China is doing either.)

            Enough for me, good night.

          • as

            Then were anything have been enforced against Israel ? No. Sanctions ? No. Military intervention ? No. How about kicking Israel out of the UN like what happened to Indonesia ? Again no. Well ?

          • Antikapitalista

            Well, at least the Chinese made the islands themselves, and peacefully at that, unlike the Murricans, who invaded Hawaii and looted Guam in a war started by them on false pretexts (like usual).

        • Barba_Papa

          A: I’d hardly call China still communist. It’s communist in name only. Economically its more capitalist then most capitalist countries.

          B: As long as China only kills its own people then I’m not worried for the future. So far China’s international record looks good. No constant wars, but trade seems to be China’s MO. Half of Africa is already learning Chinese because China is building up roads, schools, hospitals there and investing heavily in the continent.

          As for China throwing its weight around in the South China seas, its real estate next to it, its a major trading route essential to the Chinese economy, so it makes perfect sense for China to want to control it, just like it makes perfect sense for Russia to control what goes on next to its borders. And for why the US has been utterly dominating EVERYTHING that goes on in the America’s. After all, how many US military interventions have there been into Latin American countries?

          • NWOD

            Economically its more capitalist then most capitalist countries.” In some ways arguably, in other ways not (state sector is still massive). But politically it is good old Communist – totalitarian, no individual rights, dictatorship.

            As long as China only kills its own people then I’m not worried for the future.” Han are super-nationalistic. Hence they are much much much more willing to kill non-Han, than Han. The fact that they can kill 50 million Han, and still worship the man who did it (yes Mao is still worshipped like a God), means, once they have the power (which they didn’t have before), you will see they will kill 1 billion non-Han with no remorse whatsoever. People who kill 50 million of their own for, really, nothing, these are dangerous people. If Germany worshipped Hitler, who I would also submit was less murderous than Mao, and was gaining a lot of power, you might feel the way I do about China.

            it makes perfect sense for Russia to control what goes on next to its borders“. Not at all. It makes sense for China to be able to defend it, so that it can’t be excluded from there, but it is China trying to exclude the US from there. This means China wants also to be able to prevent other countries – US, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, etc. – from trading in that area. That of course makes sense to China, but America will not permit it. Sorry, Illegal. Immoral. Wrong. Unacceptable.

            After all, how many US military interventions have there been into Latin American countries?” Yes but China is able to ship through the Panama Canal without being harassed, and is able to do trade with South America without being harassed. Amazing, huh?

          • Barba_Papa

            >>Hence they are much much much more willing to kill non-Han, than Han. The fact that they can kill 50 million Han, and still worship the man who did it (yes Mao is still worshipped like a God), means, once they have the power (which they didn’t have before), you will see they will kill 1 billion non-Han with no remorse whatsoever. People who kill 50 million of their own for, really, nothing, these are dangerous people. If Germany worshipped Hitler, who I would also submit was less murderousthan Mao, and was gaining a lot of power, you might feel the way I do about China.<>Not at all. It makes sense for China to be able to defend it, so that it can’t be excluded from there, but it is China trying to exclude the US from there. This means China wants also to be able to prevent other countries – US, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, etc. – from trading in that area. That of course makes sense to China, but America will not permit it. Sorry, Illegal. Immoral. Wrong. Unacceptable.<> Yes but China is able to ship through the Panama Canal without being harassed, and is able to do trade with South America without being harassed. Amazing, huh?<<

            As you may have noticed the Panama Canal is no longer under US control, it's now Panamanian. And I can guarantee you pretty much that if China were to sign a deal with Panama, or most other Latin American countries to set up a military base there Washington would go apeshit. The list of US military interventions goes back way into the 19th century and includes more then just Panama and Grenada. The US basically overturned and meddled with any Latin American democracy that it disliked, and the most brutal military juntas were supported, trained and outfitted by the US, as long as they did its bidding.

            As a general rule of thumb, ANYTHING the US, or the West in general, accuses others of doing, it itself has done ten times worse. Or is even doing it still today. So color me unimpressed with your arguments.

          • NWOD

            Trying to control its international shipping routes is perfectly normal behavior for a major power. The British did, Brittannia rules the waves, the US does it, why is China suddenly the bad guy?

            You must have misread what I typed. Controlling the sea is one thing, harassing other nations’ ships in peacetime – i.e. trying to establish an exclusive zone in international waters – is completely different. If you can’t recognize that distinction, it’s pointless for us to continue discussing anything as we live in two entirely different worlds.

            Just look at how much of a personal insult the US has taken at Cuba going communist and the USSR having a base there. They were willing to plunge the world intoWW3 over it.

            lol, “having a base there”. You mean placing lots of nuclear weapons there. Are you intentionally being disingenuous?

            As you may have noticed the Panama Canal is no longer under US control, it’s now Panamanian.

            Yes, US gave it back. My point was, US allows China to navigate in international waters wherever it wants, in response to someone (you) claiming China is doing nothing different from what US does. Are you again being intentionally disingenuous, or what is your point?

            And I can guarantee you pretty much that if China were to sign a deal with Panama, or most other Latin American countries to set up a military base there Washington would go apeshit.

            So now you are speculating? No doubt it would oppose the move, but the question here is, would it harass the ships heading there, assuming the host country welcomed the base? I doubt it very much, but we’re both speculating, Let’s stick to facts, shall we?

            So color me unimpressed with your arguments.

            I don’t care any more than I would care if a goldfish was unimpressed with my arguments :).

          • Barba_Papa

            >>You must have misread what I typed. Controlling the sea is one thing, harassing other nations’ ships in peacetime – i.e. trying to establish an exclusive zone in international waters – is completely different. If you can’t recognize that distinction, it’s pointless for us to continue discussing anything as we live in two entirely different worlds.<>lol, “having a base there”. You mean placing lots of nuclear weapons there. Are you intentionally being disingenuous?<>Yes, US gave it back. My point was, US allows China to navigate in international waters wherever it wants, in response to someone (you) claiming China is doing nothing different from what US does. Are you again being intentionally disingenuous, or what is your point?<>So now you are speculating? No doubt it would oppose the move, but the question here is, would it harass the ships heading there, assuming the host country welcomed the base? I doubt it very much, but we’re both speculating, Let’s stick to facts, shall we?<>I don’t care any more than I would care if a goldfish was unimpressed with my arguments :).<<

            Finally something we can both agree upon.

          • NWOD

            Well, suffice to say I disagree with most everything you wrote. But won’t waste time rsponding. Happy goldfishing! :)

          • as

            The harassment happened to Military ships not civilian ship. They happen to be on “freedom of navigation” operations in the shipping line so tell me why these freedom of navigation operations can’t be considered as harassment to the ship using the shipping line ?

          • NWOD

            What harassment? They don’t interfere with any shipping. Freedom of navigation is just saying, “I have the right to be here”. That’s it, the only harrassment is coming from Communist China.

          • as

            They are there in the international shipping line a full operations (and military) they did in waters that heavily used by China ships and their relationship weren’t very nice. They could claim it was harassment and they would have the right to ensure that these harassment go away. Simple.

          • NWOD

            Those waters are heavily used by lots of ships, including US commerical ships.

            Not sure why I’m arguing with you, your point is asinine. Even if 99% of the ships there were Chinese – which they clearly are not – that doesn’t mean China can block any other ships from there. Plus the South China Sea is huge, and there’s not just one shipping lane. And the shipping lanes in the ocean are many and extremely wide.

            And if US navy ships were in fact harassing China merchant ships, you would have a point. But they’re not, so pardon me if I don’t spend more time on this thread :).

          • as

            China can block belligerent military ships. They can block military ships.

          • NWOD

            Then US will sink them. That’s fine by me.

          • as

            Look they started them first. “Freedom of navigation operations”
            No military ships should do that in the first place.

          • NWOD

            They absolutely should. It’s basically saying: you can’t claim international waters for yourself. Bravo. A proud moment in US history. Preventing China from bullying all of its neighbors and trying to grab international water.

            Yes, it would be great if US also kicked Israel’s arse, but as I said, US is ruled by Bolsheviks, and I have more negative than positive things to say about US foreign policy. This is a fairly unusual case where I completely agree with it.

          • as

            And how that’s not provocation ? And what’s their goal ? They’re not party in the disputes. Philippines should do that US don’t have the right to do that.

          • FlorianGeyer

            ” Trying to control its international shipping routes is perfectly normal behavior for a major power. ”

            As you obviously know barba , the Dutch Navy once rivalled and surpassed that of England and in practical terms this was all due to the use of Dutch financial wealth that utilised the windmills as power for sawing planks of wood for shipbuilding at a rate the English hand cutting could not match :)

            England even had a Dutch King for a while during the Reign of William and Mary .

          • Barba_Papa

            Imagine how much better you’d be off if he had founded a new dynasty that still ruled today? ;-) The dude was the Winston Churchill of his time, the last person to successfully invade England and the last English monarch to lead his army personally into battle.

            By the way, the current Dutch royal dynasty, despite calling themselves House of Orange, is not related to him. The main branch died out with William.

          • FlorianGeyer

            Winston Churchill was undoubtedly a man of his time but he was also a rather vain character with a drink problem. He was shocked after the first post war elections when he lost to the Labour Party.

          • Barba_Papa

            Some people are only really at their best at certain conditions. To be kept behind glass labeled ‘break glass in case of emergency only’.

            But the French and German invasion of the Netherlands in 1672, coupled with having to defend against the combined French and English fleets was the Dutch equivalent of the UK’s ‘Finest Hour’. As we managed to survive and come out on top. Although oddly enough its never seen as such in Dutch historic writing. It went into the history books as the year of disaster instead. Of course, while Churchill had many failings, the man knew how to spin things to his advantage. It also helped that he wrote his own history books. So Britain’s year of disaster, 1940, became the finest hour instead.

          • FlorianGeyer

            Was the French/German invasion after the Spanish rule of the Netherlands Barba ?

          • Barba_Papa

            Spanish rule officially ended in 1648, but the Dutch war of secession started 80 years earlier, and Spain lost control of most of the current day Netherlands early in that war. And there were at least two wars with England after that war before the French invasion of 1672.

          • FlorianGeyer

            Thanks for that. I was unaware that the war of secession began so many years before the end of Spanish Rule.

          • Jo Kang

            Same old canard…”China only kills its own people”. Where did I hear that before? Oh right, with Stalin, Saddam, Assad, etc. Funny how Westerners use the same fake pretext for aggression and regime change. Mao did not deliberately kill his own people. They died from famine. There is a difference. While Western imperialist intervention has killed millions of civilians from conventional, nuclear and biological warfare. So contrary to US propaganda, the US is not the Good Sheriff.

          • NWOD

            They died from famine. There is a difference.

            No, there isn’t, first, as it was an engineered famine (which engineering was enforced with violence and force and as well was utterly idiotic), and second, that’s hardly the only or major cause of death.

            Same old canard.

            Oh, so your argument is, let me make sure it’s right: there have been some cases of false allegation, and therefor, all allegations are false. Got it. You must have gotten an A+ in logic.

    • Hisham Saber

      Get rid of your Bolsheviks (Jews) then. No civilization that has emancipated them and given them power lived very long. Its been going on since before Babylon.

      • Antikapitalista

        It is actually no Bolsheviks, it is just that NWOD abuses an obscure term whose meaning he fails to understand.

        • Hisham Saber

          Exactly, thank you.

    • Antikapitalista

      LOL…! if China does not sell its products to the United States of Aggression for nothing but worthless U.S. bonds, China can as well give them out to China’s own citizens.

      But what will the Murricans do? They will probably die of starvation—I mean, the rest that does not get shot by their irate gun-toting fellow citizens…

      The trade balance says it all…

      The Murricans are so filthy rich only because they exploit the poor Chinese, who are able to produce things that the Murricans are unable to produce, such as items of everyday need.

      The Chinese can produce them at the fraction of the cost at which the Murricans could produce them.

      If the Murricans produced them, the Murricans would not be able to buy them.
      All the more because now the Chinese are exploited by Murrican corporations, which reap huge profits at the expense of the Chinese and distribute these profits to the Murricans.
      In other words: the Murricans buy Chinese goods with money stolen from them.
      It this “trade” stops, the Murricans will have no money and no goods…

  • In Russia during Cold War ships were specially reinforced to be able ram US “partners” (they didn’t called them so by the way :)
    Chinese now have similar reinforced vessels as they regularly ram into rude Vietnamese and other US lapdog nations in South China sea.
    So it is not surprising me that Chinese chase away US Arleigh-Burke class destroyer, which nearly sunk after being “containered” by civilian merchant ships last year.
    America has quite soft Navy and once rammed, their ships are nearly unrepairable.

    • NWOD

      lol, keep dreaming buddy.

    • FlorianGeyer

      Thanks for that information.

  • John

    What did they expect?

    • NWOD

      I know, crazy, huh, to expect China to comply with international law? Heck once they are done claiming the whole China Sea they can claim the whole Pacific Ocean, then the whole Indian Ocean, I mean, why stop at one Sea? Once you scuttle the rules, the sky’s the limit!

      • John

        I already replied to you.

        • NWOD

          OK, and I replied to that. But good for at least not including multiple insults/ad hominem attacks in this post. Looks like you can do that after all.

          • John

            baloney.

      • Ilya Grushevskiy

        Unpopulated territories can be bought, swapped, whatever. The Chinese may be pushing their luck here, but it’s no Hawaii. They will agree with the border nations on a fair deal given enough time and space. Them being in charge of the strait will be beneficial to world trade and security. Just a matter for the bordering nations to acquiesce.

      • Hisham Saber

        I hear your arguments, but I would rather be ruled by the Chinese than Talmudic Rabbinical Jews, who rule the U.S., any day. The Chinese talk ‘ win-win ‘ for everyone, the U.S. threatens coups, makes demands and forces countries to prop up the dollar. All at the end of a real military threat. No one, in fact the whole world, is tired of the U.S. bullishness.

        • NWOD

          No one, in fact the whole world, is tired of the U.S. bullishness.

          It’s actually possible to oppose evil generally – you don’t have to pick the lesser evil.

          In other words, there’s no need to be partisan – it is possible to be principled. You can oppose the US’ illegal war on Libya, while simultaneously opposing China’s illegal harassment of the US destroyer.

          • Ronald

            “It’s possible to oppose evil generally” that is well spoken, however for the US to use force in its “Might is Right” by antagonizing China’s nautical territorial claims, is childish and small minded. This is not the way to win a trade dispute.

      • John

        You don’t follow events very much do you.

        There were a lot of guys like you backing the head choppers in Syria and Iraq not long ago. they crawled back into their little holes and we don’t hear much from them anymore. You are headed for the same ate, because you don’t pay attention enough.

        I have nothing more to say to you. It is a waste of time. Nothing you laid offers anything worthwhile for me to reflect upon. Besides, you are miles and miles behind the curve. My take on you. That goes double or Zo Fu.

        • NWOD

          You don’t follow events very much do you.

          Actually I do. Ad hominem number 1.

          There were a lot of guys like you backing the head choppers in Syria and Iraq not long ago.

          Actually I didn’t. Ad hominem number 2, defamation number 1.

          They crawled back into their little holes and we don’t hear much from them anymore. You are headed for the same fate, because you don’t pay attention enough.

          Threat no. 1.

          I have nothing more to say to you.It is a waste of time. Nothing you laid out offers anything worthwhile for me to reflect upon. Besides, you are miles and miles behind the curve. My take on you. That goes double or Zo Fu.

          Ad hominum number 3.

          So you are obviously a “person” (troll) who does nothing but insult, defame and make ad hominem attacks. I will now blissfullly block you. Here’s hoping for the remote possiblity you might learn about civil discourse, debate, and respect.

          • John

            pfffffffft ………. baloney

          • Antikapitalista

            Actually, if you think that nobody can see through your self-serving self-righteous bullshit tirades, then let it hereby be known to you that you are gravely mistaken.

            The original question was what the Murricans had expected. You know how the Murricans behave, e.g. in Syria, do you, with complete disregard for international law, or have you been in coma for the past 4 years?

            Thus, what he remarked was perfectly spot-on and one only has to wonder what caused your spectacular failure to understand it—was it plain stupidity, or perhaps something worse? (Shaving it with Hanlon’s razor, I benignly assume that it was because of stupidity, not malice.)

            China just showed them a bit of “very Murrican” behaviour. Thus seeing and hearing the Murricans fuming with exasperation at such behaviour… is just mind-numbingly ridiculous.

            It is just as fucking ridiculous as your invoking “civil discourse, debate, and respect” after you wrote this:
            “You are an utterly despicable loser, who never has anything of value to say, ever, just insulting. I feel sorry for how stupid you are.”
            and this:
            “Oh, beauty, I remember, Disqus allows me to block your utterly pathetic efforts at bullying posts (bullies bully because, well, they are generally really stupid and cannot win any argument on its merits, so they scream like a spoiled petulant child, though in your case, you scream like a spoiled, petulant, sub-amoeba slime ball). And now blocked you are!”
            in response to really benign retorts, you went off like a shitbomb.

            Thus, it was no “ad hominem” attack. It was just that you had been trolling out of desperation, nothing more, nothing less.

          • NWOD

            I stand up to bullies. You won’t see me writing stuff like that first, but if a bully attacks me, sure, I fight them back, on the internet or in the street. Of course you take it upon yourself to blame the victim of bullying. Frankly, I don’t care, I will continue to fight cyberbullying.

            The self-righteousness is all your’s.

      • Antikapitalista

        So what??!

        The United States of Aggression claimed almost all of the Americas almost 2 centuries ago.

        Now China merely follows the U.S. precedent.

  • Well, if China is aggressive by protecting South China Sea, it would be nice to see America and their reaction if Chinese decided protect freedom of navigation near Los Angeles and Long Island/New York Harbour .
    They have just 2 carriers groups able to do it, what a coincidence :D

    • NWOD

      I hope China does this, I agree with you, it is nice for America to swallow its own medicine. But you may have seen, Russia is now flying many sorties along the US and various EU coasts, but they tend to keep their distance.

      I do think US has every right to sail its ships there, but I don’t see the point in doing it every week. Once in a while on regular patrols is enough, and if the Chinese ship gets in the way, who cares, go around it and if it gets in the way again and you might hit it, sink it. It’s very simple really.

      • USA is so deluded, selfish, “indispensable” and “exceptional” nation, that they can’t even imagine that Chinese and Russian have the same rights. For example to be left alone and live in peace in their own space and just do their business without US supervision.
        Not mentioning that US NAVY is inferior and obsolete to “project power” in heavily militarized South China sea.

        • NWOD

          These “islands” (artificial reefs) are 1,200 KM from China. It is not China’s space, it is international waters, and US will sail there whenever it wants. China can also sail 1,200 km off the US coast whenever it wants. That’s called international law. Sorry you hate it so much, but, too bad.

          • Well, it is 70 years after WW2 ended and US occupying army is still present in Japan , Germany, they have illegal nuclear bases on all places in the world and they can’t tolerate few Chinese sand rifts ? Oh c’mon man.

          • NWOD

            I don’t like US being in Germany and Japan, but, neither country has ever asked US to leave. In fact most Germans and Japanese (here I mean all Japanese, I know the people of Okinawa may have a majority against), rightly or wrongly, prefer the US to remain.

            Illegal nuclear bases” – what makes them illegal?

            they can tolerate few sand rifts“. Now you are being disingenuous. US is tolerating the “sand rifts”. US stayed 12 miles away, but China came and harassed them anyway. It’s not like US came with ships to remove the sand China placed there. So I think you are not looking at this objectively but hate the US so are against everything it does, even though, in this case, US is on the correct side, and China is clearly wrong. That is the problem with partisanship, it blinds one to truth.

          • as

            They’re non declared base and non declared nuclear storage outside their territory.

          • NWOD

            Please cite the law that makes it illegal for the US to house nuclear weapons outside of the US (is it outside the US generally – i.e., is it also “illegal” on submarines, ships and aircraft – or only in other countries?). I’d like to analyze your claim but am not finding the law you claim is being violated.

          • as

            Lol my links on US state of department sites were bust.
            You can look into their archives perhaps. It’s on the US state of department sites.

          • NWOD

            Oh, now I should research your blatantly false claims? That’s rich, lol.

          • as

            Not false claim. But well if you want to research on the nuclear treaty laws it prohibited their placement outside their territory, in control of other country, in the seabeds, and in the orbital space. Treaty that was made with USSR.
            You’re not quite interested with international laws.

          • NWOD

            You claimed it was “illegal”, breaking a treaty is not “illegal”, it is merely in violation of the treaty. I know about the treaty regarding space-based weapons but have never heard about outside one’s territory, even though both US and USSR did that (and US does now).

            According to this Sputnik article – https://sputniknews.com/military/201509261027562273/ – it supposedly violates the NPT, available at https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/publications/documents/infcircs/1970/infcirc140.pdf . Article I of the NPT prohibits a nuclear weapons state from “transfering to any recipient whatsoever nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly”. But this is different from placing the weapons outside the state’s territory. In the US case, they place them on their own bases and they remain under US control at all times. By analogy, if I have a gun on my person, and I visit your house, I have not thereby transferred the gun to you.

          • as

            It is illegal as they’re breaking them without withdrawing from them thus making the pledge binding for both US and Russia. Cheating in short. Your analogy doesn’t even make it close with the topics at hand.
            Imagine if the Chinese or Russia placing their Nuclear at Venezuela or Cuba. Duplicity much ?
            I’d say stop stepping over the red line if you’re telling others not to steps over the redline.

          • as

            You’re clearly not interested in finding out how much illegal action the US had done nor how much damage it has done and still continued to make. Your concerns would be illegal aliens, jobs, and military adventurism that cost money and american lives right ?

            Listen well. The US is done. Twenty Trillions in debt and no way to paying them off either by selling it’s assets holds by international corporation and banks/money changers. It was flooded with illegals that would be impossible to expelled without seriously deteriorate their public security. It has fragmented society with wide gaps in economic stature. They have make too many enemies abroad. It’s political system and norms/culture have steadily filling the topmost position with incompetent and non intellectual persons and the public interest towards the process as well dropping.

            There are no possible way out for you and the rest of the American to fold the empire without having to lower your heads like what happened to Russians citizens after USSR breakup other than double down and starting WW3 involving nuclear exchange.

            You’re most likely would rather have ww3 rather than lowering your heads and accepted hardship enforced by corrupt government you never like regardless how many undeserved victims that decision would have.

            That was the most unfortunate for the rest of us that have endured the US tyrannical action , that the US have been filled with pompous fascistic citizens that see third world citizens like others as expendables.

          • Antikapitalista

            But the United States of Aggression goes much further than that, the United States of Aggression violates the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons; more specifically, its Article 1:

            “Each nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to transfer to any recipient whatsoever nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly; and not in any way to assist, encourage, or induce any non-nuclear-weapon State to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices, or control over such weapons or explosive devices.”

          • Hisham Saber

            Interesting that you are now standing up to international law, when the U.S. allows its closest ally make a mockery out of international law at the U.N. with its veto power in favor of shielding blatant violations of international laws Israel breaks, and continues to break every day. What is it? 70 U.N. Resolutions Israel is in blatant, direct violation of? Last one being Resolution 2334.

          • NWOD

            Interesting that you are now standing up to international law, when the
            U.S. allows its closest ally make a mockery out of international law at
            the U.N.

            There is a fundamental logic flaw there. You are saying I suppot international law, but US does not always do so. So what does that have to do with my point? Is the point that if someone breaks the law, then we should ignore everyone else breaking the law? Because, well, since someone is always breaking the law, we might as well throw the lawbook out of the window and live in complete lawless anarchy. Is that what you are suggesting, or what are you suggesting?

            Anyway, if, before trotting out this straw man, you had taken a few minutes to review my posting history (which is publicly available on Disqus), you would see that I am extremely critical of Israel’s violations of international law and US support of it. But instead of educating yourself with minimal effort, you prefer to make false and unfounded accusations. Unfortunately, that is the level of “discourse” in the world today, God help us all.

          • as

            The point is you’re being hypocrite by pointing fingers while your own country did the same.
            Did you ever stop international law breaking of your own country ? Ever persecuted Bush ? Or latest Trump ? No. Again no. If it’s anachy then so be it. Until there’s status quo reached that can punish and make each of them accountable I’d say go ahead US hegemony should be challenged everywhere.

          • NWOD

            The point is you’re being hypocrite by pointing fingers while your own country did the same.

            This is a perfect post of how irrational people are.

            I condemn US violations of law as well as Chinese violations of law. You say that makes me a hypocrite.

            On the other hand, you condemn US violations of law, but cheer on Chinese violations of law. That makes you – well, you didn’t say expressly, but by inference, consistent.

            This is why the world will never have peace. Vast majority of humans just are utterly irrational.

          • as

            I cheer whenever there’s challenge to the US behavior that do make their duplicity in full views. I already noted that west country could have Gibraltar, Guam, Hawaii, Falkland, etc.
            Your country still the biggest international law violators do something about it first before you’re talking about other country.

          • NWOD

            Yes, you are a disingenuous hypocrite, a scoundrel, a loser. I know. Most of the world is like you, which is why humanity will destroy itself. When you critique the US, look in the mirror, you are even worse than US (though weak and powerless – imagine if you had the power of the US, the injustices and crimes you would commit!)

          • as

            What scoundrel ? What loser ? And you see the world that way ? The US need to start to learn humility. I’d say when everyone can be held responsible for their action you’ll finally can have peace on earth. None can held the Israel for their genocide because the US. And none can held the US accountable because they’re eager to start nuclear war. Imagine how crazy the world the US see ? War waged overseas couldn’t possible hurt them in anyway ? There’s no need a declarations of war ? Civilians as collateral damage is a norm ? And they have the guts to weep and calls the terrorist cowards ? Their civilians too died because they’re simply vulnerable just as how their target civilians is.

            And no i wouldn’t be so busy being so paranoid and scared of every kind of advance other makes. The US want to be on top by knocking everyone feet down. They don’t welcome the fair competition that can result from other advance. Even now they’re busy calling the H1b visas for ‘stealing their jobs’ because they can’t committed as harder as the ‘dindus’.

            Did you know that China too have nuclear weapons ? How do you like starting a war over south china sea that did not within immediate need of the Americans whatsoever ?

            Learn humility. I too preferred the US to stop and rollback their empirical overreach peacefully and return to normalcy but here you go we’re still having ‘you’ eager to start a war with China over their immediate interest not immediately in conflict with the US interest.

          • NWOD

            Your hypocrisy is evident for anyone who can think clearly.

            Everyone needs to learn humility. China treats its own people like garbage. Now they are going around destroying crosses on Churches because the dictatorship wants to force its people to think the way Xi wants them to think. Yes US has committed crimes, and I am quite aware of them but here’s the rub: what country, who would have the power that the US has, would not commit them? This is my point about China. Although China is weak, it does not recognize anyone’s human rights, not even those of it’s own citizens. Do you think they will then recognize the rights of Africans (and if you know China you know Chinese think Africans are lower than monkeys – and you can see how Chinese treat monkeys, and other animals, in China).

            The fact is when China gains power in the world you will look back on the days of US rule – bad as it is – as a time of great peace and tranquility. China killed tens of millions of its own people just because Mao had an “idea’ and with great violence forced everyone in China to conform to his crazy, asinine idea, called the “Cultural Revolution”, and tens of millions died. He did not care. Now what if he had ruled the world and imposed his crazy idea on everyone? All criminals are limited in their crimes by their power to commit them.

            Civilians as collateral damage is a norm?” And who does not do this? Do you think when Syria, Turkey or Russia fights wars, there is no civilian damage? Putin, in Chechnya, killed one-third – ONE-THIRD!!!! – of the entire people! Is this your hero of “peace” and respect? Again, what your poor analysis fails to consider is that the more powerful a person/ruler/country becomes, the more crimes they will commit. I oppose US crimes, but I also know that, most countries, if they had the power of the US, would commit far greater ones. And I for sure know that China would.

            They don’t welcome the fair competition that can result from other advance” Your claim does not pass the laugh test. Without US’ great help, Chinese would be still living in poverty raising rice. China is rich and powerful because US shared its technology, capital and wealth, lifting them out of the gutter. Again, like all Chinese, you cannot appreciate it; instead, you have only hate. This is also a standard feature of Chinese commentators, they are so full of hate.

            ‘you’ eager to start a war with China” Your utter nonsense never stops. I don’t want war with China or anyone. However, China is not going to bully the US, Japan or anyone else in the China Sea. It belongs to the whole world. And yes, this sea is also very important to the US – a lot of US trade flows through this sea as well. You are just a nationalistic Chinese, I know your type. You are full of hypocrisy, you care about nothing but China dominating the world. You care nothing about law, and your attacks against US are not based on any principle, because Communists have no principle. It’s all about power and having China act unlawfully and oppress its neighbors and eventually the world. I am happy the US is not letting China get away with it, I support US 100% in this! The waters of the world belong to everyone! F* China for trying to steal the China Sea from the world. It will not succeed!

    • Ivan Freely

      The Chinese will be sending a carrier battle groups to the Caribbean in the future, post 2035. This I guarantee it.

  • Henk Poell

    An artificial island, or some island recently popping up above sea level should be treated as “ship”, not as land owned by whoever grabbed it first, with mining/fishing/navigation rights in a radius around it. No way! Certainly not if it is close to other countries.

    Ignoring the claim is the right thing to do here by the USA, giving an example for other nations over there. The fact that a country’s foreign policies in one part of the world are misguided (like in Syria) doesn’t automatically mean they are wrong everywhere on planet earth.

    • Ok, so japan will be basically treated as a ship because they are building artificial islands for some 500 years.

      • Henk Poell

        Didn’t know of any nation building artificial islands centuries ago… But indeed Zo Fu, if they are far away from the coast and closer to other countries they should be treated as ships. Building them close to Japan shouldn’t change anything.

    • Jo Kang

      Laws only apply to non-aligned countries like China, while US can pick and choose to violate them at will like in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia…Hmmm funny how that works. And the “law” which you and the US is referencing is the UN Law of the Sea, which the US is not a signatory. LOL. China is negotiating the South China Seas claims with neighboring ASEAN countries. Yet, the US is hyping it to death purely for geopolitical reasons and brainwashed Westerners repeat the nonsense. All this fake outrage, you’d think China actually invaded an inhabited island and kicked out the locals. Wait, the US did that with Diego Garcia! LOL Do the region a favor and leave the SCS to the Asians to resolve without Western intervention to stir up the pot to spark a war.

      • Henk Poell

        I guess you have a point there… Indeed, why would a country so far away like the US be to concern itself with it? Actually, why limit this to Asian/non-Asian, shall we just agree that the Phillipines, the country closest to those new islands, should make the decision here?

        • Jo Kang

          Which part of negotiating with ASEAN countries did you not understand?

          • Henk Poell

            I do understand you perfectly, Jo. But the oceans support passage rights for everyone for a long time. Limiting these rights in parts of the ocean is not an ASEAN thing but rather a UN thing.

            But hey, I’m a generous person, so I’m going with your idea of keeping the USA out of the discussion because they are 10000 kilometers away from the disputed ‘islands’. Taking it even one step further: why not have just the Philippines decide the future of these islands? I find your idea of limiting the discussion to nations that are less than 2000 kilometers or so (ASEAN) rather arbitrary. Why not 60km? Or 544km? Or 100km? Because you happen to be Chineese and you want to see your country expand and expand?

  • Robert McMaster

    The Chinese are complete wimps. The U.S. knows it. The Americans will parade around all they like and the Chinese will yap on and on and do nothing.

    • FlorianGeyer

      Unlike the USA, China dose not think ‘the gun’ is an answer to all problems.

      But then China is a venerable and wise nation and Chinese civilisation has a history of circa 5000 years. This civilisation has seen many periods of good , indifferent and bad times.

      • Robert McMaster

        No, you’re right and this is good. But with the U.S. don’t make it a habit.

  • This is not a discussion, this is onanism of some anti China deluded idiots.
    Well folks, it is not about “rights” or “projecting power”, it is about economy.
    Many many many years ago America produced machinery, parts,
    high tech goods with high added value and transported it to whole the world.
    But stupid lazy American decided transfer jobs to China ,
    stop doing anything except debts and start to import everything.
    Now Chinese have jobs, money, high tech and don’t need dollars.
    So what ? They are many, they are dependent on their ports and exports so they decided to protect them as they grown up to the biggest ports in the world and 1/3 of the whole world trade goes through them.
    And suddenly America woke up and started this bat shit crazy idea about “freedom” of navigation.
    Translate: they claim the right to control Chinese ports, Chinese industry and US way of living (doing nothing except printing fake money forever) and Chinese – guess what – don’t like it.
    So idiot Trump Dotart the Great started economy war and this war is coming (surprise, surprise) hot in South China Sea. But as you can see – Chinese are the good ones and USA are the bad ones.
    Lazy, stupid, indebted morons.
    I don’t say Chinese are perfect, but it is their backyard so US screaming about “freedom” of navigation sucks.

    • NWOD

      But stupid lazy American decided transfer jobs to China , stop doing anything except debts and start to import everything.

      That’s not at all what happened. American workers were fighting all they could against job transfers. But the Bolshevik rulers of the US moved the jobs to China anyway. American rulers and American people are two very different things.

      And suddenly America woke up and started this bat shit crazy idea about “freedom” of navigation.

      Again, you have no idea of history. This has been an important issue for many centures. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_navigation . And there’s nothing crazy about it – what’s crazy is China’s efforts to claim ownership of international waters. It’s illegal and it won’t happen, no matter how much you repeat your nonsense.

      Translate: they claim the right to control Chinese ports, Chinese industry and US way of living

      That’s ridiculous. China can protect its maritime trade, ports and industry without harassing US ships in international waters in peacetime. They are two entirely different concepts. In fact it’s not clear at all how harassing US ships 1,200 KM from the Chinese coast protects its ports. Maybe if they harass US ships in the Gulf of Mexico they will also protect Chinese ports? lol

      printing fake money

      If it’s so fake, why do the currency manipulators in China peg their currency to the dollar? Why is it the international reserve currency? Why does everybody in the world, including Chinese, want dollars? You see, you write such stupid things one after another … ughh, you are too deluded to debate with, OK, bye.

      • Hahaha. What did America after WW2 ? How many wars they started? 30 ? 40 ?
        Now they are in war with Russia, with China, with Europe, with South America, with Arab countries, with North Korea actually is there any country in the world which is not in some kind of war with America ?
        And what did Chinese after WW2? Did they started any war ?. No. ( I know I know, Tibet and Russia and India see’s it a bit different but anyway).
        And what are doing Chinese now ? One Belt One Road project.
        Chinese want invest their huge surplus and trade and make money.
        USA want to steal the results of Chinese economy and make them pay for “US protection”. Gangsters.

        • NWOD

          Now they are in war with Russia, with China, with Europe, with South America, with Arab countries.

          Well if you want to include any dispute as a “war”, I guess so, but rest assured, China, although much weaker, also has very many disputes – let’s see, India, Vietnam, Phillipines, Thailand, etc., etc. I think if China were as powerful as the US the world would be a vastly worse place, but, I know you love your motherland and that’s OK too.

          And what did Chinese after WW2? Did they started any war ?

          Sure, Tibet, Burma, Vietnam (twice), N. Korea, Xianjing, India (twice), Soviet Union. One can argue about who started what but there’s no shortages of war.

          USA want to steal the results of Chinese economy and make them pay for “US protection”.

          If it weren’t for the US you Chinese would still be picking rice and living in abject poverty. No appreciation whatsoever. Ingrates.

          I think US should impose a 500% tariff on Chinese goods. There is no need for the two countries to trade. Chinese, like you, just hate the US, despite the fact that mainly because of US has China become prosperous. But it doesn’t matter, in any case, we should go our separate ways, our cultures are completely incompatible.

          • as

            Your economic system that have put you into these ‘Bolshevik’ nightmares.
            Within them they allowed corporation to make unlimited profit and keeping them allowing the kinds of highest degree of monopolies within their exclusive circle buying both politicians, scientists/experts and the goons they needed to ensure the practice can be keep on going.
            Secondly your economic system have given up it’s control over the currencies handing them over to the banks allowing them to ‘print’ money that of course eventually devalued their worth.

            China at least have the right idea of ensuring that corporation would profit for the country not the other way around putting them in state control albeit with loss on time in their development.

          • NWOD

            I totally agree that China does some things better than US.

            Indeed, China would never transfer its capital, factories, know-how and technology to a hostile country that would be even remotely as ingrateful as China is to the US.

            Sadily, it is true that American rulers completely sold out Americans. The downside to an “open system” is that hostile forces can conquer it without firing a shot – money is enough to do it, particularly when wisely spent.

            But it is also true that Chinese rulers will do the same to China. As weak, politically, as the American people are, the Chinese people are much much weaker. Right now China is focusing on growing its industry and military. It will soon reach the point where it will look outwards for more opportunities (Belt and Road is the economic front but there will also be a military front, mark my words). That’s when the true China will emerge.

          • as

            At least they’re bad liars.

          • Ronald

            @ NWOD ; At this, your agreeable moment in time , I would wish to add to your generous thoughts.
            You correctly point out China’s windfall of America’s, “Corporate Citizens” transference of capitol to create less expensive manufacturing facilities and the technologies that went with that. Preceding this were two key items.
            # 1 China moved from communist central control to a market controlled economy
            # 2 China’ implemented its “one child policy”, that kept the population at a stable level for twenty five years, and promoted higher levels of education.
            # 3 in order of magnitude is the unexpected “gift” from America, the capitol, tech and manufacturing transfers.
            The result of these three concurrent factors created a massive economic win for China. It now has more millionaires and billionaires than all of north America and Europe combined.
            Belt and Road is China’s traditional capitalistic style, if you look at Chinese history, their “Rule” was generally economic, only direct neighbors faced their military.
            “As ingrateful as China is to the US”.
            After 200 years of very poor government, China has sprung back on its feet. The South China Sea is its front yard, what’s to be surprised at it declaring it to be under its protection.

          • NWOD

            The South China Sea is its front yard,

            Funny, it’s the “front yard” of a number of countries, all of whom are extremely happy the US is not bowing to Chinese bullying and criminality.

            China moved from communist central control to a market controlled economy

            That’s hugely debatable. For one, the state sector is still a major part of the economy. For two, the State still exercises huge control over these “private enterprises”, and could nationalize them at any second. It’s really just a variation on the state capitalism of the USSR – which, despite having state capitalism, was still considered Communist.

            Sure, it’s legions away from Mark’s communism, but so was Mao – even further, really. Don’t fall into the silly trap of assuming a word has only one meaning. That’s so gay! :)

          • Ronald

            China and its neighbors will naturally go through the ICJ, and establish agreements concerning off shore mineral rights and boundaries.
            But if the US think anyone but China will rule the South China Sea, they are only fooling themselves. There is no need for this childish behavior.

            You seemed to have missed that, in just 25 years of market economy, China now has more millionaires and billionaires than All of north America and Europe combined.

            State control is reduced to the critical industries, military and energy.
            The rest of the economy is not “state capitalism” as practiced by the communists of Russia or China. Naturally there are laws regulating commerce.

            Your crystal ball seems to have a negative predisposition towards our future.

            Your knowledge that “the true China will emerge”, as it is an “Open System”, and that hostile forces could take over it……As Has Happened To America.

            Your not alone, We the People of the World are also saddened.
            Let us build up our energies toward a better future for all.

        • Promitheas Apollonious

          americans been at war since their creation as a colony from the zionists, running Uk. Dont make difficult questions to the kid or you block the only cell working between his ears.

          • NWOD

            As always, you are a total whackjob. You don’t even have one cell working, more like sub-amoeba slime.

          • as

            Debunk him you’re resorting to ad hominem attack you accuse people off.

          • NWOD

            Debunk his ad hominem attacks? lol. That’s all he does, he’s an idiot bully who thinks he can win an argument by insulting. I stand up to bullies, online and in the street. I’ll take that punk down with pleasure :).

          • as

            About how America has not been at war since their creation ?

          • NWOD

            Off topic and irrelevant.

          • as

            Well he’s right about them.

          • Promitheas Apollonious

            jerk off stop complimenting me judging by your own self. Read the posts you maker even a retard has more coherent and accurate thinking that you clone.

      • Promitheas Apollonious

        try to know what you talking about when posting and your counter argument is one a 2 year old TV brainwashed will do.

        • NWOD

          You are an utterly despicable loser, who never has anything of value to say, ever, just insulting. I feel sorry for how stupid you are.

          • Promitheas Apollonious

            are you looking your self in the mirror while you say this ?

          • NWOD

            Oh, beauty, I remember, Disqus allows me to block your utterly pathetic efforts at bullying posts (bullies bully because, well, they are generally really stupid and cannot win any argument on its merits, so they scream like a spoiled petulant child, though in your case, you scream like a spoiled, petulant, sub-amoeba slime ball). And now blocked you are!

          • FlorianGeyer

            That is why I will block you. :)

          • as

            He raised a good point although biased as usual.

      • Ricky Miller

        Baloney. I was there for the free trade debate, circa 1996-2000+, and it sounds like you missed it, sir. We were told that American workers were the best in the world. We were told that treaties would have added clauses that protected labor standards and the environment. We were lied to. And then, election 2000? We had the choice of Bill Bradley over Al Gore and chose…Gore. From the free trade establishment Democrats. At least Gore would have insisted on environmental standard additions but in the general election we chose…Free Trader in Chief George W. Bush. And that’s with a viable third party candidate in the race, Ralph Nader, a consumer advocate opposed to the free trade mania. The voters chose to outsource their jobs on the say so of political and economic elites who didn’t offshore to help China or anywhere else but in order to pay oversees workers less, and import more without paying tariffs. That’s right. Americans did this to other Americans in the name of greed.

        • NWOD

          Unlike (apparently) you, most voters are not single-issue voters. They did not vote for Bush because he believed in “free trade”. There is no democracy in the US, it’s a duopoly where oligarchs control both sides, with minor differences between them. Tons of people vote based on physical appearance, or who makes the best joke, sad as that is, but that’s humanity.

          I don’t remember anyone voting for Bush because he would move jobs to China. Not. One. Person. If you did, you hung around some unusual, and pathetic, people. So – baloney, right back at cha.

          By the way, when Bill Clinton signed NAFTA, Gore was VP. I don’t remember him saying anything about the completely anti-environmental provisions in NAFTA. Indeed they were utterly shameful, utterly, and Gore fully supported NAFTA. Go on beleiving in your fairy tale about “choice” in elections. Yawn.

          • Ricky Miller

            No. American voters are accountable for the choices we make. We refuse to elect even small third party numbers to Congress in order to balance out the two fake parties. In the end though we get the government and governance we deserve. As for the PLAN doing anything illegal to an American Destroyer that is just a laugh. The United States has not ratified the Law of the Sea and the ICJ ruling is based on it. The United States has no legal ground to stand on here. In fact, if the USA reclaimed a shoal or islet somewhere and Iran sailed a military vessel within the twelve mile limit we all know what would happen, so this is all just hypocrisy. The U.S. could sail around the twelve mile limit claimed by the occupation of these places but refuses to do so simply to stick an Uncle Sam thumb in China’s eye. The end effect? China has accelerated the construction and sea trials of an entire new class of super destroyers. Call it freedom of “navigation” blowback.

          • NWOD

            American voters are accountable for the choices we make.

            What choice? No matter who you vote for, the same oligarchs/Deep State wins. There is no choice. So you can argue Americans could rise up and overthrow the government – in that sense, it’s true, but in that sense, everyone is responsible for their government, and you can get rid of the distinction between killing soldiers and civilians and a host of other doctrines.

            we get the government and governance we deserve.

            Well you may as well expand that globally then, and say the world gets the government it deserves. So stop complaining about the US as “policeman” (world government), since the world deserves it.

            The United States has no legal ground to stand on here

            It’s not necessary to sign that treaty to know China can’t monopolize the ocean 800 miles from its border. At the end of the day international law doesn’t exist, and if China could push US out, it would, but it can’t, so it doesn’t. Like I have written many times, you will rue the day China becomes a superpower. Whatever flaws US has, China is vastly worse.

            if the USA reclaimed a shoal or islet somewhere and Iran sailed a
            military vessel within the twelve mile limit we all know what would
            happen

            My crystal ball isn’t as advanced as yours, please, do predict the future for us all. What we do know is that Russia flys missions along the US coast, and so far, US has not harrassed them. What evidence do you have that the US has blatantly interfered with sea or air traffic in international space? Oh, right, the “US is evil so it must be true” evidence. lol. Sad.

            U.S. could sail around the twelve mile limit claimed by the occupation of these places

            More to the point, China could not illegally harrass US ships while sailing in international waters. But it’s always US’ fault and China is an angel. Okie dokey.

            Call it freedom of “navigation” blowback

            Right, that’s all because of these freedom of navigation drills – but, wait, these started long after China’s militarization. Do you know how long it takes to build a navy?

      • Antikapitalista

        It was actually Murrican Crapitalists, not “Bolshevik rulers”, who moved the jobs.

        If it is not clear to you, then just ask around how the United States of Aggression wages “defensive wars on the other side of the world”.

  • Merijn

    USS Decatur (DDG-73) had an encounter with a Chinese warship, with the two vessels being as close as 45 yards to one another, according to US Navy officials.

    Sounds like it was a Really Scary moment…whoOO almost another World War…..Buzz off U.S. you are nothing anymore….

  • Ricky Miller

    The Chinese have complete escalation dominance here. The entire Chinese Fleet is there whilst the USA force will always only be several task groups, at best. The U.S. is betting that China won’t escalate and will take these freedom of navigation operations and adjust to them. Not likely in the long run because these reclaimed islands and shoals have both military and civilian objects on them. That means they have to be defended. American citizens will literally rebel to their Congressmen if the powers that be in D.C. get them into a major shooting war with China where the issue is sailing 11.6 miles from a location instead of outside the twelve mile limit. Lastly, these navigation operations are based on a Law of the Sea convention that the United States has not ratified, the only major country not to do so. It takes real arrogance to with a straight face claim navigation rights based on the definition of legal held islands as defined by a Treaty the you refuse to participate in while claiming rights there from. Just sail 12.1 miles from these islets, avoid the stupidity of this confrontation. There’s plenty of room out there to navigate.

    • Leon De Elias

      Freedom of navigation is for civilian ships..Not fucking cruise/nuclear missile armed large warships..The US is actually wants to excercise this ”Right” with their Warships at anyone’s fucking doorstep,which is a HUGE fucking provocation at this point..Imagine if any Russian/Chinese or even any ”Allied” Warship wants to get this close to the US Coast..

      • Ricky Miller

        Although I agree with you in spirit that’s not how the Law of the Sea is practiced. It’s a flagged ship, equal navigation rights except where covered by local provisions or agreements. But, absolutely I agree that it’s rude not to differentiate the military from the civilian traffic, and when have you heard of a merchant ship being prevented from navigating in the SCS because of these built up islands. If these islets were uninhabited and did not have both civilian and military facilities on them the U.S. Navy might have a case. But these islands have Chinese citizens living on them, they are communities. China is there, not just hundreds of kilometers away. People need security, the islands are inhabited places with a flag, hence twelve mile limit.

      • NWOD

        LOL, what utter nonsense or lies, not sure which. Every military ship has the right to sail in international waters.

        Also Spratly Islands are over 700 miles from China, not on their “fucking doorstep”.

        Do you just write lies?

        • Leon De Elias

          Really,I want to see Russian or Chinese Nuclear/Cruise Missile Armed ships as close as 1000km from the US shore from now on..How about that mate..?

  • Dick Von Dast’Ard

    Artificial islands make great rail-gun platforms.
    If China installs those, then USN ships in SCS are just going to be big yellow ducks in a fun fair shooting game.

  • Leon De Elias

    What a heated debate in here folks..! Well as a Western European I have my opinion here for sure..
    Just the blind can’t see what the US is doing in the last few decades,one country after the other goes down in flames,with whole nations pushed into oblivion,chaos and the above doing it for PROFIT..This thing makes me angry and frankly I think the US after they were exposing themselves as main supporters of militancy and wahabbi-terrorism,anyone would support or respect the US a Democratic Country or force on this Planet at all..Its reckless foreign policies rather shaped in the interest of that ”Micro” Ultra-Fascist State in the Middles East,and its powerful lobby is bribing every US politician in the ”US” Congress..

    The Fake Dollar..? How would you consider a currency which not backed by ANY real Value..?Except the ”Almighty US” Military..? Lindon B.Johnson made an agreement which was implemented actually in the Carter era if I remember it good,that they will sell OIL only for US dollar,in exchange of ”protection”,well its working till this day,although few countries dropped it before like Iraq,Libya,Syria..And we all know what happened to these countries..
    Now the majority of the World will drop the US $$$ and I support it for only one reason,to wake up the sleeping Americans from their deep,”fluoride” dream and make them to stand up to their fucking zionist deep state which since WW2 destroyed/exploited/bled dry most of countries and nations on this Planet..
    America is not what it was before 4 decades ago,neither China or Russia…The ultimate bad guy is the USA now and get over it..