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JUNE 2021

Turkey Starts ‘Live-Fire’ Drills In Contested East Med As Macron Says EU Sanctions “Ready”

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Originally appeared at ZeroHedge

The UK’s Sky News Arabia reports that Turkey’s defense ministry has announced the start of ‘live fire’ naval exercises in contested East Mediterranean waters which will run through the weekend.

Crucially it comes just after French President Emmanual Macron said the EU stands ready to impose sanctions on Turkey, following a key summit of six European countries, including Greece.

Turkey Starts 'Live-Fire' Drills In Contested East Med As Macron Says EU Sanctions "Ready"

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“We regret that Turkey has not responded to the repeated calls by the European Union to end its unilateral and illegal activities in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Aegean Sea,” the EU communique said in reference to Turkey’s contested oil and gas exploration which Greece and Cyprus say violates their sovereign maritime territory.

“We maintain that in absence of progress in engaging Turkey into a dialogue and unless it ends its unilateral activities, the EU is ready to develop a list of further restrictive measures,” the statement added.

Last month into this month France has participated in military drills with both Greece and Cyprus, with Turkey often mirroring military maneuvers with provocative drills of its own.

That appears to be what’s happening once again, as the standoff continues. The EU is expected to take up the matter of looming sanctions once again during the last week of September.

Turkey’s navy has repeatedly warned Greece not to interfere in its ongoing seismic studies by ships near Greece’s easternmost islands as well as off Cyprus.

But already a number of “close calls” have occurred between the historic enemies, including a ship ramming incident, and a near dogfight over the skies of Cyprus.

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Sauron

France seems to be still nostalgic of the old colonial days:)))

Lone Ranger

Indeed.
Poor macaroni…

Антон С

As known as Micron.

Porc Halal

Unlike islamist ?(turkey) which is not nostalgic of the old colonial ottoman shit…:)))))))

hththny

lol, turcii se sperie și de apa de la robinet..că zic că se îneacă ??

Sauron

Both seems to be nostalgic, thats for sure. But still irrelevant o this situation.
Here, one is disputing waters next to its territory, another is sailing 1000s of miles from its coast, hence colonial nostalgia.

HiaNd

WHERE the fuck is the difference when it comes on neocolonialist nostalgia?!?
In the number of kilometers only parameter?
But this is not about neocolonialism but about EU !
Isn’t it maritime border that Turkey claims in the middle of the Mediterranean sea and goes directly over the territory of one of EU members-Greece?
So it is invading territory of EU as well.

Also, is it Libya next door to Turkey on your map maybe?
France as EU representative (because France in everything they do represent EU) not only themselves.
Together with Germany, France directly represents EU foreign policy

France represents symbolically that economic and military might of EU that dwindles anything that Turkey has!

Sauron

go vote mate. you will do more difference that way

Angry Birds

Nonsense, Turkey is sailing as far as Libya, Somalia, Sudan & Qatar. To make things worse they have actually invaded and occupied 3 of their neighbouring states ( Cyprus, Syria & Iraq )

Sauron

they did, but im talking about the mediterranean. not exactly the same location

Angry Birds

It is called double standards dear. East Med lies more or less at the same distance from Marseille as Tripoli from Antalya. But hey UAE or Egypt are not supposed to be annoyed when the turkeys stick their beaks in Sydan or Somalia. Right :)

Sauron

but you are judging on argumentum ad hominem, which is biased

Angry Birds

But it is true nevertheless. Turkey bombs lightly armed militia simple because they can and they deem them as terrorists, then UAE airforce backed by France bombs Turks in al Watiya base, Libya thousands of miles from home. That hurt a lot, no disclosure yet for who burnt them :>

Sauron

It is true no doubt, but irrelevant to what i wrote. directly at least

HiaNd

Sly pro Otoman dog barking….playing tune for gullible dorks.
You are worthy replacement of Zionism=EVIL.

Sauron

thanks mate

HiaNd

I am not surprised about you but all the other “pro Assad” bunch

being so much pro-Turkey suddenly.

What disappointment!

Turkey is the country that is invading illegally 2 other countries and wants to start the war against other country over the territory that doesn’t belong to Turkey at all!
So everything shows Turkey as aggressive terrorist supporting country.
As supporter of Assad I can not stress enough that Turkey is warmongering, thieving country, that has brought misery and destruction to Syria to the present day.
You just go on with your support of Ottoman Empire I couldn’t care less.
I am disappointed in “pro-Assad” people.

Sauron

it is

Angry Birds

Desperate Iranians. Go figure ..

John

I agree, they are not anybody´s friend in this case.

HiaNd

They seam to be Greek EU “friend” but for some reason you fail to understand obvious.
In this case Turkey is the aggressor, not smallest doubt about that.
And EU has right to express their concerned since Greece is EU member

John

I don´t care who is friend with who. I get all of that stuff. A bunch of people want Turkey to knock it off before they topple the ches board. Something very big is going on here, with potential ramifications far beyond this part ofthe world. I want to know what that is about. Reread my posts and you might understand what I am talking about on this topic. you missed my points by miles. Your responses highlighted that. Take care man.

HiaNd

How defending EU interests of internationally recognized borders of one of EU members (Greece) has anything to do with France’s “neocolonialist” past?!?

Sauron

Unilateral action is not defending EU interest but defending France interest.

HiaNd

France is one of two key countries when it comes to EU foreign policy.
Everything Germany and France agree as official EU move, is considered automatically as official EU policy.
Or if you prefer Franco-German interests are always core of every EU policy, including this one.
So yes, that move most definitely represents not only EU policy but also French interests.

So call it “unilateral” or whatever you prefer, if that makes you happy.

If France is saying that EU sanctions for Turkey are ready and waiting, than it is 100% so.
Depending of course if the Turkey is going to ignore (French) EU threat and continue withe their intentions.

Sauron

France and Germany are indeed the leading powers of EU, but since its south, Italy is also the voice. But still Germany has the presidency. Anyways didn’t Germany call against the drills?

HiaNd

Look If Macron have mentioned “sanctions” that means only one thing that France and Germany have reached a compromise FINAL decision.
Sometimes one of those two countries puts “veto” in the game to dominate in deciding.
It is never 50% – 50% in agreements…Sometimes German interests dominate sometimes French, depending how much is certain problem in interest of one of those countries.
It is like functioning of married couple almost…many decisions are matter of some sort of compromise.

Sauron

What if he is bluffing? Its not the first time he has been overconfident. Remember when he send his Navy, allegedly got screened, complained, no one supported, and got upset and left south Mediterranean.
If Germany and France did indeed agree their messages would have been same. So far Germany has been calling for dialogue, deescalation.
Regarding the power sharing, its just Macron is more outspoken person, otherwise Germany has always been the dominant in EU, economically and politically.

HiaNd

Germany has been calling for dialogue, deescalation and the same is in French interest also.
But since France had that incident with Turkey it is very important for Macron domestically (in France) that France looks strong and tough with Turkey.
So Germany and France are playing “good cop and bad cop” routine or “carrot and stick” if you prefer.
if Turkey calms down they will have German approval for good decision and if not it will be EU sanctions imposed by French insisting (and also by German acceptance as necessary measure to prevent war against EU country)
Germany is not happy with sanctions but they agree with France that they must prevent another war in Europe specially against EU country.

Sauron

None of the actors wants a war there, so that is out of the question. Germany has no immediate interest in that area, unlike France that is interested from Morocco till Lebanon. Also I repeat again, EU is not only France and Germany

HiaNd

You are dead wrong on that one.
Germany has huge market in almost 90 million Turkey.
Also Turkey is literally door to Asia very important for all German exports to that part pf Asia and Middle East by land.
Have you ever heard about Germans building railroad from Berlin to Bagdad?
That is very old German project that shows us German strategic interests to have land access to Midle East.
So you do “repeat” that EU is not only France and Germany but countries like Italy and Spain are indebted to Germany and France and other countries like Holland, Sweden etc. are just too small to play equal. While Poland is only to support their and US interests they don’t oppose in anything else Germany and France.
Any decision, any EU high official that is not approved by Germany and Francedoes NOT PASS EVER !

Sauron

So you are saying Germany depends on Turkey for access to markets, yet are considering imposing sanctions. That logically doesn’t make sense mate.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-europe-eu/italy-blocks-eu-statement-on-recognizing-venezuelas-guaido-sources-idUSKCN1PT1G2
These Italians, who do they think they are to stop EU decision. I bet they fed tonnes of pasta to Germans, so they couldn’t reach vote button:)))

HiaNd

Absolutely disgusting talking with you because you twist everything….(“depends”) is your word – exaggeration and I don’t intend to comment that.

That was just my attempt …. explanation of why Germany has reluctance to act against Turkey.
Yes , your example is just exemption to the rule that Germany and France are rulers of the EU….Guido or similar bollocks are question of low importance (maybe even Germany asked them to do that because they can’t openly challenge US direct orders )

Your comments are boring shit out of me good bye !

Sauron

The German interest in the region you mentioned with all the projects that involve Turkey. If Germany builds a railway to Baghdad, they will build it on 100km on the sky? If Germany imposes sanctions those projects are not affected?
I haven’t exaggerated a bit. You just got caught in your own inconsistency.

HiaNd

That was OLD project as an illustrative example to make my point… and I have said that clearly but you being RETARDED – you need always additional explanation.
Go talk to your self you stupid; totally retarded fuck !!

Sauron

Triggered:)))
Your example made my point not yours. so shouldn’t have mentioned it.
BTW: didn’t you block me? what happened?

HiaNd

Eat shit you pile of excrement…. that is all you know when you can’t have VALID argument to turn things awry and play victim…
You must be some Turk or of some similar crap origin pile of shit.

Sauron

On period today?:)))
I will leave you guessing on my identity:))))

Servet Köseoğlu

come on man,grow up…comment image

hththny

xaxaxa good one

Shadow

I have a strong feeling that this dispute will be the beginning of the end of NATO. Pentagon has already started looking for options for their biggest airbase in the Middle East: Incirlik Base. The first candidate is Crete(Greece) as guessed.
https://sputniknews.com/europe/202009111080434927-pentagon-eyeing-greece-as-alternative-if-erdogan-closes-incirlik-base—us-senator/

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ
Shadow

Have fun with those expensive French junks lol. We already have S-400s, more will follow and Su-35s will come soon. This means great aerial superiority. We produce every other stuff such as warships by our own. You and your master France are always sitting ducks in our Med waters.

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

Turkey is involved in a game that if it wins it will gain little, but if it loses it will lose a lot. He wants to disengage but he does not know how. And the later it gets, the less it has to gain & the more it has to lose ..

Shadow

There is no little or a lot if the subject is our lands/waters. So let it be.

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

You are wrong, is OUR SEA AND LAND are ours and have been ours for thousands of years … before the Turks even came here.

You have no friends … you have opened many fronts. Syria, Kurds, Libya, Egypt, Greece, Armenia, Israel … in a lot of countries you sell violence, war and blood. It’s time to pay

Shadow

In Libya and Syria there is ceasefire. And in Iraq we’ve already cleaned many regions from PKK filth and we’ll cooperate with Iran for the rest. The only front is in Med now. We’ve waited for so long and we’ve chosen the right time. Get ready.

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ
Dorean

Since there is a lot of posturing here (like watching an oil wrestling match): It’s really amazing how many AKP & Allies followers and newspapers in Turkey can be so arrogant and jingoistic. This is not based on any facts, just lots and lots of internal propaganda over the last few years after the coup attempt, that they now believe as the absolute truth. So Turkey “cleaned up” 3 war torn countries, some it even helped destroy in the first place (with the big wink from some factions in the US govt of course, otherwise it would be impossible)… And in the process, the Lira is now collapsing, with an amazing fiscal policy that only its government believes it will work…

And at the same time, it has managed to piss off the MED7 nations and make every single neighbor (including Russia) know that Turkey won’t stop there and that their time is coming, unless it’s stopped when it tries it. So please, just keep on underestimating everybody else. Keep on laughing like you do and do invade Greece (the 17 islands are Greek and are populated by Greeks since prehistory). So, come and get them (“Mollon Labe”). They’re right over here…

But before you do, just don’t forget the Ancient Greek concept of “Hubris”. The sin of excessive pride and transgression. (Fun fact: In the Old Testament it’s referred to as “pasha”. In the Quran (53:32) it says “So do not claim yourselves to be pure; He is most knowing of who fears Him”).

One should always have the fear of God. Hubris is always followed by “Nemesis”, meaning the vengeance of the God(s) and “Tisis”, meaning the punishment and the utter destruction of the one committing the sin of Hubris. The Modern Greek State committed hubris in the 1920’s by following the Colonial nations after WW1 and caused unending suffering to the Greek and Turkish populations. I guess it’s Turkey’s turn now.

Servet Köseoğlu

omg.. ten thousands of greeks in the streets celebrating new shiny military toys.. just open Cnn comment image

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

Yes, only in the image you sent it says..HYDE PARK LONDON xa xa xa

Servet Köseoğlu

President of Turkey will write in his diary ”I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.”

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

Indeed, … and we must say thank you for that. Because you “woke us up” from lethargy. You saw how fast we bought the Rafale.

Servet Köseoğlu

you didnt purchase anything yet sugar,.. dont get over excited..

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

WE HAVE BUYED THEM … THEY ARE COMING, I’ve been telling you this for so long. It’s a done deal. That’s why I’m telling you so confidently in public.

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ
Servet Köseoğlu

well-done,greek soldiers are photogenic at least..and ı have to celebrate you with your drone ”leonidas” finally you learned to produce your own stuff..EO Wideeye Scan,Maritime Patrol Radar(+aıs),ESM/ELINT,sonouboy,magnetic detector. So your engineers are not bad at all.comment image

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

It is not only “LEONIDAS” we have something better. It is also stealth, and go pair with Rafale.

Servet Köseoğlu

lmao..that drone Maritime ISR Heron which you hired from İsrael..you can do only salads mate

Servet Köseoğlu

Parental advisory explıcıt content ”Rise of the aegean monster”….

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

xa xa xa xa …xa xa xa

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

As you can see in the video, the nEUROn does not have a tail fin but its wings are “W” shaped, which makes it invisible from enemy radar.

Servet Köseoğlu

its experimental uav just like peugeot,citroen prototype cars..
comment image

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

Which original ?? The first flight took place in 2012. Do you know how many hundreds of such nEUROn the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle has on board?

Servet Köseoğlu

please…be serious..

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

I know very well what I say and what I write. !! Turkey was informed of all this in March 2006. Realizing that this program would be one of the top in the world, it applied to participate as a co-producer, but its request was rejected.

Servet Köseoğlu

any link,reliable source?no..rumours..besides after eryx,as-532 cougar ı never trust To French toys..

Servet Köseoğlu

not working and ı never heard such Turkeys serious interest on this program…

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ
ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

If you do not trust French products, then get Chinese hahaha spoil everything in a short time.

Servet Köseoğlu

chinese type 63 107 mm mlrs is working like swiss clock(proven at ground hundreds of times) and chinese military products way ahead of france..comment image

Shadow

That rafael thing is the worst plane design i’ve ever seen. Even surprised to see it can fly. But for how long? Until it sees a Turkish warplane:)

Porc Halal

..from the place where the Greek soldiers are positioned I think they can piss with the vault directly on the mainland coast of the ottoman clowns, right ?? … ????

Shadow

Desperate losers:) We shouldn’t expect more from these puppets though. Greece has been carved out from the Ottoman Empire by the European powers since 1824 and they were given this anti-Turk role from the beginning. They’re programmed to do this. They don’t know anything else. ‘We want Istanbul. Go back to central Asia’ are some of the lines from that programme.

Servet Köseoğlu

pay attention to list please:hwt(heavy weight torpido) so all these years greek submarines were floating without HWT, these people are joke. So called new frigates should be lockheed martin mmsc ı suppose.

big lebowski

Is there a source about the request for Su-35s?

HiaNd

No.
Rumors.Nothing confirmed. Which is logical, since it would be step leading Turkey gradually out of NATO after buying 2nd batch of S-400.
Decision like that would have radical consequences in the end.
If Turkey wants to stay in NATO they’ll buy European…The problem is that only jet left of that category is Eurofighter which is extremely expensive not only as jet but flight hours and maintenance-spare parts (since US and now France are out as an option )

Angry Birds

Turkey getting Su 35 actually sounds like great news for Greece. The direct consequence would be F15s stationed in Greece, the delivery of F35 to HAF speed up and Incirlik evacuated by USAF. Oh dear …

Shadow

Sounds great to me. Collect all those US junks lol. None would be comparable to Su-35 or Su-57. Just watch the videos and see how they dance. Regarding Incirlik, it is my dream to see it being evacuated. But you will suffer much more because of being a fully dependent US vassal.

Servet Köseoğlu

The whole joke is how giant their ego is about it.Flying to china complaining about Turkey,licking russian ass not to withdraw russian off-shores accounts,living under eu funds,charity,co-operation with every single country against Turkey.its a multi-functional and multi dimensional lap-dog and manufactured state.Sometimes, a dog’s favourite person is not always their primary caregiver. It could be their dog walker or dog sitter who provides dog boarding, or even the neighbour who always has a treat in their pocket. sad…

Angry Birds

You should hurry up with those Sukhoi because once Rafale arrive four of them armed with 4 meteor & 2 mica missiles each can take down 12 F16 block 50 ( the best unit TAF operates atm ) in a configuration carrying 2 AIM9X & 2 AIM-120

It will be a great gamble and it would be interesting to find out where that leads you :))

Assad must stay

i am wondering if this is all show or turkey is really serious

Amorphis

Back in the way, when Russia decided to sell S-300 to Cyprus, Turkey said it would sink any ship that tried to ship these S-300s to Cyprus. It came to such a point where Turkey was constantly monitoring the med. with frigates and submarines and was actually thinking of doing such a thing, risking a war with Russia (i know, lol).

This time its Greece, so yeah, I am 100% sure they are serious. Turkey was never a country afraid of conflict.

JDAM

yes, turkey like most homosexuals are brave but stupid

HiaNd

I’m 100% that you are full of shit with your little story above all.
I doubt that Cyprus ever wanted to buy S-300 (since they were very expensive)

Russia has sold S-300 to Greece and many other military stuff and no Russian ships was ever “threatened” let alone “sinked”.
And if threatened I doubt that Russia would pay any attention to that.
And if Turkey would attack Russian ship and sink it, that would be a “declaration of the war”
In that case Russia would “sink” all fucking Turkey
Turkey has just renounced invasion of Sirte-Libiya on direct threat of Egypt to enter the war if they do that !
So that is some fresh proof that you are fool of shit !

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

We bought them … Rafale is coming. FACT.

Greece announces military boost

• 18 Rafale 4.5 Gen Jets
• 4 Multipurpose Frigates (?)
• MEKO-200HN Frigates Mid-Life Upgrade (?)
• 4 MH60R helicopters
• Anti-Tank Guided Missiles
• Heavyweight Torpedoes
• Air Force Guided Missiles/Bombs

HiaNd

I suppose they talk about 4 FREMM multipurpose frigatecomment image

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

I will definitely tell you in a few days …. I want to be sure before I tell you anything

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

However, this also with Rafale , goes well with this package. Since we are a co-producing country. As you can see in the video, the nEUROn does not have a tail fin but its wings are “W” shaped, which makes it invisible from enemy radar. We are
a co-producing country.

http://www.haicorp.com/en/products-en/rd-en/neuron-en

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klHLDHFJxwc&feature=emb_logo

HiaNd

Good for you “co-producing country”…That is already world wide trend. Many companies are displacing parts of production to obtain customers.

Assad must stay

Yea i guess time will tell

Angry Birds

TR is a pile of horseshitecomment image

HiaNd

That was not horse…
Bullshit maybe?!

HiaNd

It is show, they will do NOTHING not to trigger EU sanctions !
They can’t fight EU sanctions with the canons anyways!
All this is for domestic public – gullible Turks to give them illusion how powerful Turkey is.
They have to forget about serious domestic economic problems so they give them some more hot air and Turk nationalism with demonstration of would be Turk military “might”.

John

Hello HiaNd. In general I agree with your well reasoned logic. The problem and tendency is that mistakes will be made that counter act all sound judgement. This is what happens when playing with fire and that …… is exactly what is going on here in my opinion. I wish well to you.

HiaNd

Thanks for your kind words and delicate answer.
If you would kindly specify “mistakes made” by whom?
Both sides?
EU is very slow and rigid institution.
I don’t see them making any hasty decisions, that would not be supported by major countries in EU.
Correct me if I am wrong but only country “playing with fire” here is Turkey ( not respecting internationally recognized borders ).
All the best to you as well.

Assad must stay

Yea but for how long can torki keep trying to make them forget about the serious economic problems

HiaNd

We will see that soon enough, aren’t we?
They say for Erdogan that he is very good with words (orator) but not so good strategist.
Hitler was also known for being excellent orator; and has managed to create unity of hole nation behind expansionist nationalist policy of Germany. The country that was in very big economic problems at the time . And it took him 6-7 years to build the strongest army at the time, but only because he managed to have trust of hole German hard working, well disciplined nation.
Can Erdogan do that?

I do not know, time will only give the right answer.

Assad must stay

true

John

Hey Assad. I am really starting to wonder about this stuff. Russia doesn´t have a fleet operating off of the coast Syria, large enough to handle anything NATO has in and around the Med., for nothing. That is what is raising my eyebrows.

Assad must stay

Hey John, Yea i saw that on almasdarnews, that is an interesting devlopment, maybe they are taking precautions in case something does actually pop off

HiaNd

Problem with your eyebrows and your logic Jhon is that NO conventional war is ever planned against US-NATO.
In the case of the US-NATO attack on single Russian ship that would trigger WW3 and not some “conventional” skirmish.
Maybe you are reading too much Western propaganda press and declarations of some insane US generals about “limited conventional wars”.
Russian official strategy that is published, has stated clearly that: in the case of the attack of some “overwhelming” force on Russian army and or on Russian territory, Russia will preserve right of immediate use of tactical nuclear weapons.

So keeping hole Black sea fleet was never planed for Tartus-Syria.
Any country attacking Russian forces there better get ready to immediately be nuked.

John

first of all, it is John, not Jhon.

HiaNd

OK “John” you can misspell my name anywhere you want, I don’t care about those things.
As for your comments, if they lack clarity and simplicity I lose interest in such comments…
I can’t be bothered to read it again.

John

Okay

Garga

If you take a look at the map and see how the EEZs are divided in the Med, you’d understand it’s a very serious matter for Turkey. They have such a long coast and are given so little waters as EEZ.
In fact all They are given is a little more than their own Antalia bay.

Now consider that there’s speak of a gas pipeline from eastern Med (Egypt, Israel, Cyprus) to Crete, Greece and Italy to supply from the south, and you’d understand this is also a serious matter for Russia.
This pipeline means the end of Russian gas for European consumption for a decade or two (the largest gas field in the Med, the Leviathan is estimated to have about recoverable 620 bn cubic meters, Europe consumption in 2019 was about 497 bn, do the math).
In the end, Europe will need Russian gas again, but in a decade or two a lot of things can happen.

big lebowski

The EastMed pipeline, if ever constructed (and that would be in the 2030s), will barely cover a part of European consumption to offset the reduction in Netherlands/Norwegian gas production.

The math, based on your numbers, suggests that the entire proven Leviathan reserves would only cover EU consumption for 1,25 years.

For Greece and Cyprus this is much more than gas, pipelines and EEZs.
This is an existential matter.

If they back down on a dispute just because of threats of war and because some dude in Ankara thinks that’s “fair” we might just as well surrender our independence.

In fact, Turkey has plenty of territorial waters and EEZ in the Black sea, something not evident from the map.

They are not “given” this EEZ (by whom?), that’s what they are entitled based on the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS), just by dividing the body of water equidistantly between opposing coasts. As opposed to completely disjointed ones like between Turkey and Libya (what’s next? Turkey delineates EEZ with Morocco? or Canada?).

Btw. Greece has a far bigger coastline than Turkey, so they can’t even use that argument. Which is completely baseless in the first place.

If Turks don’t like the delimitation they can take it up with geography.
I’m sure Germany would also like having a bigger EEZ but they just don’t.

Garga

Leviathan is just but one gas field. The total estimated reserves can supply the EU for a couple of decades, given the internal consumption of the suppliers doesn’t raise inproportionately.

Sure, but we’re not talking about the black sea here and there are no uninhabited rocks given to another country by various treaties at 2 km distance from Turkish shore, So there not much of a dispute there.

The Aegean dispute could be solved by political means and talks, if the lines weren’t drawn the way we see today and if both sides were willing to talk at all. The current boundaries (which you ask are given by whom) are the result of treaties imposed on a defeated Turkey. It is there for a reason and is doing its job fantastically, as evident by a 100 years of hatred between the 2 nations.

Asking too much of a defeated adversary never ends well, as we say both in case of Germany (treaty of Versailles) and Turkey right after the treaty of Sevres (which imposed much more sever terms on Ottomans than Germany, something hard to believe to be even possible). We know the result in both cases. So, I don’t think the feeling of “fairness” is something we can easily brush off. Specially when considering the large parts that Ottomans loss were due to breach of treaties they had with the European powers after the defeat of Greece and their intervention, British (Cyprus convention), Italians (Dodecanese islands, treaty of Ouchy) and Crete (given autonomy by treaty of Constantinople, under Ottoman suzerainty and other cases in the western Asia, Arabia and northern Africa.

You seem to need to take a look at how the coastline length is calculated. It doesn’t matter how rugged your coastline is, the median point is the reference for the length. Much of those gulfs and bays are Greece internal waters and the baseline is drawn from their mouth, in other words, they play no part in calculation of the length of coastline (based on the very UNCLOS which Turkey didn’t sign (in addition to the US, Israel, Syria, Eritrea, Venezuela, Peru and some land-locked countries).

This matter is as existential for Turkey as it is for Greece. I don’t think they back down although I admit the lines they drawn for their EEZ with Libya seems ridiculous and impractical.
Germany at this discussion is not my concern, and I doubt if Turks have any intention to speak with geography. They’ll do what they can to create new reality on the ground.
I hope this dispute can be solved peacefully but seeing the current political situation and meddling by greater powers, I won’t hold mu breath.

Finally, as a foreigner observer, I find the whole thing absurd and artificial. The two countries could solve it years ago.

big lebowski

The “estimated reserves” is just what the word says: estimates.

In fact, not only are there zero other proven reserves, there’s still zero research data regarding any other reserves.

Only thing we know is that the companies licensed by Cyprus haven’t found anything yet. Nor has the turkish petroleum company with its clown activities in the Cyprus EEZ and Greece’s claimed EEZ. Instead they announced a huge find in the Black Sea.

My point being that Russia doesn’t give a rat’s ass about this from an energy perspective (yet). If anything, they play a bigger game here, which includes promoting a rift in NATO, securing completion of the NordStream2 pipeline, lifting sanctions on themselves and Belarus, nurturing bilateral relations with all countries in the region, etc.

The Black Sea is relevant when you claim that Turkey doesn’t have any EEZ, to point out that sure it has. Where geography allows it.

Greece is not claiming an EEZ for “uninhabited rocks”, but for inhabited islands with financial activity, as per the provisions of the UNCLOS treaty (aka “international law”). Uninhabited islands have of course their own territorial waters (12 n.m.), but that’s another story.

Inhabited islands that were not just blindly awarded to Greece as a “result of treaties imposed on a defeated Turkey”, but because they were overwhelmingly inhabited by Greeks.

After all, the Lausanne Treaty of 1923, defining the modern borders of Turkey, was co-signed by representatives of the republic of Turkey. And includes the majority (if not all) of the territory that Ataturk asked for at the time.

The same treaty settled the matters of Cyprus, Crete and the Dodecanese islands explicitly superseding all previous treaties and agreements.

Insisting therefore that these borders were “imposed” on Turkey is a half-lie at best. They were drawn and agreed after a Turkish military victory.

No matter how you measure coastline length, Greece’s is longer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_length_of_coastline

Btw. again you make the mistake of mixing UNCLOS with coastline length.
As already said: it doesn’t matter and there’s no mention of it.

If Turkey has a problem with that they are certainly allowed to dispute it.
What they can’t do is start drawing random lines on a map.

Although I disagree that this issue is existential for Turkey or even merits all the threats they’ve been hurtling around or multi-billion investments they’ve made. Much less alienating every other country in the region, their biggest export market (EU) and their biggest security guarantor (NATO).

In fact, until 2015 the Turkish government didn’t even have this on the radar.
All this “blue homeland” bullshit was just a nationalist agenda item by dismissed or jailed former admirals. Until the coup, the fallout within the islamists camp and Erdogan’s reliance on the ultra-nationalist party to remain in power.

Like every other state has done in every other such dispute in the world since 1994, they could instead agree with Greece to settle this dispute in an international arbitration court.

Instead they’ve chosen to threaten Greece with war and to use military means to “create new reality on the ground”.

So be it, but they might lose much more than they stand to gain in the process, and they might not like the new reality on the ground.

As other such disputes have proven around the world, it’s not so easy to solve them even in the best of cases (e.g. Canada and France). Much less if there are other matters complicating relations between the countries.

IMO, Turkey has seriously miscalculated Greece’s resolve.
At the moment Greece and Cyprus have only to gain by escalating this further.

It forces neutral observers to pick a side, which will more often than not, be the one with all the reasonable arguments based on international law.

HiaNd

I agree with Big Lebowski.

Assad must stay

Yea russia doesnt want anyone discovering and using it i bet

big lebowski

Haven’t you learned anything about turks the last 5 years?

They will never stop claiming things or be content.
They’ll always need to “fight terrorists” or “create buffer zones” or “get some Lebensraum” to excuse invading, land-grabbing and pillaging other countries.

As long as they have noone or only badly armed militias opposing them, they actually act on their threats.

Whenever there’s someone to stand up to them (Russia in Syria, Egypt/UAE in Libya, Greece/Cyprus/France in Eastern Med) they’ll just talk the talk, but won’t walk the walk.

HiaNd

No…. he is like all Assad “supporters” who love Turkey and Sultan Erdogan, he loves those who exploit them.
Stockholm syndrome type of thing

Assad must stay

Or they have someone like putin to make deals with and allow them to occupy and pilfer idlib

HiaNd

Greece to Buy French-Made Military Hardware Amid Ankara-Athens Tensions in East Mediterranean

Greece would buy 18 French-made Rafale warplanes, four multi-purpose
frigates, and four navy helicopters, as well as new anti-tank weapons,
navy torpedoes, and air force missiles.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/202009131080445672-greece-to-buy-french-made-military-hardware-amid-ankara-athens-tensions-in-east-mediterranean/

NeuroProctologist

The increase in troops will happen over the coming five years. If you take the political process to pass the bills for the budget and the training of the pilots into account, it will be around that time when Greece can fly their new planes. This will not make any difference in the current conflict at all.
Besides, Turkey operates almost 250 F-16 and almost 300 fighter jets in total, if you count their fleet of F-4, and if they move an S-400 complex into the area, there will be a no-fly zone declared. I don’t see Greece look very good in an open conflict. Even if all of Europe chip in, to defeat Turkey militarily is going to be very costly.

I see this purchase like a payment of the Greek government to France in order to secure their support in the EU. Any French military posturing is only to show Erdogan that the EU is serious about stopping his crap. As soon as the sanctions start, Erdogan will come creeping on all fours, like he did in Moscow.

HiaNd

Do not put your words into my mouth than lecture me on what you have presumed (with no proves) that my ignorance might be!
That is very much provocative and ill intended approach

Also your comment lacks objectivity on all leverls I don’t know where to start

Angry Birds

Nonsense, HAF operates 150+ F16 incl block 52, 40+ mirage 2000 as well as a fleet of upgraded F4 and is more than a match for TAF. To make things worse HAF is upgrading the F16s to the block 70 standard and aviation week has published an LM chart with upcoming F35 deliveries to customers. Greece is included with 12 units. I trust LM knows their clients

The S400 are very limited in number and deployed to protect Ankara and Incirlik, although it’s doubtful if they are activated. If they are moved westwards they will become an easy target. All three Geek military branches are more than capable to destroy them if deployed in the Aegian coast :D

HiaNd

Thanks….you saved me time for answering to his ignorant comment.
ALL THESE can be used immediately by Greece

• 4 FREMM Multipurpose Frigates
• MEKO-200HN Frigates Mid-Life Upgrade (?)
• 4 MH60R helicopters
• Anti-Tank Guided Missiles
• Heavyweight Torpedoes
• Air Force Guided Missiles/Bombs

S-400 are not networked with the rest of the Turk anti aircraft Turk systems simply because not compatible.
And that is the biggest vulnerability of S-400.
They are bought to shoot down NATO jets only including Turk F-16 in the case of new putsch attempt to remove Erdogan from power

Angry Birds

Indeed, if S400 are activated there is high likelihood friendly aircrafts will be shot down.

HiaNd

Well I suppose that Russian engineers will have to answer to that problem if

installation of Russian “friend or foe” is possible to be installed on Turk F-16.
Only one thing I am sure that Russian S-400 can’t be used against Russian jets for all other jets specially Western jets I honestly do not know.

Lone Ranger

The S-400 has advanced radars it can even tell the type of jet its tracking.
And can read transponder codes as well.

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

WE BUYED IT…. IS A FINISHED FACT

HiaNd

OK thanks for confirmation….I’m just person who did stupid copy paste….with no comment or anything

ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ

I’m just telling you as a confirmation.

HiaNd



Large Number Of Russian Warships Seen Deployed Between Syria & Cyprus

“experts are seriously concerned about the presence of at least 15 Russian warships and submarines off the coast of Syria.
This is the first time such a large military formation has been seen
here, which raises suspicions about whether Russia plans to engage in a
military special operation against jihadists using the navy.

Georgios

Turkish Foreign Ministry reacts to EU’s east Med statement, says:
– Greece must talk without preconditions -means, only under the pressure of the Turkish fleet.
– Cooperate with Turkish Cypriots on revenue sharing, research- Means we keep ours and will take also yours.
– Withdraw its warships from near Oruc Reis vessel – Means, but we shall leave our ships next to Oruc.
– Support NATO initiative.- Means only Turkey and not Greece or Cyprus
– Stop arming Aegean islands. Means, after 5 decays of provocations against the Greek islands and their arming by the Greek forces to defence the imperialistic tensions of Turkey, take out your army to make easy our attack on them!
Turkish Logic….

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