Turkey-Russia S-400 Missile System Deal Has Been Finalized

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Turkey-Russia S-400 Missile System Deal Has Been Finalized

The Almaz-Antey S-400 “Triumf”

Russian presidential assistant for military and technical cooperation, Vladimir Kozhin, announced on June 29 that the S-400 long-range air defense system deal with Turkey has been finalized.

“The contract has been finalized, but the issue of a loan remains as funds have to be agreed,” Kozhin said.

He stressed that Russia sees no obstacles to the delivery of the missile defense system to Turkey, even as a NATO member.

Turkey wants to buy the expensive advanced system through a loan from the Russian government, but Russia has not agreed to grant Turkey such loan so far.

Kozhin said that the technical aspect of the agreement has been completed, but that there are many other aspects have not been agreed upon yet, including the financial side, and the political side.

The S-400 is a high altitude long-range air defense system that uses 40N6 missiles with an active radar guidance and a range of up to 400 km. The system includes 91N6E radar with detection range up to 570 km. It can detect the Fifth generation warplanes from a distance up to 150 km, according to Russian sources.

However, it’s not clear if Turkey will get the latest S-400 40N6 missile, or if it will get a reduced version according to some expectations.

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  • paul

    This all seems very strange to me. Only a short while ago Turkey shot
    down a Russia plane and now Russia is selling them an air defense
    system. This looks like black comedy to me. To make this ever more
    ridiculous the Turks want to borrow the money from Russia. Has not
    Russia lost enough bad debt in the Ukraine ?

    Someone lighten my displeasure and tell me why this is a good think. You may
    not be able to convince me.

    • Robert Mullin

      I can tell you that Russia owns the access codes to these Air Defenses. If Turkey were to decide to back stab Russia yet again, the Russians can switch them off. At least, that’s my understanding.

      • Solomon Krupacek

        and the nato will alter the codes :P

    • Miguel Redondo

      If you remember , the shooting from nov-2015 was before the screwedup coup from summer 2016. The base was Incirlik. So the authors of that shootings , the turkish only , probably are now in jail for the coup-attempt.

      • 1lias3

        you really think that was a military decision, not approved by Sultan himself? and NATO?

        immediately after the plane was shot down, the first organization to comment on it was NATO, to back Turkey

        • Miguel Redondo

          Yes , I am pretty sure , the situation in Nov.15 was different compared with today.
          Russia was bombing every day the ISIS Petro-tankers queing up to the turkish border. Turkey was still hoping that ISIS &Co would succeed, The attack on the Suchoi needed the collaboration of an Awacs (Saudi). The turkish F16 was waiting in low altitude in the valleys north of the border. So it was not detected by russian ground based radar. The Saudi Awacs give the signal when the Suchoi was in best distance for the attack , the F16 emerged and that was it.
          You didn´t need the NATO.
          Once happened , the NATO had no other election than support Erdogan , if not they would risk a russian retaliation. I don´t believe that CENTCOM in those days where anger to start a war with Russia (today the story is different).
          Half a year later , the same guys who backed Erdogan in November , hang him out to dry with the coup-attempt. That was the moment when Erdogan changed positions , because Mr.Putin saved him his butt that day.

          • 1lias3

            i dont know that much, but the Sukhoi was downed while it was in Turkeys air space (Russia rejected that btw), not when in “best distance for the attack”.

            “Half a year later , the same guys who backed Erdogan in November , hang him out to dry with the coup-attempt”

            are you saying NATO staged the coup attempt?!?

          • Ma_Laoshi

            This is certainly wrong. It’s disputed whether that Sukhoi passed through Turkish airspace prior to the attack. But the Sukhoi went down well on the Syrian side, and the Turkish F-16 was also in Syrian air space when he fired the missile. So it all fizzled as a narrative of “Russian aggression”: Washington hired a Turk to do a man’s job.

          • 1lias3

            i didnt put it correctly. according to what i had read, the plane was OR had violated turkish airspace seconds ago. Turkey released images etc. Russia denied it ofc. So, not sure where Miguel’s “optimal moment to down the plane” comes from.

            I agree with you, NATO wanted to send a message to Russia that they cannot be doing whatever they want in Syria etc. NATO+Erdogan had pre-approved this.

    • Mountains

      Idk. Seems like Turkey has officially changed sides

    • Solomon Krupacek

      russia simply needs money. putin is oligarch, too. and the oligarchs never think on the future. putin is old, weak, has enough money also for grandchildren. of course in western banks. they leave russia, and “after us the deluge”

      • Hrky75

        Solomon my friend, you post some reasonable comments, but when it comes to Russia you seem to lose your marbles. Putin needs cash, but not that much that he sells it’s top of the line hardware just to get few $. There’s no reason for Russia and Turkey not to be on good terms. Also, Greece has S-300 for decades and it’s still considered a threat for western planes. Russian, as a rule, doesn’t sell the full package – only downgraded export version. It’s much more important that Russia virtually kicked NATO out of Turkey, without firing a shot. For all intents and purposes – Putin has the whole southern front under control – not too bad for an old guy.

        • Solomon Krupacek

          s-300 is old system and greece got, when was not member of nato. s-400 is now the best what russia has. i am sure americans would not sell their best syytems to mongolia.

          putin gats older and is loosing hos mind. i can see this in hos decisions during last years

          • Hrky75

            Greece got S-300 in 1990s – and is a member of NATO since 1952. Both Soviet Union and Russia had a standard practice to sell downgraded weapon systems abroad. S-500 is already in development so I wouldn’t lose much sleep because of this. And I wish my mind would be that “lost” when I turn 65…

          • Solomon Krupacek

            russia sold s-300 to cyprus. tha gave to greece. and in that time was yeltsin, the traitor the lord of kremlin. btw, for several years grece interrupted its membership in nato.

            thanks to greeks, IL has no fear from russian systems

            http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report-Israel-trained-against-Russian-made-air-defence-system-in-Greece-436320

            putin is simply idiot. too old for srious decisions.

          • Peter Stein

            The idiot here is definitely you

          • Laszlo

            S300 sold to Cyprus and S300 sold to Iran namely the same, but “evil lives in details”, You can by a VW Golf made in 1997 and made in 2015, but there are lot of differences between the 2 modells. If you can defeat the 1997 modell, it means nothing against 2015 modell.

          • Barba_Papa

            The US NEVER sells its best systems to anyone. Not even to its NATO allies. Except Israel. Whatever it wants it gets. Often for free.

            The one advantage Russian gear has over US gear is that the latter comes with strings attached. You buy American gear, they owe you. You can’t take a shit without US approval if you operate US hardware. Just look at the Iranians what happens to their gear once the US places you under embargo.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            agree

          • Bob

            In past Israel would just attempt to steal from US, if unable to access a particular US technology either legally or at the usual subsidized rate. Dual US-Israeli nationals are only dual citizenship allowed in higher sensitivity US military technology sectors – yet they are known for engaging in serious industrial espionage and Israeli intelligence regularly attempts to both recruit and or plant dual nationals there. Both US and Israeli politicians like to publicly pretend none of this has occurred, as contradicts the overall pro-Israeli tendency in US political structure. Whilst more recently Israel has moved into attempting to create range of combined military technology projects with US companies, to create permanent access-interdependence at structural level.
            But US security services has occasionally caught one who went way too far – ie Jonathon Pollard in 1980’s stealing US nuclear technology – and it is only those US security services, by threat of open revolt against the US political leadership, that have long refused to accept giving Pollard back to Israel. Every Israeli Prime Minister since 1980’s has engaged in some personal intervention to attempt to repatriate Pollard under some proposal, where he is widely considered a national hero and his imprisonment in US an injustice.
            It’s a mindset in Israel that they require and are entitled to US military hardware.

          • George King

            Careful you are starting to ramble……..
            S-500 is the latest system and is just one of many weapons and defense technologies developed in earnest since the Yugoslavia debacle. Russia is keeping its powder dry and concealed for as Putin states when the time is right when cautioning critics and partners.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            s-500 is not in service.

          • Kell

            I strongly suspect it is, they wouldnt be selling S-400 otherwise, they will keep it off the books in case “someone” needs a surprise one morning,.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            in russia you can be sure opnly if you see 1000 pieces made.

          • Rodger

            By securing the Southern front with NATO and with the increasing struggles between the EU and the US for world economic leadership Russia will see a less aggressive US foreign policy against them. The US will have to focus more and more on China or lose influence in Asia to them. This means that Russia can afford to keep less of its powder dry and be the one that forces the broke US into an arms race by selling more advanced systems to regions where the US is flexing its muscles.
            Russia understands this very well as is shown by it playing very nice towards mainly Germany while mainly ignoring US barks and not escalating issues in Europe.

          • Ser Korz

            More weapons Russia sells to NATO, the more Russia will have control. Russian complicated electronic weapons can not work on Russians. It is in the system’s works! Stupid!

          • Solomon Krupacek

            control??? sure not! :DDDDDDDDDDD

          • Ser Korz

            Yes yes, Russia is not going to sell something that can be used on Russian military.
            I’m sure Russian military have a switch off button, and or jaming switch for many of their export sales.

          • Ser Korz

            Anyways stupid ; Export sales are not what Russia using for it self.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            thats true, but nato+israel will know, how to fight the system in iran

          • Ser Korz

            I do not think so; Putin would not sell them anything that will give away AA systems secrits over Moscow. Moscow being defended today with S-400s & S-300s; S-500s coming and will work with the S 400s as the S-300s are fazed out.

          • Rodger

            If they suddenly start selling it it probably indicates that they have made something better or that they aim for economy of scale. If they can make 1 for themselves for everyone they sell they can install a free missile defense shield vs NATO while forcing the US to create the 6th generation of fighters and gain goodwill from many bullied countries in the process.

        • FlorianGeyer

          Solomon does not have many marbles to lose. That is of course a great problem as he will be placed in the asylum for ‘Victims without marbles ‘ in Tel Aviv . Its not far from the Shoah Memorial.

        • Rodger

          Yeah, you can see the years and years of judo working. Get your opponent struggling, ignore or counter his good moves and wait for the bad ones. If he makes one of those react. Ofc with the Americans who have several agencies fighting themselves and the Arabs who are yet to make a good move this side of 1000 AD that is hardly difficult. Only Israel was playing a smart game until they started bombing in support of terrorists.

      • Rodger

        Russia has plenty of (Western) money and resources. And they are able to play the debt game with Turkey at a very good rate as they only give them stuff they make themselves. While Turkey with it’s failing tourist industry is strapped for cash.
        If Putin has money stowed away it will be in banks that won’t do what the US tells them. Putin is a Russian hero and isn’t going anywhere. He could probably raise a 1.000.000 volunteer army just by himself.

    • John Brown

      Nothing like a supposed ally, friendly master, trying to kill you and your entire family, friends etc. in a coup to get you to switch sides. and Israels Yinon plan to destroy Turkey and annex conquer Turkish territory with the Kurds.

      The Turks are now the good guys. They switched sides after the Israel and its US slaves betrayed them and orchestrated the Gulen coup that failed. Even the CIA (ahem) i mean “ISIS” assassination of the Russian ambassador in Turkey could not stop the new Turkey-Russian Alliance. Remember that Erdogan apologized to Russia for shooting down the Russian plane over Syria and announced that he wanted to be an ally to Russia on June 27,2016 The very next day on June 28 a so-called “ISIS attack” happened at Ataturk airport killing 48 and wounding more than 200. That was a warning from the US but
      Erdogan did not listen so 3 weeks later on July 15 the Gulen coup was orchestrated
      from a NATO airbase in Turkey. After the US led coup failed the US had to removed its nuclear warheads from Turkey because they no longer could “control” Erdogan. For years Erdogan tried to help overthrow Assad but now he has switched sides and wants to be an ally of Russia, so he is now securing Syria’s northern border for Assad. Turkey,Syria,Russia, and Iran will work together to clear the north of Syria from the CIA controlled Kurdish SDF/YPG/PKK rebels. That Quadruple Alliance scares the hell out of Israel who fears that once they are finished with the Kurds they will push on them. This is why Israel’s Mossad is false flag attack Europe with the desire to manipulate the Western Christian NATO nations.with sending a NATO army to the region to protect Israhell.
      If Israel and its puppets start a larger war then Russia and Turkey should launch a large number of Kaliber cruise missile and ballistic missile strikes on Israel’s nuclear forces and
      sink Israel’s nuclear armed subs given to them by Germany and destroy Israel’s air force and nuclear reactor with conventional war heads all at the same time a massive 10 minute strike decapitating racist Israel’s military the way the USSA wanted to do to North Korea. It would never work on North Korea as it is to big its terrain to mountainous but Israeli’s is a small flat desert country perfect for such a strike.
      What could Israel do? Strike back with a couple of Nukes if any survived against a non nuclear attack that left their country intact? Israel and every racist supremacist Jew on the planet would be dead in a week. What could America do? Try to attack Russia, China,
      Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran etc. with conventional forces they would lose badly. Start a nuclear war to die for racist supremacist Jews no way.

    • Valery Grigoryev

      As to me, I can not lighten your displeasure cause I am really astonished myself…
      If it is a price for Erdogan’s final permit to Turkish Stream Pipeline project – it’s a bad deal, anyway.
      Putin is degrading…

    • John

      Hello paul. The only think I can think of at the moment is that it is a form of theatrics. It is a long way from happening and it sends out a bunch of different signals, just because the negotiations are taking place. Where it will all lead, I have no clue. A good evening to you. :)

    • Sadde

      Turkey can’t make its own military equipment in order to defend itself thus extremely dependent on Nato. Because Turkey does not trust its Nato friends and vise versa it is one of the less trusted Nato members, it tries to find alternatives independent of Nato and US. Because there are few countries in possession of such technical capabilities, naturally the choice gets narrowed to the main option, Russia.
      On one hand it is convenient for Russia to get Turkey dependent on Russian technologies, not only it is source of income, but also make Turkey more careful of directly opposing Russia at the same time making Turkey more independent of US. Thus an opportunity that can change the strategic military composition away from Nato and closer to Russia. On the other hand Russia does not trust Turkey either, anyway far from enough for a strategic partnership, thus requires the total amount. With other world Russia wants to make strategic cooperation totally at the expense of Turkey – to have his cake and keep it too.
      In turn, Turkey does not trust Russia either to commit itself at such a level, thus wanting insurance by receiving the weapons first and paying later in form of loan. Turkey wants becoming independent from US but risk becoming dependent on yet another super power, ie Russia. Turkey also remembers the Iranian s300 deal.
      Despite the fact that the deal, honestly implemented of course, is in the interest of both countries, especially Russia, I do not think Russia agrees to meet in the middle. I guess, in the end everything goes down to the correlation between the degree of Turkey’s desperation and how Russia’s estimated profit allows it to risk moving more towards the middle in relation to the payment, but never as far as to the middle.

      • Rodger

        Yup, Erdogan and Russia had some issues but Turkey received very little support from NATO on the issue. It also sees the hand of the US behind the failed coup. And to top it all off the US is now very vocal about it’s support of the Kurds. Turkey wants to expand it’s influence in the former Soviet Turkic states, does loads of trade with Russia and Western tourists aren’t coming back to it’s beaches anytime soon. I would say that Turkey is moving into the Russian sphere of influence at a very fast pace.

  • Miguel Redondo

    Slap in the face for Trump…….

    • Solomon Krupacek

      america gets some examples for testing

      • Miguel Redondo

        I am pretty sure that Mr.Putin has taken this assumption into account.

        • Solomon Krupacek

          so, no slap

          • Miguel Redondo

            Read what Manuel Flores wrote……

          • Solomon Krupacek

            manuel flores is dreamer.

            i answered to another dreamer, migueô. there is no slap :P

            otherwise, the azerbajdjani pipline is nabucco, EU project and not russian :P

            turkis stream will end in turke (IF!!!) and not in EU.

          • Manuel Flores Escobar

            Nabucco dont exist…only exist azerbajan-georgia-Turkey but Turkey buy russian gas for the west part hub and petrol through pipeline to Russia from east coast of black sea to ceyhan!…project Turkstream is to end in Greek coast then Gazprom build pipelines to Serbian, Hungary hub!

          • Solomon Krupacek

            but will exist. also turkish stream does not exist yet.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            btw. the EU did not agreed with your plan. it is forbidden to build balkan pipeline.

          • Kell

            Got a link?

      • FlorianGeyer

        Any delivery date will likely be several years hence and I am sure that President Putin and his staff have considered the possible Geo Political situation then that may well not involve the US as they great hegemon.

      • Rodger

        Russia probably wants the US to have those.

        • Solomon Krupacek

          i am sure, this was discussed before sold for iran.

  • Manuel Flores Escobar

    S-400 for Turkey in exchange of Turkstream gas pipeline, another line Syria-Irak-Iran-Azerbajan to link Turkstream, to keep away Gulf state gas proyect to EU, to stop fund terrorist in Idlib, to stop Kurds SDF ambition on Syrian petrol yield fields….man in fact this is the best military system in the world!

  • svenne svensk

    Why would anyone like to buy that system it can’t take down the aircraft that constantly bombing the Syrian government forces

    • Russell A Wilson

      Do you really think that Russia would take down an American aircraft when their own base is not under attack. Russia’s mandate is to fight terroism in Syria not defend it from JEWUS airforce. The s-400 is there to proctect Russia’s assets only. We will not findout how good the S-400 is as long as Russia is not under a direct attack.

  • Volker Burkert

    “Kozhin said that the technical aspect of the agreement has been completed, but that there are many other aspects have not been agreed upon yet, including the financial side, and the political side.”

    Before I get too excited about this “deal” I will wait for something more definite. That wording seems to me more like a delay tactic by the Russian side.

  • Real Anti-Racist Action

    This is so funny, cause Turkey is the second largest NATO army! haha. You can bed that CIA and Mi6 and Mossad will be taking these systems apart quickly to reverse engineer them in no time haha.
    Russia sells S-400 to NATO, but will not see it t Syria or Iran or best-Korea!
    haha Russia pimps themselves out for NATO $’s haha.
    Turkey enjoyed shooting down that last Russian plane, now they will be able to do it on much larger scales!
    Russia is officially a looser now. They neglect there only friends, and sell there most advanced material to NATO forces.
    What a bunch of loser’s!
    Good luck with that Russia, it will bite you in the ass later and everybody knows it.
    Even Israel is laughing, cause now they will go to Turkey and reverse engineer it, so later when they blitz more into the ME, Russian S-400 systems will be just as useless as Russian S-300 system is today against Israeli aircraft and missiles.

    • Solomon Krupacek

      Gorbachev was traitor
      Yeltsin was traitor
      Putin is traitor

      how pathetic

      • Ma_Laoshi

        I’m not alone in thinking you go too far, but the endless badgering of Putin in the NATO press seems to have gotten to him to some extent–the West plays long games of its own. There is also a centuries-old constant in the minds of Russian elites that their fate lies with the West, regardless of the latter’s behaviour. Kind of how Western support for Israel is not conditional on the latter’s behaviour. Family therapists call these: abusive relationships.

        • Solomon Krupacek

          putin began good.
          now simply is too old. long, long years heard only positive opinions, the critics were suppressed. he is thinking, he is superman, knows everything. i speak russian. several times i looked at his TV show, when discussed with citizens. (this is soooo, childish comunist style!!!). and he, the almaghty solves their problems. for example in last month 1 woman cooled from siberia, she had problems with flat. zthe next day she got one. this is misuse of presidential position. he is like tsar. and the people should pray for him.
          so, putin is not more that guy he was. he should go and give the position for younger, better.

          the same history shows the syrian adventure. hurrraaaaaaah, sent 100 planes, perfect beginning, and then lost interest and is fighting on 30%. THIS IS TIPICAL socialist way of thinking.

          there was a joke 5 steps off building of socialism:
          1. pre realization ecstasy
          2. disillusion during realization
          3. looking for sinners
          4. prize for non-participants
          5. punishment of guiltless

          this joke was written by life and is very wise. this is the characteristic of russian type socialism. and this is the guideline for actual russian society, too.

    • Peter Moy

      You made an excellent point about the potential of the S-400 SAM systems in Turkish hands. Does anybody in their right mind really trust that Erdogan? Do US/NATO/Israel pilots really fear the S-400? There is volumes of information that tell how effective this system is, but it has not been proven in combat yet. Russia is making a very bad decision if it sells the S-400 to the Turks. I say supply them only to the SAA so their troops aren’t bombed on a regular basis by their enemies. Then we will see how good this system is.

    • gfsdyughjgd .

      I support your points once Erdogan received this S-400 system reverce engineering will start so will be Heimeiman Russian base be in trouble from Nato.

    • Rodger

      And what if that results in NATO realizing the S-400 they sold to Turkey can easily blast the F-35 or even F-22 out of the sky? Don’t assume your ‘enemy’ will make an unforced dumb move.
      If the system shows that the F-35 is no match for it before the industry makes its investments on the F-35 back by selling loads of them to other countries it’s like shooting down a 1000 of them down at once and the parties that it will harm the most are the ones normally immune, the military industrial complex in the US. The US and early adaptors will be left with a very expensive plane that can never benefit from economy of scale. All for the price of revealing some secrets that will be redundant anyway once the S-500 comes out.
      And be sure that Turkey will lever what it learns from it as best it can against NATO and Israel. Because no way in hell is Turkey gonna let Mossad fiddle around with it.

  • Miguel Redondo

    Off-topic
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/video-islamist-rebels-reignite-battle-northern-hama/

    FSA & Co start again battle in northern Hama

    so we will have fake gas attack in 3 – 2 – 1 – 0

  • Valery Grigoryev

    Very strange deal. Putin is crazy, really got cranky…

  • Brad Isherwood

    Russia going to get aids from sex with Turk.

    • Kell

      In space its a different story, offworld Russia and US cooperate closely.

  • dutchnational

    What the rapport really says is that nothing has been decided.

  • Braincleaner

    If all of you will believed anything the South Front tells you, you’ll end up with damaged brains. Read again. This time very carefully and you’ll sense that this article is nothing but grandstanding. There is so many ifs and buts. At the end, there was no concluded agreement signed and consumated. If one will conclude based on its title, this is fake news!

  • SnowCatzor

    They shouldn’t be selling their best SAMs to the Turks, they can’t be trusted and have historically been the natural enemy of Russia. I don’t care how much rapprochement they’ve made since 2015, it’s still far too early to trust them.

    • Talkative_mime

      The Turks are working on making their own – They have short and medium range, with the S400 it will cover all 3 ranges hence provide the Turks with sufficient air defense. As for trust I know the Greeks and Cypriots gave Israel info on the S-300 which the Israeli used against Syria.
      So don’t assume friend or foe nowadays its all national interest.

  • Ramone

    How sure is everybody that the s-400 sale to Turkey is a 100% verified fact? Exactly. Wait for some better info before panicking like a bunch of 12 year-old girls. And before you start crying about what a loser Putin is, look in the mirror and stop pretending youve got Russian strategy all figured out.

  • tigbear

    I will disagree with those below. This is a good move. Call me a sucker, but I believe Turkey has gone over to the other side. After the Kurdish issue, Erdogan realizes the US and Israel cannot be trusted. To the Turks, the Kurdish issue is a matter of life and death. Erdogan has swung now more to the side of the Turkish people. There is nothing in it for him to betray the Russians. He has shown his hand. He said he would support Qatar against the USA’s proxy, the Saudis. There is no going back. He is establishing relationships with Iran. He is wise. The US-Israel side were getting too strong. It was getting like they could pick any nation and manufacture a reason for its takedown and invade. After Syria, Iran, who’s next? Turkey doesn’t want to be used as a war zone if a Russia-NATO breaks out.

    Why be nuked for US-Israel’s sake? The other NATO leaders are also starting to pull back. Their nations will be war zones, but US and Israel won’t be. Russia has nothing to do with Turkey. They’re not fighting over anything. Erdogan has no reason to be hostile to Russia. Russia is courting Turkey for its safety. They have to offer something to the Turkish. The US is promising MOABs and nuke missiles to Turkey. Russia has to make it attractive to Turkey to come over. If they don’t and Turkey changes side, Turkey will become a target of NATO – what will it defend itself with? Hence the S-400s.

    • tigbear

      The Russians can’t match (or is not willing to do so) what the US offers Turkey. However, it looks like Turkey is moving toward Russia’s side. This shows the goodwill of the Turkish. Even though the arms are of lesser quality than what the US can offer, Turkey is choosing the Russians’ side. The Turkish are good allies to have. Unlike Syria, their army has been well-trained. Turkey has always been a military nation. Turkey is a natural ally of Russia’s anyway. Turkey is situated in a place where Russian oil and gas can pass through to the rest of Europe. It is between the Middle East and Europe.

      I just wish Putin would treat Syria and Iran the same, and consider giving them S-300s and S-400s too, if he hasn’t already.

      • tigbear

        Turkey was crazy to side with US-Israel in the Syrian war. It should have remained neutral. Turkey probably miscalculated everything. Turkey probably had a scheme with Qatar to replace weak secular and Shiite Assad with a strong Sunni leader who was for an Islamic government. This would preserve Islam on that region. They thought they would use the US to help them do that. It turned out the opposite. The USA were using Turkey and Qatar to make Syria a secular state run by western-liberal leaning Kurdish.

        Erdogan started to argue with the US side at the beginning of the year when the US started to fund and train the YPG. Then relations completely broke down over this issue when neither side would compromise. The rest is history.

        Russia is doing this or thinking of doing this because it is an issue that closely pertains to its security. Syria and Iran not so much. Turkey is at its border.

        • Rodger

          Russia selling it to Iran or Syria would draw a huge reaction from the US. But how can the US protest it selling it to ‘one of its greatest allies’? Its pretty clear Russia wants the world (US/EU/NATO) to know what the S-400 can do. Selling one is a save way to do it. Much better than shooting down an US plane.
          And there are loads of ways to prevent reverse engineering when you spend some time and money on it. You can even build in booby traps like false solutions, making it look like it works a certain way that leads towards a dead end forcing millions of wasted research dollars.
          If I was NATO/Turkey I would remember that Russians see the ancient Greeks as their ancestors and that Troy lies in modern day Turkey.

      • BL

        Russia can’t match the US? Are you joking? The S-400 is the best anti-air system in the world, the US doesn’t have anything that even comes close. Stop drinking the Pentagon Kool-aid

        • tigbear

          So is Russia going to give Turkey MOABs and nukes, is it?

  • Kell

    Yeah cant help feeling this is a bad idea, unless its part of some 4D chess move by Putin.

    • Rodger

      (Just a scenario)
      US spends a bundle to develop its latest plane, pretty much forcing its closest allies/vassals to invest a lot in it too, development is done (way over budget) and production begins, Putin sells a cheap weapon that can swat the plane out of sky as easily as it’s predecessor which costs only 10% of the new plane and tells the world he will sell it even to his biggest rivals. Check mate!
      Sales on the plane will drop to zero, the military industrial complex takes a huge hit and the closest allies to the US in their own countries get lynched. And the US is forced to start a new round of planes 25 years early.
      If he’s really smart he sells the top of the line claiming it is their best version (making NATO believe they actually have something even better).

      • Kell

        They risk overmatch though, unless hes calculated that Western economies cant bear the cost and may collapse shades of Reagans Star Wars space based missile defence system that sent the Soviets broke.
        Bad move though with the US, as the petrodollar is effectively still world currency limitless amounts can be printed with minimal effect on the value of the dollar itself, this will gradually change but not for a while.
        In the mean time US military Industrial complex gets to restart F-22 production and begin working on massively expensive 6/7th gen fighters with much coinage falling into the pockets of the (((Oligarchs))).
        If they are successful and thats assuming they are not already holding back something a generation or two ahead then Putin is overmatched and has exposed his best system (I suspect it isnt) to reverse engineering and defeat.

        • Rodger

          Yeah, it would be a pretty big gamble. But I don’t think the dollar is all that secure.

  • tigbear

    I will disagree with those below. This is a good move. Call me a sucker, but I believe Turkey has gone over to the other side. After the Kurdish issue, Erdogan realizes the US and Israel cannot be trusted. To the Turks, the Kurdish issue is a matter of life and death. Erdogan has swung now more to the side of the Turkish people. There is nothing in it for him to betray the Russians. He has shown his hand. He said he would support Qatar against the USA’s proxy, the Saudis. There is no going back. He is establishing relationships with Iran. He is wise. The US-Israel side were getting too strong. It was getting like they could pick any nation and manufacture a reason for its takedown and invade it. After Syria, Iran .. who’s next? Also, Turkey doesn’t want to be used as a war zone if a Russia-NATO war breaks out.

    • tigbear

      Why be nuked for US-Israel’s sake? The other NATO leaders are also starting to pull back. Their nations will be war zones, but US and Israel won’t be. Turkey and Russia are not fighting over anything. Erdogan has no reason to be hostile to Russia. Russia is courting Turkey for its safety. They have to offer something to the Turkish. The US is promising MOABs and nuke missiles to Turkey. Russia has to make it attractive to Turkey to come over. If they don’t and Turkey changes side, Turkey will become a target of NATO – what will it defend itself with? Hence the S-400s.

    • paul

      What you write is certainly plausible. Things may unfold as you think. I
      don’t know. If they work out differently this does not take away from
      the merit you argument at this point in time.

  • dutchnational

    According to Al Monitor they had a partial agreement in principle but there had to be political russian approval and the payments were not agreed upon as Turkey wanted to pay by a loan from the Russian government, ie, they wanted the missiles for free.

    I also have a shopping list I want for free.

  • Tudor Miron

    “Making enemies become neutrals. Making neutrals become allys” – think about large picture.