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The Saker: “Putin, Israel and the downed Il-20”

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The Saker: "Putin, Israel and the downed Il-20"

Written by The Saker; Originally appeared at The Unz Review

Yesterday (Sept 19th), I tried to post a short commentary suggesting that before we jump to conclusions about anything, we ought to wait for the fact to come out. But to no avail. The chorus of “Putin is a doormat!!”, “bomb Israel!!” and similar inanities is carrying on, louder than ever. Reading that crazy nonsense, I wanted to toss in a slogan, something like “Jew-haters and Putin-haters – unite!”. But then I realized that it would be futile because they have already united…

My friend Andrei Martyanov has tried to bring some logic and sanity into this pandemonium which I posted here (in spite of not normally doing reposts). Well, at the risk of being called a “gatekeeper” or a “cryto-Zionist”, I have decided to also try once more to bring this discussion into the realm of sanity, facts and logic.

First, let me start by a very simple and primitive question:

Why in the world has nobody considered that the Israelis might have truly screwed-up?

Seriously, I mean it. Unless you belong to the type of folks who believe that the Israelis are exceptionally crafty, smart and quasi infallible (there are such folks amongst both Jew-lovers and, more surprisingly, Jew-haters), this is a legitimate question, no?

What do we know for sure as of right now (Sept 20th)? We know that the Israelis did not give enough warning time to the Russians, which is in direct violation of an agreement between Israel and Russia. Do we know that they did it deliberately? No, we don’t. We really don’t.

Anybody with any military experience will tell you that what is known in the USA as FUBAR, SNAFU and “cluster****” is something all militaries do on a daily basis. Furthermore, the Israelis have had terrible screw-ups many, many times. Just a summary of all the screw-ups of the famous (and much over-rated) Mossad would take pages and include many outright embarrassing incidents (for a good laugh, just look at the inept Israeli attempt at assassinating Khaled Meshal!). So why is everybody assuming that the Israelis carefully planned the whole thing?

Next, let’s assume that this is simply the typical case of Israeli arrogance (not a myth!) and that they decided to inform the Russians as late as possible. Does that at all entail that the maneuver of the Israeli F-16s pilots to seek cover from the S-200 missile was something they had planned in advance? Does anybody bother to look at the actual (as opposed to Hollywood) record of the Israeli Air Force during past wars when they were actually challenged by a reasonably capable air defense? There is a detailed discussion (in Russian) about this here which can be summarized like this: as soon as the Israelis start losing aircraft their martial prowess rapidly vanishes. Now please recall this: the Israelis have had recent losses, some admitted, some denied, but there is no doubt that they are tense and very concerned. Bottom line: I would fully expect the Israeli pilots to freak out and seek cover as soon as they are told by their warning system that they are being painted by a radar in tracking mode (the S-200 has a semi-active radar homing guidance system). If that is the case, and I am not saying that this is the only possibility, then the fault is of the Israeli pilots, not of their commanders or the Israeli state as a whole. Yes, the command responsibility is the one of the state, but not the guilt for having engaged in such an evasive maneuver (besides, knowing the price placed by Israeli on goyim lives, this would be just so typical, would it not…)

At this point, I need to ask another question: what would the Israelis gain from shooting down the Il-20? They sure ain’t gonna frighten the Russians (Russian military don’t scare easy) and the Il-20 will be replaced. Scaring the Iranians or Hezbollah? Forget it – not happening. Maybe there was a real lucrative target that they destroyed? Yes, maybe, be so far we don’t know anything about this. So what would be the point?

Then the “sister question”: what would the Israelis risk by deliberately shooting down a Russian EW aircraft? Well, in theory, they would risk having their aircraft shot down and their airbases engaged with Russian missiles. That is highly unlikely, I will admit, and the Israelis probably understand the Russians very well (many of them being from Russia). But could they be sure that the local commanders would not order an immediate retaliation (as their current rules of engagement do authorize them to!)? Let me remind everybody that this Spring, the USA was not so sure at all, and following the words of the Russian ambassador that “not only missiles but their launchers would be destroyed” the USN and Air Force decided to shoot as little as possible and from as far as possible. As for the British sub, its captain decided to cancel the planned missile strike entirely (they were being shadowed by two Russian subs). Seems to me that the potential risks of that kind of operation would be pretty high, while the potential rewards rather unclear.

Those who insist that this was a deliberate Israeli act need to come up with a halfway credible explanation not only for how this was done, but also why this was done.

Now, like many others, I despise the Israeli racist, genocidal rogue state with all my heart. But that does not prevent me from being capable of imagining a scenario in which the Israelis simply screwed-up. Believe it or not, but my disgust for Zionist ideology does not at all entail a boundless belief in some Israeli infallibility.

Finally, let look at this: today (Sept 20th) an IDF delegation led by Air Force Commander Maj.-Gen. Amikam Norkin is in Moscow. Also participating in the trip are the Head of the Foreign Relations Division, Brig.-Gen. Erez Meisel and other officers from the Intelligence, Air Force and Operations Divisions. Does anybody believe that all these officers went to Moscow just to thumb their noses at the Russians? Or maybe they all traveled to Moscow to present some totally non-credible excuses which will only infuriate the Russians further?

My guess is that they have something exculpatory (at least in part) to show.

Putin-haters and Jew-haters (united, of course!) will immediately declare that the Israelis went to Moscow to pressure Putin into not giving in into the (very real) public outrage and calls for retaliatory measures. To this I will very simply reply: rest assured that there is a very powerful pro-Zionist 5th column in Russia which is already putting the maximal amount of pressure on the Kremlin and there is no need at all to send top IDF officials to do that (especially on Yom Kippur!).

This is probably due to my messy writing style, but very often when I say “A” some folks clearly hear “B” (or even “non-A”!), so with them in mind, I will be very very clear and spell it out: I am not saying that the Israelis did notdeliberately shoot down the Il-20 and I am not saying that the Israelis are not responsible for the resulting loss of life and equipment.

What I am saying is that Putin, in contrast to the hordes of self-appointed armchair strategists, does have to look at all the possible options before deciding what to do next. Because even if we assume that the Israelis are irresponsible, arrogant, evil and reckless (which they are), this is not a reason for the Russians to emulate them or start a war.

If the Russians conclude that the Israelis did it deliberately, I will support a strike on Israeli air bases. If the Russians conclude that the Israelis cannot be trusted to abide by any agreements (which I think is indisputable), then I think that the Russians should declare an air exclusion zone over the Russian forces (a 100km radius or so). I also think that it is high time to keep a pair MiG-31BMs on 24/7 combat air patrol high over Syria (they can come quite close to replacing a much more expensive and vulnerable A-50U AWACS).

At this time (Sept 20th 20:37 GMT) all they have announced is that ““both sides emphasized the importance of the states’ interests and the continued implementation of the deconfliction system”. If that is all that the Russians decide, then I will find it wholly inadequate and I will predict a further surge in frustration against not only the government, but against Putin himself. But, for the time being, we need to wait and see what the Russian investigation will reveal. Only then can we begin cheering Putin or calling him names.

There is also this possibility: the Russians would decide on an air exclusion zone and tell the Israelis, but both sides would decide to keep this secret in order for Israel to save face (because if the Russians declare an air exclusion zone, this will create a safe heaven for Hezbollah and all the other militias which would be a political disaster for Bibi Netanyahu). So we might never find out.

Finally, I want to add one more thing which is rarely, if ever, mentioned.

The S-200 is a pretty old air defense system. We also know that it does not have a Russian IFF. However, the Russians have declared several times that the Russian air defense network and the Syrian one were integrated. This is what best explains, at least in part, the very high number of US cruise missiles intercepted in April. The problem is that the way the S-200 (and most modern air defense systems) works is that the S-200 is fully integrated into a larger air defense network administered by automated air defense management systems which is operated by a higher echelon air defense command. This means that the Syrian air defense crew did not simply detect the incoming missiles and fire off one of their own. At the very least, this decision was taken by a higher echelon Syrian air defense command. Now we know that the time was extremely short and, hence, the Russian air defense personnel might not have had the time to take protective action, especially not when dealing with a large, slow and vulnerable moving EW aircraft (the fact that this aircraft flew un-escorted is definitely a Russian mistake!). Still, we know that the Russians have many early warning capabilities which the Syrians do not have (AWACS, space based, shipborne radars, over-the-horizon radars, etc.) and there is a pretty decent chance that somebody could have done something to prevent what happened. True, since the Israelis and Russians had an agreement, the Russians therefore classified the Israelis as “non-threat”, but it does not take a genius to understand that four Israeli F-16 flying towards the Latakia Governorate are up to no good and that this warrants immediately going on full alert.

So this might be the reason why Putin spoke of “tragic circumstances”: there might be more blame to pass around than just piling it all up on the just the Israelis. By the way, even if true, none of this would in any way exculpate the Israelis for the very simple reason that had the Israelis warned the Russians on time this entire tragedy might have been avoided even if the prime culprits are cowardly Israeli pilots, less than competent Syrian air defense crews or too trusting Russians. By “warning” the Russians just 1 minute before the attack the Israelis created an environment in which such a tragedy simply had to happen. This is why I think that no matter what the Russian investigation find, anything short of an air exclusion zone over the Russian forces would constitute an inadequate response: the fundamental Israeli responsibility is already established. But what is still missing are the (important) details.

One more thing in conclusion: the last time the Russians made a deal with the Israelis, it worked remarkably well, let’s not forget that. The Syrian forces re-took control of their southern border without the Israelis doing anything meaningful to stop them. Let also remember that at the beginning of this war the usual chorus of Putin-haters was already screaming that “Putin disarmed and betrayed Syria!!” when the Russians removed the (useless) chemical weapons from Syria (thereby stopping an imminent US attack). When the Russians then proceeded to single-handedly save Syria from the “good” and “bad” terrorists, those who were screaming about betrayal remained silent and never admitted that they were wrong.

The truth is that no matter what Putin does, we can expect the chorus of Putin-haters to bellow at the top of their lungs “Putin betrayed X” (replace “X” with whatever you want). Yes, they are stupid and tedious, and nothing will stop them (I also suspect that a lot of that nonsense is machine generated, at least judging by the kind of repetitive crap the moderators constantly intercept on my blog). But for the rest of us, we need to remain critical of both Putin and Russian policies, but we need to do so by logically processing well-established facts, not by just waiting for whatever pretext to resume the usual mantra.

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hope springs eternal.

If the purpose of this article is to defend Putin and Israel, I’m afraid it’s not a good job. Israel is guilty in every way. They had no business to be attacking a sovereign nation in the first place. Putin has failed terribly here by not denouncing Israel…my view.

1691

It might look like Putin has failed but I think that Putin outsmarted them again, with Erdogan first and later with his response to the tragedy.

Leon

Putin has failed terribly here by allowing Israel to strike Syria : more than 200 times since 2017 ! Iran and Hezbollah pay a terrible price since 2011, that’s 4 years before Putin intervened, to keep Tartus and Hmeimin free of ISIS. Allowing Israel to bomb these faithful allies is disgusting.

1691

I am sick and tired of having wool pulled over my eyes, time and again. The Saker is another crypto-zionist.

telemetrie

Very interesting fact: Russia has “drills” in the area. Why ? If they want only to find black boxes from the wreckage, it wouldn’t require no-fly zone and huge military drills.
May be they try to protect IL-20 technology which could be stolen by Israel/USA.
But may be (just may be) they want to find parts of french missile fired from Auvergne as a proof.
Anyway. Even if they found it, nobody in the West will accept this proof.And Russia will probably cover up this fact as well.

1691

May be. It is more important for the Russians to know what hit them than the public. After all, they are dealing with the situaation, we are just observers. The west in my eyes has lost any credibility and respect and I consider them a bunch of psychotic maniacs who will get the right dose of cure at the right time and place.

hope springs eternal.

Yes, I hope the public in the Western countries realise how their leaders have been fooling them, with fear mongering and lies.

Ray Douglas

Don’t hold your breath.

Spit

You have given Yourself half of the Clues.
Think MH-17 but bigger… When it went down What did the Russians gain?

Merijn

All these Dis-Info-Agents are Very Very Active Lately….I think some folks are shittin’ their Pants….it Smells like Desperate Panic… and they will make Mistakes with every step they Take….Try More of your Lies West!! I hope you’ll have some Civil Wars soon…clean up the garbage

Val Shadowhawk

Again, I would refer to ‘them’ as Neo Bolsheviks. The NSDAP never called themselves ‘Nazis’. Secondly, it was a Bolshevik German jew named Konrad Heiden who proffered that stupid term ‘Nazi’ to villify the NSDAP and their leader, the great Adolf Hitler, who fought against the banksters.

Merijn

Ashke Nazi…..in the End it is an Unholy Alliance of Knights Templar & “Jews”, the Vatican, Black Nobility, Imposters & Crypto-whatevers, Banksters, Multinationals….

Val Shadowhawk

I wish you would not do that. It plays right into ‘their’ hands my dear friend!!! Stop and think about it. PLEASE!!

Val Shadowhawk

Adolf Hitler was NOT financed by the banksters. He fought against them.

Merijn

I think Hitler, Stalin, Churchill Roosevelt & Truman were all Freemasons… or Hitler was naive and had a lot of Freemasons around him…. WWII was a Plan to Destroy Germany for once & for all… the ZioFascists won…IsraHell was Born

Val Shadowhawk

Contrary to what you have been led to believe, Adolf Hitler was not a Freemason. He wotked very diligently to purge any such Sercret Societies from the NSDAP. That is another fact, organized jewry has kept hidden.

Val Shadowhawk
Merijn

This is a reason why I call them ZioNazis by the way….Hitler was Financed & perhaps even Hired by the Banksters…to execute the plan for WWII

https://www.bastabalkana.com/2013/07/wall-street-and-the-rise-of-hitler-the-history-of-banks-who-funded-nazis/

http://robscholtemuseum.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Albert-Pike-Three-World-Wars.pdf

https://youtu.be/NAAm6ToDXX4

Jewish Albert Pike – Agent of Rothschild in America – Main Architect of Civil War – Founder of KKK
Albert Pike was born on December 29, 1809, in Boston, and was the oldest of six children born to the Jewish family of Benjamin and Sarah Chase. It is unknown why Albert Pike’s father later change his name from Chase to Pike, maybe to hide his Jewish identity. He studied at Harvard, and later served as a Brigadier-General in the Confederate Army and one of the major architect of the Civil War. After the Civil War, Pike was found guilty of treason and implicated in the assassination of President Lincoln, only to be pardoned by fellow FREEMASON President Andrew Johnson on April 22, 1866, who met with him the next day at the White House. On June 20, 1867, Scottish Rite officials conferred upon President Johnson the 32nd Freemasonry degrees, and he later went to Boston to dedicate a Masonic Temple. Albert Pike acting in behalf of the de Rothschild family, founded the KKK.
ALBERT PIKE LETTER REVEALS ILLUMINATI PLAN FOR WORLD WAR 3
Famous Freemason Albert Pike wrote a letter to Giuseppe Mazzini in 1871 that purports to outline the illuminati plan for World War 3. The letter to Mazzini was on display in the British Museum Library in London until 1977, before being inexplicably removed from public view. Bibliotecapleyades.net reports: Giuseppe Mazzini was an Italian revolutionary leader of the mid 1800s as well as the Director of the Illuminati. Albert Pike (historical Masonic figure) is a 33rd degree, Freemason Occultist Grand Master and creator of the Southern Jurisdiction of the Masonic Scottish Rite Order. Following are apparently extracts from the letter, showing how Three World Wars have been planned for many generations.
“The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the “agentur” (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions.” “The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm.” “The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the “agentur” of the “Illuminati” between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion… We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view ( via boredombash.com ). This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.”

Val Shadowhawk

Hitler fought to free Germany and the greater population of our planet from the Bolsheviks. It is documented and irrefutable. Despite the so called ‘winners of the war’ and their lies. The Allies (All Lies) were proffered and supported by the banksters, headquartered in The City of London. These were wealthy jewish moguls who saw in the National Socialists a threat to their global domination. They would not finance such a perceived threat, but declare war on it. Which they did, the very month Hitler was appointed to lead the Chancellory. March 24th, 1933, Judea Declated War on Germany. A fact that is easily found with a simple search. The use of the term ‘Nazi’ in reference to the N.S. is jewish propaganda. We need to get our minds completely purged of this insidious poison.

Allan Greedspoon

Well said. Who knows what the real truth of history actually is? We are brainwashed from birth and even if we think we are now free of their programs, we may still have elements of them (propaganda cookies) in our subconscious minds. Hitler was vilified because he dared to challenge the ZioNazis. He detached Germany from the New York bankster cartels, gained back control of Germany’s central banks, industry and media from the ZioNazis and created the conditions which made it possible for Germany’s financial miracle to happen . .an economic resurrection that some claim was the greatest economic miracle of the 20th Century . .

Tommy Jensen

When one has to use so many words on a “truly screwed up” excuse, you know TheSaker is full of pure bs.
It was Israel´s no. 201 “truly screwed up” attack on SAA inside Syria.

telemetrie

Saker is repeating the same bullshit.
Lets apply Ocama’s razor on his theory.
Poor Jews were double crossed, omitted inform Russia by accident, French vessel was not knowingly firing missiles on Latakia, everything was a coincidence and IL20 was downed by Syrian S200.
PATHETIC. Ocama’s razor test – FAILED.
IMHO Putin is under pressure by Russian oligarchy – remember, they are mainly Jews – and that’s why he can’t go openly against Netanyahu and Israel.

My theory below. Ocama’s razor test – SUCESS

********************************************

1. Nobody knows, that Syrian S200 missiles downed IL20. It is what
mainstream says. I say, be extremely careful with this statement. It is
probably hoax and part of provocation, because mainstream came with
this fake news IMMEDIATELY (for God’s sake, how could they know ?)
2. There was French vessel near Latakia firing missiles. Coincidence ?
Surely not. Why nobody asks role of Macron’s (Soros’s &
Rothschild’s) France in the incident ?
3. Putin’s reaction was very weak. Why ?

Let me explain it.
Firstly four Jewish F16 and French vessel Overn were apparently coordinated
from the same command center . French vessel was a bait for IL20
meanwhile F16 were bait for Syrian S200. It is highly unlikely, that
French vessel would fire missiles on Latakia and not inform USA (and
Israel) about it. It is highly unlikely, that Israel accidentally
missed inform Russia about their 4 F16 striking in proximity of Russian
Latakia airbase .
Timing was key aspect of this surprising attack.
Russian should be convinced, that Israel and France are performing
attack on Khmeimim Airbase, so they were forced to send IL20
immediately, before Syrian PVO was informed.

Secondly, mainstream
was eager to start the fake news, that IL20 was shot down by S200. It is
highly unlikely. F16 flew very low. So they couldn’t be detected by
Syrian PVO. They appeared on Russian radars one minute before attack. If
Syria reacted immediately, it would be in normal scenario too late,
probably on returning turn to Israel. But this is not the case. F16 were
attacked in the proximity of IL20 so they didn’t return as they should,
rather then guided Syrian missiles on IL20 deliberately to support hoax
about S200 downing IL20. My conclusion – IL20 was shot down by missile
fired from French vessel rather then by Syrian S200.

Thirdly Russian reaction was too weak, explanation about ‘unfortunate incident’ sucks.
Putin is probably aware, that this provocation was a pretext to start
WW3. If Russia retaliated and sunk French vessel (the real killer of
IL20), mainstream would describe it as an attack on NATO member and WW3
would be imminent. If Putin decided to shot down Israel jets, it would
be a problem as well, because the official narrative is, that S200
downed IL20, not Jewish missiles.

Conclusion. Israel (and their vassal, US intelligence in Pentagon) orchestrated pretext for WW3.

1691

Your conclusion is spot-on.

Merijn

Yeah just another USS Liberty….to be continued

Manuel Flores Escobar

Could be another theory…French vessel thought that the 4 jets ( without transponder and flying low near them) were a inminent danger for the vessel…and they launched ship to air missile…and one of them hit the Il 20….

Merijn
Val Shadowhawk

Thankyou!!!!

Merijn

My pleasure…:)

Ronald

Concur fully; and a bit to add, mostly unreported except by Israel’s Haaret.
There were 5 or 6 British war birds flying in a holding pattern near by, with the unusual item being their transponders were turned on.
If Russia had taken the bait and hit the French ship, these war birds were ready to take out radar, then the attack.

zman

Absolutely. This was an ambush, plain and simple.

d'Artagnan

Ambush or not, it showed Russian incompetence at its worst. What type of an ELINT aircraft can not tell if 4 F-16 are shadowing it? Putin’s muted response will not auger well for Russia. Putin even banned state funerals for the 15 dead Russians. It is quite sad.

zman

You need to view the video Konashenkov put out. The event is not as you portray it. Try again.

zman

I cannot find any such reference re: banned state funerals for 15 dead Russians. Please show us this.

Tommy Jensen

People who claim Israel´s involvement are anti-semitic, holocaust deniers, selfhating Jews, Zyklon B lovers, closet Nasis, fake news trolls or Iranian terrorists and should be arrested for stirring up hate speech.

Ronald

Ask yourself, were Israeli jets firing on or near the Russian airport just as the Russian plane was landing. Israel has not denied it was.
Israel was involved, absolutely, but it was not the only nation.
Truth is hard to hide, but you trying to be funny.

potcracker777

hey tommy you satanic jew prick of a human…i wish i could meet you ona remote island u dirty filthy satanic jew prick.

d'Artagnan

Actually, Zionists are fake Jews and nothing to do with reality or the truth. Hollywood creation at its worst like the fake holohoax.

frankly

“Russian should be convinced, that Israel and France are performing
attack on Khmeimim Airbase, so they were forced to send IL20
immediately, before Syrian PVO was informed.”

Looked up PVO not much help. What is that? Also what did the Russians send the IL20 to do? Get in the way? I thought it was ASW.

Neno Jovanovic

Let me remind everyone that Russian MoD data clearly shows that IDF F-16s, fired from behind Il-20 on targets on the ground, then deliberately used Il-20 as cover from SAA Air Defence.

Hisham Saber

The Saker is an apologist for Jews/Zionists. He is also always reminding us that the almighty Jews are very powerful in Russia, which they are not. What?! Putin does not concur with his Minister of Defense, who layed the blame firmly at Israel. Or is it the weakling and always hopeful Lavrov who is going against the Russian MoD. Either way, Israel needs to pay for causing the deaths of 15 Russians and frequently bombing Syria, in order to sabotage any progress made by Russia and Syria.

Anything else would be looked upon as a serious sign of Russian weakness.

d'Artagnan

Putin is in collusion with the Zionists and has disregarded and downplayed Russian loss of life. It is shame that Zionists have so openly humiliated Russia and got away Scott Free!

Val Shadowhawk

Good summary!!! Agreed!

John

Nonsense.

telemetrie

pretty consistent with my own theory…

gustavo

There is not way France to shot down that Russia plane, point, it is just senseless.

Tommy Jensen

Doesnt matter. Israel and Killroy was there, yes or no?

Spit

To the person Who Wrote This Article.
I think there is something much bigger going on shootdown is Not at all what it seems, I will not insult Your Intelligence and assume That You have figured it out.

Robert McMaster

The Saker is an outstanding technical analyst but has no political understanding at all. When Isreal shoots down a Russian warplane and the Russians do nothing patners, allies, parties and regular people rightly lose confidence in the the integrity of Russia. It looks like the usual scheming, duplicity, wheeling and dealing, betraying we have come to expect from the U.S. and Europe. That these powers have no principals, cannot be relied upon, are two-faced and hypocrits. When Russia is seen as not standing up for itself in such a situation it is easily thought they will not stand up for you. Though they have promised to do so. The cost of disheartening Russian supporters and sympathizers is beyond measure. Putin is degraded to just another lying politician.

The Saker is so busy being tricky and as Wise Guy he forgets that keeping faith with the mass of the public is the foundation of all support. In a time when all other statesmen have not and are paying the price for it. Whack Isreal sharply. Be seen to do it. Stand tall and pay whatever is the price. This will be inspire Russian confidence and dismay its enemies. Stand firm but quietly for what you said and be seen to do so. The rewards politically, from the base, will be most avaluable. Screw the rest.

Promitheas Apollonious

Only to the unthinking ones who never manage to put the dots together. Those people dont matter to the bigger picture. Ilotes or modern tax payers. They never matter. Are just the slaves, that throw a party, every time they change master.

Robert McMaster

Agreed. But on a larger scale they are still the biggest power on the planet. Whenever they suck it up.

Promitheas Apollonious

In theory they may be because you thinking numbers and the worst of all is people who think numbers they also think every one feel and judge base on their morals and principles so they dont feel alone. But western system, has manage a very long time ago to make every one individuals and not groups united with one policy and one face.

So no they are not the biggest power on the planet slaves who think are free and fighting day to day survival they never powerful never have a voice, but like to think so, they do. If what you say was practically true and it was each for itself, then what is happening on earth the last centuries at least would have never happened. So people dont have the power that comes from been united and of one mind, especially since they teach all their first god to be money, with funny pictures on them and a number.

Snowglobe

” So people don’t have the power that comes from been united and of one mind,…”.

Remember that you said that.

Promitheas Apollonious

no moron and stop always your low IQ. People as you never have the power, or ever will and show me once ever in history that had it. As for united…….. I told you stop medicating yourself. Only a fool and retard as you proved to be do what you do.

Promitheas Apollonious

showing your low IQ is becoming a habit with you isn’t it. Been an american must have something to do with and eating shit all the time by now must have reached your brain so you full of it.

People they are not united and is fact especially in america. So hypothetically people can unite but point me out one time they been united as one mind.

Now fuck off and dont bother me again with your stupidity.

Snowglobe

…and could you please stop acting like a box of rocks.

(I apologize in advance to all boxes of rocks, it is not my intention to offend you.)

There was no need for another one of your verbal diarrhea posts. It does not matters how many words you use, you rarely make any sense. Since I know that English is not your first language, I will extend a little bit of patience and courtesy.

remember what you SAID.
remember what YOU said.
remember WHAT you said.
REMEMBER what you said.

Pick one of the versions above that makes it through the grey fog, write it on a little piece of paper, and stick it on the edge of one of your computer screens.

The day is coming that you will eat your stupid words. Now go ahead and block me but know that when the day comes when you see what I am talking about…know that I am laughing at your dumb a$$ princess.

Promitheas Apollonious

moron I told you I dont block mentally challenged posters just because they are americans and single digit IQs.

As for offending me……… I dont get offended from over self medicated morons. I suggest strongly you seek medical help and you have make me curious, to a point, so I humor you to see what else you going to come up with in your disturbed single cell.

Why you think are you so important because I humor you and answer you back? As for the princes part that be the one who did not jerk you off and it appears the apple in your case did not fall far from the tree.

Snowglobe

I wasn’t worried about you. I was concerned that I might offend a box of rocks. :-P.

For the fiftieth time moron. I do not smoke, drink, or do drugs. If you consumed a little less of them you might be able to remember things.

Promitheas Apollonious

ok now I believe you. you dont smoke , you dont do drugs and you dont drink. You sure sound like one who dont do all this things.

Explain me your hallucinations then moron.

Snowglobe

Hallucinations? Is that what you are call the fact that I am aware of all of the horrible things that you say and do? Hallucinations? LOL!!!

Now I understand why you smoke, drink, and do drugs.

grumpy_carpenter

“The Saker is an outstanding technical analyst but has little political understanding at all. When Isreal shoots down a Russian warplane and the Russians do nothing partners, allies, parties and regular people rightly lose confidence in the the integrity of Russia.”

In real terms what would a revenge attack gain for Russia?

Have you ever considered that these provocations against Russia were to get them into a kinetic war? Think about who has the advantage fighting in the ME. Russian forces in Syria would be able to do a lot of damage to NATO forces in the hours they have before being wiped off the map but they are vastly outnumbered in naval and air power in the ME. Even the S-400 runs out of missiles eventually.

1. Russia has the ability to destroy the USA / NATO strategically ….. but that means Russia also gets bombed back to the stone age. No one wins WW3.

2. Russia has the conventional strength to defend the Russian homeland but not to project power. The only way Russia can avoid defeat in a conventional war outside their borders is to go strategic which brings us back to #1.

Russia is just coming off a disasterous century. WW1in which they took the greatest casualties of any nation, revolution that resulted in sanctions and isolation until WW2, civil war that was even more destructive than WW1, flight of capital after the revolution, WW2 in which they suffered immense casualties, cold war arms race that bankrupted the country, last the 1990’s which was like the great depression on steroids. They’ve only just gotten back on their feet.

Russia is tough but I don’t think any Russians want to add nuclear war to this list of disasters. Give Russia another 15 – 20 years and they will be militarily untouchable but right now the USA would like nothing better than to lure Russia into a disasterous war that will annihilate them once and for all.

Russians are strategists. Good strategists choose the time and place of the battle ….. poor strategists let the enemy dictate the time and place to fight. Right now the best strategy for Russia is to keep their cool and not be goaded into a fight they can’t win.

Think Ali – Foreman 1974. Putin’s the one doing the rope-a-dope on the USA, wispering in their ear getting them angry, making them punch harder while he conserves his strength, builds his forces and keeps his eye on the mission objectives in Syria …. which are to kill Chechen terrorists in Syria, save Russian friendly Syria from jihadists while staying out of a wider war.

IMHO

“In real terms what would a revenge attack gain for Russia?”
Revenge attack is not the issue. A revenge attack would lead to a real war as you say, although I think you over rate the possibility of Nuclear war.
But the issue is that Russia had 4 jets on their radar and one of Russia’s jets went down. The time for Russia to respond was right then yet they did not. A strike on attacking jets is way different than a “revenge” attack.
What remains to be seen is what will Russia do on the next Israeli attack? At this moment it appears they will do nothing seeing as how they are “Re-coordinating” with Israel so that FUTURE Israeli attacks will not cause such “accidents”. Aka Israel will continue to attack Syria with Russia’s approval.

zman

If one considers this to be an ambush, and not just Israeli manipulation of an agreement, then an immediate response is just what the west desired. A knee-jerk reaction is not the Russian way, more a measured, deliberate and result led action is more likely. Why must revenge be immediate, especially if that was the intent of the incident? In that case, the west’s strategy wins. Did Russia accomplish what they have in the last 3 years by doing things the way the west does them? Why start now?

IMHO

The problem with that assessment is that you are saying Putin and his generals lied when they said any attack on Russian facilities or military would result in the destruction not only of the attacking aircraft/missiles but also the place where they originated.

You keep saying “revenge” but that would not be revenge, IT would have been DEFENSE. It definitely would not be considered a “Knee Jerk” reaction.

Revenge is when you retaliate, in ANY way, after the fact. And now, AFTER the fact, any retaliation would be revenge. And we have already agreed that revenge is what will cause a real war.

Russia and Putin have discredited themselves and after this any attack by Israel can definitely be considered a threat to Russia’s assets and Military personnel. Yet instead of making it clear that the time of attacks with impunity are over, they instead are insuring that further attacks are guaranteed.

I would not be surprised though if in the near future an Israeli jet will be shot down(but the pilot will survive) so that people will have a reason to further believe this ruse.

Ronald

Maybe not considered knee jerk by you, as Russia was aware that this was a trap puts it into a different perspective.
As the US reacts emotionally, Russia prefers to act logically.
Defensive action includes seeing and understanding clearly the present reality, and that includes sidestepping blows about to be thrown.
A foe who’s action can be predicted, can be beaten.
Putin is that foe who’s actions can not be predicted, and is the reason he has saved us all from the consequences of a larger war.

Concrete Mike

Finally !! Someone gets it.

Russia is doing a great job deflecting and absorbing these provocations.
I know some good men maybe women died in this incident. I should call it a trap really. Thank god russia didnt take the bait, losing 15 guys is better than losing 15million.

Oh but they say, russia is losing face, prestige. How can you lose face when the people your dealing with (the west) already hate you and dont beleive anything you say anyway.
How can you lose face to someone when this person (entity) is irrationnal, out of touch with reality.

How can you lose face when everybody treats you with the utmost contempt all the time???

We got a vanity problem out here i think. Im guilty as well.

Sorry for ranting a bit..l

watcher12

Hi grumpy, thank you for the sensible analysis. There is something missing though and it may be a shortcoming but could also be short sightedness on the part of the Russians. Since the west is so good at coalitions (was it a US corp plane that killed the russian contractors and previous to that the syrian military just as the terrorists were doing an attack?) why not invite some Russian coalitions forces airplanes into Syria (who would these be?) even one or two – and be sure they are mentioned when doing some attack on behalf of the SAA. Then when a Member of the coalition makes a mistake and destroys a US or Other building or fort – OOPS it was a mistake of one of our coalition forces, we are so sorry!!!. This is the part that is missing – terrorists have proxy forces that take the blame – Russia does not! Hey even have a single jet from Venezuela there if need be, just make it a coalition. Provide Hezbollah with a few jets, whatever. Spread the errors and come out smelling a little sweeter. A coalition member could mistakenly bomb the Israeli air base, OOPS bad missile!

Robert McMaster

That it would tell the rest of the world that Russia is not led by Neville Chamberlain.

grumpy_carpenter

So taking an example from the same era you believe Russia would be better off acting boldly like Hirohito did when he attacked Pearl Harbour …… he sure taught the Yanks not to mess with the japanese didn’t he?

I wish we lived in a world where all you had to do to be a great strategist was to thumb through your middle school history book and do what they did unfortunately we don’t.

grumpy_carpenter

So staying with our early WW2 world leaders theme how about if Putin acted aggressively and responded kinetically to provocation like Hirihito did when he attacked Pearl Harbour in response to US sanctions? How did that work out for him?

The bottom line is despite the lessons of your middle school history text Russia under Putin is achieving it’s political objectives in Europe and Syria despite being aggressively opposed by the vastly richer, better armed NATO with more than 10 x the population and an order of magnitude more money than Russia.

Robert McMaster

Writng as an acdemic historian The pre war U.S. did not make provocative attacks as Isreal has. U.S. sanctions are strengthening Russia. The Russian military is far superior to the Americans. The U.S. and Europe are deteriorating at a rapid rate, are bitterly divided internally, crippled by debt and don’t make much any more. Russia and China and the rest of the world can get along very well without them. And they are rapidly moving to do so. Rising sun. Setting sun.

Ray Douglas

The rest of the world is depending on Russia to save us from the most evil empire since the British empire. I wish them well but they have to take a stand and not be a doormat for the Jews.

scott_ewing

This is ‘Geopolitics’.

This is NOT – ‘Professional Wrestling’.

Robert McMaster

Sure, but part of that is not disheartening your allies and friends who come to feel they cannot count on Russia.

Plato

What was the French input to all of this?
Chercher la grenouille!

scott_ewing

“What was the French input to all of this?”

That’s what I’d like to know too.

Sinbad2

Casualties happen in war, if the allies change direction every time they take a hit, FUKUS will win this war.
The allies are staying the course, victory is at hand, now is not the time to be diverted by the little fish(Israel)

Promitheas Apollonious

in this case is not israel, is nato and israel. The rest I agree.

chris chuba

I’m certain that this is true but the root cause of the loss of this aircraft is that Israel, more specifically Netanyahu, in his arrogance normalized the idea that you can attack any building you want in another country, a country with multiple air forces present. Of course the targeted country is going to defend itself and bad things are going to happen because bad things are already happening because of the unlawful attack.

Sadde

Do we know that the sun actually goes up tomorrow just because it has done so every day in billions of years? No, we don’t …
(who cares about empirical evidence?)

christianblood

(…If the Russians conclude that the Israelis cannot be trusted to abide
by any agreements (which I think is indisputable), then I think that the
Russians should declare an air exclusion zone over the Russian forces
(a 100km radius or so). I also think that it is high time to keep a pair
MiG-31BMs on 24/7 combat air patrol high over Syria (they can come
quite close to replacing a much more expensive and vulnerable A-50U
AWACS)…)

Exactly right!

Merijn

Saker….Remember USS Liberty… of course the ZioNazis planned this Whole Operation that is where these intelligent Cockroaches are good at…they Want WWIII… to have the Messiah come and pick them up…Putin & Erdogan just made an agreement concerning Idlib…which neutralized for a large part Escalation in Jihadistan… the Threat of a Staged Chemical Attack by White Helmet Headchoppers dissapeared…and an all out War prevented on the short term…IsraHell did not like that and sent a couple of Planes to Drop Bombs on Syria which they already had done many many times before…Where do these Bloody Rats think they got the Right to Bomb Syria in the First Place???!!!! Syria is a Sovereign Country….IsraHell knew for a Long Time Chances were that Russians would be Killed somewhere in Time…if they kept Bombing Syria… Again IsraHell wants WWIII to start…. Together with The U.S. & The UK….their Brothers in Crime…they used the IL-20 as cover because they knew the that the IL-20 with its huge Radar Cross Section (RCS)…would be the Target now…It is preferable that the Goyim dies first in a situation like this…אז בואו ניקח מכסים…

seawolf

Saker please explain to us this, RFM Mr Soigu immediately blamed Israel for the incident, where Putin afterwords cleared Israel, why Putin was so quick to clear Israel?

gustavo

It looks like Putin is either jew or pro-jew (in iny case, an Israel avassal) .

Ray Douglas

Putin has been rolling back the western influence on Russia and has to move carefully. There are some great videos by Evgeny Fedrorov explaining how Putin is gradually getting the Rothschilds banking gangsters out of the system. Don’t forget Russia was completely conquered in the 1990’s and is only starting to show signs of recovery even though it is subject to sanctions by the Rothschild empire of Israel. What he should do is just shoot the fuckers.

zman

I must have missed that. What I read was that the Kremlin fully backed the statement by Shoigu.

Ronald

Military men speak in military terms, Putin being the diplomatic negotiator speaks in diplomatic terms. I am certain he knows these “partners” just tried a provocation, a trap to get Russia to respond foolishly.

His wisdom in not falling for their bait saved Syria from a massive strike.
He may have to eat humble pie, and be called weak, but his turn will come.

Neno Jovanovic

Oh really fvck you Saker. I was in military and stopped reading this after your supposition that Israelis fvcked up by accidentally giving ONE MINUTE to Russians to land the Il-20 that they could clearly see on their radars. You shity little cunt!

IMHO

Aside from the language I agree. There is no way that the ONE MINUTE warning was a mistake. Plausible Deniability does not work in this scenario.

zman

Yes, this ‘excuse’ does not fly…The ‘deconfliction’ agreement is not some half-assed, half enforced protocol. It is designed to prevent such as incident. Thusly, it is a paramount device for safety, not some softly worded notion. Couple this with the French firing missiles (then immediately denying any involvement?) and then reports of British planes in a holding pattern (as if waiting for a signal)? Pardon the hell out of me, but I call this an ambush. How do they think the Russians will see this? Yes, accidents do happen in times of great tension. So does treachery…and this clearly looks like such. What will Putin do? God knows and I’m glad not to be in his shoes. For the last 3 years, he and the Russian military have staved off many provocations and have prevailed, because they adhered to their own plan and not being goaded into a corner. Bravo! Now that the west is truly desperate and trying to instigate a reaction from Russia that would play into their hands, is he to throw away his successful strategy now? What I do know is that his strategy has preempted the west’s desires for an expanded war, which would benefit only them. To abandon this and basically make this incident successful (for the west), would be a mistake. I say let Putin do what he does best …serve a nice cold dish of revenge at the right time, at the right place and at the right entity.

Ronald

I take my hat off to Putin for not falling into this set up. It is not to be forgotten that the FUKUS, have an armada sitting waiting for the White Helmets next “thriller”, itching for the excuse to launch. When Putin and Erdogan released the statement concerning their agreement of a no military zone, they went to plan B, this trap.

frankly

So went and followed Neno’s profile. He has three posts in total, 3 months apart. All full of nasty language aimed at the Saker. For me the Saker’s credibility just soared. As you well know it was pretty high to start with. A bot.

Neno Jovanovic

Total of 3 posts related to Saker and all that he wrote? Yeah, I am definitely after him to destroy him. Read what he wrote, and if you have any military experience, or knowledge, about how radars work, and what it means that you warn someone one minute before firing on targets. What did they expect for Il-20 to teleport to its base? It is obvious set up. Il-20 was destroyed to escalate situation that was just defused emensly by Putin-Erdogan deal on Idlib, hours before Il-20 went down.

al quaida

There is the possibility that the Israelis thought it unlikely that the Syrian air defense would fire missiles with a Russian plane so close.

Neno Jovanovic

No. Because SAA doesn’t have friendly/for recognition tech. SAA didn’t know that Il-20 was there, usually there is no Russian planes in the air at the time of attack, because Russians had warning to land in all previous cases. This time warning came one minute before attack, that is same like not giving it at all.

al quaida

But the SAA would have seen the Il-20 on their radar, and they would have been informed that the Il-20 was doing recon, so I think they did know it was there.

frankly

So why do you want to destroy Saker, do you know where he lives, should he fear for his life? As to your comments you can swear all you fucking want, why don’t you start making some logical fucking sense, instead of repeating nonsense?

You are a strange little creature. So what was it the Russians saw on their radars? So Israel broke the deconfliction agreement by not calling ahead of the attack, should Russia start WW III to punish them?

I tried to see your other comments to get a sense of what you believe, your only serious concern seems to be that Saker should be destroyed. I personally think he’s great, should I die too?

Neno Jovanovic frankly • 32 minutes ago
“Total of 3 posts related to Saker and all that he wrote? Yeah, I am definitely after him to destroy him. Read what he wrote, and if you have any military experience, or knowledge, about how radars work, and what it means that you warn someone one minute before firing on target, instead of usual 30min, you would know what Russians have seen on their radars and are repeating since day one. What did they expect for Il-20 to teleport to its base? It is obvious set up. Il-20 was destroyed to escalate situation that was just defused emensly by Putin-Erdogan deal on Idlib, hours before Il-20 went down.”

Neno Jovanovic

Are you stupid or what? My 3 posts that you find about saker, contra everything that he ever wrote, can not destroy anyone. It was my sarcastic comment on your idiotic conclusion that my goal is to destroy someone. No. Even idiots can see that if I want to destroy someone I would be posting on all of his post and multiple times. No. I don’t even read what he writes and advise others to do the same. Why? Because his conclusions and insinuations are clear after reading just first paragraph of his writing, and I commented on it here. That is it.

frankly

Your only reason for having a disqus account is to trash The Saker. You have no other comment or opinions about anything. Yet you can honestly say “I don’t even read what he writes and advise others to do the same.”

Saker’s comments in this article predict your behavior exactly, so he understands you exactly. But maybe I am stupid, as I cannot follow your logic, but can follow the Saker. So I will read him and his blog with all the fascinating and understandable contributors to it. Start to finish, over and over. But you, another ignorable twat.

It’s like Trump being hated by the MSM. What little I know of him the fact that they hate him gives me respect. Same here, your hate confirms my faith in Saker’s opinions.

So yeah I have heard the sound of a Russian radar when it shifts from search to locked on, it is quite a nerve rattling experience to know they have you, visceral only partly describes it. So sure in your panic to evade jump behind a sitting duck, why not? It would not be the first nor the last Israel to hear that sound before dying.

Have just about used up my patience with posting to whatever it is you are. You put together logic like a white house press secretary more comfortable on her knees than speaking to an audience. So fuck off dick breath, go back to mommy and suckle that rotten teat till what’s left of your brain drains into your stomach and your eyes collapse.

Ricky Miller

Yet here you are, reading his material and commenting on it. So, off you should be then. On to your own greener pastures and churning out your own views on a site way up your alley.

Boris Kazlov

The reason I post here is that I would not be allowed on Saker’s site, he is quite tyrannical about it.
Every time I post something it does not get published, I have also been banned like several others for no good reason, just for suggesting that he should not be recklessly banning let and right

wwinsti

I agreed with the Saker’s earlier post on the subject of an investigation in as much as the Israelis had to be given a chance to get it right behind closed doors. I differ on the topic of what the Russians know. I’m confident that all the relevent radar tracks have been studied and evaluated by all the appropriate experts on Putin’s side of things
.
This has already afforded the Russians a fairly comprehensive picture of what exactly occurred that fateful night of the shoot down. In fact, the whole purpose of an Israeli delegation bringing their own investigative results isn’t to establish any unknown fact at all (the Saker’s position). Rather, it’s to give the Israelis a chance to tell the truth about what actually happened.

There’s no pressure behind closed doors because the Russians were so quick to adopt the official narrative. The Israeli b*tt is covered here in other words, fear of blood encrusted secrets or the ever precious Israeli public image cannot be a factor
True, we might not know what really happened, but the Russians have a clear idea of:

When the shoot down occurred.

Where the Israeli planes were during the attack.

When the Israelis gave warning and what that warning was.

What missiles were fired and by whom.

So all the Israelis have to do to not ***k up is- show up and give a presentation that comports to reality as the Russian MoD knows it, in secret no less, with assurances that the Russians won’t change the story in public at least.

-Not an easy thing to ***k up really.

Well Saker, guess what?

The Israelis ***K3d up.

https://www.haaretz.com/amp/middle-east-news/report-russia-rejects-israel-s-findings-on-downed-russian-jet-over-syria-1.6492645

That’s right, the Russians showed them the door and told them to come back when they have a REAL investigation.

So what does it all mean? It means the Israeli agenda cannot fathom any advantage to having their narrative disrupted in the slightest. They would rather spout lies right in front of the people who could turn Israel into a crater.

That is some agenda!

.

Manuel Flores Escobar

Saker should read what happened with the USS Liberty..also what happened in the attack vs King David Hotel….Jews like Turks are not clean wheat…no trusty people….Israel are serving the US Deep State and US military-industrial complex..rival of the Russian!.. while Turkey is a member of NATO and have Otoman dreams….therefore Russia should say ” El que manda..manda y pistola en el cinturon”..translate Spanish to English…more or less means.. to command and be respected..you have to show strength!…

javier

I usually like the sakers work but yes it does seem to be the same old bullshit. He didn’t even mention the likely possibility that this was done by the jews or the french vessel in an attempt to create a huge rift between russia and the populations of france and or israel. Putin and company knew this and immediately went with the US lie that the syrians did it by mistake. Judo ! Note the immediate denial by france when it hadn’t even been accused, almost like it was scripted. A big split between western europe and russia is the atlantacists wet dream. And in the process a very advanced awacs plane with people with years of experience was taken out and it was a probe to see how the russians could compensate. So this a more like possibility than the msm version. Shame on saker for not even mentioning more obvious possibilities, kind of like sputnik or msnbc.

John Brown

Another apologist for Israel In this false flag attack.
Israel was hoping Russia would think it was the long awaited western zio missile attack, blame the French, sink the French frigate, which had launched some missiles, so the French would be another sacrifice for the Zio empire like the USSA Liberty was supposed to be and to get Western Zio slaves to fight for Israel in Syria, (like NATO did in Iraq, which would be a huge win for a greater Israel) once Russia sank the French ship.

Only due to the professionalism of the Russian military and the advanced technology of Russia was this plan foiled. Only once Israel realized this plan had been discovered, only then did they run to apologize.
The S-200 was fired at the Israeli F-16 earlier which drew the missile out towards the IL-20, then the F-16 kept the IL-20 in a line-of-sight between it and the missile, probably till the missile was out of range of identifying friend or foe, and the missile then used the heat signature to kill the nearest thing. The Israeli pilots knew that as the IL-20 with its huge Radar Cross Section (RCS) it would become the target for the S-200 missile. This false flag was planned because as part of the Russian Israeli de-confliction agreement, Israel was notified of this flight and its path well in advance.

The Saker is controlled opposition like Alex Jones.

Joe Cassese

Going forward:

Will Israel or any nation state not entered into a military nonaggression agreement with Syria and it’s allies continue to violate Syria’s international recognized borders without suffering the consequences?
Sanity vs Insanity

gustavo

Do you remember the attack that Israel made to USA-liberty ship where many northamerican people die ? what did USA do about this ? NOTHING, because of the jew lobby at USA. They (USA-jews and Israel) gave just some good excuse about this, at that was all. Well, the same will happen with Russia, nothing to worry about, every thing is controlled by jews.

Tommy Jensen

Have you thought of the possibility that Washington INSTRUCTED Israel to attack US-LIBERTY?
Like Washington INSTRUCTED Israel to make 9/11. Then it all make more sense.

gustavo

If you means by Washington the Jews lobby, yes of course. Otherwise, it is not possible.

Willing Conscience (The Truths

I agree with the Saker that it was Israel [and US] that green lighted Assad’s operation in Deraa/Qunietra, allowing for a speedy successful victory, but he should have also mentioned it was King Abdullah of Jordan who helped push the Israelis and the US into it.
Usually it’s the subservient King Abdullah towing the line for his US and Israeli financiers, but due to enormous pressure internally, he actually drove the cart instead of following the carrot for a change, and actually instigated the green lighting of Assad’s campaign, dragging both the US and Israel into it as well.
Of course it wasn’t out of the goodness of his heart, that would be too much to hope for, it was only due to his growing realization that apart from only one major difference, Jordan had most of the precursor elements domestically, that caused all the turmoil in Syria in the first place. The growing realization that the infection in Syria could spread to Jordan, was enough to make him stand up to the US/Israel, and put his own and Jordan’s interests first for a change. After all, even though he himself was the major difference between Jordan and Syria, him being pro US/Israel and Assad being anti US/Israel, that would be no guarantee that Jordan would be immune from the same fate as Syria if the Rebels were to win out there. I’ve never like him for helping to cause the turmoil in Syria in the first place, but I will give him credit for that green light he signaled to Assad, whatever he did to get the Israelis on board was nothing short of a miracle, and saved Assad quite a lot of grief.
As to the rest of the article I can’t say he’s wrong, it is quite possible, and with a lesser Airforce than the well trained Israeli’s, even probable, but I wonder why the Saker’s devoted a whole article to the subject. Proposing it as a possibility along with other explanations I’d understand, devoting a whole article to the subject and criticizing those that came to other assumptions only makes me worry.
I keep saying that the Sakers articles are nothing but trash, this ones no different, put it straight in the bin.
Some of my fellow commentators may be right about him being a stooge, I just thought he was stupid.

Ray Douglas

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, everyone is entitled to express that opinion, everyone is entitled to have a different opinion. To say that I or anyone who has an opinion on the Russian response does not make us Russia or Putin haters. I love Russia and wish them nothing but well. When not in possession of all the facts and other facets of intergovernmental goings on one can only give ones own opinion. This is not barred nor should it be. I do understand that there are people who just come on here to aggravate and make a nuisance of themselves and annoy others. I do enjoy the articles and the different opinions expressed. My opinion can change from day to day depending on how I interpret what happens so I may say something contrary to what I said yesterday. As regards Israel fucking up, I don’t think so. Their duplicity is fathomless and for Russia to give them a fools pardon would be stupid in the extreme.

IMHO

The Saker gives us reason to pause and reconsider. Reason to reconsider Sakers motives and goals.
Notice how he clouds the issue with his race baiting label of “Jew haters” that he attaches to and lumps us all into in an effort to turn disgust of Zionism and Israeli atrocities into Jew hatred. And now criticism of Putin is “Putin hatred”.
It must be an “ANGLO” conspiracy in his eyes.

Ishyrion Av

This event was not an accident, but an Israel plan to disrupt the Russian-Iranian-Syrian alliance in Middle East.
Probably.
And it failed miserably and it will backfire in ISrael’s courtyard…

Tommy Jensen

There is an Russian-US-Israel alliance against Syrian-Iranian-Hezbollah alliance. Turkey is just clowning around.
They all claim to fight ISIS but why are they all letting ISIS get away?

Vietnam Vet

“Anybody with any military experience will tell you that what is known in the USA as FUBAR, SNAFU and “cluster****” is something all militaries do on a daily basis” … having served in the U.$. military I can confirm this, and it applies not only to the rogue Israel military but also to the Syrian air defense including its Russian advisers. What often happens is that one small effup leads to another, to another, etc until a huge freaking mess happens, which could easily apply in this case.

The ongoing criminal attacks by Israel against Syria gain absolutely no military advantage. And what advantage was gained by intentionally causing the IL-20 to be shot down? None, apart from the usual howls regarding Russian “weakness”. No matter what else happens, you can be assured that this circumstance – an unaccompanied IL-20 being downed – will never be allowed to happen again.

And what advantages are there to Russia by striking back? None. Quite the opposite, escalation could – as it usually does – lead to unexpected consequences which I’m sure Russia wishes to avoid. Rather, despite the howling – Russia with its partners Syria and Iran continue to stay on the right track, slowly but surely destroying terrorists while ignoring futile provocations.

zman

I agree with you except that I very seriously doubt that this was a CF. This ‘deconfliction’ agreement is far too important to be throw around as if a mere detail. When the US did the same in Deir Ezzor, the Russians responded with taking out their intel assets in western Syrian caves. Who would look at this and conclude these were all just happenstance? When one adds in the actions of the French and likely collusion of the British, this looks like an ambush. Doubtless the Russians will look at it the same way. You are quite correct in my view, that it is important that Putin does not take the bait. Why change a strategy that is working very well? All the public calls for revenge are what the west is counting on, now that their initial plan failed. Putin HAS to respond. But how, when, where and to who he does respond is to his advantage. Putin cannot let this go unpunished…and won’t. The west has always paid a price for their treachery, even if the public rarely sees it.

Luutzen

It’s Putin ‘s decision to allow Israeli bombings on Syria that has caused this blow-back for Russian military.

Shoigu immediately said Israel did it. So, the Russian military are fine! Nobody denies. They also adviced Putin to supply s-300 or like to Syria.

But Putin refused.

Putin is being to trustworthy to Erdogan and Netanyahu.

Time for S-300 to Syria’s high command. They will know what todo.

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