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JULY 2020

The Coronavirus Liability Craze: Holding China Accountable

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Submitted by Dr. Binoy Kampmark

Politicians, as any political class, will nurse their favourite prejudice.  And when there is a crisis, those prejudices will be fanned and praised to the heavens.  For some politicians, who find the whole business of lockdowns and business restrictions all too much, someone has to pay for COVID-19.

Australian Senator Malcolm Roberts takes up the theme that is being pushed by assortment of talking heads across the pandemic infested world: “Should China pay compensation for unleashing COVID19 on the world?”  The answer is implicit in the question; intention and causality are assumed.

In the United States, Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley and New York Republican Representative Elise Stefanik introduced a bicameral resolution in March demanding a “full, international investigation”.  The resolution found “that the Government of the People’s Republic of China should be held accountable for the impact, of its decision to hide the emergence and spread of COVID-19, on the lives and livelihoods of the people of the United States and other nations.”  With an arrogance that tends to accompany the aggrieved, the drafters of the resolution also wished any such investigation to be led by public health officials drawn from the US and “other affected nations”.  Not that any conflict of interest was at stake: the US and allies were there to lecture the PRC about matters of liability.  “Simply put,” raged Congresswoman Stefanik, “China must, and will be, held accountable.”

President Donald Trump’s former deputy assistant secretary for policy and economic development is even more gung ho.  “Based on China’s culpability,” writes Gavin Clarkson, “President Trump and Steven Mnuchin should immediately extract reimbursement, starting with the $1.1 trillion in US Treasury Department bonds Communist China currently holds.”

In the land of the lawsuit, courts are already being busied by claims about Chinese impropriety and bungling.  A class action complaint was lodged in Florida last month “for damages suffered as a result of the Coronavirus epidemic”.  The accusation: that China and its various arms of government “knew that COVID-19 was dangerous and capable of causing a pandemic, yet slowly acted, proverbially put their head in the sand, and/or covered it up for their own economic self-interest.”  Such conduct had caused “incalculable harm” and injury “and will continue to cause personal injuries and deaths, as well as other damages.”

This brings that old hoary chestnut of sovereignty into play, and even those sympathetic to the argument that Chinese officials have behaved abominably find little room to overcome it.  The Foreign Immunities Act of 1976 protects, in the words of a federal court decision, “foreign sovereigns from the burdens of litigation, including the cost and aggravation of discovery.”  As the well-cited Queen’s Bench case of Mighell v Sultan of Johore (1894) put it, a sovereign could never waive immunity except through submitting to the jurisdiction of the court “by appearance to a writ.”

The Florida class action suit attempts to sidestep the obstacle of sovereign immunity by claiming an exception for commercial activities and for death and harm “caused by the tortious act or omission of that foreign state or of any official or employee of that foreign state while acting within the scope of his or her employment.”  Another ground is even more adventurous, and one floated by Israeli-based attorney Nitsana Darshan-Leitner: the fanciful argument that China’s conduct amounted to “support for terrorism”.  Deliberate concealment of “a deadly medical crisis” and concerted cover-ups were not among “the protected acts of a sovereign state or of responsible leaders.”

The neoconservative British-based Henry Jackson Society has taken an interest in the whole question of PRC liability, putting the claim in a report that China’s balance sheet of damages comes in at £3.2 trillion from G7 countries alone. “The People’s Republic of China (PRC) was bound by international law, in the form of International Health Regulations (2005), to report timely, accurate and detailed public health information.”  The PRC failed to do this throughout December 2019 and January 2020.  “In fact, it appears at least possible that this was a deliberate act of mendacity.”  (The authors seem to cast aside those common historical tendencies: negligence through error; damage caused by complacence.)  The report’s central sentiment is resentment: had the detection and sharing of accurate information taken place in good time, “the infection would not have left China.”

How this affected Britain is keenly felt.  “Inadequate and inaccurate information” from the PRC hampered the UK’s response.  Reliance was placed upon World Health Organization reports drawing upon faulty Chinese data claiming, at that point, that “there were no cases of medics contracting the diseases”.  Much of this is undeniable, but the authors are desperate to find a guilty culprit, one who will stand up and shoulder the blame.

The report, having reduced the issue of claimed Chinese malfeasance and the pandemic to a matter of Us and Them, err on the matter of “the rules-based international system”, always cited when things do not go the way of Western industrialised states.  Forgotten in such enthusiastic exhortations is the sense that such a rules-based system was imposed by the imperialist’s gun and statute book.  To preserve that system “and to protect taxpayers from punitive liabilities, the world should seek to take legal action against the PRC for the breaches of international law and their consequences.”

The report fits the current mood among a good number of British Conservatives who see China as needing a good clipping, wings and all.  A number of senior Tories, with former Deputy Prime Minister Damian Green leading a call, badgered Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a letter worried about the “damage to the rules-based system caused by China’s non-compliance with international treaties.”  As with the Henry Jackson Society, the letter underlined those “Legally binding international healthcare regulations [that] require states to provide full information on all potential pandemics.”  China, the petitioners claim, failed to abide by them, a grave omission that “allowed the disease to spread throughout with extraordinary serious consequences in terms of global health and the economy.”

Green was already ripe for persuasion, having suggested the adoption of an attitude towards the PRC “similar” to that towards Russia “in the more peaceful stages of the Cold War.”  A reconsideration of relations was required.  “Whatever your view of how well any Western government is handling the crisis it is clear that a deeper look at the long-term interdependence of Western capitalism and Chinese communism will take place.”

Compensation claims of this sort tread in murky waters.  Historical wrongs will be revisited and Chinese responses to such accusations and urgings are already being heavily referenced by Britain’s own ruinous exploits during what is termed the “Century of Humiliation”.  “Cool, great, you just pay us back for the Opium Wars,” came a Twitter comment, and not without merit.  As The Economist put it in 2017, “Britain and China see each other through a narcotic haze”, but it was a haze very much forced upon China at its moment of weakness.  That same year, President Xi Jinping, in an address in Hong Kong, that last outpost of British Empire, referred to a poisoned legacy that enfeebled a state.  “After the Opium War, China has been repeatedly defeated by countries which were smaller and less populous.”  There is little basis to assume that the PRC intends to acknowledge those, let alone be defeated by, the even smaller courts of those countries.

Dr. Binoy Kampmark was a Commonwealth Scholar at Selwyn College, Cambridge.  He lectures at RMIT University, Melbourne.  Email: bkampmark@gmail.com

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  • Lazy Gamer

    Only Americans would think that their judicial systems can hold other countries accountable. That is a worldwide jurisdiction. lol The proper forum between states, and this matter should be elevated, is with un bodies like the intl courts.

    • jm74

      When the US/Uk starts abiding by International Law then they can have a say, until then the should STFU.

      • Jens Holm

        Yeeerrh, everybody else do have wings and can fly to heaven themselves.

        I have a video camera up there. Allah and Gabriel are working hard putting concrite walls beteewn muslim groups up there, so they dont fight each other there as well.

    • Jens Holm

      I am afraid its not only Americans, which has that tradition by their Courts.

      • Lazy Gamer

        Pls cite other domestic cases where a STATE was sued. Even if the defendant or respondent were the leaders of a state, that still has no basis in intl. laws and customs but rather stems on its wilful violation.

        • Pave Way IV

          ABC (US) news: Iran ordered to pay billions to relatives of 9/11 victims
          By Aaron Katersky May 1, 2018

          …A federal judge in New York on Tuesday ordered Iran to pay billions of dollars to parents, spouses, siblings and children of more than 1,000 9/11 victims, court documents obtained by ABC News show.

          The default judgment issued by Judge George B. Daniels finds the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran are liable for the deaths of 1,008 people whose families sued.

          The lawsuit, which was first filed in 2004 and allowed to go forward in 2016 after Congress passed Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act to open sovereign states accused of terrorism to liability, alleged Iran provided assistance, including training, to the 9/11 hijackers even though the 9/11 Commission found no direct evidence of Iranian support…

          The article goes on to say that Iran didn’t respond and is unlikely to pay. What the article does not say is that all hundreds of millions in Iranian assets the US has been stealing/freezing illegally for years can be used or sold to satisfy the judgements. No basis in international law and customs required. I guess Epstein’s NY mansion (old Iranian consulate seized from them and leased to Epstein by U.S. Treasury Department) will go on the chopping block now. The Jewish National Fund (next door) is interested, and I’m sure OFAC will sell it to them for pennies.

          • AM Hants

            Even though Iran had nought to do with it? Surely they should be billing Bush, Israel and Saudi?

          • Jens Holm

            Its allowed to accuse like that. You are not guilty until its proved and the accusers has show its 100% true – Without doubt.

          • AM Hants

            What?

            5 dancing Israelis were not Iranian.

            Saudi is not Iran.

            Why was President Bush and family dining with their Bin Laden business partners, the night before 9/11?

          • Jens Holm

            There we go again. What I write is not even in Your mind as well as in language.

            You have a childs language in this as well as lawyers english.

            You are not able to comapre and abstract. You wrote I am as You write, because You understand the world I live in – And You hardly try.

            I have written here in big letters why none can send bills. Our court systems are not like raisong dogs and hens. .

          • AM Hants

            So are you saying 5 citizens from Israel were not arrested in New York on 9 September 2001, for celebrating the events of the day?

            Are you saying Saudi was not involved in the events of the day?

            Are you saying the Bush family were not dining with their Bin Laden partners, in Carlyle Group, on the 10 September 2001?

            Are you stating that Iran was responsible for the tragedy?

          • Jens Holm

            Thats allowed. But does it include Iran. I dont think so. If Iran gots convicted – will they pay. I dont think so.

            Our systems are not being axcused is guilty like it is in so many countries. We pay for lawyers for people having murdered.

            That might be too complicated for low brainers like You.

            But You off course is happy about it and the lawyers too.

          • Pave Way IV

            “But does it include Iran.” The lawsuit was filed in US courts against the Islamic Republic of Iran, the IRCG and the Iranian Central Bank. So: Yes. This should have made the news in Denmark in case your having trouble translating my reply.

            “If Iran gots convicted – will they pay. I dont think so.” It wasn’t a criminal case against Iran, it was a civil lawsuit – they were sued in US courts. ‘Conviction’ only applies to criminal trials in the U.S. Iran simply ignored the bogus trial and the subsequent, preposterous monetary judgement against them by the (((US Department of Justice))). Nobody expected Iran to pay anything – this was about the U.S. converting millions in Iranian assets (mostly seized/held in the U.S. decades ago) into U.S. property that the (((U.S. Treasury’s Office of Foreign Asset Control))) could ‘legally’ sell. They did. The only unbelievable part of this story is that 9/11 victims got anything. Israel usually has first rights to stolen Iranian assets in the US.

            The rest of the world would recognize this behavior as low-life, gutter criminal theft and resale of the stolen goods. Something usually associated with toothless, crack-head whores and behavior now proudly displayed by the (((US DoJ and OFAC))).

        • Jens Holm

          It typical in many version in countries having low tax for most things.

          We just see the most horrible things from USA because they are based on extreme behaviorisme.

          It might not be interesting for You but we have the opposite because the state by tax give You free hospitals and almost free medicine. If You are wounded in some % level, people get a sober monthly pay for the rest of their life as well as extra free cover for the damage done.

          Number ones is it doesnt mae a difference, who did it.

          So the damage done – in extra money – is by own extra insurrance pay or Your pension fond, which You probatly have. It fx could be a car incident and health dont cover car repair.

          And yes, You can sue for almost anything in systems like that. Behaviorisme is based on, what actually has happend. Lets say small children smallow small toys often – They do. If it happens many times – they make praesedens and make the law, so it cover all too small toy otr sign it forbiiden for smal children.

          The opposit is some laywers, scientist and maybee doctors, which by their knowledge make the lasw and coordinate with the rest of the laws.

          So in countries like USA A LOT of ruling is made by old cases, where things has happend.

          Convictions often has the same flexibility and can be done more or less random by the Judge. You can be ordered to paint a fence, visit Your Grandmother 10 times a year or being at a street corner with a sign saying: I am stupid and I will never drink too many bears anymore.

          Even the judges are told hard, they still use that people having jobs and behave normal are less punished then people with no jobs and fx a child not in the family for good reasons. If You are a soldier, You are a Hero and often get … minus 10%.

          We still use versions of Freud and understand the crimes from different angles, so we act and subtract.

          In USA You can add and subtract in a lot of cases but its mainly done in the smaller ones like : You started the fight, but You gave back in stead of running away calling the police. So the convictions might be 10 minus 6 = 4.

          Political Leaders often has an extra layer of protection. Number one is they are elected by the whole countrye, the laws and the constitution. Ypu cant just knock put the Leadership of a Country because of some accusations whenever they are real or fake.

          We have seen, where they are not protected. Political Leaders has been removed because they (might) be Gay as well as a marriged couple (might) sleep with someone else – Like Clintons.

          Its not illigal to be be outside marrige in USA, but in the other hand its not a respectfull wasy of doing, if You are a Potus. Moral hit him, but he wasnt removed.

          I will not give You countries. Its a matter of levels and graduated. Its more visible for USA because they have an open journalisme as well as so many dont wish them well.

          Some alos too often forget they are armed because they could not protect themselves in the states, they were deported or emmigrated from by political and religios reasons.

          But that was long time ago,so I also think they should truest the 52 single states much better.

      • Arch Bungle

        Examples?

    • AM Hants

      They have not even signed upto the international criminal courts, but, demand they obey the US.

  • jm74

    China in a small way are to blame for they should never had allowed foreign investments and researchers into China which they did in Wuhan. US scientists, researchers and especially Bill Gates were involved in research at the Wuhan biological lab and hence left themselves wide open to attack. Rather stupid and naive from China.

    • Ronald

      In a small way, the US in a big way.
      Backed by their own highest ranking scientists, the US National Academy of Science,
      has proven what Xi called “patient 0”, was American;
      https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117

      • Jens Holm

        Nobody should rely on that. There is not even data for it.

        I can do that too. “The Israeliens lander on the moon didnt crash. They now send green cheese form the backside from the moon to us”. and we buy and eat it, because they have changed the colot to yellow.

      • Ronald

        This study does not rely on numbers Jen, but then you don’t need to read studies.

    • Bobby Twoshoes

      It’s sad we live in a world where being decent is a flaw…

      • Jens Holm

        Thats how things are. Some actually try to be descent and even has been blamed for it.

        A very good danish one was we didnt defend us against the nazis at the WW2. But how could we. We were in the Chamberline mode working for peace and no weapons. I think it was descent compared to the results by WW1.

        Furthermore we were blamed after we didnt defend ourselves after the Germans with no problems has taken Poland, Hollan, Belgium, France and Luxemburg and GB was almost down too.

        And there Churchill being a bad warrior and even minister for the brittish navy having 1000s of causalties for his stupidity came in as a Hero.

        • Bobby Twoshoes

          How is capitulating to Hitler because you’re too weak to defend yourself being decent?

          • Jens Holm

            I dont think I wrote like that.

            I wrote the Chamberlain line trying to work for peace and understanding, and only guns for self defence, was a descent move.

          • Barba_Papa

            Even the French who had joined Chamberlain in going all appeasement still held out for 6 weeks against the Germans, and they have been made mercilessly fun off as surrender monkeys ever since. While the Danes folded quicker then wet paper. If this wasn’t a case for self defense I don’t know what else.

          • Jens Holm

            France also today are at least 10 times bigger then Denmark as well as they got in 200.000 brittish infanterists.

            The French amred forces got so many Francks for equipment and training, so they had to send billions back to the Goverment telling, they didnt need any more.

            The dansih forces at that time had maximum 30.000 armed soldiers hardly having any canons.

            Descent or not ir was realisme. It was decided by Our Goverment and parlament, that it was a descent and more important thing to stay alive.

            There is no honor being killed for nothing and some Iron in Norways as well as Germans figthing GB.

            I was not even born then but I do see it as descent people at least should die for something.

          • Barba_Papa

            If they were not willing to fight and die to defend your country from a foreign invader then when or what the fuck were they willing to die for? The Dutch army had suffered similar neglect, except for a tiny sliver in the south we didn’t get Allied reinforcements either and we fought. The way I see it Denmark’s strategic situation was a hell of a lot better then the Netherlands or France because its border with Germany was a relatively small isthmus. And if need be the Danish army could have retreated to the isles. It’s not like the Germans had this massive amphibious capabilities and its paratroopers were needed in Norway. You could have held out, chose not, then gave yourself a participation trophy on how rational and smart you guys were for not fighting.

            If Denmark had held out for a couple of days the whole German planning for the invasion of Norway could have been derailed, allowing the Allies expeditionary army there more time to consolidate and take on the more isolated German paratroopers. It might have faltered. With the allies in control of Norway the whole course of the war would have been different, as Germany would have lost access to Swedish iron which it needed to build its panzers. People could have sung songs about the brave Danes, true descendants of the ancient Vikings, whose sacrifice bought crucial time that helped defeat Germany. Instead we got Danish surrender vikings.

            There is EVERY honor in fighting to defend your home and none in surrendering without a fight. It saddens me that the Netherlands only held out for 5 days. But then I think of Denmark and how the Germans expected us to cave in just like them within 1 day so I guess we didn’t do so bad. On the plus side you guys did resist the Holocaust very well and allowed most of your Jewish population to escape to Sweden. So at least one deserved participation trophy for that.

          • Jens Holm

            I just told You how it was.

            And yes the danish situation also was very different from the Dutch one.

            WW1 and WW2 was not our war. Denmark, Norway and Sweden was neutral in WW1 and hoped to be that in WW2 as well.

            DEnmark was not tkaen as hostile. The Nazis needed cover against GB, Tey needed no GBs into the Baltics. They want first class iran by the Norweigian coast to Germany. The wanted to take Russia from noprth and East(Murmansk – Finland).

            We had very good relations to Germany, but not the Nazi part in import and export. More important might be we voted Our new borderli´ne to them after WW1 in a fair election and only took the danoish speaking bck to Demark.

            OUt of context it should be exact the same for Eastern socalled Ukriane. Those 2-3 provinces should be alowed to vote them themselves back to Russia.

            The price for no war in WW1 was a trade between Germany and GB. We had to make defence lines a la a very big small Magninot fortification and minefields at the sea, so the Britts (also) could not go in and take us.

            Therefore both and mainly Germany was able to transport things by sea ea, but Brittish warshould not be able too. We actially had a navy for those narrow paddages.

            Danes has been in the middle since about 1500 between big and small, so we know the drill to stay bending with the wind bein and by that has been almost our own more then 1000 years.

            If You compare with Holland, You have to add Belgium, Luxembourd, FRand and the not united Germany.

            Those mainly has being their own Regions then their own countries being in opposition to the big ones. By that a lot has been aboput being more or less Autonomies and Countries.

            It makes no sense to say “Ther Dutch defended themseleves even they did. Its tempting ro compare with what happend durig WW2 with Holland. Germans killed so many, the land was plundred, so they starved to death. Hardly a single Jew was after that.

            Germany also didnt attack Holland beacsue of Holland. They attacked Holland and Beligium to move French and Brittish troops into a very big trap and open for the unique “blitzkrieg” and catch their troops. And they did. By that they could take the rest of France having no Brittish help.

            I will say it was more important what happend in Belgium and how a General Gorth saved the retreat for 300.000 Brittish soldiers against all order by the Brittis anmd French as well as very much the Belgium Governess not allowing them to.

            Denmark as well as the netherlans was no Israel being possible to defend anything. looding slowly by any honor and respect.

            Our way was try the best we could to avoid war by de escalating things after WW1. Here – as I reaxll it – Holland was neutrla as us with succes.

            To me its not a matter of being proud dead or alive but stay alive. Danes by that was not bombarded down an killed in 1000s and was no enemy until 1943, whre Germans took over 100%.

            We were a klind of tributs. Until then we could sell, what we could to Germany and in money we everytime got back 80%. Being vasals like that is seen many times before in hiostory. There is no pride in that, but You also are protected and often has no realitisc choice.

            To me being a hero often is very overrated. We had the same choise 150 years ago. GB and Napoleaon was in war. We then had too feed many Franch and Spanish troops here, but they were respected for protecting us from the Britts. They treated us well and they were not troops but an equal part of resting troops until Napolean needed them again.

            But when Napolean lost, the Briitish came back by Admiral Lord Nelson and Copenhafen in Fire was a test for the besy missies in the world with fire and guin powder. They also took Our navy which in those days were a small but first class. By that Drënmark went bankrupt in 1813. That was possible because of the Britts.

            So You have to see the big picture and add and subtract. i only make little sense to compare with Holland.

            You have to compare with the Nzis easy take Poland and FRance even assisted with 200.000 brittish troops.

            Denmark at that time could efford to have about 30.000 light armed infanterists and a good but very small navy.

            30.000 is less then 2 German panzer divisons which in its beast was 17.000 each all included.

          • Jens Holm

            It seemes as You are from another world and dont know what happend between WW1 and WW2 as well as You ignore, what the Germans just has done to Poland, France, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg and for the matter GB.

            You should read about it instead of commenting like that.

            The descensy was FOR danish not being killed by the nazis for NOTHING.

            It wasnt AGAINST nazis.

        • John

          I get your point Jens, worry not about it. It’s 2020 and we have this monkey on our back. The position from some is incredible for me. Within the last week there is a blurb about the CIA giving a very serious briefing on Covic-19 ………… IN NOVENBER 2019. So, how does that lead to blame on China for not acting accordingly in December 2019? The US knew exactly what this thing was and that will come out, along with other things, if this piece of master stupidity keeps rolling.

          The problem here for me is not what happened in the last century. It is what happened in the last year, which many in occidental halls of power want to just erase from history…….. already. Sorry ladies and gentlemen, that ain’t going to properly wash. My best to you Jens.

          • Jens Holm

            We see so many comments about things and we dont know if they are biased or not as well as who they represent.

            So we have to be very carefull. I also do see many many stories and not only the CIA version.

    • Jens Holm

      Thats upside down. We have opend up for chinese investments all over the world and they are now, where they are able to produce a lot very well in buy as well as sale even they for some years has been cheating.

      You obvios dont know anything about the ownerships in China. Westerns are not allowed to be owners there and hardly Co owners.

      Putting in even Bill Gates makes me laugh. Its rather stupid and naive by jm74 in its best and maybee joke of the day. Maybee You will win a bag of sand from Al Tanf.

      • jm74

        Keep up your rambling, good for a laugh.

        • Jens Holm

          Its in papers for the whole world.

  • Ilya

    A rapist only cares when their dick is bit off. Let em bleed out.

    • Jens Holm

      Thats after the crime. So what about before that. Should it be bit off before anything bad happens – for safety matters:)

      And killlings: Call in Jesus to leep people alive again…

      • Ilya

        Before that there is no crime. If you go about creating effects in response to an act that hasn’t happened yet, you’re just acting as a cause.

        Jesus’ miracle was of teaching, not bringing people back from the dead.

        • Jens Holm

          I know the miracles of Jesus was teaching.

          In a movie a saw a litlle girl cpuld not make knots on her shoes. The teacher, which also was a priest told her, that thats why Jeus had sandals.

          So I think we should joke about it too. Jesus also was a human only. It was decided by voting in Nicea 329 AC.

  • Bobby Twoshoes

    China reported it the day after they discovered it was human transmissible and these arrogant seppos made jokes about bats for a month. Not reporting is different to being ignored. Hopefully the Empire response of trying to use this as another excuse to impoverish their plebs and consolidate their corporations is the final kick in the teeth they need to shut them up permanently.

    • Jens Holm

      No, they didnt. The Doctor rapporting that was kept down and made shut up. A reason might be the Chinese didnt believe it would spread. None loves too show dirty loandry. But You are incorrect.

      The rest is far out. China is an Empire too. Its very impressing You can ignore that.

      • Ilya

        Sure, and the CDC keeps its discussions secret on covid, and refuses testing, as well as actively scuppering the search for the US patient zero. China is not the Borg, close but no. Some officials were crap, when the top realised the gravity of it they acted fast. When the heads of our societies found out, they did and are doing very little.

        • Jens Holm

          I will not argue about that. It makes no sense to blame this and that based on hardly any data but specualtions and assumptions.

          I see no secret not semilar to many other secrets. People and Goverments do that, which now and then even can be a done thing.

          To me its very much about a faster timetable for beeded acring, but I also see so many politicians ignore the spread being just as stupid as any chinese about it.

          Its well known for centuries, that if You want damage control, You have to act fast and well, so You at least are able to keep the sick well as well as treat the very sick ones as well as it goes.

          The blamers hasnt done that but told going to work and football is more important. In politics all critiseizers seemes to be in the political part, where people are free to pay for healtcare or not as they wish in the name of freedom.

          By that You often get a thin unorganized health care net, which not even can handle the hidden ones, which has paid a lot for insurrance against it.

          And once again. I dont blame the chinese. I do blame the ones not having their own house able to take care of big things well.

          I have written it before: USA will get Biden, but they really need Sanders and implementing Scandinaian thinking as well as it goes.

          We have a much better health care system for half of the price.

          We trust the state. People actually do what the politicians and doctors say. Seeing Trump its no wonder USA dont trust the Goverments and therefore took the right to be armed.

          .

  • Jens Holm

    It make no sense to blame China like that.

    Facts are so many country has no safe net for handling the usual comming influenzas and nasty ones like this. To any countries are like cars having no seatbelts, no airbags, no ABS, no safety cabine a.s.o.

    By that a lot of money are saved on the annual budgets for the countries as well as for the taxpayers. Thats what so many country see now.

    “It dont hit me” is the motto.

    And the damage control is very old and simple and also well known for most infections. Keep distance where You can. Keep the direct source extra clean – as here skin contact, sneesing and barefoot for barefeets.

    I can see it for my own Denmark. We had a late reacktion and got a lot of very ill people and many dead ones. But relative fast after that we have done the simple well known things, which not even need doctors.

    The Corona damage control was there and we have enough space on the hospitals to handle the really sick ones, where up to 80% dies – Those almost all are old already very sick ones.

    So the we have to choose and elect trusted politisians as well as a health care system big enough to give the best advices as well as for a period to handle those expected ill ones hit by nasty virus and bakteries.

    Thats what its all about.

    Several politicians blaming this and that should – if it was to me to decide – be removed and spanked hard.

    Honesty is to tell people: There is a great risk having a cheep health care system and keep the population in dark by low knowledge and dont care.

    Honesty also is to say, we again and gain has choosen to be late in fighting those infections well even they come again and again and again.

    Honesty also is that ignoring things fx here is: We dont care about old grandparents or “mine i alreadt dead”. Or production is more important like being on the speeader with no steer wheel even needed – We have no steer wheel.

    So dont blame the Chines only. Its probatly true their system of living makes those decieses, but I am sure the Chines now will try to improve the kind of compact living, they have there, bacause they now are advanced in those matters and have several tools for(or against) it.

    Any compensation is far out. Those Chinese or whoever it is have had no ability to change things.

    I can see see at old Danish maps we had a lot of qurantaine staions on smaller Islands. People know 500 years ago that decises from Africa, India, China, South America brought in things, where many died. And we see it on those Islads. There are graveyeards for hundreds and hardly a single stone.

    We see it right in this moment. Where people for good or bad reasons has a state not to trust people die in bunches, but they might die with a smile, because they saw their team winning at some important football match.

  • John

    Yeah, this is going nowhere, it may hang around or even intensify. The net result will be a further deterioration of Western influence upon the world. China will walk away and carve its own destiny while the occidentals drown in their own failures and of course, incredible piles of debt. I mean, who is going to believe a word said when sanctions we piled ever higher by some during this crisis, while their friends sat by and watched with a smirk. My take on this bullshit. Stay safe all.

    • Jens Holm

      Whats wrong with that. China also makes the cake to share bigger. Following Mao and the others for China still makes me puke.

      You still have so many hundred million chineses deserving better then that.

      I think You see it too mcuh as a competition. Might might be, but You should not forget it should be a right to be less poor for the poor.

  • hvaiallverden

    Ah… the blame game and an quick tour down the path of eh… covidocy or something like that.
    Where the mantra is, some hope you/I get it so they can jump up and down and yell, see you didnt belive and now you have it, yup, dunka dunka.
    I state that this CONvid 19 is an hoax, what I dont claim is that this deaths are an hoax, if you cant differentiate between that and the hoax issue, you have an problem, I dont, I dont belive the Gov or most of the so called “experts” for an split second, chapice, never ever, because, their track record, when you put them all into one basket is really close to just mumbo jumbo, and I dont even bother to go down the memory lane to tell you more, if you are wise, enough, you know what I mean, for the rest, go f…. your self.

    Corbett report: Lies, Dammed lies and Corona virus statistics.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1trzdmwR2M
    Amen to it all.

    Second, people are dying, I just read an horror story coming from an retirment home on Canada, ( one of the downside of having photograpic memory and a lively imagination is that once I see horible images, they stick, and sometimes, like this nightmarish event in Canada, I didnt read the entire story, because it was so bad it cuted deep into my soul and mind) the shere evil of this, the human suffering, the consequences of neglect and the missery it infliced, is jaw dropping, but it was just an pack of elders so whom the f…. cares, they where to die anyway, right.
    THAT is the consequencess of insanity, stupidty and downright evil, and also the effect of listening to mofo and polticians whom started this by going for the worst case senariou possible so they can justify the response, and people dies of it, and nobody cares but whines about an virus witch so far isnt even close to an ordinary flu, witch even I dont denie, but the poltics is way out of line and the effect is questionable.

    Third, then we have the congregation of belivers in the medical ind. whom thinks they know what they are doing, talking and educate, while I question their integrity and credibility and by just doing that, we are hammered, and on top of it, when I read articles I look for corelations, causations isnt my primary goal, like where it came from, etc, but how it works, what it do and where it does something and in that, I find very little and some of it is hughly contradictionary, and here comes the line I always use, when I look for issues, I look for inconsistencys, that, is what I read, the deaths, the virus, the composition of the virus, etc, to the effect, like Ox deprivation, etc, and how that works, and what can induse such effects.
    Thats why I dont even rule our 5G, the reason is frequencys and what that can do, and some, if not most have no knowledge of knows little and cant see what I imply when I say I dont rule that out, since everything, and I mean everything is waves, do you get that.

    I am always surpriced by the “belivers” and non-uh…. conspiracy peoples ability to throw everything/-one into one basket, and again, why, because of what some people write, people have always writen things that goes into all directios also into just nonsense, but to throw everybody into one basket is as far I am conserned, stupidity and an hall mark of gross ignorance, period.
    But, I am also aware of been labeled, from white ass nazi to Russian troll, but when I ask for something, anything spesific I never get that, only been lumped into an basket, and that tells me more about the acuser than anything else.

    Just tell us/me where we are wrong, so I can come up with something more spesific, but again, I initialy didnt bother to go into the deepth with this eh… epidemic if it wasnt for the gross level of inconsistencys, I am not shure most of you really understands that, I think most dont, but I dont write coments for this people anyway, I write because I tell what I think, thats it, not lecturing, only trying to educating people in how to see facts, not just jump on whatever everybody writes but use you mind to look for pathers, etc and collect knowledge and utelyse them in your own way, to think about how to go to the oposits, different angles, where to look and what to look for, etc to reconise that, etc, and I never attack people for been way out of line because I have done that before and had to crawl back since it turned out there where onto something and whent from that to where I am now, etc, of course I have my laughs but when it comes to free speache I am hard core, if you dont like it, so dont read it, thats it.

    And I like some others, the internet was indeed and stil is, an revolution when it comes to information, it from bit, and even in physics witch is my favorite, information and waves are fundamentals, everything else is secondary, but I dont hold my breath when it comes to hope people undestand that, and to be frank, I dont care eighter, its your problem, not mine.
    Have an nice day and take care.

    peace

  • Blaine

    Unfortunately the timeline of events contradicts the accusation, and there can be no more expert witness than the WHO, which was in constant contact with Chinese health authorities. Praised the response from day one.

    • Jens Holm

      Its very visible that WHO just as UN has to try to represent all 192 members and therefore make very strange compromises.

      Here China has supported them and also tricked not only them but the whole world. WHA has seen and taken, whats was showed for them. There was no problems, but there was.

      In this You only can rely in, that WHO tell them, what they are bought to by the biggest contributors. In this they have not been sober in health at all.

      • Blaine

        Again, the timeline doesn’t even support that assertion. When Wuhan was locked down, WHO felt it was unjustified, China went ahead.
        It context of liability there is more grounds and evidence for US citizens to sue their own govt than China’s.

  • Blaine
  • James Adams

    FUCK CHIAN FOR CREATING COVID !!!

    • Jens Holm

      Hard times for Denmark. We are only 5,8 million.

      For we have to wear maskes and cloves:(

  • AM Hants

    US is not a member of the International Criminal Courts and desperately needs the con to be backed by Japan, EU and ‘5 eye’ nations, to take their grievances to ICC.

    It is the only way they can get out of being in debt to China. Gates and $oro$, who invested heavily in the Wuhan labs. US Forces who attended Chinese Military Games, without winning anything??? Gates and John Hopkins University, discussing the Pandemic, back when the US Forces were in Wuhan. When did Gates come up with ID2020? How much has Gates invested in WHO? How many US bio-chemical labs encircle China and Russia, with full diplomatic immunity?

    • Ronald

      “It is the only way they can get out of debt to China”, the hammer hits the nail.

      • Jens Holm

        No its not. China should not be hit at all. China has to be treatd like anybody else. They do behave bad to the rest of the world and many secrets of theirs makes harm to the rest of the world.

        And we do have systems for that, but USA by Trump dany to let them work. We fx has IMF and OPEC as well as UN.

    • Jens Holm

      The political part of Your comment is far out. They can decline in living standard for some years and also win a lot in quality growth.

      Quality growth is obvious for their high speed consuming of energy. Parts right away can be replaced by wind and sunpower. Too many machines incl. cars use too much fuel.

      They also can invest in education and by that get more and better taxpayers.

      They have several very expensive systemes. Tax is form the old days and administrated as american was day to day employed. That right is totally overrrated. Its full of individuel bureucrasy making too many mistakes and people have no money and then get their own money bacl.

      Sanders is same thing. They can save a lot of money for an improved health care system. As Scandinavian I know its true the American healt system cost twice of Ours even it hardly cover millions of poor.

      It also makes a lot of people sick because they buy ransom medine by themselves and even use 100 or 200 years old methods.

      The reasons for those things are clear. The upper control of the healtcare system down to pills at the Parmasist must be the local state. They then can outsourse and choose.

      Private companies should not control that. They take all the money to the shareholders they can. They also are big.

      Its kind of running Syria. Assads are elephants with randomised brain for elephants only.

    • John
      • AM Hants

        Thanks for the link. Although, not a Saker fan, they sometimes provide real gems. Such as the article you have linked. They just get away with so much.

        It also reminded me of the Saker article, ‘The US Bill, Hr1644, To Kill Russian Food Export and Chinese and Chinese Trade’, which also included North Korea and US Piracy.

        That article was also interesting, including showing who the US Senators writing and sponsoring the bill, receive from their sponsors.

        • John

          Saker can be a very good source of food for thought, although as you stated, at times I am not a fan of some of the other writers. This was a good one, the article.

          The US is ramping up to pull some real bullshit. But, we have been moving that way with law for a long time. The country is nothing like it was when I was a child. We had major flaws but, the law was still the law then. It only means what you want it to mean now, even on a local level. There are no standards. Everything legal wise has been turned upside down. That is what happens when your country is run by punks, trying to save something gone south, that they had little do to with in it’s creation. And with all due respect for the office of the presidency, you can’t get a bigger punk than the Donald. I put none of this out there lightly. If they truly go down this road it will be all over, save for the screaming. I hope not. Take care AM.

          • AM Hants

            You take care John. Like you, I was lucky to grow up in a time when my nation was decent. Would never in my wildest dreams have imagined it would end up so corrupt, in just a couple of decades.

  • Arch Bungle

    Since the HIV virus broke out in the USA and the USA failed to provide timely, accurate information to the world it should be made to pay compensation:

    Since the beginning of the epidemic, 75 million people have been infected with the HIV virus and about 32 million people have died of HIV. Globally, 37.9 million [32.7–44.0 million] people were living with HIV at the end of 2018. An estimated 0.8% [0.6-0.9%] of adults aged 15–49 years worldwide are living with HIV, although the burden of the epidemic continues to vary considerably between countries and regions.

    • Jens Holm

      It started in Africa. Go there or find a job instead of asking for money for free. It semes You are a lazy bum in the evil way.

      I also allow me to add the victims are not only victims but irresponsible, when they dont make safe sex.

      I also allow me to add, that a great parts of the victims were and are Americans.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HIV/AIDS_cases_and_deaths_registered_by_region.

      Chimpnses like You should kow that.