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Sultan Erdogan Wants To Become Caliph Of Turkic People

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Sultan Erdogan Wants To Become Caliph Of Turkic People

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On July 24, Turkish Recep Tayyip Erdogan demonstrated that all ‘speculations’ about the neo-Ottoman project that he’s implementing are no more speculations, but the reality. By Erdogan actions, it becomes clear that the Turkish president positions himslef as the historical leader that restored the Ottoman Empire and once again turned the Hagia Sophia cathedral into a mosque.

In an unprecendented move, on July 25 Erdogan even led the first Muslim prayer at the Hagia Sophia. The Turkish president officailly leading prayers in a mosque is something that goes contrary to the principle of the secularism introduced with the 1928 amendment of the Constitution of 1924. The 1928 amendment removed the provision declaring that the “Religion of the State is Islam”, and with the later reforms of Turkey’s first president Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, which set the administrative and political requirements to create a modern, democratic, secular state, aligned with Kemalism.

The current Turkish president just demonstrated to the world that the political heritage of Ataturk and his constitution are destroyed. Instread, Erdogan pretends to be not only the official leader of Turkey and the unofficial leader of all Turkic people, but also the spiritual leader of at least Turkic muslims.

Taking into account the relatively successful work to contain the global economic crisis, the COVID-10 outbreak, the Kurdish insurgency and the Turkish ongoing operations in Syria, Iraq and Libya, one may make the conclusion that Erdogan could be a controversial, but pretty effective leader of Turkey. Furthermore, the current developments in Syria, where the country is in fact split among various factions, Ankara has all chances to annex territories in the country’s northwest, first of all the Syrian regions of Afrin and Idlib. These expansionist successes together with a strong position of Turkey in matters involving allied nations (like support to Azerbaijan in the conflict with Armenia or the strengthening relations with Kyrgyzstan) increases the influence and popularity of the Erdogan government in the Turkic world. In general, in recent years, Erdogan looks even more effective than Russian President Putin.

Another message sent by Erdogan on July 24 is that his Turkey is going to provide its own independent foreign and internal policy and further. If Erdogan is able to find and prepare a smart and professional successor, there will be increasing chances that Turkey will become no only one of the regional leaders, but a real global player. These chances will be increasingly high in the event of a possible decline of influence of the United States, Russia and EU states on the international scene.

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PZIVJ

ALL HAIL THE GREAT SULTAN ! :)
comment image

Black Waters

Lol

Lone Ranger

Surprised?
Really…?
?

occupybacon

Who knows, maybe he will unite the central Asia countries and together with China will conquer Siberia..

PZIVJ

Well bacon, both the Ottoman Empire and China would like a good oil supply. :)

occupybacon

They will still have problems at with border if Erdogan will want the Uygurs

HiaNd

Bacon, please lower your cholesterol I am worried for your only working brain cell.

occupybacon

Mother China wants her Siberia back.

HiaNd

That is (usual) failed attempt by one of US (s)think – tank’s to build the fear in Russia from Chinese invasion to preserve world dominance.
But unfortunately US are totally fucked up and hardly able to preserve even basic unity of their own country.

Even if true (which is not) Russia has enough nukes to obliterate, turn China together with US into one big ashtray.
Nobody can threaten Russia.
NOBODY on this planet !

occupybacon

No, they will accept money.

The Objective

Which they can always buy from Iran, Iraq, and Libya.

Harry Smith

Quite impossible scenario in the world of nuclear strategic missiles. :)
Erdogan is kafir and those Muslims who believe in great Turan. So it’s very clear he won’t succeed.

The Objective

Hello my friend. You are clearly a Shiite, and you probably recognize Erdogan will likely succeed in forming a Muslim alliance much more difficult for Iran to conquer than the weak Saudis and Emirates. Your leaders are the Kafirs, not Erdogan.

Harry Smith

I am Orthodox Christian which studies Islam. There is a trustful hadeeth recognized by many Sunni Islamic theologians:
“The Prophet said on the authority of Ubayy Bin Ka’b: “If anyone proudly asserts his descent in the manner of the pre-Islamic people, tell him to bite his father’s penis, and do not use a euphemism”.
The Hadeeth is in al-Mishkaat Al-Masaabih, Vol. 2, p. 1021
If you recognize Sunna you have to recognize this hadeeth. So next time you will think about great Turan – recall the hadeeth.

The Objective

You quote this hadith out of context. Here is a link for you to clarify your misconception: https://icraa.org/telling-someone-to-bite-their-fathers-genitals-explicit-phrase-or-misunderstood-expression/

Do explain what you are trying to send across by this hadith. Your quotation is so vague, I don’t see how you want me to relate that hadith to the current happenings. But if you can clarify what you mean by quoting the hadith, I’ll explain things to you.

Harry Smith

Are you idiot? The hadeeth is very clear and can’t be misinterpreted. Even in you link is explained that is a shame for a Muslim to be proud of his tribe. Here is the summary from you link read it with attention:
7. Summary and conclusion
a) The hadith condemns party-spirit and tribal pride that undermines the very essence of Islamic spirit.
b) The word under scrutiny implies “sticking to” or “reflecting upon.”
c) The explicit word for the male genital organ is not mentioned. Instead a euphemism is used.
d) The idea is to make one reflect on his origins and give up false pride. Reference to one’s father is to make one realize how insignificant the person was once. Specifically, for early Muslims, it was a call to realize that their ancestors were pagans and evildoers and it makes no sense to take pride in the condemned.
e) Caliph ‘Umar reiterated and followed this instruction by suspending monetary privileges of those making the forbidden call. This highlights the true spirit of the saying.
f) Usage by other people in other contexts also shows it was a proverbial phrase used to condemn unbecoming behavior of a person or even simply to express anger. In the hadith under consideration, it was meant as a strong and explicit reminder to make one get over phony pride.
g) In the light of the explanation above the correct meaning of the hadith is: “He, who asserts his relationship in the manners of the time of ignorance, put him to shame by explicitly mentioning to him his origins and reality as a human and the disbelief and practices of his ancestors”.
If you still believe in great Turan after you read the explanation you are indeed kafir and you will be very badly surprised in the grave.

The Objective

Okay, no need to insult me. You just make your point and we can agree or disagree without insulting each other.

I am glad you visited the link I provided and even read the summary. Now we are more likely to understand each other.

Tribalism is condemned in Islam and so is taking pride in your ancestors who were condemned for evil.

If you mean Erdogan promotes tribalism or takes pride in ancient Turks who were non-Muslims or disobedient Muslims, then I will start by challenging you to produce the proof that Erdogan promotes tribalism or glorifies the wrong people of the past. On the other hand, I will produce proof that his larger goal is for an inclusive united Sunni Muslim front. Just ask for the proof if you dispute this claim.

Secondly, I want you to understand that change comes gradually. It is one of Morsi’s biggest mistakes trying to make overnight changes to Egyptian way of life. Erdogan has proven a much smarter player. I want you to recall a hadith where the prophet (s.a.w) says Islam started as strange (something people weren’t used to) and will end up as strange (just the case now when disbelievers and even some Muslims consider Shariah law strange despite the fact that it ruled a large portion of the world for hundreds of years – not too long ago).

Erdogan can praise the people who Turks consider their heroes even if Islam forbids the praise of this people. And Erdogan can even get reward for doing this depending on his intentions. For example, if he realizes that condemning such people will turn majority of ignorant Turks against him, he can temporarily praise these ancient people just to have support of the majority Turks to stay in power. Then he can gradually implement the change that will finally enlighten those among ignorant Turks who hold people like Kemal Ataturk at a high standard. It took Erdogan years before he prepared the Turkish community to support the conversion of Hagia Sofia to a mosque. It also took him years to make majority of Turks vehemently against military rule. Erdogan should play his part. Wherever he stops, a similar-minded Turkish president can continue until the Pious generation he yearned for is built.

Harry Smith

It’s not about Hagia Sofia, Sunni union or whatever. If you praise your tribe or ethnic you are kafir by opinion of many Islamic theologians. It’s not your fault or Erdogan’s fault that Turkish people were used to oppress the USSR by their relationships with Turkic people. That’s why the mythology about Great Turan is promoted in your schools and most of Turkish people are brainwashed with this stuff. Even Erdogan. But you have brains and you can read the Quran, hadeeths and works of non CIA paid Islamic theologians.
You say Erdogan can unite Sunnis, I will say you that no one true Muslim will stand in one army with Turks. Because in the Quran Muslims are forbidden to make alliance with Christians or Jews which are allies between themselves. Turkey is NATO member and ally of USA which is principal ally of Israel. So only khawarij can not see that Turks are kafirs and all those who stand with them are kafirs too. Even Erdogan showed his kafir when he glorified Ukraine when true Muslim never glorifies anything or anyone except Allah.
So stop believe in BS and concentrate on studying the Quran and reading trustful Islamic theologians. This life is just a sparkle. Think about your eternal destiny and how the great Turan and being USA ally will influence it.

The Objective

Much of your misunderstanding is answered by a hadith which I think you are aware of: Every action will be judged according to your intention.

When Erdogan praises Kemal Ataturk by his lips but act contrary to the ideology of Kemalism, he is clearly not in support of Ataturk.

Go back to my last comment and read what I said about somebody doing a small wrong (unwillingly) to correct a bigger wrong by his people. By his actions, I know Erdogan is 100% pro-Islamic regardless of what he tells the Turkish people. Follow his actions, not words, otherwise you won’t get the picture. The Shias call this Taqiyya, although theirs amount to lies and blasphemy and disbelief because they overstep the bounds.

I think you know too little about the pro-Islamic policies Erdogan is pushing in Turkey that will create an enduring change in the way future Turks view ans interact with the world.

Harry Smith

And what is Erdogan’s intention? If he really wants to unite ummah why he is fighting in Syria and kills Muslims? Why he allows USA to use Turkey territory to kill muslims in Iraq? Why Erdogan kills Muslims in Libya? Is his intention to unite all Muslims in grave?
Look, there is the hadeeth which says you can’t praise your ancestors while praising of Great Turan is one of keystones of modern Turkish ideology. Quran denies Muslims to be ally with USA and Turkey is member of NATO. You can’t succeed in Sunni Caliphate building if you deny Sunna and Quran. It’s like if prostitute preached for chastity.

The Objective

You must look at this issue from history and a broader perspective. NATO was formed in April 1949. Erdogan was born February 1954. So NATO was formed 5 years before Erdogan was born. He therefore, cannot take the blame for making Turkey a NATO member.

Not everyone who calls himself Muslim is a true Muslim. Frankly, the Shiite believe is NOT Islam at all. It is something else. That does not mean we should kill Shiites. But when they try to impose that corrupt believe on us, then it becomes mandatory to fight them in whatever way permitted by Shariah.

You do understand that there is an opposition to Assad within Syria. that opposition are the people Turkey is standing up for. All Turkey wants in Syria is for an inclusive government in Syria supported by the Majority of Syrians. But Assad, Iran and Russia don’t want that. You can testify that Turkey helping over 3 million Syrian refugees both Shiite and Sunni is a show of brotherly love.

I have explained over and over again that Erdogan’s action should be judged according to his intentions. Please read my previous comments again and try to digest every information therein. I don’t need to repeat it.

About Libya, Turkey did not preempt a war. It was Haftar who resorted to arms first. The GNA is the recognized government of Libya by much of the World. It has ambassadors and hosts ambassadors too. The GNA invited Turkey just like Syria invited Assad and Iran.

Because you are a Muslim does not mean that another Muslim should not fight you when you are the first to resort to arms and want to kill the other Muslim.

Your understanding of Islam is limited. The prophet (s.a.w) says any Muslim who resorts to arms against another Muslim is no longer a Muslim. That was what Haftar did. That was what Sisi did with the killing of Morsi.

A Muslim’s blood becomes legitimate to shed when he tries to kill another Muslim.

Harry Smith

Let’s put it straight from the beginning. Kafirs can not decide who is true Muslim and who is not.

You do understand that there is an opposition to Assad within Syria. that opposition are the people Turkey is standing up for.

Turkey has opposition too and Turks even kill Kurds rebels. Does it means Israel can invade Turkey to protect Kurds?

It was Haftar who resorted to arms first.

Terrorists paid by USA and trained by Turkey started the war against Libyans and killed Gaddafi. Haftar protects his land and his people from NATO invasion and that’s why Haftar is true Jihad warrior, while GNA fighters and their supporters will go to hell. And yes – GNA is recognized by NATO members.

Turkey is temporarily a NATO member.

So don’t tell me Turks are Muslims until they are in NATO.

You don’t expect Erdogan to whine Turkey off NATO overnight

Could you please be so nice and remind me how long Erdogan is in power?

HiaNd

So Harry are you undercover Shiite like our over agitated Sunni friend (The Objective) here suggests?
Or you are just somebody from the West speaking common sense?

Harry Smith

Just responded to the Objective.

johnny rotten

Erdo is a chicken, he has not yet noticed that many are using it, while he thinks he is the one who fucks everyone, who knows if at the end of his adventures there will still be turkey as we know it today, the economic disaster is already in become, as he finances the terrorists that one day will turn against him, it is known to all that the Muslim Brotherhood is an English creation? so who is he playing for? for the english crown, for israel or for who else?

Icarus Tanović

So for who is he praying for?

The Objective

My friend, I ask you to check deep down your soul for what your real fear and feelings are. You know damn well that the West is 100% against the current Turkish policies. They are trying to make it look less problematic not to give the impression that there is a serious problem with NATO. But the disagreement is seeping out to view.

The real reason you hate Erdogan so much is cos you recognize the light of Islam he is trying to rekindle. Who are you trying to fool calling him a western agent? The world is well aware of CIA tricks now to easily fall for them. The Muslim world knows that something is happening. It is good for Erdogan if he ends up remembered in history as the Muslim president who started a movement for the unity of Muslims.

Your real western agents (Elsisi, Al-saud, Emirates, etc) are the ones who fit your description of Erdogan. So quit misinforming people who want to know the real state of affairs.

HiaNd

My friend I ask you to check your anti-Christina bigotry that blinds your capacity of judgment.
You don’t even understand that plenty of “Christians” on the West are not Christians at all And their attitude most of the time is not tainted by religious prejudice.

“West is 100% against the current Turkish policies”
Not exactly.

Erdogan is still openly anti-Assad (even now when he pretends to be a “partner” to Russia in Syria)
That is definitely not the “policy” that West doesn’t like about Erdogan.
But on the other hand he is using Zionist-Jihad organized and financed by the West for the interests of re-creating a new (mini) Ottoman Empire ( Syria, Libya, Iraq).
So you are wrong about that also (he is not doing that for glory of Islam, but for his own personal glory and objectives of Turk nationalism above all)
He will not hesitate to abuse and even kill Muslim Arabs and Kurds the same way Ottomans did long time ago, with anybody who would oppose to their rule.

So no “rekindling” of Islam “my friend”, just rekindling of mini Ottoman Empire.
Mr Rotten doesn’t call Erdogan “western agent”.

He just calls him useful idiot.
Just like those Muslims who were fighting “jihad” against other Muslims in Syria, Libya, Iraq for interests of Jews and West are useful idiots.
Not single bullet was fired against the Israel while Muslims were killing Muslims and destroying once strong Arab country Iraq just the way Jews have planned to be.
How intelligent is that?
Jews and CIA+MI6 have planed and organized your “jihad” ISIS and Caliphate.
Not to mention Al Qaeda…
It is pathetic how much Islamic world is manipulated by the West and above all Jews!
And this comes to you from an Orthodox Christian (whom you despise)

Can’t you Muslims learn something from strong and wise Islamic warriors like Saladin?!

Brother Ma

**claps in awe** well said ,friend.

The Objective

Your last statement checkmates pretty much everything you said provided you understand history. Before I remind you of something about Salahuddeen Al-Ayyubi, let me correct some misconception you seem to have about me.

For one thing, I did not mention the word “Christian” in the comment you rebuke, so I wonder where you got it from. Christians are not the only enemies of Islam. Pagans were the first enemies, then Jews, then Christians, then Hindus, and many others.

I agree that part of the Muslim world is being manipulated. But for this manipulation to happen, something must have been planned and executed. You must understand what happened within the periods of 18th to 19th century to correctly diagnose the situation.

The west destroyed the last Muslim Caliphate in Turkey by means of physical and psychological war. The broke up the Muslim regions and planted their agents like the house of saud and others. The Muslims still have not been able to get rid of these western agents ruling their countries. With bad leaders come corruption, so these devils ruling our lands managed to use their power and money to corrupt many into supporting them. These rulers buy over evil sheikhs willing to brainwash the young Muslims eager to fight in a Jihad to liberate their lands. That’s how CIA gets its jihadi recruits. But I want you to note that MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS are not fooled by this arrangement. That is the reason these leaders are finding their countries increasingly difficult to govern. Donald Trump puts it more bluntly. I’ll quote him below.

“How about our military deals where we protect rich nations that we don’t get reimbursed?” Trump told a campaign rally in the U.S. state of Mississippi on Tuesday night. “I love the king, King Salman, but I said, ‘King, we’re protecting you. You might not be there for two weeks without us. You have to pay for your military, you have to pay.’”

Now about Salahuddeen Al-Ayyubi. Before he set about defeating and expelling the crusaders in the Middle East, Salahuddeen first put the region in order. He have control over much of the Middle Eastern Muslim except for the Shiites.

Erdogan should emulate what Salahuddeen did. And I think Erdogan is doing it right now. It’s clear from his policies. You are mistaken to say it’s only in Syria and Iraq. Turkeys largest foreign military base is in Somalia, I think.

Besides, Turkey just signed a Military Agreement with Niger that will probably allow Turkish troops there. This is in light of threats by the devil El-sisi. He though the Muslims of Egypt have no supporters that are willing to fight.

The Objective

Your last statement checkmates pretty much everything you said provided you understand history. Before I remind you of something about Salahuddeen Al-Ayyubi, let me correct some misconception you seem to have about me.

For one thing, I did not mention the word “Christian” in the comment you rebuke, so I wonder where you got it from. Christians are not the only enemies of Islam. Pagans were the first enemies, then Jews, then Christians, then Hindus, and many others.

I agree that part of the Muslim world is being manipulated. But for this manipulation to happen, something must have been planned and executed. You must understand what happened within the periods of 18th to 19th century to correctly diagnose the situation.

The west destroyed the last Muslim Caliphate in Turkey by means of physical and psychological war. The broke up the Muslim regions and planted their agents like the house of saud and others. The Muslims still have not been able to get rid of these western agents ruling their countries. With bad leaders come corruption, so these devils ruling our lands managed to use their power and money to corrupt many into supporting them. These rulers buy over evil sheikhs willing to brainwash the young Muslims eager to fight in a Jihad to liberate their lands. That’s how CIA gets its jihadi recruits. But I want you to note that MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS are not fooled by this arrangement. That is the reason these leaders are finding their countries increasingly difficult to govern. Donald Trump puts it more bluntly. I’ll quote him below.

“How about our military deals where we protect rich nations that we don’t get reimbursed?” Trump told a campaign rally in the U.S. state of Mississippi on Tuesday night. “I love the king, King Salman, but I said, ‘King, we’re protecting you. You might not be there for two weeks without us. You have to pay for your military, you have to pay.’”

Now about Salahuddeen Al-Ayyubi. Before he set about defeating and expelling the crusaders in the Middle East, Salahuddeen first put the region in order. He have control over much of the Middle Eastern Muslim except for the Shiites.

Erdogan should emulate what Salahuddeen did. And I think Erdogan is doing it right now. It’s clear from his policies. You are mistaken to say it’s only in Syria and Iraq. Turkeys largest foreign military base is in Somalia, I think. Turkey also has forces in Albania,

HiaNd

I have tried to tell you something …while you have stayed completely on the surface with no substance.
So hear me now;

The way I see things you are either Turk pretending not to be one or even Turk bot paid to talk usual Turk propaganda.
Your “vibrant” Turk economy depends on Chinese line of credit without which it would be collapsed long time ago.
Turkey was begging Russia at the time of the settling downed bomber incident, to reopen market for Turk exports and to send Russian tourists back to Turkey. And now you pretend they area “vibrant economy” with covid19 and global economic crisis?!
And all that with some silly chart and “statistics”?!
You must be joking !

Without Chinese money and Russian protection Turkey would already have U.S. replacement for Erdogan long time ago.

All this tirade of yours is just adding up plenty of words on something you have already said about Turkey or the West.

Your nonsensical example of Trump words doesn’t prove your point about anything.
And weather they extort Saudi’s for the money openly or in more diplomatic way or weather they threaten them to replace them with another set of US puppets is nothing new at all in way US conducts foreign policy around the globe.
Today China is by far the biggest buyer of Saudi oil and US was till recently even one of the biggest competitors (and not biggest buyer like long time before)
That is why ( among other things) they have their relations turned sour.
Simply because their interests doesn’t go in same parallel direction any more. They are not going in the same direction for quite some time already.

The Objective

You didn’t get the message in my quoting Trump because you lack the understanding to fit that example into the broader geopolitics of the Middle East. But others understand, at least by the replies I get.

Turkey has debt too, but at least it has a lot less debt to GDP ratio than all but two EU countries. the average debt to GDP of EU members is 80.4% as of 2018. That means the ow far far more than they make. This number will only increase over the coming years. That could be why Britain wants out.

HiaNd

Those “debt to GDP” in Turkey are not accurate at all.
Erdogan is dictator and if he thinks that it is not in Turk (his) interest to admit how much money he has just borrowed from China, than that will stay a secret.

Turk politics towards West and NATO shows that they have Chines financial support without which US would brake Turkey (lira) in two and collapse Turk economy, through financial machinations on the Wall Street.
So get your basic logic in order before lecturing others.
Turkey was never major independent player. Their posturing today, where they challenge West, is based on Chinese support.
Only 3 countries are truly independent : U.S., China and Russia. Nobody else.

The Objective

Debt to GDP not accurate? What is your bases for disputing that statistics? The source is authentic and far more knowledgeable than either of us. By my research, these figures are largely accurate. You lack a viable argument – making some random accusation that Turkey fed the wrong stats. Debt to GDP is not something you can hide cos the organizations tracking it have access to plenty of data about your country. For example, the world bank or IMF.

The U.S is welcome to destroy Turkey’s economy if it wants to lose access to the two highly critical U.S bases in Turkey. Turkey suspended this access in the past – I think in 1977. The effect on U.S power projection was devastating. Erdogan threatened to do that when the U.S congress adopted a move to sanction Turkey over the Afrin operation and the S400. But the U.S decided to maintain access to their two critical bases instead.

You also hinted in a previous comment that Russia is protecting Turkey. You think Russia is a god without which Turkey will not survive? Allah and the Turkish armed forces protect Turkey – not Russia or NATO. Turkey must help Pakistan grow its nuclear arsenal to at least 1500 bombs, 500 of which are ready to ship to turkey on short notice.

This argument is no longer meaningful as you have resorted to arbitrary accusations without proof.

I still stand by the fact that Turkey is doing pretty good economically compared to all but 2 EU countries. Let the EU reduce its debt to GDP down to 30% and then you can talk about its economic health.

Brother Ma

Which are the two countries in the EU that Turkey is just worse than? Being propped up by Qatar and secret money from the EU and Soros can make any country look good anyway.

If Qatar stops gifting money to Turkey it is gone in a flash. Turkey is like Israel living off US grants of 10billion or so a year.

The Objective

Check the stats on the economies of Qatar, Turkey, and each EU member. Then compare to reality. Also produce your proof, not allegations, that stats about Turkey’s economy is wrong.

I said Turkey has a healthier economy than all but two EU states if you consider debt to GDP ratio. From your comment, you obviously misunderstood me.

HiaNd

Nonsense “organizations tracking it” have NO access to secret agreements between China and Turkey.
Turk policy is far too much independent (towards US & West) for the size and importance they represent (as country) to be accepted at face value.
It is clear that they are backed by adversary power (China) since Turk weak spot was economy.

As for US and their Western “allays”, they can effortlessly hurt Turkey far more than Turkey can hurt them back.
Russia was not “god”, just country with information for Erdogan that CIA is preparing coup against him. That’s the main reason why the coup against Erdogan has failed completely.

And that was the main reason why despite killing of Russian ambassador in Ankara, and downing of Russian bomber (killing pilot, destroying rescue chopper and killing Russian marine) relations with Turkey have dramatically improved between 2 countries.

Because Erdogan have discovered that they have common enemy Zionist-U.S. that was trying very hard to start war between Russia and Turkey (and trying to remove Erdogan as well)

You can call it “Allah” I personally call that Russian help to Erdogan, that has radically changed relations between 2 countries to the present day.

As for “Turk army” protecting Erdogan parts of that same army were involved in removal of Erdogan during the coup, so stop talking rubbish.

Erdogan didn’t arrest thousands of people in security forces and army for nothing.

“Turkey must help Pakistan grow its nuclear arsenal to at least 1500
bombs, 500 of which are ready to ship to turkey on short notice”

500 atomic bombs for Turkey from Pakistan?!!
Why not 50 000?

Ha ha ha ha what pathetic clown you are!
I am talking to the total idiot and wasting my time obviously.
You should have written that in the beginning to show me how big ignorant moron you are.
Good bye and don’t talk to me ever, you pathetic ignoramus.

The Objective

You still haven’t proved that the information IMF and World Bank have on Turkey’s economy is false. You argue subjectively. it hurts you to know that Turkey has a healthier economy than all but two EU members. The sources I provided are reliable, owned by American companies. Now why would America-controlled organizations like the IMF or World Bank manipulate stats to make Turkey look better than it is? Certainly not when the U.S leadership dislikes Erdogan and would like to see anything that tarnishes the reputation of Erdogan.

Russia tipping Erdogan of the coup plan did help disrupt the coup, but certainly that was not what saved Erdogan. The nearly 300 Turks who died and the Turkish private military contractors played a major role in foiling it. Russia tipping Erdogan didn’t stop the coup plotters executing it. It only warned Erdogan and got him to act on time. If the civilians of Turkey weren’t squarely behind Erdogan, Russia would not send its military to Turkey to stop it.

U.S and Western allies will hurt Turkey more than Turkey will hurt them? You are the moron here my friend. America’s strategic bases in Turkey that serves as a logistics hub for missions across the Middle East and Asia will be closed for good. Turkey breaks away from NATO and allies with Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan. If you are talking about trade, Turkey will temporarily be hurt by economic sanctions, but China will fill the void pretty fast. Look at the map before you comment on this. Turkey is the gateway to Europe in the Chines BRI which will soon replace your dying economic power (Europe).

I didn’t say the Turkish army protects Erdogan you dumb. Read that comment again. I said Allah and the Turkish army protects “Turkey”.

“Erdogan didn’t arrest thousands of people in security forces and army for nothing”. What the hell does this statement mean. If you wanna know what Erdogan did to the coup plotters, visit this site that was made specifically for that purpose: https://turkeypurge.com/

You think it is impossible to amass 1500 nukes? The cost of one pieces of a nuclear bomb is estimated to be between $18 and $53 million. The Turkish yearly revenue is $172.8 billion as of 2017. Turkey generates $34.5 billion from TOURISM alone in 2019. Pakistan’s yearly revenue in 2019 was $36.0 billion. Add Qatar and Libya to the equation and estimate just how many nukes these countries can produce in one year if they are really determined to grow the Pakistani nuclear arsenal. 1500 isn’t a big deal. What is lacking is the decision.

The Muslim world just isn’t united yet. Should the emerging alliance between Turkey, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Qatar, and Libya become reality, these countries can jointly fund the Pakistani nuclear program in exchange for Pakistan’s nuclear umbrella. All that it takes is for the leaders to make that decision. Between them, they’ve got all the resources to make more than 1500 nukes in a decade or so. So my suggestion is not unrealistic at all.

So my dear fool, you are the pathetic moron and ignoramus – not me. I seldom make comments without a solid informational backup. Challenge my claims with facts and logic. If you lack the understanding to make simple mathematical calculations, that’s your business.

HiaNd

You are like broken record repeating all the same, boring the s*it out of me.
I’m not even interested to read your novel like comment !
Good bye TURK !

Brother Ma

You don’t fool anyone apart from ignorant moslems. We all know that the alphabet turk groups in Syria are just as much jihadist /head choppers as isis if not worse. In fact ,until the Russians torched you, Isis was everywhere and anywhere in turkey and you as a country welcomed them ,fed them amd nursed them .Don’t pretend now that they are Saudi and you Turks had nothing to do with them. You are neckdeep in crime and shame just as your ancestors were. You were zioamericanato’s bitchboy and you had the main role in recruiting ,training and running these salafist pigs for your master and you saying differently does not change the facts.You are just lucky you have not yet been punished but that is what you deserve.

Brother Ma

Erdogan is a cia stooge and is only now turning rogue. We know what all other cia stooges get for turning rogue don’t we? Heard of Osama BinLaden and Saddam Husein ,right?

The Objective

Yeah, I heard of Osama Bin Laden. I remember he wasn’t a president wielding the second largest army in NATO. The same goes for Saddam
America won’t do shit besides sanctions or a coup. The tried the coup which failed miserably. What I think they might try is to assassinate Erdogan and then blame it on the many people he sacked, especially among soldiers. Erdogan need to watch his steps. One opportunity, and they won’t hesitate to take it.

Brother Ma

Your talk of second biggest army means nothing. France had the biggest army and that crap and excellent weaponry in both world wars and still lost. Greece also took on superweights and stil won from year one. The Turk army is filled with rural recruits not very sharp or with any initiative.

The Objective

You missed the point. I was not comparing military strength my comment. I just wanted to tell you there is a difference between Erdogan and Osama bin Laden or Saddam.
Plus Pakistan won’t just watch Turkey invaded. Plus, the U.S doesn’t want to lose access to two critical bases in Turkey. Plus, the U.S still has Iran and Shiite forces to deal with. And much more. This is not 2003.

Brother Ma

Pakistan can do little to help Turkey and should mind its own business.

Greece has stupidly given the Usmany bases anyway so the latter doesn’ t need the Turk bases anymore.

Yes of course Erdo andTurkey are more powerful than Saddam and Osama ever were.

The Objective

Check up on recent Turkey-Pakistan relations from trade to tourism and military. That should clarify much of the doubt you seem to have regarding whether or not Pakistan will help Turkey should your American or European Kuffaar decide to invade.

The Objective

Besides, they still need to finish with Iran before taking on another country like Turkey. So calm down.

Fog of War

Of course none of us really knows whats truly going on, but , lets assume this is a good old fashioned geopolitical ” game of thrones “. If thats the case, all must admit that Erdogan has played it brilliantly. If Erdo wants to lead the Turkic people , so be it. I wish the European people had a leader willing to unite them. Same with Africans and all other groups.

FANFARONE ? Year of the Pig ??

The sole brilliant Turk was Mustafa Kemal, who has addressed all those issues Erdogan is now stirring. The abolishment of caliphate, turanism and hagia sofia amongst others.

here is a 100 yo interview that remains still on topic
https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/1923-interview-with-ataturk-138736

It’s creepy Erdogan and his associates have devised an unprecedented setback reversing all that progress which made Turkey look almost normal country by western standards. Actually we are monitoring Kemal’s islamist enemies winning the revenge match which will only lead Turkey to become a new Iran right next to European borders.

Erdogan was only successful in saving his libyan puppet but that came to a great political coat with several countries teaming up against Turkey and moreover he got stuck in a quagmire being unable to unite Libya under one rule. Essentially the country is divided and it will stay that way as long as big players guarantee for the eastern regions. Basically there are very tangible limits to what Erdogan can achieve abroad. We saw it in Syria as well, he sent troops in a region where the Russians controlled the air and Turkey is only allowed to fly drones. Half of the rebel area was lost and a few dozens of Turkish soldiers perished after getting bombed. Before that he was up to create a huge safe zone along the entire border and brought with him in UN maps showing potential areas in Turkish control as far as raqqa city and even deir ez zor. In the end he was allowed to occupy a tiny strip of land where bombs explode quite often and nobody is willing to assist him in his plans to build residential compounds and infrastructure to resettle refugees

Speaking of Syria, their involvement there was nothing but a fiasco, their proxies lost the war, and nearly all of Turkish red lines were scrapped over the years. That much of brilliance, but I give him he’s got good PR and marketing – also got himself a handy mercenary pool

The Objective

You expect to pay a price for victory. Even the prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) paid some price in blood and treasure. Turkey has paid some price for its involvement in Syria and Libya, largely in the form of money. It also lost a couple dozen soldiers. But it has also inflicted more human cost on its enemy earlier this year when its drones killed hundreds of SAA and its machinery. So it means the Turks don’t get killed in Syria without their adversary paying a price.

Turkey has made some great economic gains in the war in Libya. I think Turkish construction companies won contracts to build over 3000 houses in Libya, plus other oil contracts in Libya and Qatar.

Regarding your third point, it is better to have a divided Libya than one ruled by Haftar or his supporters. Their mission was to overthrow the GNA. Turkey foiling that mission is a huge victory. They don’t have to conquer the whole of Libya. Whatever political settlement is reached in Libya, Turkey will certainly be an influential player and will make huge economic, political and military gains that they can further use to help the Muslim world.

FANFARONE ? Year of the Pig ??

LOL both in syria and libya erdoganoid backed forces are stranded well away from the oil fields, that’s why emir erdie was begging donnie to include turkey in exploiting syrian oil fields. Now in Libya italian company ENI owns much of the oil and gas.

Moroever if they don’t make it to cyrenaica then the MoU on maritime zones cannot be implemented b/c the anatolian coast projects on cyrenaica rather than tripolitania xD

I can hear you crying but save some of your tears, the worst are yet to come

The Objective

Then why are your lackeys pleading for a ceasefire when they earlier rejected it.

Italy and Turkey are buddies in Libya. And the GNA also has access to oil, just not as much as the LNA. Besides, the LNA’s control over parts of Libya’s oil is contested.

As a reminder, Niger just signed a military agreement with Turkey less than a week ago. Niger shares a land border with Libya.

Elsisi will find it hard to sustain operations in Libya considering mounting pressure on him by Egyptians being overwhelmingly against it.

Just like you said. We shall see how things play out.

FANFARONE ? Year of the Pig ??

merely wishful thinking, dream on lancilik

SiSi has caged most of the islamists like the arch-terrorist morsi who was offed in the Egyptian dungeons LOL

erdie’s allies yalakalari are wavering, the ikhwan was just outlawed in Jordan, the friendly sudanese former government was toppled last year and the MB in Tunesia is getting weaker

also ENI > Italy

The Objective

Don’t worry. We’ll see who wins in the end. You are clearly not a Muslim, or even worse, a Munafiq (hypocrite). There is no such thing in Islam as Muslim Brotherhood. There is only Muslim. I support the MB in Egypt cos they are the closest to pure Islam than any sect in Egypt.
Calling the Islamic awakening weak at a time it is gaining momentum shows you have not been observant of the changes sweeping Muslim societies around the world. Soon, it’ll be too obvious not to notice.
Morsi and his gang of thugs will have their fair share of trouble when the Egyptians overturn his regime. I pray Sisi gets bogged down in Libya. That will precipitate his overthrow. Most Egyptians are against the deployment to Libya. If Sisi backs down, his strongman fails. If he invades, he risks a major domestic revolt. Either way, he is stuck.

FANFARONE ? Year of the Pig ??

LMAO genius did you just wonder whether I believe in conspiracy theories ( religions, false deities ) after calling mentally retard your prophet two comments above ?

worry not, seitan ( call me atheism ) will triumph over the combined xian + muzzie forces in the final religious battle

libya : try to sell your BS again once GNA and wali sarraj controls sirte & juffra xD

until then drink your ayran and be quite kofte boi – yet another islamist pozer preaching & prioritizing obsolete religions over secular values like progress, family, nation, reason, prosperity, humanism

The Objective

Fine. We wait and see how this whole struggle ends up.

cechas vodobenikov

Turkish foreign and domestic policy seems short sighted—they have done little to address increasing disparities, structural economic/social problems, poverty during the past 20 years

Harry Smith

The only cause of a “brilliant” games is need of Ingerlik base by dying Empire. When USA will fall the whole World will sink in local conflicts, because USA are using most hated ethnics from the centuries before and until now. It’s impossible that Germans will swallow the nowadays humiliation by Poles. French will not forget humiliation by Turks, Arabs will slaughter Israelites etc. The only will which keeps modern world in some kind of peace and gives the miserables a dare to act as they act is Washington. Kinda Sauron of modern days. :)

The Objective

Truly, I think Erdogan is more popular outside Turkey. His popularity is growing because of the good things Muslim scholars around the world and Students of Islamic knowledge are saying about him. The Muslim world needs a leader. A leader that will encourage some kind of alliance of Sunni Muslim countries – even just consisting a handful of countries. Others will fall in line with time.

Rhodium 10

Turkey dont have neither nuclear weapons nor petrol/gas resources to become a powerful country.. the Baku-Ceyhan oleoduct can be destroyed easily in case of Armenia-Azerbajan war while Egipt could close Suez for petrol vessels to Turkey…for other side we have seen how Mig 29 armed with KH 31 kripton missile have destroyed radar and improve Hawk system beside one Koral EWS!..of course Sultan Erdogan can mobilize all Hordes of wahabi terrorist of muslim countries!..

Icarus Tanović

Wahhabi terrorists from Muslim and non Muslim countries.

The Objective

They don’t need to build nukes domestically. I urge you to investigate Turkey-Pakistan unofficial alliance. There is also a free-trade agreement in the making between the two. Turkey has a vibrant economy and I think they will help Pakistan with the cash to expand its nuclear arsenal. It’d be foolish for Erdogan not to consider this.

Egypt wouldn’t dare interfere with Transfer of gas to Turkey. Besides, there is Iran and Iraq to always provide all the gas Turkey need. Even with that, Egypt still will not try such a suicidal mission.

But I think Erdogan should slow down a bit. The anti-Muslim challenge is still great to confront all at once even within Muslim countries. We have many hypocrites in positions of power in places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia. What Turkey should focus on is first cleanse the Turkish army of hypocrites. This has been achieved to a certain extend, but more can be done. then cleanse the society, particularly the educational sector. There has also been progress in this field with the closing of over 3000 anti-Islamic schools in Turkey.

Erdogan seems to understand this as he has made public his intention to raise a PIOUS generation in Turkey. While doing this, Erdogan should provide as much support as he can to embattled true Muslims in Egypt, Libya, Qatar, Yemen, and other places. At the same time, Erdogan should focus on boosting domestic production and aim to make Turkey completely self-reliant on critical things like Medical Health, Defense, Energy, Transportation, Telecom, and much more, as a buffer against future sanctions by the West. This is more easily achieved via China and Russia who are more open to technology transfers. The spat over Patriot Missile Batteries demonstrates that Erdogan is really focused on self-reliance of Turkey in Weapons tech. The U.S refused to agree to any tech transfers on the patriot batteries. Russia agreed with the S-400, though we don’t know how that might end.

The Muslim world need a Military and economic alliance backed by free trade. I this were achieved, we’ll be more immune to Western sanctions. Turkey appears to be working towards that, with the recent deals with Albania, Pakistan, Qatar, Malaysia, and Indonesia. It should be the prayer of every true Muslim that Allah make this emerging alliance a reality. Thankfully, the coup that could have stopped it just failed in 2016. I think they won’t have a second chance to swing an anti-Islamic coup in Turkey again.

Rhodium 10

Erdogan play the Syrian card because to be anti assad have the support of US/EU and gulf states but at the same time makes business with Russia to avoid problems… and have expelled US troops and SDF from its borders which allow Russian&SAA troops to deploy troops East of Eufrates!…but in Libya is another case and have failed..GNA dont have the control of the oil resources and cannot play the NATO card as France and Greece support LNA while Russian PMC are deployed in the oil fields, Emirates funds them and Egipt have the armed forces ready to intervene….

The Objective

Turkey did not intervene in Syria to please America or NATO. They happen to share interests in Syria. Turkey wants a democratic Syria run by the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY Sunnis. Russia and Iran want to main the dictator, Assad. Unfortunately for Russia, America also wants Assad out for his role in the Iran-Hezbollah arms transfers. The U.S does not care about the well-being of Syrians, but Turkey does. Turkey and Pakistan jointly support more Refugees than the whole of Europe and America combined. And these are largely Muslim refugees. They do this for the brotherly love between Muslims. Europe closed their gates to these refugees despite expressing hypocritical concern for the refugees. TURKEY HAS NO INTEREST IN THE NATO MISSION IN SYRIA.

Egypt is handicapped by overwhelming public opposition to any Egyptian military deployment in Libya. Muslim Brotherhood is gaining sympathy in Egypt rapidly, and also Algeria, where Muslims recently demonstrated against Haftar and Sisi to pressure the Algerian government.

What Turkey should focus on right now is making sure the project to topple the Muslim rule in Libya is foiled. A political solution that leads to nationwide free and fair elections will still see a majority Muslim victory in Libya.

Right now, Turkey asks the LNA to pull their forces out of Jufra and Sirte before the commencement of any dialogue. If these Munafiqs refuse, then this war will proceed with or without Egyptian intervention.

Much of Libya are ready to pick up arms against the Russians who invaded their country. The top religious authority made a fatwa to that effect, and people answered that call. So for Russia to keep Libya’s dictator, Haftar, in power, Russia must kill all the Libyans ready to defend their country, plus the Turkish forces helping them. Can’t see Putin undertaking such a major military operation. Russia is no longer dealing with ISIS or Al-qaeda who have no support in the Global Muslim ummah. I for one, am willing to fight in favor of establishing a more God-fearing Government in Libya. I know many youths around me who will be willing to die in a Jihad like this. They have only to understand what’s going on and I am pretty sure thousands will flock to Libya.

Rhodium 10

Russia and Egipt cannot afford that Muslim radicals rule libya and Syria..therefore they will use all its military power to avoid it!…

The Objective

We are not asking for the permission of Russia or Elsis. We are fighting them, in a war that just began. We’ll see if El-sisi will hold up against the Muslims of Egypt and Libya for long.

Brother Ma

I notice your softsell in calling both Assad and Haftar dictators yet you don’t call Erdo thse same. The pot calling the kettle black!

Muslim rule is not wanted in libya by most people regardless of what you say. The bulk of the people are quite happy to be secuar moslems and islam in its violent form since 2011 has not done anything for the people. In fact slave markets have returned ,racism against blacks has returned ,sex slaves have returned ,the position of women has gone backwards as has the living -standard of everyday people.

I am afraid you are just a Salafist/ Turk -apologist , a well -spoken, literate propagandist on the air waves.

Don’t think many of us don’t know it…

The Objective

To say many don’t want an Islamic government in Libya is a clear indication that you don’t know Libya or you are deliberately obfuscating the facts. Secondly, you also don’t realize there is a major Islamic awakening currently sweeping the Muslim word. But don’t worry, you’ll soon know.
Your comment is of those who abhor Islam. But regardless of how much fake justification you cook up to denounce Islam, I know it is just the fire of disbelieve burning in your heart – nothing more. Just know that your criticism or threats or military power isn’t gonna dissuade true Muslims from striving to establish a just rule in their societies.
Did you expect things to stay the way you knew them and not change?
Results don’t appear clear to most people until it becomes too obvious to ignore.
I have no doubt Assad will not pull out of this war with a united Syria under his rule. It is either reaches a fair agreement with the opposition, or end up ruling just about half of Syria – and even at that the U.S and Israel won’t leave him alone as long as weapons go through Syria to Lebanon. Not that I am against the Iranian or Hezbollah. I am only being objective.

Brother Ma

You miss my point. I meant that Libyans in the main want secular moslem rule. It is a myth that most Libyans wan’t a theocratic Sunni state.

By Islam you mean you want a Sunni state and a Salafist one at that. I’m sorry ,you are deluded if think most Moslems ,whether Sunni or Shia want that. Hahaha

Assad is loved by most Syrians. Who is this opposition ou talk of? Traitorous Turks and Kurds of Syria , a smattering of Salafist Native Syrian Arabs ,a smattering of edu ated democratoc liberal Syrian arabs and many many flown -in Salafists .all are dogs and should be shot . All but the democratic liberal Syrian arabs are Worthless and detested by right -thinking men. Almost all democratic, moderate and educated Syrian Arab opposition members have either gone back toAssad because of the brutality of Salafism or have been themselves ironically murdered by their till now Salafist combrades.

Stop talking about the myth of an “opposition” in Syria. We heard from the US senate Hearings that there is none! All are Jihadi headchoppers .They found six!!! Six men only . lol

The Objective

For your claim about Syrian loving Assad to hold any water, you must answer the question: Why does Assad object to a nationwide free and fair election in which most Syrians participate? The UN proposal was forwarded by Assad’s buddies namely, Russia, China and Iran back in 2015. Read that proposal that was unanimously adopted by the UN security council.

If Assad is so sure most Syrians will vote him, he’ll agree to a permanent cease-fire to allow for the return of refugees, followed by elections. That is all he has to do. If he wins, no one can say anything again. The U.S and Turkey will be forced to leave if the UN declares Assad the clear winner. UN and EU sanctions will be lifted, and even the U.S sanctions too. Assad knows what the outcome of an election will be, and so do you. And don’t tell me that bullshit about the half-baked election of 2014.

You have no idea about what Libyans want. Do you think change occurs overnight? Why do you think there is so much alarm in the Christian world over Erdogan’s rule in Turkey? Did Erdogan change the Turkish constitution to Shariah? Certainly not. But why the uproar and panic regarding his policies? If you can answer this question correctly, then you’ll understand what I mean about Libya.

HiaNd

“Turkey has a vibrant economy”
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !
Sorry but that was very good joke so I couldn’t resist !

The Objective

If you have any brains to understand this economic statistics, then I advice you to study it: https://tradingeconomics.com/turkey/gdp-growth

Secondly, I want to remind you the Corona-virus hit every economy in the world.

Turkey sent Covid-19 aid to 80 countries as of May this year.
https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/turkey-sent-aid-to-80-countries-to-help-battle-covid-19-vice-president-36336

A country in economic turmoil cannot do this.

Tell me how much help your European great economies sent to others.

HiaNd

“If you have any brains to understand this economic statistics”

You are only strong in insults like all minor characters of your kind.
Your comments are of the same quality.. and you are biased against everybody who is not Muslim.
You even openly dislike Shiite Muslims, so what else could one expect from you?

I couldn’t care less about your charts and “statistics”.
Very often they are just painted illusions and marketing propaganda.

Prosperity of Turkey directly depends on EU.
If they close the door to Turkey.
Than Turkey will dwindle in jiffy into what really is as country… a would be economic power. A toothless tiger.

Actually to talk about EU from financial point of view… comparing to Turkey….it is like comparing giant with microbe.
You are watching the wrong news buddy.

The Objective

Turkey-EU trade is almost split in the middle. The EU will lose almost as much as Turkey does. Here is an excerpt for you to look up: “By 2018, Turkey’s exports to the EU reached 84 billion USD and its imports from the EU reached 81 billion USD”
Website: https://www.trade.gov.tr/turkey-and-eu/turkey-and-the-eu

The EU is no longer the economic power it once was. China has taken over that role. All of your EU countries are HEAVILY IN DEBT except for just a few. A majority of your EU countries have debt above 50% of GDP. Turkey’s debt is 30% of GDP, second only to two countries: Luxembourg and Estonia. Check the EU debt crisis as of March 2020 here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/269684/national-debt-in-eu-countries-in-relation-to-gross-domestic-product-gdp/

So my friend, Turkey is doing just fine compared to over 90% of EU countries. Your economic glory is in the past. New players have emerged now and Turkey will most likely find new trading partners with time. It is insane to put up with EU’s economic bully.

HiaNd

I am growing very tired of you and your non existent “mighty” Turkey.
Turkey is not even comparable to Germany let alone to the power of all those countries combined.
Just one backward country that pretends to be many things, among which, pretends to be economic power.
Depending on Chinese credits and Russian – Iranian energy for further development

Turkey has no friends on the West and they don’t don’t have them on the East (at least not important friends).
But because Russia and China believe that it is in their best interests to bring Turkey on their side to reinforce their Silk-Road Euro-Asian project …Turkey has their support for the time being.
Does Russians or Chinese trust Turkey?
No!
But they seam to be ready to take the risk.

The Objective

I am not portraying Turkey as being among the most powerful economic and military powers. But its economy is certainly not in shambles as you would like to have others believe. Hence, this argument ends.

HiaNd

Very well, since I consider that you are either Turk nationalist , apologist of Turk invasions, or you are militant Islamist, trying to look like something else.
Either way I didn’t hear single positive thought from you.
Just for the record: It is not only Islamic world victim of corruption and protection of interests of the super rich globalists from the West.
Even non Muslim world is in the same situation of being victim of imposed regimes that keep nations down deprived from their rights and their voice.
Turkey is just hiding how much they are really indebted to the EU and China.
That is the secret of their “success”.

Brother Ma

You are right ,Turkey has been bankrupt from day one. It is only propped up by money from Qatar and secret monies sent to them by Soros and the EU.

Why? The EU and zioAmerica wanted the world to see a “moderate”islamic nation because the reigning gurus in Washigton believed in “political islam” . Either they were fooled by the Erdogans and osamas or it was Tel Aviv and Washington’s plan all along. They took the money and ran and turned into Salafist pigs!

Hang them high!

HiaNd

China as well (and lot) ever since Turkey started to mess up NATO and US objectives in Syria and East Mediterraneans (gas problems with Cyprus,Greece,Israel)!
Mega project “Silk-road” route has pushed China into choosing Turkey as one of strategically important countries (like Iran) where the Silk road to Europe will pass (since Syria is not option for already quite some time)
I don’t think that West was ever expecting that Erdogan will stray away from NATO route that much.
It has all started with CIA botched coup against Erdogan and bad blood, suspicions it has created. To the point that Erdogan has jumped in marriage out of interest with enemy like Russia.
I might be wrong but I doubt that all was part of some devious plan by U.S.
Rather something quite opposite.
Yeah, “hang them high” but than what is the big difference between Salafist and Turk ultra nationalist? Just different label with similar results.
Turkey very soon can become major source of instability and wars in the region.
Just like Caliphate and ISIS was.

Brother Ma

I agree and i consider the grey wolves just as bad as isis and there is much evdence that many of the alnusra and isis are in fact Turk Grey Wolf volunteers.
I dont like Turkey but it was Lemal thay made them have a veneer of civilozed behaviour and Erdogan is doing everything to take it away to make turks go back into the bloodthirsty people they already were.

I hooethat Putin ounisges Erdo one day for defilingagia sofya ,the vatican of tge ortjodox world one day.

HiaNd

I see Putin above all as great patriot, moderate person and not so much as inspired Orthodox follower.
Even though great leader, I see him only as transition for return of Russia to something that tsarists Russia was before the revolution.
Stalin is still the most popular leader among the Russian people and Putin is still ex-KGB despite all the evolution of the situation.

For the total transformation of Russia is needed time and new leader.. Another leader of Putin’s format.
I don’t think that “revenge” over Hagia Sophia or thinking about Moscow as “3rd Rome” ever crosses Putin’s mind.
Yet all the same Turkey can be annihilated if directly betrays Russia and attacks openly their key interests I am completely convinced in that.

Brother Ma

Pious ? When you constantly even to this day browbeat Cyprus and Greece and still foment racist moslem religious bigotry against them. Pious when Erdo or Turkey itself still cannot admit it massacred innocents and has never even been punished. I don’t think so. Pious to you means a Turk who is moslem and feels an overlord to all about him.

Paul

Coward Turks are like Pakistanis on the battlefield.They run away when the war starts lol :).Fried turkey and azergayjan

cechas vodobenikov

distracting from the 40-60 million turks living in poverty, a failing economy a currency rapidly inflating, Erdogan can successfully manage to avoid disaster for another few years….when their ISIS proxies can no longer be paid and they can no longer afford their imperialist adventures they will attempt to genocide the Kurds and beg for alms from the EU

The Objective

That’s wishful thinking. Your EU countries are going bankrupt one at a time. We won’t need the EU when a United Sunni Muslim front emerges, even with just a few Muslim countries involved.

Ronald

That is why Libya is critical for Erdogan, with Libya he has oil, and money.
With Libya he will have a good chance of taking Egypt and controlling the Suez Canal.
He plans to take Europe.

Porc Halal

his only notable achievement in the end will be to suck our dick!!..at the end he will die like a dog and the Hagia Sophia will again become an Orthodox Cathedral … and so what exactly will this mischievous muslim be achieved?! …. nothing , nothing at all…

The Objective

That would have been more likely if Erdogan wasn’t reshuffling the Turkish society. The changes he’s made in Turkey will take decades to reverse. He has made great progress towards Islamizing Turkey again. That’s the major reason the 2016 coup failed. Erdogan had more Muslim Turks on his side than against him. Even if Erdogan drops dead right now, he surely has planted a tree that will be difficult to uproot by your Munafiq allies in Turkey. Besides, he is preempting this attack by purging the Turkish society of these rascals. What’ll your coup dogs do if majority of the Turkish army is more in favor of Shariah than secularism? See why I say killing Erdogan isn’t gonna change things for you overnight?

The Objective

Article well written. Erdogan has plenty of non-Muslim enemies, but certainly, he isn’t the dump leader they would like to present him to be. To me, his most important achievement is convincing Pakistan to strongly side with Turkey. Pakistan holds military drills with Turkey, has over 1500 pilots of Pakistan train in Turkey, declared Gulenists a terrorist entity and seized all Gulenist schools in Pakistan at Erdogan’s request and handed over the schools to Turkey’s Islamists, as many prefer to call true Muslims.

Zakir Naik, the most influential Muslim preacher in the world of Sunni Muslims declared years ago that Erdogan is well suited to lead the Muslim world cos Erdogan is NOT afraid of supporting Islam openly, unlike other Muslim rulers who prefer to avoid criticism by the West just like the criticisms Erdogan receives here on SouthFront. We don’t give a fuck about your criticism, and we’re gonna revive Islam whether or not it pleases you. Get used to that.

I used to worry that Turkey should have its own nukes, but after reviewing the countless defense agreements signed with Pakistan and the close partnerships, I have no doubt Turkey will have nukes within a year from Pakistan if it ever became necessary. No need to go through the long process of building one domestically. Just fund the Pakistani nuclear program to increase its arsenal and provide a nuclear umbrella for Muslim countries in any future alliance. Plus, Turkey was and probably still is the Head Quarters of A.Q Khan’s nuclear proliferation black market. That’s enough to tell anyone the Turks have the complete know-how of building nukes.

In another important development for the Sunni Muslim world, Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E sided with India over Kashmir, angering Pakistan like never before. That’s a good thing as the devils in Riyadh and Abu Dahbi should be exposed to the Sunnis unaware of how these bastards have sold our religion to the West.

Pakistan has very close military ties with China and there is significant transfer of military tech to Pakistan to offset India. That means the Turks will soon be having closer cooperation with China. The Prophet (s.a.w) in one authentic hadith talked about Muslims have peace with China. I hope this is getting near as the Chinese are having issues with the West. Let everyone know that China supplied Pakistan nuclear weapons technology.

India is one of Islam’s fiercest enemies. Unfortunately for them, they also have big problems with China.

The odd man out in this new growing alliance is Russia. Russia is making a historic mistake by misreading the current waves of dissatisfaction and change sweeping the Muslim world from grass-root communities. Majority of Sunnis around the world hate the secular leaders, dictators, and monarchs of Arab nations. That includes leaders of: Saudi Arabia, U.A.E, Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain, and others, but excludes Qatar, the GNA, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Pakistan. You dumb-wits here think you understand the tectonic shifts in the Muslim world. As the years roll by, you’ll see a united Sunni Muslim front emerge such that an attack on one (military or economy) will be an attack on all.

Ronald

The Objective;
A worthwhile post, even though I don’t agree with much of what you said, you do speak for many Salafist Sunnis. You are right on Pakistan coming to Erdogan’s side as being his greatest achievement.
The Saudis did bank-roll Pakistan’s nuclear development, and likely received “their fair share” as a return favour. They also brought Wahhabi Islam to Pakistan and Afghanistan, ironically with US help. Pakistan’s air force is a ‘big deal’, and could back Erdogan. Pilots alone is a good score.
You claim China supplied Pakistan nuclear technology, you may be right, but I had read it was a couple of Germans. Problem with nuclear, is that if you use them, so does “the enemy”, drastically reducing the odds of your own survival.
China is the ‘odd man out’ as I see it, can’t see them ignoring that with India, they could rule the world, against India, they too could fall.
Russia is the only one protecting Europe, Germany still has an ‘occupied’ mindset.

The Objective

Well, thanks for the observation. You might be right about Russia protecting Europe in some way. But I think you underestimate America’s control of Europe. Considering a good chunk of the U.S leadership establishment consider Russia the greatest threat to America, I don’t see Russia becoming friends with European countries provided America still runs the show in Europe.

About using nukes, I did not advocate for Turkey or any other country using nukes against an adversary. But nuclear weapons are important to defend the country against nuclear threats, nuclear attack, or even conventional attacks and invasions. That alone makes nukes a necessity for Turkey considering the increasingly challenging role it is playing on the Global stage.

China seems to me a more friendly country because they aren’t likely to interfere in the internal affairs of any Muslim country. I am aware they do maltreat Muslims in China, but then that is less serious as it is their country, under the protection of the government of China. But this cannot be said of Russia. For starters, Russia is directly fighting Muslims who want a return to Shariah law. Look at Egypt and Libya as examples. What do you think will become of Russia’s relation with Egypt or Libya if the Muslims should win this struggle? What about the rest of the Muslim world like Malaysia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Albania, Turkey, Qatar, and others who support the Muslim sides in the struggle in Egypt and Libya? You can see why I say Russia is making a highly risky bet here.

Truth be told, the West can never accept Russia provided it is dominated by America. Does Russia think the regimes in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E, and the other puppets will survive for long? Does Russia think these countries will successfully put out the fire of change sweeping Muslim societies today? Russia is betting on the losing side because Muslim sentiments in the world is overwhelmingly against these corrupt monarchs and dictators.

This is the reason I say China is more likely to enjoy good relations with the Muslims in the future. China has serious problems with America, Britain, and India. And China-Europe relations isn’t smooth either. On the other hand, there is no single Muslim country with which China has problems like the others.

MH370 Atok The Deceiver

what so hype about hagia sophia. its not 3 main holy city mention in the book. Nor it was being built by muslims and you proud of it as it was being built by yours?

James Adams

Were all going to wake up and wonder where the Armenians went. Erdogan will be like, I did nothing.

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