Saudi King Asks Russia To Sell Him S-400 Air Defense System – Russian Media

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Saudi King Asks Russia To Sell Him S-400 Air Defense System - Russian Media

Saudi Arabia’s King Salman speaks with Russian deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin during a welcoming ceremony at Vnukovo airport outside Moscow. Photo: Mikhail Japardidze/TASS

On October 4, Saudi Arabia’s King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud arrived Moscow for talks with President Vladimir Putin and other top Russian officials. Salman headed a large Saudi delegation.

This is first official visit of the king to Russia. The sides will discuss a wide range of tipcs including bilateral cooperation, oil prices and the situation in the Middle East. The Saudi delegation will reportedly leave Russia on Saturday.

The Russian daily Kommersant reported citing own sources that the sides are also set to discuss a $3bn package military sale to Saudi Arabia. This package allegedly includes supplies of Russian-made S-400 air defense systems.

Kommersant’s sources say that nobody expects that the S-400 deal will be reached immediately. However, it will depende on results of the meeting between Putin and Salman that took place on October 5.

Saudi King Asks Russia To Sell Him S-400 Air Defense System - Russian Media

S-400

Earlier this year, official reports appeared that another S-400 deal was reached between Russia and Turkey and Ankara already made already made the advance payment. No more details were provided.

Media reports suggest that Turkey will get for four S-400 batteries from Russia. The advance payment was about $2.5 billion.

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  • AMHants

    Hope Russia says no. I can see the geopolitical advantage with Turkey and aligning them, but, so not Saudi.

    • Simon Gould

      Presumably Russia knows how to defeat/disarm the system

      • AMHants

        Still will be so disappointed and judgemental if Saudi walks off with the S400, cannot see the geopolitical advantages, considering what Saudi stands for.

    • wwinsti

      It would be the same advantage as theTurkey deal, I.e. a powerful NATO ally is being wooed to switch sides. While that would be a coup for the Russians, the Saudis recent flirtation with Israel make it a questionable gain. Russia would have to get Saud to abandon all animosities with Iran, qatar, leave Yemen, and swear off the terrorism business for good, -These are promises the king can’t make (cia controls most of the Saudi royalty).

      • Terra Cotta Woolpuller

        Funny thing this was is bearer of false witness and tidings , this is just the part of the US trying to send it’s lapdogs to be obsequious in a fake attempt at currying favor. Hopefully Russia is too smart for this ploy.

        The Bear is always quiet and silent then without realizing it can lash and rip you to shreds with the least provocation.

    • Bob

      Saudi Arabia, in conjunction with US, has been deliberately crashing the crude oil-barrel price for years – largely as strategic leverage against the Russian economy over the latter’s Syrian intervention since 2015. The Saudi’s and US operated exactly the same strategy in the 1980’s against the former Soviet Union, however, it has been far less successful the second time around. But meanwhile, in the interim, the strategy has created really big problems for the Saudi’s themselves, the US essentially won’t let them cease this strategy of gross over production, and it is driving the Saudi economy and cash reserves through the floor. If the Russian’s and Saudi’s are able to negotiate a reduced Saudi crude output level, and thus gently lift the barrel price, devoid of any US state input, it would actually benefit both states.

      • AMHants

        I still do not trust Saudi, but, they need Russia more than Russia needs Saudi and they know it. Sitting back, with the popcorn and watching how things develop. Your comment and another article, have provided food for thought, with a different way of looking at things. Thanks.

        • Bob

          You are correct, Saudi’s are fundamentally untrustworthy, but Russia may be able to dent the US’s hegemonic game, by pulling Saudi’s little closer into their orbit, sans any actual trust, lol.

          • AMHants

            Fingers crossed. I do believe the next few months are going to be interesting, as the two sides go head to head. China, Russia, Iran, and friends against US, Israel and the EU.

  • olim

    Contrary to the prophecies of Lenin, it is Russia who sells the West a rope on which she will be hanged.

  • Zainab Ali

    these zio wahabbis are out to destroy iran, and are responsible for all terrorism crimes … like their bedfellow israhell … no good will come from their alliance … God forbid

    • Serious Dude

      Israel and Saudi Arabia are enemies and have no diplomatic relations.

      • Garga

        Sure, sure.
        Also The war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorant is strength.

        • Serious Dude

          This is for radical Islam (including Shia islamism).

          • Garga

            Sure.
            Would you define Radical Shi’a Islamism? A few examples will help also. I’m open for a discussion.

          • Serious Dude

            Iran, Iraqi paramilitaries and Hezbollah.

          • Garga

            A.
            Good, That will do for a start, but I need reasons and you didn’t provide any definition.

            Now, tell us why you count them as radicals?

            For example, when I say ISIS are radical Wahhabis, there are numerous documents to back my claim: Their declared doctrine of fighting and killing all Shi’as, Christians, Atheists Sunnis that don’t submit to Caliphate and their actions (killings, beheading, burning alive, terror bombing) which are documented by themselves and outsiders.
            When I claim that Irgun is radical, there are also numerous documented actions which warrants using the term radical.

          • Terra Cotta Woolpuller

            100% agree as many of the leaders of both groups can be linked to the extremism nature of the various radical teachings of Wahhabi and Talmudic ideology.

          • Serious Dude

            Iran, Iraqi paramilitaries and Hezbollah are not as evil as ISIS but they are still sectarian. Even Erdogan didn’t want the PMU to take Tal Afar. In Iran, people are oppressed by this ultra-conservative state. Irgun is radical, okay.

          • Garga

            Please don’t dance around the subject.

            WHY you call them radicals. WHAT do they do to be radical? WHEN and WHERE that happened.

            FYI, we’re not oppressed by anyone, don’t talk in my place, thank you very much.

          • Serious Dude

            Search through the web on Iranian opposition sites. In Iran, there is still the death penalty. And women are forced to wear chador.

          • Garga

            B.
            You are dodging and I’m now sure you won’t provide neither the definition of Shi’a Radicalism nor ANY kind of reason for calling Iranians, PMU and Hizbollah as radicals. Even from the your “Iranian opposition sites”.

            FYI, sectarians do not tolerate other sects in their territories. Are you aware that Iranian armed forces, PMU and Hezbullah have Sunnis, Alawites, Christians and even Jews in their ranks? I’m sure you conveniently forget that little inconvenience.

            Women aren’t forced to wear chador in Iran. Do you even know what a chador is?
            Women are required a minimum coverage of body [and hair], so are men. And it’s the law in a some other countries too.

            Death penalty? So do more than 57 other countries according to Amnesty International, Apr. 2017, what’s your point? Are all of them radicals because of executions? The list includes the US, India and Japan too.
            A source:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country

            How about this:
            Republic of Macedonia claims Greece is stealing their heritage and are very vocal about it. Are we to accept their claim as well? After all, they have it on their “sites”.

          • Serious Dude
          • Garga

            C.
            Have you read the article you posted yourself?

            The article repeatedly calls Shia’s as radicals, but just like you doesn’t provide any evidence as to why at all.
            It counts Ismaelis as Shi’as just like you did in another discussion, and their actions as religious and forgets their political movement all together.
            It counts every single action of Shi’a population as radical, even when they confront an invading force. Since when defence became radicalization?
            Is there any terror acts done by Shi’as anywhere in the world? I’m sure you are happy to present US Marines’ barrack’s bombing in Beirut, 1983 as Hezbollah’s doing. But Hezbollah was created in 1985, the “Islamic Jihad” claimed the bombing and no one knows who they are, and it’s members were anonymous callers taking credit for terror acts. US “decided” they are Hezbollah in 2003!
            Source: Sacred Rage by Robin Wright, Simon & Schuster 2001, p73 – NYT Dec. 30, 1983, p46.

            So far this article was the only instance of you backing your words. I count it as the definition. Now only remains the reasons and evidence. Please note that an article is NOT an evidence, documented proof is.

            You didn’t provide a reason why you count Iran, Hezbollah and PMU as radicals, you didn’t provide a proof of why you call them sectarian (despite the opposite evidence).
            Death penalty is not a proof, as 58 countries have that capital punishment, including the US, India and Japan.

            Don’t ask me to search for what you claim. You have to provide it yourself or point to something that includes it.

          • Serious Dude

            I had job to do that’s why I didn’t reply to you.
            You think that Shia militias are good. Can I change your opinion? It is difficult. You cannot see any evidence because you don’t want to.
            Anyway, I believe that Iran is not so evil. If there is a reformation it will be good. Just like in Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, North Korea, etc…
            You like to speak about the Israeli occupation of Palestine but you have said no word about the Syrian occupation of Lebanon.
            “Republic of Macedonia” is a made up state while Israel exists for at least 3000 years. They are not the same.
            There are Christians and Jews in PMU just like there are whites in Black Lives Matter. Self-hate is a disease.
            You have called me an ultra-nationalist and a hardcore zionist in the past. We have a fascist party in Greece called Golden Dawn and they support Iran and Hezbollah. How about that?

          • Garga

            Of course you can change my mind if you provide proof.

            A few years ago I was standing right where you are now. My views changed as the proof was overwhelming. My opinion is not carved in stone, give me evidence and I come to your camp. Can you do the same?

            In any part of our discussion was anything related to Syrian occupation of Lebanon. You didn’t mention it, I didn’t mention it. Are we to talk about all the parts of the world under occupation?
            We can start talking about that AFTER we wrapped the current discussion, Happy now?
            FYI, Syria did that and stopped doing that. Not the same for Israel.

            Just like Zionists who use to call the Jews who oppose them as “self-hating”, you resorted to this when I provided the proof as why you can’t call Hezbollah, Iran or PMU as sectarian.

            I never called you an ultra-nationalist and hardcore Zionist. I said your view seems like them. Can’t you understand the difference?

            Finally, you are happy to accept what “Iranian Opposition Sites” claim but at the same time reject the Macedonian ones. You know, parts of ancient Macedonia IS located in RoM soil.

            I’m neither interested in nor find Republic of Macedonia’s claim a truthful one. I wanted to show you that not every claim published on a website is a right one.

            Israel certainly did NOT exist for 3000 years. There never was an Israel before 1948. The closest thing to that was Judea which ceased to exist almost 2000 years ago. No continuous Jewish presence in Palestine, unlike Assyrians and Chaldeans of Iraq and Syria. Can Turkey claim Greece’s soil because at some point in history Turks conquered it?

          • Serious Dude

            Changing your mind will mean nothing.
            I am not in any camp. There is no such thing as “camp”, only interests. Palestinians are Turkey-friendly, why should I support them?
            Israel doesn’t occupy Lebanon but it occupies Golan Heights. It is Syria’s problem, not mine.
            That article was very good. Shia islamists are anti-imperialist and want to be left alone while Sunni islamists are imperialist. That’s the difference.
            Adnan Oktar says that Israel-Iran conflicts are a myth created by the British deep state (Tavistock). Do you agree with this?
            My views are patriotic (nationalism is ignorance) and moderate pro-Zionist.
            I have read only 1 Iranian opposition site. Macedonians were never Slavs, end of story.
            From the times of David and Solomon maybe? Israelites were a Levantine people alongside Phoenicians and Arameans. Chaldeans were also Levantines and don’t exist anymore. Assyrian Christians are some of the most ancient Christians of the world.

          • Garga

            D.
            You asked yourself “Can I change your opinion?” and I said Yes you can.

            You need more reading about the subjects you claim. Have you heard the Shebaa Farms?

            I don’t want you to support Palestinians, I just think it would be nice not to eat whatever Zionists claim. Israel has very good relations with Turkey, is that your only beef with Palestinians?

            There’s no such thing as a Shi’a extremism, Radicalism or Sectarianism. The core idea of Shi’a philosophy is against extremism and tolerance of other religions. If you think otherwise, you also need an example to suggest they are so.

            Perhaps Adnan Oktar is right. I don’t have all the evidence needed to confirm it, but there was reports of Iran and Israel cooperation in the past, like bombing of Iraq’s Osirak reactor.
            So you accept I never called you whatever you said I called you?

            You only read just 1 Iranian opposition site and still refer me to their “sites”? Plural?

            RoM population are Slavs and not of Greek origins, so they have no claim on Macedonia, right?
            2.8million of Israeli population and almost all of their leaders are Ashkenazis (originated from Scythia) and not of Beni-Israel origin, how come they can have a claim on Palestine and RoMacedonia can’t?

          • Serious Dude

            If I change your opinion then there are millions of others that cannot change so it is pointless. Shebaa farms? Never heard of it. Israel has neutral relations with Turkey while there are many Turkish people who support Hamas and Hamas supports Turkey. Yes, this is my main beef. If there is no such thing as Shia extremism that’s good because Hezbollah wants more blood. Yes, I don’t accept it. And I meant site not sites. After the conquest of Jerusalem by the Romans, Judahites probablly left Jerusalem and went into Eastern Europe and became the Askhenazi Jews and they came back. On the other hand, those Vaardaskans are a Bulgarian tribe that came much later.

          • Garga

            E.
            Shebaa Farms is the part of Lebanon under Israeli occupation, that’s why I suggested for more reading before forming an opinion.

            Good to know that your instance towards a country is based on it’s relations with Israel, not your own country. You are a true patriot Sir!

            Hezbullah wants more blood? Repeating something without providing a proof, again. Hezbullah is fighting the extremists which are killing Muslims and Christians and are very friendly towards Israel, even apologized after a stray bullet hit occupied Golan (according to Moshe Ya’alon, Hebrew University, Jan 18th, 2017) while burning Muslims and Christians alive. So fighting head-choppers is equal to wanting more blood for you?

            Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic roots in Middle East and are of Central and Eastern European origin. Proof? Funny you should ask for it! Here you go:
            http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37821/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

            And there was no continuous presence of Jews in Palestine since Roman conquest, unlike Palestinians. Being somewhere sometime doesn’t legitimize your claim to any land. Rome conquered almost all of Europe 2000 years ago, how about giving all Europe to Italians?

          • Serious Dude

            They are occupying them because Israel is winning the battles. Again that’s not my problem. Palestinians are liked by anti-European parties of the left, neonazis and conspiracy theorists! Tell me your friend to tell you who you are, that’s what us Greeks say. SDF also fights ISIS but Assad-fanatics don’t like them because they are supposedly a Zionist project. “While it is clear that Ashkenazi maternal ancestry includes both Levantine [Near Eastern] and European origins—the assignment of several of the major Ashkenazi lineages to pre-historic European origin in the current study is incorrect in our view.” This is it. Those Palestinians don’t have an independent non-Jew, non-Arab, non-anything else Palestine but they are bound by the false ideology of Pan-Arabism just like those “Macedonians” are inspired by the false ideology of Pan-Slavism! Don’t compare apples to peas! But I thought that Pan-Arabism was claimed as a false ideology by Khomeini and his drones.

          • Garga

            F.
            You claimed “Israel doesn’t occupy Lebanon”, Shebaa Farms prove you claim something false AGAIN. Israel occupied south Lebanon too but Hezbollah kicked it’s bottom out.

            Now you try to justify their land grab. Winning the battle? Ottomans won the battles against Greece and occupied it, Was it right? Germany and Italy did the same 70 years ago, was it right?

            Palestinians just want their homes back (that much I support), they don’t care about Pan-Arabism. You again are claiming something which doesn’t exist, and are not going to provide any proof, again.
            Just like Zionists, repeat something without proof.

            Perhaps you deserve something like RoMacedonia, to find out the taste of something robbed from you. But I hope you never share the pain of Palestinians. I don’t wish it for anybody.

          • Serious Dude

            I haven’t said that Israel doesn’t occupy parts of Lebanon, I have said that I don’t know. Land grabs have existed since the beginning of time. We have grabbed lands from Turks and Bulgarians. And? Palestinian nationalism is part of the corrupted ideology of pan-Arabism. Look at what Palestine Authority says about Iran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Palestine_relations. Look also at how all Arab countries support the Maoist insurgency in India: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars. Not having proof is one thing, not looking at proof that breaks your prejudice is another. Perhaps I deserve, perhaps you deserve … making sensational claims doesn’t make Hamas or PLO correct.

          • Garga

            That’s weak, don’t deny what you wrote. Go up to your own 3-4 last comments, it’s in the 4th line.
            If you didn’t know, all right, just admit that you learnt it now and won’t claim the false again, now that you’re informed. Whatever you do, don’t lie.

            Pan Arabism died some decades ago, Kicking the dead?

            Priceless!! Go to the Wikipedia page you sent me link from (about what Palestine Authority says about Iran) and go to the footnote which is it’s reference: IT DOESN”T EXIST! It goes to a “Haaretz” page which diesn’t exist.

            Remember, Wikipedia is a very weak reference because anybody can edit it. You have to look at it’s references at the bottom of the page, they are the real source.

            Why do I care what Arab countries do? Even if I care, what does have to do with your claim of “bloodthirsty Hezbollah”? Since when did I became Arabs’ spokesman?
            More over, the Wiki page you refered to lists 2 insurgencies in India and in BOTH, Iran backs India. You see? In Naxalite–Maoist insurgency, too bad, you didn’t notice my own country, Iran, backs India against Maoists. Again you failed my dear boy.

            Having a proof of what? So far you provided 2 wiki pages:
            1- with an empty reference (from an Israeli site, mind you)
            2- confirming my own country stands with India

            You have to do much much better than that. You can at least read your “proof” before posting them, so you don’t seem like a clueless feller.

            By repeating a lie you can’t make it truth.

          • Serious Dude

            Again, that’s the circle you are doing to avoid the subject. Circular logic is a failure.
            Everything I claim is a lie while everything you claim is the truth. I got it.
            Those Palestinians want to bring the dead alive. They even hate the governments of Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia because they are supposedly “traitors of the Palestinian struggle”. See? The Palestinian Authority doesn’t like your government because it supports Hamas.
            Wikipedia is a free website, well at least if agents of the Anglo-American deep state and agents of Big Pharma, Big Oil and Monsanto make their moves.
            Oh my bad. You are Persian yet you support an ideology that wants to destroy Iran. Not all Arabs are bad though. The Golden Age of Islam was good actually. Rene Guenon was a good philosopher (French convert to Sufism) and I also like the Persian Seyyed Hossein Nasr (long time to listen to him, also Sufi). Fundamentalism (both Sunni and Shia) are by-products of the modern system of governance. On one hand, we have the atheist-materialist outlook and on the other hand, we have the fundamentalist one.
            Want some truth? Pre-Khomeini Iran was pro-Israel, many Circassians, Egyptians, Berbers, Kurds, Assyrians, Bedouins and Levantines support Israel and are getting enrolled in the IDF (especially Bedouins and Levantine Druzes). Even many from the Arabia are pro-Israel but they cannot come out of the closet because they fear their persecution. On the other hand, who is against Israel? Sunni and Shia fanatics, edgy communists and neonazis, fanatic heretical ultra-orthodox Jews and the conspiracy lunatic fringe.
            Anyway what’s your opinion on Burma and the Rohingyas? Personally, I may find Burma military brutal but on the other hand they don’t want to become like Philippines (Marawi).

          • Garga

            You deny what you wrote yourself. And now I’m the bad guy?
            I don’t avoid anything. If something is forgotten, remind me.

            You claim many things, but don’t back them with proof.
            Wikipedia on itself has no value, but it’s SOURCEs does. The link you provided has a dead link reference. Means no reference. The other page regarding insurgency in India, tells us Iran is against them and supports India, contrary to your claim which backs Maoists.

            Again you repeat Shi’a fundamentalism (which started our discussion in the first place). That’s what I want to know. You either have a proof of Shi’a fundamentals (actions, something) or don’t, end of story.
            Shi’a philosophy is one with Iran, you can’t separate one from another and it certainly doesn’t want destroy the country. Zionism wants to do destroy not only Iran, but anybody who is able to resist.

            So if an Arab is in IDF it’s right, but if a Jew is in Iran’s army he’s self-hating? More so, I didn’t claim IDF is sectarian, you did with Iran, PMU and Hezbollah and said Christians, Jews and Sunnis in them are self-hating. Or are you going to deny that too?.

            Nice of you to ask. I am %100 against the Jihadi groups which commit terror against both Myanmar government and ordinary Rohingyas. I think the Rohingya villagers were denied some basic rights, but now lost whatever little they had because of these Jihadis (created, funded, supported as usual by Saudis and US, need proof?). I support Myanmar on their battle against Jihadis, but don’t support them on things they do to the villagers.
            I also fully support Philippines against ISIS. You see, the problem is ISIS and ISIS-minded terror groups, from Libya and Syria to Myanmar and Philippines, which I, Iran, Hezbollah and PMU are against.

          • Serious Dude

            I haven’t said that Iran supports insurgents. However, Syria does.
            You agree that Sunni fundamentalism exists but you say that Shia fundamentalism is a myth. We will see in the near future.
            Zionism doesn’t want to destroy Iran. The only groups resisting Zionism these days are a bunch of fanatics.
            IDF are not sectarian while PMU and Hezbollah are. Just tell me how many Jewish MPs there are in Arab countries and how many Arab MPs there are in Israel. And the countries that have Christian MPs like Iraq, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan and even Syria are due to western influence.
            US has supported Philippines in their struggle against ISIS.

          • Garga

            Yes, I say Shi’a and Extremism are opposite poles, you deny it? Fine. Just provide an example of extremism or fundamentalism by Shi’as. I provided numerous reasons in our discussions in this very page as why they are not.
            The examples for Wahhabi (I didn’t say Sunni) extremism and fundamentalism are countless: ISIS, AQ, HTS and many other alphabet soups. They murder ALL (Sunni, Shi’a, Christian), by beheading, crucifixion, bullet, burning alive, terror bomb cities all over the world and declared they are intended to “clean” the land they control of all other religions.

            No such examples for Shi’as. Is there? Either provide proof and example or stop repeating lies.

            So far your reasons for calling Iran (or Shi’as) as extremist were forcing women to wear Chador (not true, but there’s a minimum coverage required for both men and women, not unique to Shi’a) and death penalty (which 58 countries including US, Japan and India have too).

            You again repeat PMU and Hezbollah are sectarian and refuse to accept that you can’t be sectarian if you have followers of other sects (Zoroastrian, Sunni, Yezidi, Christian, Jewish as well as Shi’a) in your ranks while at the same time you claim it’s the reason IDF is not sectarian.

            Regarding Jewish MPs, I can tell you what we have in Iran. In every country the number of PMs are related to the population. We have 1 exclusively Jewish, 2 Armenian Christians, 1 Zoroastrian and 1 for Assyrian and Chaldean Christians, in addition to non exclusive PMs they choose. In Iran there is 1 PM per about every 275,000 population. Religious minorities exclusive PMs per population is far greater than norm.
            Arab countries are not my concern and not related to our discussion about Shi’as.
            We had Christian MPs since our 1st parliment and it certainly is not because of “western influence”.

            Zionism tries to destroy all ME for Israel, not just Iran. I’d be happy to provide proof in case you need it.
            Any informed person who values their country, sovereignty and freedom and knows Zionists’ ways opposes it. You don’t? Good for you. I’m sure there are great benefits supporting the Zionism for you.

            US created ISIS (friendly to Israel, remember Moshe Ya’alon quote I provided?) everywhere with the help of their Wahhabi friends, fighting your creation doesn’t seem a positive action as long as you continue supporting it.

          • Serious Dude

            You say that Houthis, Hezbollah and PMU are not sectarian. Fine, then why Erdogan didn’t want PMU to take part in Tal Afar operation due to fears about sectarian killings?
            I am not repeating lies, I am asking.
            Two great videos about Israel-Palestine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76NytvQAIs0, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAOzlinU94g
            Death penalty is brutal and barbaric. Some people may deserve it but it is still bad.
            Ah I see you only care for Iran. It is good that Iran elected a reformist (Rouhani).
            Zionism wants a state for Israel. Everything else is a lie. And Israel is not to blame for the failure of Assad. You seem to have an obssession for Zionism, don’t you? I was in the same position when I used to read lunatic fringe sites like David Icke, Henry Makow and Veterans Today.
            Israel also helps Egypt fight ISIS.

          • Garga

            We never talked about Houthis, but I said so about Iran, Hezbollah and PMU. Don’t create an escape path.

            Why on earth should I answer for Erdogan’s policies and opinions?
            Dude, either provide a proof of they being sectarian and extremists or stop repeating lies!

            It doesn’t matter if you call it “asking”. You accuse them to be something which they are not. You need to provide proof, not repeat the accusation. It won’t work.

            Sorry, I don’t have time for cartoons, if it’s not related to your accusation of Shi’as being extremists and sectarians. Is it?
            Arab world is not my concern. For this discussion my concern is that you back your claims and accusations by proof.

            Having a death penalty (good or bad, I personally absolutely support it for drug smugglers) doesn’t make a country extremist.
            Zionism requires all major countries of the ME weakened and disintegrated in so that Israel can be a power here. It’s not a lie and I will give you proof from major Zionists personas if you never heard about it.
            Of course Zionism is important for me, it threatens my country and my life. I would be an idiot if I don’t care.
            I don’t read Icke or Makow, I find them greatly misleading. Good for you to have that experience.

            Regarding ISIS in Sinai, one needs to ask how ISIS appeared in Sinai in the first place? They can’t come from Gaza strip which is under heavy blockade and even humanitarian aid needs to be passed through Israel. The machinery and equipment ISIS use can not go through Hamas’s tunnels, as we all saw the footage of the tunnels that are very narrow and one can pass them crouched on foot and the Egyptian territory close to Gaza is under heavy surveillance. One possibility remains: A country bordering both ISIS territory (in Syria) and Sinai. But for this moment it also is not of my concern.

            Seeing the proof of Iran, PMU and Hezbollah being sectarian and extremist is my concern for this discussion.

          • Serious Dude

            Again the circular logic. Aren’t you bored of this debate?
            Even Erdogan said that. What do you want more?
            You don’t want to see any proof except your own. These 2 “cartoons” are truthful.
            Arab world is not your concern. Then Palestine shouldn’t be your concern because Palestine is part of the Arab world.
            The problem is how the death penalty is used. If it is used for political opponents then there is bad.
            Stop this misleading opinion about Zionism! Zionism only wants the creation of an Israeli state. And it doesn’t threaten your life!
            So you say that ISIS was created by Israel right? Well the local Bedouins say that extremist organization are created due to illiteracy and fanaticism. Sinai is the Egyptian governorate with the most illiterate people.
            Anyway, do you know that in Libya Iran supports not Khalifa Haftar but the Islamists?
            If you don’t want to see the proof then it is not my problem.

          • Garga

            You always jump sideways. What I want is proof, what actions Iran, Hezbollah and PMU do so you call them extremist and sectarian. That’s what I want.
            You don’t provide ANY, just repeat the accusation. Give me the proof and I’ll accept it. You want me to accept Erdogan’s opinion as a proof? Really?

            Nothing else is my concern “on this discussion”. It started on this subject, it has to wrap it up. Proof of them being extremist and sectarian.

            I fully agree with you, %100 on political execution.

            I said I will provide you with evidence as I think Zionism is threatening my country and I shall provide.

            I didn’t say Israel created ISIS, don’t twist my words. I said ISIS is friendly to Israel (posted you the proof from Moshe Ya’alon himself) and said there is another possibility for ISIS to appear in Sinai.

            You know that illiteracy cannot create weapons, war machines and bulldozers out of thin air. They must come from somewhere. The question is where? But it’s not our discussion, is it? It can be though, after we wrapped this up.

            I didn’t know Iran supports Islamists of Libya. Are you going to post a link for that or I have to accept it after you repeated it a few times?

            I know ISIS claimed responsibility for bombing of the Iranian ambassador’s residence in Tripoli. Do you mean we support the same guys?

            If you give me a proof, which you evade to, I’ll see it. It’s really easy. Post ONE document which backs your claim about Iran, Hezbollah and PMU are extremists and sectarians (like what I did when I claimed ISIS is Israel friendly, I gave you proof from an Israeli official, not from an enemy of Israel). Something that proves they commit terror acts, acts of extremism and sectarianism.

            Piece of cake, there must be numerous, right?

            Or alternatively you can admit that you have no proof and therefore wrong and I’ll leave it.

            Or finally you can suddenly end this discussion doing neither.

            It’s really your choice. I don’t spend a lot of time just for 1 person. I spend the time and energy for other readers which may read our discussion.

            This may help them decide which party of this discussion is right.

          • Serious Dude

            Again, the same thing. I think we should stop our debate because it leads to nowhere.

          • Garga

            As you wish, You may do one of these 3:
            1- Giving proof. One itty bitty document.
            2- Admitting that there’s no proof
            3- Leaving the discussion with no further talk

            I’m happy with whichever you choose. I enjoy our little discussion.
            After it’s wrapped, I shall post the proof of why I think Zionism wants to destroy my country and region, if you are still interested.

          • Serious Dude

            Look at a good website that I have found recently: https://iakal.wordpress.com/
            He talks about several things like the creation of Bolshevism by the Germans (it was not the Jews), the Iran-Sudan-Hezbollah-Al Qaeda axis (which was broken by the Syrian war and the Yemeni war) and the creation of a new axis Turkey-Iran-Pakistan-China against West-Russia-India-US. Very good geopolitical site.

          • Garga

            Aren’t you smart?
            Finding a fourth way, hmm.. :) Continue with an unrelated subject….

            Which part? All of it!? That’s a big blog. He talks a lot but he too doesn’t give any proof of why he says what he says. For example he says Iran paid Obama to destroy fracking in US. Proof? None, zero, zilch. He just claims and repeats.
            Which part should I look into?

            ————————————————

            Maybe you don’t know what do proof or evidence look like?
            It can be an interview with the same person or group we accuse,
            It can be a website of the same group we accuse which incriminate them,
            It can be a footage showing they do what we accuse them to do,
            It can be also documented by other parties, by examining footage, audio, photo, written documents and so on.

            It is not in repetition, it is not in wishful thinking. It is not in someone’s opinion.
            Here’s a wiki page with useful info about evidence:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence

          • Serious Dude

            Unrelated subject? Everything is related to each other.
            I have read in this website that Obama is a Shiite muslim. I believe that Obama was a Sunni before his conversion and then he became a democratic socialist.
            What do you say about the axis Iran-Sudan-Hezbollah-Al Qaeda? Also what do you say about the support of Al Qaeda to Hezbollah in the 2006 South Lebanon battle? Also what do you say about the good relation of Latin American drug cartels to anti-American governments of Iran, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Cuba and to Hezbollah? Personally, I am neutral towards USA however I support Trump. Most Americans are batshit crazy and evil people (psychopaths).
            Geopolitics is a theoretical science and not a positive science to have evidence like that. In geopolitics nothing is set in stone. Alliances change and new alliances are formed. For example, when Serbia and Albania clash, I support Serbia. When Albania and FYROM clash, I support Albania. When Turkey and Kurdistan clash, I support Kurdistan. When Turkey and ISIS clash, I support Turkey. When US and Russia clash, I support Russia. There are several points to be taken:
            -Iran and Muslim Brotherhood were friends before their proxies clashed in Syria. The only countries that still support the Palestinians are Iran and Qatar.
            -SAA and ISIS rarely clashed before 2016. ISIS was a frienemy of SAA. SAA probably used ISIS to destroy moderate FSA militants and Syrian Kurds. SAA only started assaulting ISIS when Syrian Kurds were winning and they would take the oil fields.
            -Zionism just wants a state for Israel. Nothing more nothing less.
            -There is a high probability that Syria will be dismembered into 4 smaller states. One Levantine-Alawite-Druze in the Mediterranean which will be backed by Iran and Russia. One north in Aleppo which will be backed by Turkey and Qatar. One northeast in Mesopotamia and Deir-Ez-Zor which will be backed by US and Kurdistan (and probably UAE). One south in Damascus which will be backed by Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

          • Garga

            Unrelated to this discussion. We can always start a new one, but after we finished it.

            So, I withhold my opinion about what you wrote just now, and will wait for you to provide me an evidence of Iran, Hezbullah and PMU are sectarian and extremist. (The very same thing we started to discuss on). Or admitting that there’s no evidence and you claimed falsely.

            After you kindly backed or left your claims, I’d be happy to talk about whatever you want.

          • Serious Dude

            You seem offended that I called Iran, Hezbollah and PMU sectarian. What do you want as proof? Dead bodies of non-Shias and political opponents? We are on the internet, not on the court. After all, you have claimed that Zionism is destructive to Iran, which is false because pre-Khomeini Iran had perfect relations with Israel. So the opposition to Israel is not geopolitical but ideological. Israel never threatened Iran but Iran is always threatening Israel and want to build ballistic missiles to strike Jerusalem. Oh and our extremist party called Golden Dawn also likes Khomeini and Hezbollah. If you, and other anti-Israel comrades, hate Israel then fine but all of you should not complain anymore.

          • Garga

            I defined the kind of proof I need to accept your claim. Certainly what Erdogan or anybody else THINKS (it’s called opinion) is not among them.
            For example a footage of Shi’as killing others, a video, audio or text from them promoting sectarianism will do. Such proofs are in abundant for Wahhabi terror groups, so provide me one regarding Shi’as.

            It’s not a court, so feel free to abandon the discussion whenever you like it. It’s the same as not having proof.

            As I said, I will give you the proof as why I think Zionism wants to destroy the region and my country, AFTER we conclude the matter which started this discussion.

            We can cover what Iran and Israel do or want to do to each other in another discussion too, but not until we conclude the current one.

            So, my dear friend, do you have any proof or you want to continue the dance?

          • Serious Dude

            In geopolitics there are claims. Either true, false or half true/half false.
            I am not a Wahhabi so I cannot give you an information. If you want information like that then you should contact a Wahhabi.
            Thinking is not the same as existing. There is no threat for Iran. Proof is the good relations between Israel and Iran before 1979.

          • Garga

            No they are not. An opinion is always an opinion.

            You are again twisting my word. I don’t want you to give me info about Wahhabi terror groups, I said it is the example of the kind of proof, What I want is you to back your claim about Shi’as being sectarian and extremism. Nothing else

            Iran and Israel relations will remain to be discussed later, after you either 1- post the proof or 2- admitted there isn’t any proof, by words or by leaving.

          • Serious Dude

            It is not my opinion but the opinion of many analysts. That’s why they are called Shia groups and not let’s say Lebanese or Iraqi groups. Sectarianism is on religion, nationalism is on ethnicity. Sectarianism doesn’t mean beheading civilians and killing everyone else. Zionism is a form of moderate nationalism. But it is still not a threat to Iran. It may be a threat to Jordan or to Lebanon but not to Iran.

          • Garga

            They are called by some as Shi’a group because they are an entity with name, goal and structure. Just like we don’t call the American parties as an American group, but by their name as Republican or Democrat party.

            Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred against other sects in it’s most benign form, and eradicating them all together in malign form. So they must do something between the two to be sectarian.

            I’m not going to enter a debate about Zionism at this moment as it will be a long one and we didn’t finish this one yet. However I’m game after we reached to a conclusion in this one.

            Now, if you don’t have an evidence to back your claim that’s fine. Just
            say you don’t have it and don’t try to present an opinion as a fact anymore.

            What it’s gonna be? Will you admit that claim of “Iran, Hezbollah and PMU being sectarian and extremist” is just your opinion and cannot be backed by evidence or will you present a proof to back it?

          • Serious Dude

            Both Republicans and Democrats are not American parties but ideological parties. Ideology is for the politically dumb people. That’s what it destroyed America. I thought that sectarianism was just preference of one religion over another. In your definition, Iran and Hezbollah are not sectarian. However, Iran wants to bring a strong Shiite state in order to destroy Israel, take Jerusalem and bring the supposed Mahdi. Do you also believe that? And if you have any proof about Zionism please don’t bring American conspiracy sites because Americans are batshit crazy.

          • Garga

            It’s not “my” definition, it’s the English literature’s definition for the word. Here’s a link:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarianism
            If you prefer a religion to another, it’s a preference. All people do that, even Atheists.
            That’s why in my second reply to you, I asked: “Would you define Radical Shi’a Islamism?”
            So, that’s about sectarianism. Please look up the definition and tell me that do you admit they are not sectarian?
            What about they being extremists?

            But now you say something equally false.
            Shi’a believes that Mahdi will come (with Jesus Christ) when the world is full of injustice and oppression. Nobody knows when, but he will come. Shi’a can’t help to spread oppression or injustice in the hope to bring his appearance closer. We cannot “bring” the Mahdi, we can’t cheat. We can’t oppress other people to speed it up as it’s the opposite of what we stand for.
            Israel has no special place in his appearance, as there was no Israel before 70 years ago.
            The last time we took Jerusalem we freed the Jews, gave it to them and helped them to rebuild their temple. :)

            I’ll present the proof from known Zionists, direct quote. Is that good enough for you?

          • Serious Dude

            The article says that the Syrian civil war is a sectarian colflict and I agree with this. Yeah, they are many atheists that are sectarian like those Dawkins lovers. Radical Shia Islamism is the belief that the Shias should control the whole world.

            You are going to give Jerusalem to the Jews? It is already on the Jews!

            About the mahdi: http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Kalachakra_Prophets:_Mehdi,_Kalki_Avatar_and_the_Messiah

          • Garga

            Of course it is, but not from the Syrian, Iranian, Russian and Hezbollah side, but the ones who are sectarians based on their beliefs and actions, documented by thousands.

            Based on that definition, there’s no Shi’a Islamism. Is there one single example of Shi’a attack on any country, like in the history of the world?

            World domination needs conquering, does it not?

            If you want to know about the Mahdi, ask the people who believe in him, not Chinese Buddhists. Do you ask your question about the Christ from them too?

            Back to the matter: Sectarian, extremist, Proof, no proof?

          • Serious Dude

            Russia has nothing to do with them because Russia only wants to defeat extremism in order not to have problems in the Caucasus.
            So if Hezbollah fights with Israel, will they use suicide attacks against them?
            Buddhism believes about the Mahdi. There are prophecies about Jesus and Muhammad in the Vedic scriptures also. All religions have common (Vedic) root. Christ is from the Hebrew nation which was an ancient priestly caste in nortwest India called Kalani, as Aristotle has said.
            Some commenters on SF have said to me that I am on the Mossad/CIA payroll. Maybe they are the ones with no proof.

          • Garga

            If by Hezbollah, you mean a Shi’a and by suicide attack, you mean suicide bombing, like a suicide vest or VBIED, then No, not possible. No way a Shi’a does a suicide attack. Not in a million years. Never, ever. But the same person may voluntarily lay on a hand grenade and sacrifices himself in order to save a few others.
            In other words, he will never commits suicide to kill enemy but may sacrifice himself to save his friends.

            You ought to seek the truth about the matters in their source. Words change when quoted by others. That’s how I reached the conclusion on Zionism’s aim of destroying my country and the region, ‘by reading and listening to the Zionists’, not the likes of Icke which you mentioned before.

            There are a few Hasbarats in the comment section but I don’t think you are one of them, no.
            I know you are not, that’s why I started and continued the discussion with you. You have different opinion and that’s all there is.

            I have a few more words regarding this one, but first, allow me to ask you a somehow personal question: May I ask your age range and gender?

          • Serious Dude

            Too good to be true. If there is a war between Israel and Hezbollah then Hezbollah will be destroyed.
            You mean the quotes by Menachem Begin and that Iraqi Jew cleric who said that the soul of a gentile is equal to that of an animal?
            Age between 20 and 25 and gender male.
            Who are those hasbarats?

          • Garga

            As I said before, their actions don’t lie. There hasn’t been one Shi’a suicide bomber, there hasn’t been a Shi’a nation or group starting an invasion or aggression.
            You can also look how Hezbollah fought Israel’s invasion of Lebanon (all of them). Not only it wasn’t destroyed, but today Hezbollah is even stronger than then.
            We can’t predict the future, we can only guess. I hope Israel never attempts another attack on Lebanon, but if it does, we shall see what will happen.

            No, while it’s an awful thing to say, it doesn’t say anything about destruction of the region.

            Hasbara in Hebrew (הַסְבָּרָה) means “explaining something”. It’s actually an army of keyboard warriors and media “experts” who try to paint Israel in a more favourable light, show the awful things done by them as unimportant or justify them, and verbally attack anything and anyone opposing Zionism and Israel by ridiculing, false information, half truth or plain character assassination. Hasbarat is a person working for Hasbara. They usually consist of students who receive a salary based on their activity.
            Hasbara Fellowship is an Israeli organization which brings students to Israel, trains them and and sends them back to be Israeli activist in their campuses and answers to the Israeli ministry of foregin affairs. According to them, they hired more than 2000 students

            in US and Canada alone.

            Why I asked your age and said you’re not a Hasbarat? Despite our differences, I like you and enjoy talking to you, even when you do your best to drive me crazy!

            You are polite and are aware of the matters more than your age requires and not afraid to ask about the thing which you don’t know. I congratulate your parents for raising a son like you. You are young and can have a bright future. My only advice to you, as someone who is probably at the same age as your parents (I’m quadragenarian) is don’t ever forget what they did for you; and that in every matter, regardless of the subject, look at both sides. Hear what they say and see what they do and get your information directly from the source. Not only in politics but in life. Paying attention to just one side affects your judgement.

            I wish you the best there is. Say hi to your parents for me.

          • Serious Dude

            Then why Ayatollah Khomeini has a bad reputation in Europe?
            If Israel goes full attack then Lebanon is doomed. The Shiite Lebanon because the Maronites maybe will support Israel.
            The so called Mahdi has probably come centuries ago. I don’t know about dajjal though.
            I haven’t heard about Hasbara.

          • Garga

            It’s the result of 40 years of demonizing. Before the revolution he was at the center of media attention, when he resided in Neauphle-le-Cahteau, France. He was very respected, just have a look at his pictures and the way Air France’s 747 captian interacts with him. After the revolution when it became clear he’s not going to pay any tribute, he became a bad guy.

            You said something awful in your last reply: “too good to be true”, your mind is so biased, you cannot accept that they are basically human beings who appreciate life and despite no evidence whatsoever that Hezbollah ever done a terror attack, let alone a suicide one. Shi’a religion recognizes suicide as a great sin, destroyer of the afterlife and absolutely prohibits it.
            It’s the same in all sects of Islam (like Christianity) except Salafi Wahhabism, evident by ALL the documented suicide attacks to this date which was done only by them.

            If Israel attack Lebanon again and like last times target civilians, Hezbollah is going to teach them a lesson they never forget. Israel has been warned not to attack civilians and if it does so, then Hezbollah will respond in kind, and if Maronites betray Lebanon and side with Israel, other Lebanese Christians will deal with them.
            It remains to be seen, they won’t do it if Israel does not attack.

            I believe you really ought to add some other sources to the ones you get information from. You know nothing about the ones you accuse and completely ignore the real and proven culprits of terror. Never read anything about Shi’as and yet assume all kinds of things about them. In a rare case you read something about them, it’s from others, usually the ones who oppose them.

            It’s useless now to talk about the Mahdi, as you know very little or none about Sh’ia religion. Perhaps when you knew the absolute basics about it, if you ever do.
            Have you read Talmud? You’ll find the things it says about Jesus Christ most amusing, if you have the stomach to read it. The copy I have is in Hebrew, I don’t know if you can read it, but English copies exist too.

            At the end of the line, it’s all up to you. You have the potential and all the tools you need to better yourself. How you use it I don’t know, and only care to a certain point. I don’t want you accept my point of view, I’d like you to seek the truth yourself. When I become sure you are not interested in fairly researching the matters which you discuss with me, then why should I care and continue?
            Take care.

          • Serious Dude

            I don’t know but here in Greece he is not liked. Not to mention the imprisonment of thousands of his enemies.
            I don’t say that about Shia religion but about Shia militant groups. In your opinion they are not extremist but we still haven’t had proof either they are or they are not. However, this website is about Syria and not Iran or Israel.
            There is a rumor that Wahhabism was created by British agents to corrupt Islam and to destroy the Ottomans. The Ottomans were good people and liked the Hellenic civilization while the Kemalists are evil.
            Also, I have previously said that Assad’s party was founded by members of Fabian Society. Yeah, that society that supports abortions, eugenics (or maybe dysgenics) and other things like that.
            I am sorry if I insulted the Shia religion. Shias are better than Sunnis, especially the edgy ones. The Tibetan prophecy considers the Arab as the evil one while the Arab Muslim prophecy considers the Tibetan as the evil one. On the other hand, the Hindu prophecy says that Kalki will come in 427,000 years and he will usher a Golden Age of mankind (no wars, humans will have 10 times the height of nowadays humans and will live for 1000 years just like Adam and Eve).
            There are rumors about the Talmud which supposedly goes against Jesus but I don’t believe them. We need to advise many rabbis to know about the truth.
            There is nothing wrong with your opinions. Your nice words are welcomed.

          • Garga

            When there’s no evidence of doing something, it usually means they didn’t.
            For example, I have no evidence of you stealing my phone. Can I say you probably stole it because I have no evidence of you not doing it? That’s fallacy.
            The burden of proof (look it up) is always on the accuser, in this case you are the accuser, which refuses to show evidence.
            Nice try, we don’t talk about this website, go back, all the way up is case you forgotten why we started this debate.

            That’s the first time I hear a Greek says Ottomans were nice. Greeks are still angry of them blowing up the Parthenon (even by accident).

            I haven’t heard about any Arab prophecy regarding Tibetans. If I want info about Tibetans I go to Tibetans and If I need to know about Arabs, I’ll ask Arabs. It’s not such a bad idea if you too do the same.

            Regarding Talmud, maybe it’s better if you don’t listen to the rumors and read it yourself, just like Bible and Qur’an. Pity my Hebrew copy can’t help you, it’s quite old and reliable.
            There are some people who claim Qur’an says Muslims must kill all non-Muslims. When I ask them which verse, they can’t answer because they never read Qur’an and there’s no such thing in it, they just read something in some website and believe it. So, don’t listen to rumors, find a copy and read it yourself. You can find all religious book online for crying out loud!

          • Serious Dude

            I am not the only accuser though. There are many that accuse Shiite groups. But you say that opinions don’t matter.
            Don’t say irrelevant things. The stealing of a phone has nothing to do with war. In war, everyone is bad until they are proven good.
            Ottomans were both good and bad. Not to mention that many of them were of Greek origin.
            The one side in the prophecy says that the leader of the mlecchas (nations of middle east) will wage war against India while the other side says that a king of the east will wage war on the Muslims. This war has probably happened centuries ago. However, the other great prophecy about the end of the world will be in 427,000 years when the mahayuga ends and the golden age begins. Prophecies are misunderstood. For example, some Christian fundamentalists are scared about the so called antichrist on the book of revelation while the so called antichrist has already come centuries ago (Nero).
            Cultural marxism is 100 times worse than the so called Zionism. In my country, a law was constructed for people to change their gender without operation.
            The problem with many religions is that they are ignorant and sectarian. Not only with Islam but with Christianity also (especially the English-speaking Protestants). Another mistake that many Western and Islamic religions make is that they consider time to be linear while it is cyclical. Also, many Western and Islamic religions believe that the beginning of a person’s life is in the time of birth and the person only lives once and then he goes to an eternal destination. This is the non-holist extremist view of the ignorant people and that’s why many resort to materialism and nihilism.

          • Garga

            In this discussion you are the accuser. Accusation needs proof even if thousands accuse someone, as long as they don’t prove it, it’s meaningless.
            In the example the principal is the same. When I accuse you of doing something wrong and cannot prove you did it, It doesn’t fall on you to prove your innocence when the claim is mine. This wrong can be stealing a phone or doing terror attacks. Doesn’t matter.

            Not every party in a war is guilty. It doesn’t make any sense to say the people which never attacked anyone and are just defending their homeland are guilty.
            It’s not really difficult: A war between 2 parties, one party is destroying civilians’ lives, not only in Syria and Iraq, but also around the world, doing terror attack, suicide bombing and killing with the most horrific methods, claiming responsibility for their terror acts and numerous documents prove they are slavers, human traffickers and human-organ harvesters. The other party never attacked any country, never did any terror act, defending civilians of every faith against the first one. Yet you say they are both guilty. I hope you recognize the irony in that.

            I give you another example of demonizing Iran. During the war that Saddam’s Iraq imposed on Iran (1980-88), Saddam’s army used chemical weapons against Iran numerous times and a few times against Iraqi Kurds. The US and Germany sold him chemical weapons and factories to manufacture more. Iran didn’t have any chemical weapons and didn’t use it. Yet in the UNSC, the US accused Iran of using them and downplayed all the reports of Iraq using them. the US naturally didn’t provide any proof and after a few days just went to a coma. Today all you hear is Saddam attacked Kurds by CW and nothing about his CW attacks on Iran. After so many years Iran finally won the case and German companies who sold CW to Iraq payed for medical treatment of the wounded. This ruling was also biased, as paying the medical treatment is not a fair reparation. The lives of tens of thousands destroyed as every breath they take brings them a lot of pain. Despite this, there’s still no mention of Iranian victims of CW. The US targeted and downed an Iran Air passenger liner (Iran Air 655) with a SAM, resulting in the death of 290 civilians, including 60 children, yet not a peep from the media.
            If someone wants to know about these incidents, he needs to ‘actively’ search for it as the media is too busy demonizing Iran and it just doesn’t fit their narrative.

            In your other post you said something about the Ayatollah Khomeini’s imprisoned political enemies. What you probably don’t know is the prisoners were the members of Mojahedin-e-Khalgh (MEK or MKO), a notorious terror group (even by US standards) which murdered more than 12,000 Iranians, mostly civilians. The names of the victims are documented and also MKO claimed the responsibility for their death. They even sided with Saddam against their own country. Again, not a peep from the media and the US recently took out their name of the terror groups list, because it hopes to use them for a regime change in Iran.

            Almost everything the US accuses Iran of doing, the reality is the same thing or worst is done to Iran by groups or countries which the US backs, documented of coarse.
            It’s the same for Hezbollah too, and for PMU it will be the same.
            Ever wondered why they say nothing against Saudis? Saudis export Wahhabism to all corners of the world, fund/arm/support the worst kinds of terror groups like ISIS and Al-Qaida and a lot of terrorists were and are Saudi nationals, also documented.

            Debate about religion will take a lot of time. Better not start it.
            But I agree with you that the Cultural Marxism.is an awful phenomenon. It’s not a bad idea to look who promotes it.

            ———————

            On a side note, which one is the correct sentence to complement my attractive Cypriot lady friend? I don’t have the Greek keyboard so I write them with English alphabet.
            Do I tell her ‘den yparchei’ or ‘eisai yperochos’?

  • Barba_Papa

    When Saudi Arabia wants countries to sell them weapons that basically translates to: Here’s a shitload of money, now be our friends and fight our enemies.

    • sagbotgamot

      Can they do that to Vldimir Putin,

    • Terra Cotta Woolpuller

      This is not always true and the false overtures right now seems more feigned than real, give them time and make them stew. They seem to be afraid of Nasrallah whom said he would retaliate any who dare continue with their supplication to the heads of the Snake the US and Israel.

  • sagbotgamot

    Why are they buying russian? They always say russian products are cheap and of low quality. What happen to the usual and favorite military supplier of Saudi Arabia? Hmmmmmm

  • IH8Lies

    That seems a break in protocol for them, what will Washington be thinking?
    I think the days of the US being the biggest player in the Middle East are coming to an end.
    They have produced more enemies and the countries that did not like each other much now have a common interest.
    Who would of thought 25 years ago that Iran and Iraq would hold military drills together.
    Russia is now the go to country and has many friends in the region unlike the US.

  • Cyriak Papasissis

    According to TASS , the Russian security and intelligence branches object to the Russia-Turkey deal on the grounds that it should not include the transfer of technology to the buyer. In this respect it seems that no transfer of technology will take place.

  • George King

    This picture should be saved for the near future, it says it all. There will be no sell to the current SA regime. In fact Russia does not need to intervene as we see all the proxies will be treated the same as their leaders. President Vladimir Putin vowed to hunt down those responsible for blowing up a Russian airliner over Egypt and intensified air strikes … “We will find them anywhere on the planet and punish them,” Putin said … “We must do this without any statute of limitations and we must find out all their names.”

    I would think this includes all acts not just the ill fated plane crash, the message is clear despite disbelief by those who have brought their own destiny to bear.

  • Alexey Kozyachiy

    big blow to the US arms sale corporations

  • cortisol

    The house of Saud sees the writing on the wall, like Erdogan did, that from now on being not usable and as such disposable for the CIA.

  • Solomon Krupacek

    russia should sell nuclear weapons. each country would buy. and than would be finally peace in ME.