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MAY 2021

Russian Workshop Implementing System To Serially Produce 5th Gen Su-57 Fighter Jets

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Russian Workshop Implementing System To Serially Produce 5th Gen Su-57 Fighter Jets

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The Russian Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Plant is working on implementing a production line for the serial construction of fifth generation Su-57 fighter jets.

The specialists of Shop No. 45 will be responsible for the serial production of Su-57 fighter jets.

They have successful experience in creating a production line for the production of combat vehicles.

The first project of this kind to improve work efficiency, the main goal of which was to align the assembly cycle of the Su-35S product to the customer, was implemented several years ago.

The implementation happens in several stages.

At the initial stage, bottlenecks were identified.

They turned out to be the sections for assembling the bow and under-cockpit compartments, assembling the fuselage, adjusting and handing over the product. The assembly cycle at these sites exceeded the 10 days planned for the consumer.

To solve the problem, it was necessary to modernize the docking ramps, change the design of the boules, introduce additional equipment for air intakes and engine nacelles.

Another important innovation was the transfer of the adjustment and delivery area from shop 7 to shop 45.

“Before that, there were colossal losses of time,” recalls the head of workshop No. 45 Artem Oshchepkov. “It took two hours to roll the fuselage to workshop No. 7. Now it takes four times less time to move from the docking stand to the delivery.”

Then it became possible to synchronize the cycle of production – a fully docked fuselage – with the final assembly shop. At the moment when the product in shop No. 7 moves from the extreme workplace further along the production line, the next product from shop No. 45 enters the first platform.

Today the workshop faces the following task:

By using the experience gained it needs to create a production line for the serial production of the 5th generation Su-57 aircraft. In order to efficiently and on time fulfill production tasks, the volume of which increases with the launch of the serial production of the Su-57, it is necessary to increase the throughput of the shop.

In this case, the cycle of the product release must be clearly synchronized with the consumer workshop.

“The new aircraft is complex,” says Viktor Passar, deputy head of the pre-production workshop, “The fuselage is composite, the latest technologies, the highest quality requirements. But we also have highly qualified personnel in our workshop, a strong team of craftsmen at the most energetic age. The workshop is small – everything is in sight; it will work out.”

To prepare for the production several things were prepared in advance.

The first was the organization of the optimal model for the movement of the product through the shop.

The second was the elimination, or reduction of losses for non-production movements, selection, delivery and storage, completing shift tasks for workplaces.

The assembly cycle should be reduced due to the introduction of additional stockpile equipment.

Part of it has already been received, and installation is underway. By the end of the year, the building berth of the sub-cockpit compartment will be built.

“We have already assembled the basis of this stock,” says Dmitry Nazarenko from shop 5. “It takes up little space, but with a large flow of cars under construction it will be very necessary. Taking into account the design features of the Su-57 airframe, the specialists of the chief technologist’s department suggested that the fuselage head assembly be divided into two stages.”

An additional stage for assembling the air intake was also introduced. A separate slipway for assembling its middle part was made, which will also save time. The workshop will receive another set of air intake slipways in 2021.

Creation of a production line for the fulfillment of the state order for the serial production of fifth-generation aircraft is today the most important task for the workers of Shop No. 45. After the completion of the installation of the second set of slipway equipment and adjustment of the process, the line will start operating at full capacity.

As such, it would appear that sometime in 2021 serial production of Su-57 fighter jets is expected to begin at full speed.

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94 comments

  1. occupybacon says:

    It would be nice to be a competitive plane but I sense it will rather compete with F-35 in failures and delayes.

    1. Lone Ranger says:

      Projecting again…
      Thats the Flop-35 :)

      1. occupybacon says:

        It’s not the best, personally I prefer F-18 super hornet that can fire back at chasing warplanes and a 30% better range radar but I still bet on F-35 being a lot more stealthy than SU-57. Probably SU-57 will bet on some jam weapon.

        1. HiaNd says:

          There is no stealth for IRST.
          All these “stealth” mythology bollocks coming from the West is just pile of nonsense. Every jet has IR signature and that is plenty for taking any jet down.
          F-35 is extremely un-manuvarable plane = very easy target.

        2. Lone Ranger says:

          F-35 aint very stealthy if Su-35s can get a lock on them.
          Not to mention S-200s from the 60s
          The Su-57 is more stealthy than most think or willing to admit.
          It employs shaped form plus RAM coating (conventional stealth), plus active radar cancellation, plus plasma stealth.
          The only jet currently that has that tech.
          Russian jets had that 180 off bore capebility since the Mig-29, Su-27 era.
          The Super Hornet is a good jet but far from perfect.
          It has stalling issues at low speeds and high angle of attack, G-limit is 7.6.
          Top speed is Mach 1.8 clean, 1.6 fully loaded.
          But at least it works.

          1. occupybacon says:

            Keyword: if

          2. Lone Ranger says:

            They proved they can over Syria.

        3. Jim Allen says:

          It may be “more stealthy” if the stealth coating would stay on the plane.
          Idiot.

          1. occupybacon says:

            Salty Ivan triggered much?

          2. itibi ra says:

            Let me translate: “Salty Ivan triggered much?”
            Meaning: “i’m really triggered! How dare you shatter my illusions?””

          3. occupybacon says:

            I’m a Salty Ivan, whip me grandma

    2. Lone Ranger says:

      Flop-35 needed 20 years from first flight to service.
      Su-57 did it in 10.
      Albeit Russia didnt have help from the UK, Canada, Italy… like the floppy.

      1. occupybacon says:

        And I wouldn’t even say it’s already in full service. Probably in 10 years. Let’s see if the Indian-refused brick is better in any way.

        1. Lone Ranger says:

          Refused for now.
          Thats the Indian way.
          They did it many times with multiple countries.
          Still endef up buying it.
          French were near to get a nervous breakdown with the Rafale misery that went in for 6 years.
          Indians are funny but slightly irritating people.
          But hey they had space stations 10,000 years ago so I guess its fine…

          1. occupybacon says:

            Yeah, blame Indians cause they refused a plane that Russians admitted that was underpowered.

          2. Lone Ranger says:

            They never said it was.
            Like I said Indians do that often.
            With other countries as well.

          3. MikeH says:

            If you want a good laugh, just read news on Indian weapons procurement. It doesn’t matter which system. It doesn’t matter of it is import or domestic. These people can barely field anything useful because of a bureaucracy that is simply crippling.

          4. Jim Allen says:

            Thing is it was understood the engines were being developed for
            Su-57 and would be installed in production aircraft.
            There wasn’t anything to admit, Russia wasn’t hiding the fact that the engines were not the engines to be installed in production, nor was Russia lying. You’re an idiot. Pitiful attempt to create a non-issue where no issue exists.

          5. occupybacon says:

            I never said Russia lied, I said they insisted Indians to buy the plane with underpowered engines. Bitchy Ivan, calm your tits.

          6. Jim Allen says:

            I’m not Russian, pork chop. Go back and read your comment again dyslexic shoat.

          7. occupybacon says:

            Ok Salty Ivan, go eat your buchwheat.

    3. Wizzy says:

      Russian planes never fail, they just evolve. Wait for the Su-57M before you know it

      1. HiaNd says:

        Exactly !!
        Russian approach to airplane building is evolutionary while Americans sometimes (lately) go from scratch and put too much new tech that was never tested together.
        And often that doesn’t work specially when they try to speedup the process and accelerate the procedures

      2. occupybacon says:

        Sure they fail, that verical take off made for Kuznetsoff could stay only 20 mins in the air. But Russian warplanes are good in general. However this plane firstly made for India will not be the pride if the Russian aviation. SU-27 to SU-35 are good though.

        1. HiaNd says:

          You have no clue as usual.

          SU-57 is new and revolutionary platform for whole family of new jets just as it was first SU-27.
          Platform is extremely maneuverable and with good engines that jet will out-fly any other jet in the sky. The limit is only G force that pilots can survive..Ther are no other limits

          1. occupybacon says:

            You’re parroting from Russian magazines with red stars on the cover.

          2. HiaNd says:

            Whatever
            Believe what you prefer I couldn’t care less.

            I just state the facts
            Su-27 and SU-57 are the same school of excellent aerodynamics.
            And that is something that is very underestimated by the US since they believe for decades in the “BVR” “beyond visual range” missiles that resolve every combat.
            The problem is : it is not so at all since all jets are getting stealthier and it is more easy for them to avoid long range missiles and get very close to the enemy for Russian style “dog fights”.
            That’s why Russia insist on maneuverability because it is useful in every flying situation.

            F-35 is opposite of “maneuverability”

          3. occupybacon says:

            Maneuvrability is for dogfights.

          4. HiaNd says:

            Maneuverability is for evading longer range missiles also.
            Lower flying jets (like F-35) with no agility has no chance for survival specially when they face true “air superiority” fighters like SU-57, F-22, SU-35.
            That is one of the reasons why F-35 is totally useless in air combat

          5. occupybacon says:

            At least you got the quotes correctly.

          6. HiaNd says:

            than you should write in quotes since that is the only thing you know, anything else you say is hardly worth reading

          7. Jim Allen says:

            And, MiG-29. (upgraded)

          8. HiaNd says:

            True.
            Also MIG-35 and MiG-29M2 (upgraded)
            with 3D Thrust vectoring (MIG-35 engines) also can do that because 3D thrust vectoring gives them extra maneuverability (F-22 has only 2D thrust vectoring )

          9. Jim Allen says:

            You know Sukhoi said his planes are just supersize MiG-29.
            US adopted it’s BVR thing to take advantage of the loss of mid to long range radars, in its fighters, execpt MiG-29K. US was all too aware of the results of dogfighting Russian fighters.
            That advantage no longer exists.
            The ability to avoid incoming weapons is critical as you pointed out.

          10. HiaNd says:

            “just supersize MiG-29”
            Logical since MIG -29 is light multi role jet and SU-30 is heavy

            “execpt MiG-29K.”
            You got wrong info from somewhere.

            SU-35 has Irbis E hybrid PESA/AESA 400km range radar far above any MIG radar range including new AESA radar from MIG-35.
            Each of these radars has its advantages.

          11. Jim Allen says:

            The K had all it’s radars functioning, as it used the carrier as vectoring until the current upgrades. Where the others lost mid to long range radars when Russia changed from ground base vectoring. The new radar system was too big to fit into the space available for it. This lasted until the still newer radars became available. These fit nicely. MiG-21 had the same issue, reducing them to ground attack roles.
            The info is correct. MiG-29K is the carrier variant. Of course these have the latest, or will soon have.
            The SMT version of upgrade includes increased internal fuel capacity, Russia keeps these for itself. I’m not exactly sure what version of upgrade the MiG-29 sent to Syria is, I think SM. Syria has about 2 dozen of these.

          12. HiaNd says:

            Are you from India because India has them and usually people don’t know about them also you talk about MIG-21 and India also has them?!
            And you praise them a lot and I didn’t get impression that Indians were so pleased with MIG-29 K complaining about mechanical, engine problems and such…availability of the jet issue….
            MIG-29K doesn’t have advanced AESA radar like MIG-35 but PESA..
            Of course India can buy the AESA and put them in their MIG-29K

            Sometimes India buys things dirty cheap and they demand superb quality on the top.
            MIG-29 they bought recently are 3 times less the price of Rafale so they can’t have the same quality

            The cone of the nose in MIG is much smaller to fit very big radar like Irbis but AESA from MIG – 35 will fit nicely.
            MIG-29SMT is Russian upgrade specially tailored for India and if Russia has them built that way for themselves it was called MIG-29M* (M*= modernization)

            Those were the origins of upgrade.
            S=export
            M=modernization
            MIG-29SM is actually called MIG-29M in Russia and gets “S” when it is built for export
            That is the cheapest most basic MIG

          13. Jim Allen says:

            These were first built for Algeria.
            Using the excuse these are built on existing airframes, not new, which Russia had told Algeria up front they were existing airframes, rejected them. Russia took the planes back refunded the money. Russia was looking for another buyer, when Russian Aerospace started playing with them. Said we like them, and we’re keeping them.
            Yes, India bought the K for it’s carrier(s) (just remembered that) Export models are downgraded to one degree, or other, regardless what country is exporting. This is true of all military hardware.
            There’s only one exception to this I know of. Syria’s long delayed delivery of its S-300. This was after IAF’s little fuck up with the Russian Il, that was landing in Syria. IDF lied to Russia on location of it’s silly ass attack, and the time. Breaking the deal between Putin, and Bibi to delay delivery of
            S-300 to Syria in 2013.
            To stop BiBi’s incessant whining about Syria having a weapon that terrified him. The loss of the plane and it’s crew to an S-200 missile locked on an IAF F-16 that was not where it was reported it was, then ducked inside the big planes radar signature knowing the missile would automatically switch to the bigger radar signature, which it did. Really pissed off MoD Shoigu. Calling a press conference to rebuke Israel’s claims it was blameless, (imagine that) detailed the sequence of events showing Israel responsible. MoD very eloquently expressed his displeasure at his Commanding officer’s handling of the event to that point, then stating Russia wasn’t doing that, instead it was sending the latest version of S-300 that was being loaded on
            Il-76 cargo aircraft, as he spoke. Putin asked one question, kinda’ smiled, and shrugged his shoulders. Putin’s question was about a piece of “Not For Export” technology. To which Shoigu answered yes. This technology integrates the “S” missile defense systems. Only Russian military has integrated “S” systems, export models are stand alone units. These were designed to operate as an integrated system from S-100 through
            S-400, and soon S-500.
            Syria has the capability now, courtesy MoD Shoigu. This allows Syria to use the S-400 electronics, radars, etc., with it’s existing “S” systems, Russia has S-400 at its airbase. MoD Shoigu also handed command of all Syrian air defense to it’s defense forces. Including the systems at Russia’s air base.
            Bibi had apolexy over this, swearing to destroy the system, and all kind of other mean shit. Now the terrorists are terrified.
            There’s a reason Syria won’t engage IAF aircraft over Lebanon, and as we can see that has nothing to do with Syria’s ability to knock these planes out of the sky. IAF launches it’s missiles above the villages along the Lebanese/Syrian border. The wreckage from shot down aircraft will fall directly on the villages. The reason Syrian air defense won’t engage the IAF planes. It’s never hesitated to engage IAF aircraft anywhere else. These attacks are ineffective, very little gets past SADF.
            I’m from US.

          14. HiaNd says:

            I have learned few things here
            Story with plenty of details and I am surprised how much you know about certain things.
            Now you have confirmed to me, that Syrian S-300 system is integrated with Russian S-400.
            Which is great news.
            Thanks a lot for excellent comment.

          15. Jim Allen says:

            That Russia gave that technology to Syria blows my mind. That’s got to be a first.

          16. Jim Allen says:

            My information on the upgrade versions may be incorrect. While most comes from credible Russian sources I’ve followed for years, keeping an eye for anomoly’s, some is occasionally not correct, or taken from another source. (credible) Mistakes are inevitable. I’ve more confidence in Russian sources, as Russian propaganda tends to be the truth.
            I have none in Western sources, with a couple exceptions.
            I know India has trouble with the engines in MiG-21, but I hadn’t heard of engine problems with MiG-29.
            Interesting as Russian reliability is legend.
            Possibly an India induced issue. I’ll keep my eyes open.

          17. HiaNd says:

            it was an issue of having 80% battle ready aircraft’s so they were blaming Russians even when it is not Russian fault really….
            like when they have lost one SU-30MKI they would turn to Russia for explanation even though that SU-30 was license produced in DRODO India

            Russians have sent experts and it has turned out that it is bad quality control in production in DRODO India to be the problem of that crash

          18. Wizzy says:

            And you are? Why would you talk about the failure of a jet under development? I mean state one good reason you are moving your mouth

          19. HiaNd says:

            Officially SU-57 is now production model (1st batch is in production) even though they will continue with upgrades and improvements this is most definitely the final shape of the jet

          20. occupybacon says:

            One out of 12 crashed and was mainly made for India and India refused it. Also nobody believes it’s stealthy. Russians are so fragile.

          21. HiaNd says:

            Those were the PROTOTYPES you ignoramus !
            prototypes do crash sometimes you know…

        2. HiaNd says:

          SU-27, SU-35 are same design
          SU-57 is new design (more modern SU-27 stealthier, with same advanced aerodynamics characteristics)of the same school of design

          Yeltsin Russia has sold VTOL jet JAK-141 design to Lockheed ( that’s how F-35 project started – based on Soviet know how )

          1. occupybacon says:

            And your point is?

  2. Lone Ranger says:

    Good job Comrades.
    CIA trolls and hasbarats are crying and raging :)

  3. Lone Ranger says:

    First batch will be 75.
    But I wouldnt stop till at least 350-400.
    For the next 15 years.
    As we could see in the past Russian design have a very long lifespan.
    It could stay in service at least until 2060.
    By that time it will be complemented with the Mig-41.
    And heavy combat drones.

    1. HiaNd says:

      Do you seriously think that under the best circumstances US can have more than 75 of F-22 combat ready?!
      I personally don’t think so.
      It is about 50% combat reediness of F-22 and it can go only lower in future.

      First batch of SU-57 is in that numbers because they simply wait to get some export orders of SU-57 to lower the production cost and price for SU-57 for Russian army.
      It is as simple as that.
      US did the same with F-35 “Flying Brick” .
      They waited that many countries have deliveries of F-35 with higher prices so that they can buy more of them once prices go down

      1. Lone Ranger says:

        Almost half the Craptor fleet is already gone.
        110 remain in service.
        Official combat readyness rate is 62%.

        1. HiaNd says:

          110 only!!??!
          Wow!

          Well it has been quite long time since I was reading about “Craptor”
          In those days combat readiness was 50% and they have lost some Craptors
          in hurricane and few in falling down.
          So it must be that hurricane accident that has destroyed quite few of Craptors?

          They were forced….they have managed to rise combat readiness to maximum (plenty of spare parts cannibalization from Craptors that don’t fly any more helps I suppose).

          So I wasn’t far(I was even to generous in numbers) when it comes to combat ready F-22

          1. Lone Ranger says:

            It would be around a 130, but a hurricane destroyed a bunch of them in Florida a few years ago, they were waiting for maintenance and couldnt fly away to escape.
            The rest either crashed or older ones were cannibalized to keep younger ones in flightworthy condition.

          2. Антон С says:

            Whole world in deep amazing! 700 billion dollars of annual military spending, but such troubles. Looks like someones are stealing to buy personal islands with ivory towers and golden palaces.

          3. Lone Ranger says:

            Indeed.

          4. Lone Ranger says:

            Yes indeed.
            You are quite well informed.

        2. Антон С says:

          That’s why F-15X is on the scene now. F-15C is powerful plane. So F-15X could be more battle-ready than 5th generation.

          1. HiaNd says:

            F-15 is good airplane and even underrated specially comparing to that flying crap F-35
            US will use F-15X (copying the Russians MIG-31) to carry hyper-sonic missiles also

          2. Jim Allen says:

            F-15X is heavy.

          3. Антон С says:

            I know. Heavy, but the same cost. Heavy planes better. Look at conflict of Ethiopia (Su-27) against Eritrea (MiG-29) around 2000 year. Su-27 won. F-15 will be better than F-35. But (as a russian citizen) I hope, the Pentagon will continue to buy F-35.)

          4. Jim Allen says:

            Actually that’s F15EX.

          5. Антон С says:

            True. Some sources say EX, some X.

      2. Антон С says:

        “First batch of SU-57 is in that numbers because they simply wait to get some export orders of SU-57 to lower the production cost and price for SU-57 for Russian army”

        May be, may be. Plus shortage of money, quite good 4++ generation and improvement of unmanned technology.

        “US did the same with F-35 “Flying Brick””

        I call it “Penguin”, because its shape close to this bird. Model without vertical take-off looks much better, B or C.

        1. HiaNd says:

          “May be, may be.”

          than you go:

          “Plus shortage of money”
          Fuck Anton that is the same thing!
          Russia is buying smaller batch now expecting for prices to fall because they don’t have enough money!!
          They want to buy under 200 of SU-57 all in all.

          But they hope that India and China, Vietnam and maybe Algeria buy few also.

          And they buy now SU-35 because they want to save money and use SU-35 as stop gap till they switch completely on 5th generation jets in the future!
          SU-35 is excellent today but still 4th generation (SU-27 type of design) and OLD TECH after 10-20 years doesn’t mater how you upgrade it !

          1. Jim Allen says:

            Russia isn’t hurting money wise, it’s economy has only contracted 10%, as opposed to the 30% in US economy.
            US Government is a wholly owned subsidiary of The City of London, so money isn’t much of an issue with the Zionist Khazar criminal Banking Cabal, paying the bills.
            Russia has the advantage of being debt free, is not interested in conquering the world, and sales of oil, and non-oil products is stable. Given the the continuing development of resources, building new infrastructure, and demand for it’s military technology more than it can produce for export. Russia has large reserves, on hand.
            Russia will not borrow money to wage war, maybe that gives the impression money is an issue.
            Russia doesn’t develop military technology, for export Su-57 was developed for the Russian military. The first 75 production
            Su-57 are for Russian Aerospace. (was 76 but the first plane crashed enroute to delivery, funny I don’t recall any losses of prototypes) Then the downgraded export models will become available. Priority will probably be given to Iran’s order for Su-57.
            While India continues wanking.

          2. HiaNd says:

            “Russia doesn’t develop military technology,for export ”

            wrong,… only strategic (weapons) missiles are not …all the rest is for sale …

            “Su-57 was developed for the Russian military”

            and for the export to anybody who can afford it

            I literally know all that you are saying about Russia…

          3. Jim Allen says:

            Yes, the development of weapons are for Russia. That Russia exports a lesser model to those that desire any given product is secondary, and I can’t imagine Russia giving export a second thought during development. This is my point.
            That Russia exports it’s military technology is…umm…obvious.

          4. Антон С says:

            Algeria ordered 12 planes. Iran already signed contract for Su-30 even before down of the UN embargo in october 2020.

          5. Антон С says:

            My english far from perfect. I understand your words about future sales for foreign states. I meant it’s one of reasons. If Su-57 will be a failure, it won’t be in production after first batch. 6th generation is under development and could be in mass production instead of manned planes. Just my own proposal.

          6. HiaNd says:

            Fair enough.
            Things are starting to develop very fast specially in hyper-sonic “AI”artificial intelligence and robotics in general.
            Once all missiles become hyper-sonic the sheer speed and split second time needed for the reaction, huge resistance on G-force fore extreme maneuvers, will become critical factor for pushing the pilots from direct air combat (to lave that area to the drones).
            That’s why many experts talk and think about non-pilot 6th generation jets and drones.
            But we are still in transition period and 5-th generation has its role to play.
            I don’t see how SU-57 can be a “failure” ?!?
            Officially Russian air-force command… they are pleased with the SU-57 jet.
            The problem is (low oil prices) lack of money in budget.
            Slow lowering investment in military.

            The same goes for T-14 and whole “Armata” armored family.
            Only strategic weapons(subs also) doesn’t suffer shortage of money and air defenses also.

          7. Антон С says:

            “I don’t see how SU-57 can be a “failure” ?”

            Do you know that Su-27 was also a failure? I mean its very first version – T-10-1 (T – triangle wing).
            https://coollib.net/i/75/290375/pic_108.jpg
            It was so bad that MoD decided to create quite different plane, which became a legend.

            F-22 was perspective before entering service. F-35 – no commentaries. So we should wait until Su-57 will fly in army. T-14 looks more promising.

          8. HiaNd says:

            I didn’t know that detail about SU-27
            thanks!

      3. Jim Allen says:

        F-35 didn’t sell as well as expected.
        Turkey’s order for F-35 is cancelled, over it’s buying S-400. Turkey still produces components though.
        Prices of F-35 haven’t gone down, as more money is pissed away in the attempt to make it fly. Cost/Benefit analysis concluded F-35 is the epitome of the sunk cost fallacy. US military pulled F-22, and F-35 from the Middle East theatre. Citing corrosion issues, stealth coating that falls off the planes within days of new coating applied, and the difficulty in maintaining these junk in combat conditions.
        This added to the unreliability problems that cannot seem to be resolved. Unfit for combat.

        1. HiaNd says:

          They really wanted SU-35 but Turkey doesn’t have the money

          Even S-400 has Russian loan built in the sale of S-400.
          Lone Ranger told me that they have only 110 of F-22 combat ready left with max availability of 62% which is about 60 jets only
          I am not surprised that they want to protect insanely expensive jet that they have in small number from desert conditions.
          For F-35 I have no comment other than;” they take away F-35 because useless”
          Both those jets demand perfect conditions as simple as that….
          In war conditions they would be useless !

        2. Антон С says:

          “Prices of F-35 haven’t gone down”

          It was 120 million at start of production, now it’s 80-90 for own air-force. Export price can be 50-100% bigger.

    2. Антон С says:

      It should be successful to have long service. 2nd generation MiG-21 still in service in big numbers, 3rd generation MiG-23 is out. 5th gen worldwide can be a failure. 4++ still in good shape with multi-role functionality, AESA radar and electronic warfare additional equipment. 5th gen could be a leader of 4th gen wing or unmanned airplanes like a “Hunter” heavy UAV.

      1. HiaNd says:

        “5th gen worldwide can be a failure.”

        Only 5th gen. that is “failure”is F-35.
        F-22 has failed only in price while F-35 has failed in everything.
        I don’t see SU-57 or Chinese 5th gen. jets “failing” in anything.
        Specially when those jets come relatively cheap with everything that they offer and comparing to F-35 and F-22 prices they look good to me.

        4++ are good for next 25 years max. After that they will not be so “good” even with all upgrades they can imagine . They will lack edge for the most competitive armies.
        For Africa they’ll be excellent even in next 50 years no doubt (if they can fly that long).

        1. Jim Allen says:

          F-22 has its share of fatal flaws, too.

          1. HiaNd says:

            true all that + insanely expensive maintenance and flight hours that only US printing machine can afford + extremely expensive everything related to that jet.
            But at least it is what its name say it is to be “air superiority” 5th generation jet and quite good one even today; after so many years.

            While F-35 was almost nothing of what was promised with 1 trillion dollars spent

  4. Tommy Jensen says:

    US also have serial production for our F-35 fighter jets and experts to workshop implementation.

    1. Jim Allen says:

      You mean assembly of components. That are manufactured in various countries then imported to US for assembly.
      There is no industry left in US, it’s been moved offshore.

  5. Wizzy says:

    American children on every platform use expressions like ”the F-22 will shoot it down before the pilot ever knew it was there”. I don’t blame them, seeing as Hollywood and Fox have them on lock. Honestly, I don’t think the F-22 could shoot down a Su-35. How? How do you fire a missile 60 – 100 km away and hit a Su-35?

    1. HiaNd says:

      Shooting down very fast airplane like SU-35 from 100 km distance is very difficult task simply because if pilot knows that missile is fired (missile not coming from behind) than he has plenty of time to evade that missile or even simply out-fly it.
      With F-35 is different since F-35 is not capable to accelerate above Mach 1.4, not capable to turn, not capable to fly high, to run away, or do anything abruptly.
      With IRST they can be easily targeted with no problem (despite “stealth) by Russian jets with no radio waves from radar

      1. JerryDrake says:

        For the Su-35, it doesn’t matter if missile is approaching from the rear hemisphere because Su-35 has rear radar.

        1. HiaNd says:

          True Jerry
          but it was colloquial attempt to explain about “blind” angle because i couldn’t find right word so I have said (wrongly) “from the rear” while “blind” angle was right words. Point was just to explain such situation not to analyze SU-35 specs.

          And SU-35 has plenty of “blind” angle despite 2 radars.

          Anyways for every jet even for SU-57 that has by far closest to true 3D radar coverage there is always some “blind angle”

      2. Антон С says:

        That’s why long range combat is under big question. Look at results of resent air fight of India and Pakistan. 100-km missiles not so deadly as short-range missiles. Ground base AA systems more deadly, because their missiles bigger (~2 tonns for 250km missile of S-300 – 48N6E3) and more powerful.

        1. HiaNd says:

          Agree.
          Long range combat will become reality once hyper-sonic missiles with longer range and much higher speed become very dangerous because reducing significantly time to react for every pilot.
          There will be not much time to react, run away or possibility to outmaneuver such fast missiles because of the G-force limits of every pilot.

      3. MikeH says:

        All the new Su variants have rear facing radars. I am not sure a long range missile would be able to surprise one of these planes.

        1. HiaNd says:

          I am not sure about that Mike
          Russia still flies upgraded SU-27SM3 and there are some very old models of SU-30(even if upgraded) I sincerely doubt that they have rear radars.
          Not all SU-27 or SU-30 could be upgraded equally.

          But if you have credible source that claims opposite I would like to see it

          Maybe it is in wording…what is for you “new Su variants”?!
          SU-35 has it of course …It is in specs
          That is well known but I have never heard that any serially produced SU-30 (any variant of SU-30 has them)
          If and when Russia decides to upgrade SU-30 on SU-35 level that might be the case though.

          1. Антон С says:

            Weapon managment system СУВ-27 “Меч” (sword) with main radar РЛПК-27(Н-001) with 100 km range at frontal hemisphere and 40 km at rear. It is base model of Su-27. Su-35UB and Su-30 since MKI modification have small rear radar N011. You can try to find english articles about it, my links are russian ones.

          2. HiaNd says:

            OK I didn’t know that
            Thanks!

            But when you say “small radar” it must have been very small not worthy of mentioning.
            Since I have never bumped into such information.

            For Indian SU-30 MKI I defiantly know that they have “Super Sukhoi” modernization program where majority of their jets will be upgraded to SU-35 level (with SU-35 engines and radars) I do not know if they make changes on canopy or just reinforcing jets with new avionics and everything.

            So it might just be that Russia will use the same know how to upgrade her own SU-30 on SU-35 level.
            It might be already the case I don’t know since I haven’t been flowing the situation for quite long time.

            Thanks again for your informations.

        2. Антон С says:

          Plus optic surveillance with 100 km range. And 50 km for MiG-29 and Su-27. You can hit targets without using radar.

  6. RichardD says:

    Great!

    It’s been said in Christian theology that organization is the first law of heaven. How they would know that I have no idea. Seeing how essentially no one has ever been there. But maybe there’s some truth to it.

    A place for everything and everything in it’s place in one of my current tasks for my new apartment and life. Shelving, cabinets, labels etc..

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