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JUNE 2021

The Saker: Why is Putin “allowing” Israel to bomb Syria?

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Written by The Saker; Originally appeared at The Unz Review

Informationclearinghouse recently posted an article by Darius Shahtahmasebi entitled “Israel Keeps Bombing Syria and Nobody Is Doing Anything About It”. Following this publication I received an email from a reader asking me the following question: “Putin permitting Israel to bomb Syria – why? I am confused by Putins actions – does Putin support the Zionist entity, on the quiet like. I would appreciate your feedback on this matter. Also – I have heard, but not been able to confirm, that the Russian Jewish immigrants to Occupied Palestines are the most ardent tormenters of the Palestinians – it takes quite some doing to get ahead of the likes of Netanyahu. Please comment“.  While in his article Darius Shahtahmasebi wonders why the world is not doing anything to stop the Israelis (“Why haven’t Iran, Syria, and/or Hezbollah in Lebanon responded directly?“), my reader is more specific and wonders why Putin (or Russia) specifically is not only “permitting” Israel to bomb Syria but even possibly “supporting” the Zionist Entity.

I often see that question in emails and in comments, so I wanted to address this issue today.

First, we need to look at some critical assumption implied by this question.  These assumptions are:

  1. That Russia can do something to stop the Israelis
  2. That Russia should (or even is morally obliged) to do something.

Let me begin by saying that I categorically disagree with both of these assumptions, especially the 2nd one.  Let’s take them one by one.

Assumption #1: Russia can stop the Israeli attacks on Syria

How?  I think that the list of options is fairly obvious here.  Russian options range from diplomatic action (such as private or public protests and condemnations, attempts to get a UNSC Resolution passed) to direct military action (shooting down Israeli aircraft, “painting” them with an engagement radar to try to scare them away or, at least, try to intercept Israeli missiles).

Trying to reason with the Israelis or get the to listen to the UN has been tried by many countries for decades and if there is one thing which is beyond doubt is that the Israelis don’t give a damn about what anybody has to say.  So talking to them is just a waste of oxygen.  What about threatening them?  Actually, I think that this could work, but at what risk and price?

First of all, while I always said that the IDF’s ground forces are pretty bad, this is not the case of their air forces.  In fact, their record is pretty good.  Now if you look at where the Russian air defenses are, you will see that they are all concentrated around Khmeimim and Tartus.  Yes, an S-400 has a very long range, but that range is dependent on many things including the size of the target, its radar-cross section, its electronic warfare capabilities, the presence of specialized EW aircraft, altitude, etc.  The Israelis are skilled pilots who are very risk averse so they are very careful about what they do.  Finally, the Israelis are very much aware of where the Russians are themselves and where there missiles are.  I think that it would be pretty safe to say that the Israelis make sure to keep a minimal safe distance between themselves and the Russians, if only to avoid any misunderstanding.   But let’s say that the Russians did have a chance to shoot down an Israeli aircraft – what would be the likely Israeli reaction to such a shooting?  In this article Darius Shahtahmasebi writes: “Is it because Israel reportedly has well over 200 nukes all “pointed at Iran,” and there is little Iran and its allies can do to take on such a threat?”  I don’t see the Israelis use nukes on Russian forces, however, that does in no way mean that the Russians when dealing with Israel should not consider the fact that Israel is a nuclear armed power ruled by racist megalomaniacs.  In practical terms this means this: “should Russia (or any other country) risk a military clash with Israel over a few destroyed trucks or a weapons and ammunition dump”?  I think that the obvious answer is clearly ‘no’.

While this is the kind of calculations the USA simply ignores (at least officially – hence all the saber-rattling against the DPRK), Russia is ruled by a sane and responsible man who cannot make it a habit of simply waltzing into a conflict hence the Russian decision not to retaliate in kind against the shooting down of the Russian SU-24 by the Turks.  If the Russians did not retaliate against the Turks shooting down one of their own aircraft, they sure ain’t gonna attack the Israelis when they attack a non-Russian target!

There are also simply factual issues to consider: even of some Russian air-defense systems are very advanced and could shoot down an X number of Israeli aircraft, they are nowhere near numerous enough to prevent the entire Israeli air force from saturating them.  In fact, both Israel and CENTCOM simply have such a numbers advantage over the relatively small Russian contingent that they both could over-run the Russian defenses, even if they would take losses in the process.

So yes, the Russian probably could stop one or a few Israeli attacks, but if the Israelis decided to engage in a sustained air campaign against targets in Syria there is nothing the Russians could do short of going to war with Israel.   So here again a very basic strategic principle fully applies: you never want to start an escalatory process you neither control nor can win.  Put simply this means: if the Russians shoot back – they lose and the Israelis win.  It’s really that simple and both sides know it (armchair strategist apparently don’t).

And this begs a critical look at the second assumption:

Assumption #2: Russia has some moral duty to stop the Israeli attacks on Syria

This is the one which most baffles me.  Why in the world would anybody think that Russia owes anybody anywhereon the planet any type of protection?!  For starters, when is the last time somebody came to the help of Russia?  I don’t recall anybody in the Middle-East offering their support to Russia in Chechnia, Georgia or, for that matter, the Ukraine!  How many countries in the Middle-East have recognized South Ossetia or Abkhazia (and compare that with the Kosovo case!)?  Where was the Muslim or Arab “help” or “friendship” towards Russia when sanctions were imposed and the price of oil dropped?  Remind me – how exactly did Russia’s “friends” express their support for Russia over, say, the Donbass or Crimea?

Can somebody please explain to me why Russia has some moral obligation towards Syria or Iran or Hezbollah when not a single Muslim or Arab country has done anything to help the Syrian government fight against the Takfiris?  Where is the Arab League!?  Where is the Organization of Islamic Cooperation?!

Is it not a fact that Russia has done more in Syria than all the countries of the Arab League and the OIC combined?!

Where do the Arab and Muslims of the Middle-East get this sense of entitlement which tells them that a faraway country which struggles with plenty of political, economic and military problems of its own has to do more than the immediate neighbors of Syria do?!

Putin is the President of Russia and he is first and foremost accountable to the Russian people to whom he has to explain every Russian casualty and even every risk he takes.  It seems to me that he is absolutely right when he acts first and foremost in defense of the people who elected him and not anybody else.

By the way – Putin was very clear about why he was ordering a (very limited) Russian military intervention in Syria: to protect Russian national interests by, for example, killing crazy Takfiris in Syria so as not to have to fight then in the Caucasus and the rest of Russia.  At no time and in no way did any Russian official refer to any kind of obligation of Russia towards Syria or any other country in the region.  True, Russia did stand by President Assad, but that was not because of any obligation towards him or his country, but because the Russians always insisted that he was the legitimate President of Syria and that only the Syrian people had the right to replace (or keep) him.  And, of course, it is in the Russian national interest to show that, unlike the USA, Russia stands by her allies.  But none of that means that Russia is now responsible for the protection of the sovereignty of the Syrian airspace or territory.

As far as I am concerned, the only country which has done even more than Russia for Syria is Iran and, in lieu of gratitude the Arab countries “thank” the Iranians by conspiring against them with the USA and Israel.  Hassan Nasrallah is absolutely spot on when the calls all these countries traitors and collaborators of the AngloZionist Empire.

There is something deeply immoral and hypocritical in this constant whining that Russia should do more when in reality Russia and Iran are the only two countries doing something meaningful (and Hezbollah, of course!).

Now let me address a few typical questions:

Question #1: but aren’t Syria, Iran and Hezbollah Russian allies?

Yes and no.  Objectively – yes.  Formally – no.  What this means is that while these three entities do have some common objectives, they are also independent and they all have some objectives not shared by others.  Furthermore, they have no mutual defense treaty and this is why neither Syria, nor Iran nor Hezbollah retaliated against Turkey when the Turks shot down the Russian SU-24.  While some might disagree, I would argue that this absence of a formal mutual defense treaty is a very good thing if only because it prevents Russian or Iranian forces in Syria from becoming “tripwire” forces which, if attacked, would require an immediate response.  In a highly dangerous and explosive situation like the Middle-East the kind of flexibility provided by the absence any formal alliances is a big advantage for all parties involved.

Question #2 : does that mean that Russia is doing nothing or even supporting Israel?

Of course not!  In fact, Netanyahu even traveled to Moscow to make all sorts of threats and he returned home with nothing (Russian sources even report that the Israelis ended up shouting at their Russian counterparts).  Let’s restate here something which ought to be obvious to everybody: the Russian intervention in Syria was an absolute, total and unmitigated disaster for Israel (I explain that in detail in this article).  If the Russians had any kind of concern for Israelis interests they would never have intervened in Syria in the first place!  However, that refusal to let Israel dictate Russian policies in the Middle-East (or elsewhere) does not at all mean that Russia can simply ignore the very real power of the Israelis, not only because of their nukes, but also because of their de-facto control of the US government.

Question #3: so what is really going on between Russia and Israel?

As I have explained elsewhere, the relationship between Russia and Israel is a very complex and multi-layered one and nothing between those two countries is really black or white.  For one thing, there is a powerful pro-Israel lobby in Russia at which Putin has been chipping away over the years, but only in very small and incremental steps.  The key for Putin is to do what needs to be done to advance Russian interests but without triggering an internal or external political crisis.  This is why the Russians are doing certain things, but rather quietly.

First, they are re-vamping the aging Syrian air defenses not only with software updates, but also with newer hardware.  They are also, of course, training Syrian crews.  This does not mean that the Syrians could close their skies to Israeli aircraft, but that gradually the risks of striking Syria would go up and up with each passing month.  First, we would not notice this, but I am confident that a careful analysis of the types of targets the Israelis will strike will go down and further down in value meaning the Syrians will become more and more capable of defending their most important assets.

Second, it is pretty obvious that Russia, Iran and Hezbollah are working synergistically.  For example, the Russians and the Syrians have integrated their air defenses which means that now the Syrians can “see” much further than their own radars would allow them to.  Furthermore, consider the number of US cruise missiles which never made it to the Syrian air base Trump wanted to bomb: it is more or less admitted by now that this was the result of Russian EW countermeasures.

Finally, the Russians are clearly “covering” for Hezbollah and Iran politically by refusing to consider them as pariahs which is what Israel and the USA have been demanding all along.  This is why Iran is treated as a key-player by the Russian sponsored peace process while the USA and Israel are not even invited.

So the truth of the matter is simple: the Russians will not directly oppose the Israelis, but what they will do is quietly strengthen Iran and Hezbollah, which is not only much safer but also much more effective.

Conclusion

We live in a screw-up and dysfunctional society which following decades of US domination conflates war and aggression with strength, which implicitly accepts the notion that a “great country” is one which goes on some kind of violent rampage on a regular basis and which always resorts to military force to retaliate against any attack.  I submit that the Russian and Iranian leaders are much more sophisticated then that.  The same goes for the Hezbollah leadership, by the way.  Remember when the Israelis (with the obvious complicity of some members of the Syrian regime, by the way) murdered Imad Mughniyeh?  Hezbollah promised to retaliate, but so far, almost a decade later, they have not (or, at least, not officially).  Some will say that Hezbollah’s threats were empty words – I totally disagree.  When Hassan Nasrallah promises something you can take it to the bank.  But Hezbollah leaders are sophisticated enough to retaliate when the time is right and on their own terms.  And think about the Iranians who since the Islamic Revolution of 1979 have been in the crosshairs of both the USA and Israel and who never gave either one of them the pretext to strike.

When you are much more powerful than your opponent you can be stupid and reply on brute, dumb force.  At least for the short to middle term.  Eventually, as we see with the USA today, this kind of aggressive stupidity backfires and ends up being counterproductive.  But when you are smaller, weaker or even just still in the process of recovering your potential strength you have to act with much more caution and sophistication.  This is why all the opponents of the AngloZionist Empire (including Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, Russia, China, Cuba, Venezuela) do their utmost to avoid using force against the AngloZionists even when it would be richly deserved.  The one exception to this rule is Kim Jong-un who has chosen a policy of hyperinflated threats which, while possibly effective (he seems to have outwitted Trump, at least so far) is also very dangerous and one which none of the Resistance countries want to have any part in.

The Russians, Iranians and Hezbollah are all “grown adults” (in political terms), and Assad is learning very fast, and they all understand that they are dealing with a “monkey with a hand grenade” (this fully applies to both Israeli and US leaders) which combines a nasty personality, a volatile temper,  a primitive brain and a hand grenade big enough to kill everybody in the room.  Their task is to incapacitate that monkey without having it pull the pin.  In the case of the Israeli strikes on Syria, the primary responsibility to respond in some manner would fall either on the target of the strikes (usually Hezbollah) or on the nation whose sovereignty was violated (Syria).  And both could, in theory, retaliate (by using tactical missiles for example).  Yet they chose not to, and that is the wise and correct approach.  As for the Russians, this is simply and plainly not their business.

Addendum 1:

One more thing.  Make no mistake – the Israeli (and US!) propensity to use force as a substitute for diplomacy is a sign of weakness, not of strength.  More, accurately, their use of force, or the threat of force, is the result of their diplomatic incompetence.  While to the unsophisticated mind the systematic use of force might appear as an expression of power, history shows that brute force can be defeated when challenged not directly, but by other means.  This is, by necessity, a slow process, much slower than a (mostly entirely theoretical) “quick victory”, but an ineluctable one nonetheless.  In purely theoretical terms, the use of force can roughly have any one of the following outcomes: defeat, stalemate, costly victory and a relatively painless victory.  That last one is exceedingly rare and the use of force mostly results in one of the other outcomes.  Sometimes the use of force is truly the only solution, but I submit that the wise political leader will only resort to it when all other options have failed and when vital interests are at stake.  In all  other situation a “bad peace is preferable to a good war”.

Addendum 2:

Contrary to the hallucinations of the Neocons, Russia is absolutely not a “resurgent USSR” and Putin has no desire whatsoever to rebuilt the Soviet Union.  Furthermore, there is no meaningful constituency in Russia for any such “imperial” plans (well, there are always some lunatics everywhere, but in Russia they are, thank God, a tiny powerless minority).  Furthermore, the new Russia is most definitely not an “anti-USA” in the sense of trying to counter every US imperial or hegemonic move.  This might be obvious to many, but I get so many questions about why Russia is not doing more to counter the USA in Africa, Latin America or Asia that I feel that it is, alas, still important to remind everybody of a basic principle of international law and common sense: problems in country X are for country X to deal with.  Russia has no more business than the USA in “solving” country X’s problems.  Furthermore, country X’s problems are usually best dealt with by country X’s immediate neighbors, not by megalomaniacal messianic superpowers who feel that they ought to “power project” because they are somehow “indispensable” or because “manifest destiny” has placed upon them the “responsibility” to “lead” the world.  All this terminology is just the expression of a pathological and delusional imperial mindset which has cost Russia and the Soviet Union an absolutely horrendous price in money, energy, resources and blood (for example, the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was justified in terms of the “internationalist duty” of the Soviet Union and people to help a “brotherly nation”).  While this kind of nonsense is still 100% mainstream in the poor old USA, it is absolutely rejected in modern Russia.  For all the personal credibility of Putin with the Russian people, even he could not get away with trying to militarily intervene, nevemind police the whole planet, unless truly vital Russian interests were threatened (Crimea was such a very rare case).  Some will deplore this, I personally very much welcome it, but the truth is that “the Russians are *not* coming”.

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Simon Gould

Russia doesn’t need to do anything; Israel’s sorties are of limited impact and symbolic as much as anything. if, as I do, you read the Israeli press, they are obsessed with Hezbollah and the threat it poses – as long as that threat remains, Israel will be little more than an irritant in Syria.

Lupus

Israël is the agressor in the region and Hezbollah is a defending and protecting force. Israël always plays the victim to justify their terrorist acts and the stealing of land. Thats sick

Frank Behrens

which is bullshit concerning the Hezbollah: they are still an shia-islamic secterian faction. The defence and protaction of the Libanon and the libanese people is task of the national libanse army (as in every country) …and “defending” the Libanon in Syria is just nonsense …call it what it is (reasons aside) : it is an intervention,

According to the libanese peace process/treaties , EVERY secterian and political factions should have to lay down and hand over their weapons (and/or join the libanese national army) …up untill now Hezbollah refuses and acts as a state within a state.

Solomon Krupacek

100%

Joe

Lol as usual agree whatever with the loser’s side.

Frank’s comments are practically illogical and not reality.

Fact is Hez has practically tamed Isreal from yearly attacks on Lebanon and saved tens and tens of thousands of lives every year since 2006. And he talks about Lebanon’s army… Which by the way is currently fully working closely with Hez to protect Lebanon to the disappointment of both Frank and your kind

Stop trolling

Valerianus Maximus

Hezbollah’s demonstrated effectiveness against the Israeli Army is what’s driving his rant. He seems to think that he can get legalistic and remove Hezbollah from the equation, so that he can get his jollies watching Israeli tanks roll over the the combat-useless Lebanese Army and into Beirut again, a la 1982. If he doesn’t get his way, he’ll flip the Risk board over, send the pieces flying, and stomp out of the room.

Frank Behrens

Whhooo, you sound like an therapists ..(them always knowing better what one thinks)^^.
Instead of making guesses …just ask me. (usually I don´t bite…have no fear).

And if the IDF is effective or not against the Hezb. I don´t care much (neither of those I am affiliated to)..so rest assured that there is no rant involved concerning that.
But tell me, what is your rant with the IDF able to defeat the arabs again and again? Are you at least from one of those nations? If not…what is that for you at all?
Do you care as well that the Indians again and again defeated the Pakistanis?

spinworthy .

Frank you take us for fools when you display your ignorance (or deception) so evidently.
Just take a look at the confessional demographic map of Lebanon please! It is such a mixed up patchwork of ethnic and religious groups that is as far from homogeneous as can be ascribed to any state in the world. All of these groups have their own interests, and most of them only tolerate the others for their own gain. Is it any question as to why it’s renowned in the ME as a haven of corruption. After all, with so much jockeying, the government is a barely there phantom, and the army is less than capable of defending a political consensus, if there will ever be one.
You talk like yankee equivocators who apply ridiculously overblown political concepts as critiques of so-called failed states. Lebanon is a patchwork mosaic that only gets along to do business. It’s army could only ever be as effective as you ‘want’ it to be when there is a real functioning government in Beirut.
In the meantime I think that everybody is just fine with Hezb doing the heavy lifting and protecting the homeland from the murdering thieves next door.

Frank Behrens

Wow, people starting like that “you display ignorance (or deception) so evidently” ..that ´s great, shows manners, adultry , senisbility and sophisticastion …congrats.
Well, why do you even assume that I don`t know a thing or two about the Lebanon?
Well, I was living for some years on this planet and not on an far away island without any media.
Your description of the situation is valid , but it does not explain or justifies the armed units of Hezb.
ALL factions had to give (and should) up there weapons and /or join and form the national army of ALL lebanse people …which is a vital step for the unity and peace of the Lebanon (otherwise, I see the danger of another civil war along secterian lines) .

“It’s army could only ever be as effective as you ‘want’ it to be when there is a real functioning government in Beirut.”

Exactly …and why aren´t people interessted on an functional strong national army ? Who would lose most if that happens? Hezbollah…cause without an armed force , they would for sure lose political influence…they would be just one of the many political parties /factions .

And why is hezb. better suited to defend the Lebanon (more then the national army) ?

besides…they can´t do that anymore…between the IDF and HezB. is now a strip manned by the UNfill forces and national army.since 2006..and I guess that is the reason why there is no fighting since then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_in_Lebanon

Besides…againthe question: why should Israel attack the Lebanon?

Frank Behrens

Which is nonsense of the finest.

That my comments are illogical ..well, that is just your plain opinion..unsupported by any arguments and reasons.

Hez hasn`t done anything to “tame” Israel…which isn`t even one of there goals (do read their program and statements).
If Hez so eagerly protects Lebanon together with the army…well, good, fine…let them join them then …what would be the reason to refuse ? You think they would lose strength by doing that?

And you last sentence is, pardon me, utter nonsense. By suggesting that the armed force of Hez joins and merges with the army (normaly if two parties join and fuse they become stronger) I (wow, what an mighty entity I seem to be) want Israel to allow to bash up Lebanon army again and again?
Perhaps you want to rethink that…

Oh, and I still have not heard a reasons at all, why Israel should attack the Lebanon in the near future…

Joe

LMAO, you practically are unable to refute me on all points . I based on facts while you on your desired figments of imagination .

Facts are all there. One for Israel fore most is Hezbollah and never stop to ensure they cannot arm themselves with even basic arms.

Since 2006 Israel has not dated to attack Hezbollah which is the sworn enemy of Israel while aIsrael still routinely attack poor Gaza.

Which is the worse… Hamas or Hez and you say no reason?

Accept the fact that 20k Lebanese ate saved every year since 2006 and till now Hezbollah has not invaded Israel which is not their intent

Frank Behrens

Facts? ^^…well, I am still waiting for your facts. Untill now you presented your personal opinion.
And , please, could you work on your english…it is hard to understand and follow you…

Joe

Latest info has it that now the Lebanese army will join Hezbollah to defend Lebanon if you do not know.

So don’t post bull

Frank Behrens

no, that IS bullshit. A national army responsible to the elected gov. joining a secterian militia ?
There is a good reason why country don´t allow “private” armed forces beside the national police and army.

The Latin Mass

Stop trying to train a jewish goblin into a human, it does not work. The jew wants to murder you and charge your family for the bullets used to murder you. Do you have any idea how evil jews are? The jew is completely evil.

Solomon Krupacek

in ni country should exist alternative army.

and dont come with america, because the national guards are not army. hezbollah is state in the state. in the interest of lebano is, that only the army exists.

Gary Sellars

yeah, you would….

Rex drabble

He is a knob head mate.

Rex drabble

Oh no! theres two of you! Are you twins?

alejoeisabel

You may be correct, but Hezbollah is the most effective deterrent to Israeli aggression and impunity.

Frank Behrens

Still it is the task of the national army to do that (protect one´s country). The untits could and should join the army and merge with them ..and thus strengthen the national army.
There is NO real reason why there should be a force beside the national army.

Savio

Lebanon national army is not efective against Israel. Hezbolah is. Israel is not woried about Lebanon national army, they are woried about Hezbolah.

Frank Behrens

still not the point. If the Lebanon national army should be not effective , that´s partly because the Hezbollah refused to merge and join with it. Israel had and has no direct ambitions to attack the Lebanon (why should they)…but they respond to Hezbollah . And no, before that comes up, Hezbollah isn`t defensive towards Israel (and after the retreat from the south Lebanon, there is no real justified reason)- If you vowed to destroy an entity, as the Hezbollah does, small wonder if that entity is hostile to you and concerned.

Hezbollah’s spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin, however, said that

the Hezbollah campaign to rid Shebaa of Israeli troops is a pretext for something larger. ‘If they go from Shebaa, we will not stop fighting them’, he told [The New Yorker]. ‘Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine,… The Jews who survive this war of liberation can go back to Germany or wherever they came from.’ He added, however, that the Jews who lived in Palestine before 1948 will be ‘allowed to live as a minority and they will be cared for by the Muslim majority.'”[36]

David Pryce

So what your saying is the biggest strongest deterrent against Israeli aggression should disband and join the Lebanese army. Lebanon structures of government from PM down although secular weakens the the country of Lebanon.
In a future where Israel respects UN requests for compliance on there obvious disregard for international law, I’m sure hezbollah will eventually disband.
But as the strongest opposition to Israeli acts of war. The better equipped trained and ideological ships will remain until Israel is gone or accepts its place among the nations of the Arab and Islamic world. Its not European should not be allowed to declare itself so and be forced to build bridges with its neighbours. As the article said “Israeli aggressive posturing threats and air strikes show it knows there wrong diplomatically historically and a culture lost in time.
There European land thieves only 8 percent of Palestine in 1900s where sé metric Jews.

Frank Behrens

I am not defending Israel here , which indeed

“So what your saying is the biggest strongest deterrent against Israeli aggression should disband and join the Lebanese army”

And in which was would that weaken the defence of the Lebanon?

“In a future where Israel respects UN requests for compliance on there
obvious disregard for international law, I’m sure hezbollah will
eventually disband.”

Why should the Hezb. do that ?

According to their own programm and speeches, one of there aim is to destroy Israel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_Hezbollah

aaaand for sure my favourite:

https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots-1.5411201

(Note, that I am not defending Israel here on it´s behaviour towards certain resolutions.)

“There European land thieves only 8 percent of Palestine in 1900s where sé metric Jews”

Which is not correct…half of the jewish citizens of Israel are the so called sephardim, which are more or less arabs .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Jews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMgd9mydSRA

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97O0z2fBJsU

Aaaaand my favourite:

Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots

https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots-1.5411201

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/05/000509003653.htm

Terra Cotta Woolpuller

Typical argument conflating issues seems the sources you relied on are also conflating and not actually being honest. Now examine carefully how they all misunderstood the question at First, while they were asking a question and later talked about ethnicity and religion. The question is a standard loaded question “how do you define yourself?” but only 2 choices were offered Isreali Jew or Arab. The examples they used are from secular societies which frown on the usage of religions as identifiers with ones nation. Thing is Judaism is a break off from Zoroastrian religion so not really a base religion as many are not Christianity introduced Bhuddist, Hindu teachings and Zoroastrian mysticism so really not a judaism.

Frank Behrens

shessh, I know right from the start that you and consorts would LOVE that.
Face it, they ARE your (genetically) relatives .
So, tell me, what´s an arab?
And whatever Judaism is (and if it is a direct break off from Zoroastrian …then Christianity and Islam are that as well, since they are break offs of Judaism).
that doesn`t indeed has to do with genetics.
You can be an arabic speaking Muslim, Christian, Jew, Pagan or Atheist.
Who is the arab? And who is not?

Terra Cotta Woolpuller

Well DNA tells a different story which places the bulk of the dna in Europe and not tied to Sephardics since they are descendants of the Mahgrebs which means “where the sun sets” West” in Arabic. The word Saracen described easterners and is another Arabic word.Well for the word Arab it was a loose term and even used to describe the sons of Noah as Arabs, Armaens speaking the semitic language. when you compare the usage of a loose term as barbaros by the Greeks or Barbarus by the Romans in describing all those outside their regions as that you see how these terms are really irrelevant. The word in the Arabic language i’rabi means those who speaks clearly and the opposite is ajam which means those who speak indistinctly. You will never get the true meaning as it is more of term used by Europe as is Barbary has been.

I find it funny how you left out the older religions of Hindu and Bhuddism the ignorance is just because your pride was hurt at that.

Your last question on who is an Arab and who is not? is such an unloaded question is easy your Sephardic are of Arabic origin and your Ashkenazi are of European origin.

Should never ask a question that by digging up the past it can be answered and solved.

Frank Behrens

I sometimes wonder, Woolpuller, cause from time to time you do write indeed with a degree of intelligence, very unlikely for these side…well then.
I will answer in kind in a few hours…

Frank Behrens

I can´t add indeed much more to your fine short excurse regarding arabs /arabic etc.
And that the jewish Israelis are (geneticaly) at least the half-brothers of the christian/muslim Palestianians (and I bet, many of those are the descendance of former jewish people….who were in turn themselves a mixed up population mainly consisting of various semitic tribes).
Whatever, as long as we agree that the modern jewish Israelis are a very mixed up poplulation , and not a race upon themselves, and thus not (sole) europeans, as it is so often foolishly said, I am fine with that.
Does this has any greater relevance concerning the situation in Israel (and the Palestinians) ? Non at all, since for the main part they are rather recent immigrants and thus I deem it nonsense to claim any “rights” because of an “ancient” homeland (perhaps a “spiritual/religious” one).

Though I don´t get what Hinduism and Buddhism has to do with it here…

And concerning digging in the past…well, don´t tell me, tell the other less educated ones here who show their primitive black n white conception of the world.

Terra Cotta Woolpuller

Well you seem to want to keep your narrative but in all honesty most are more recent than you think. Jesus studied various religions so would that make him a Jew not in terms today or then as he was banished from the religion because he was teaching things not in the Talmud or Torah. They came from those religions I mentioned that’s why in part we have partial concepts and in whole we have full concepts better understanding.

Frank Behrens

Given there are these theories about that…but no hard facts availlable . Might be he was influenced by visitors from that regions (merchants or even monks/priests) and discussed with them but we have no sources about that. Jesus was born a jew…his religion was jewish and it is uncertain what is goal was…to create a new religion (christianity) or just reform the jewish religion. By that time (as today), there were various sects and religious jewish groups which divert from the orthodoxy of the high temple in Jerusalem (and as so often, the orthodoxy tries to destroy any “dissenters”)

Holy Gark

“And whatever Judaism is”

Judaism was created as a synthetic cult by the ruling class of Babylon/Persia to destroy Phoenicia.

Synthetic cult. Nothing else.

Frank Behrens

wow…together with Ms. Vanderbilt…7-11 responses from three people (one totaly unknown, hasn´t previsiously been involved ) the last 12 hours with the usual primitive tries to provoke…..do I smell bots,/clic-baiters/hunters ? Desperatly trying to to keep me fed? …I am mildly amused. But you do have to do way better if you really want my attention …

Holy Gark

Dear cretin,

When you’re done raving like the lunatic you are, you need to deflate your ego, which is the size of Uranus, and then come to realize that your amusement and attention are of no interest to anyone.

You asked what Judaism was and I, factually, told you.

What is it slimy Talmudic vermin pretending not to be a Talmudic Vermin, you don’t like the truth?

Jacek Wolski

If his amusement and attention are of no interest to anyone, why do you vehemently reply so? And your assumptions that his opinions do not interest anyone, are wrong. Who is the cretin now?

Holy Gark

Replying to his comment doesn’t imply I am interested in giving him attention or entertaining him.

You should work on your logic, cretin.

Jacek Wolski

Your parents must have some intellect giving you a name of Holy Fuck Tard.

Holy Gark

Ah I see. On top on being a lonely idiot, you’re also not too bright.

Jacek Wolski

‘Idiot’ and ‘bright’. Is that the best English vocabulary you can come up with? What terrorist university did you attend?! Ah that’s right, your intellect is sub par, jester school it is then. You’re nothing but a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Holy Gark

I could call dog shit by all sorts of elaborate words but I stick to “dog shit”. You aren’t any different. “Bright” and “idiot” suffice. Or would would you prefer a more detailed description? Something in the range off: Polish vermin collecting welfare in Australia?

Before pointing the finger at terrorism (in indirect (or is it direct?) reference )) to Iran and Hezbollah, see what England and its two whores (the US and Israel) have done for the past century. I’ll spare you the previous centuries-long brutal British colonialism. Why don’t you call them out you top class moron you.

Now, put some heavy metal music and shake that head. Don’t forget to put some clothes on to go collect welfare. Spare a bit of that money for shampoo.

Jacek Wolski

Oh how the mighty have fallen! What would you know about my ancestral roots unless you personally know me, myself and I?! The great world wide web want reveal all if it’s secrets, try harder my friend! ? And what is welfare collecting?! Never delt with it in my life. Please explain this criminal activity since you know so much about it. I do have a lot of spare time for intellectual fleas like yourself, an awesome occupation and a nice car, thanks for pointing that out. I bid you farewell from Australia Mr.Holy Gark.
Ps. How long did it take you to come up with that name?! ?

Holy Gark

Your own comments reveal your ancestry: Warsaw. Last time I checked, it’s in Poland.

I must have hit a nerve for you to justify and clarify your “awesome occupation” and “nice car”.

Your comments also reveal where you live: Australia. Didn’t need to tell me what I already knew.

It’s the second or third time you point to my username. You must, secretly, like it.

Jacek Wolski

You must be an admirer of mine, since you looked up to see where I live. No need to be envious my dear friend, I do live in the greatest country on this planet and I enjoy the fruits of my labours. If you work hard enough, the sky has no limit. You wouldn’t know where to find my nerves, you have to try harder than that. You are nothing more than a mere amusement to me. So I await your reply with abated breath ?

Holy Gark

No admirer – anyone can read the comment on your profile and observe the same.

Not envious – your ego seems to have overtaken your reason again.

“Greatest” is relative but Australia is indeed a beautiful county. I visited 2 times and stayed 2 months each time with my wife and children.

You may think your nerves are stealth but your comments have shown otherwise.

I agree with your statement about work even though I mostly worked smart through my life.

While I don’t come here to amuse you, I am glad I do so anyway.

Jacek Wolski

comment image

Since you’re showing so much disdain, I’ll give you fresh ammunition for you, so fire away ?

Holy Gark

Not sure why you sent the same picture twice but I replied to your earlier one.

The “ammunition” and “fire away” parts of your comment only continue exhibiting your inner insecurities.

Jacek Wolski

So you’re a psychologist now?! You’re abilities continue to astound and amaze me!!! But your insatiable thirst for information about Australia I shall quench! The Pinnacles ?comment image

Holy Gark

Never said or insinuated I am a psychologist.

Drove by that desert with the guide when I was in Australia as well.

Jacek Wolski

I do follow the Taoist school of thought…. to some extent ? And yes, Australia is a lucky country.

Holy Gark

Any Humanist school of taught is good.

Not sure the inhabitant aboriginals of Australia were so lucky.

Jacek Wolski

comment image

Sending postcards from Bremer Bay. Life is hard, but someone has to do it ?

Holy Gark

I was in your neck of the woods last time I visited Australia. The Fitzgerald Park from Perth. A most beautiful place.

That said, you’re still a Polish living in Australia.

Jacek Wolski

You’re a funny bigger! Seems like I found myself a penpal ? That said I must correct you. I am a citizen and I reside in Australia, almost anyone can come and live in Australia as a tourist mate ?

Holy Gark

I visited Australia twice with my wife and children. Stayed 2 months each time. A very beautiful country.

p.s. I was pulling your correction.

Jacek Wolski

You’re not such a bad guy after all ? I’ve been fascinated about the middle East conflict since 1991. I was days away from joining Duntroon Military Collage in Canberra but Australia’s governments support for the US bombing of Iraq left a sour note in my mouth and I tore the contract up. So it’s been 27 years and the circus doesn’t seem nor wants to leave the town. I do have a soft spot for the Kurds but they are so disjointed that an arranged marriaged would stand a better chance of survival and withstand the test of time. Regarding my ancestors, they fought for Polish, Prussian and Russian armies. A mixed bag really, but the past is, what it is. That I can not change. And the only power that seems to keep civility amongst the wolves in the middle east, is the Russian Federation. They seem to be the glue that’s keeping Syria (to some extent) intact. Helps having a good master tactician at the helm. Kudos to Putin I say.

Good day to you Sir

Holy Gark

Good thing you didn’t join the illegal, bogus war in Iraq.

The “circus” started long before with the British East India Company-Levant Company. As I stated in another comment to you: Britain has meddled in the region militarily to keep the region backward economically and culturally. They did the same pretty much everywhere they stepped foot.

I respect your bias for Kurds but they are no angels. Remember how they mercilessly chopped Christian heads when the British-funded Young Turks Party collapsed the Ottoman Empire. More recently (In 2014), Barzani happily coordinated the invasion of Mosul by ISIS along side the England, the US, Israel, the Gulf and Turkey in Jordan – and did nothing to help the fleeing and captured Yazidis. I’ll add: Kurds are essentially Persian gypsies/nomads who never adapted to any host country. Not any different than Jews. No wonder both have been used and abused by the oligarchs of the British Empire for well over a decade.

I agree about Russia/Putin. Hopefully, the Humanist side will twarth the degenerates once and for all.

Good day to you as well.

Jacek Wolski

That is so pleasant to see that you care about my reply ?. More attention please, cretin.

Holy Gark

You comment to me. I reply. If you think that’s giving you attention, suit yourself.

Jacek Wolski

That I shall young man ?

Holy Gark

Did you tap your own shoulder when you wrote that? What makes you think I am younger than you?

In all seriousness, quit being such an imbecile and don’t jump in discussions that don’t involve you.

Jacek Wolski

Oh please enlighten me, your reason for calling another person a ‘cretin’. Low self-esteem issues or you’re just a school yard bully? Mr. Gark who hides behind a Holy computer facade ?

Holy Gark

I am glad you confirm not to be bright. I’ll be glad to enlighten you.

If you go back in the thread, you’ll see that I simply replied to a question/statement asked by Frank Behrens about Judaism. For some reason, he saw it as a provocation, called me a “usual primitive” and other silliness.

You decided to step in but only addressed me for allegedly calling him a “cretin”.

Drop your act and pick up your uterus off the floor, it has nothing to do with me calling him a cretin. It was about me calling out your beloved Talmudic vermin – which is rather strange (or hypocritical) – coming from someone, you, who calls out religious zealots but not them.

Jacek Wolski

I’ve picked my team, you’ve picked yours. Now enjoy the show.

Holy Gark

You picked nothing. You shows how much of a lonely imbecile you are.

Holy Gark

You picked a team? Strange. Don’t you preach about co-living, sharing, morality and what not?

Drop your act. You’re just a cunning idiot who pretends to be humanist.

Holy Gark

You confirmed it was never about me calling him a “cretin” but to have called your “side”.

Which is strange. Don’t you preach about co-living, sharing, morality and what not?

Drop your act. You’re just a cunning idiot who pretends to be humanist.

And if it’s not an act, you’re either a top class imbecile who docilely swallowed the stories dictated by the oligarchs or you’re honest but duped.

Holy Gark

Where do you see a provocation? You asked what Judaism was and I told you.

For someone who pretends not to be a Talmudic slime, you sure are easily irritated when British-IsraHell and its servants, the Israelis, are mentioned.

RedBaron9495

You really are a Jewish shill or just plain dumb!
Hezbollah has not fired a missile or a rockes since the end of the 2006 war, which is now over a decade ago…..yet in that time the IDF has tried to sneak across the Lebanese borders several times..
There was one famous recorded incident, when IDF accidentally stepped on a land mine on the Lebanese side which killed 3 of the IDF. This is only a few years back!
The Israel Air-force regularly invades Lebanese airspace….often firing at Syrian targets from the Lebanese side.

Frank Behrens

why I am not surprise by such bad manners and stupidity ? —well,

Did I , oh flower of attention, ever wrote otherwise. On the contrary..since the blue line there were indeed no more rockets from Hezb. (guess why?).
Err, and in which time did the IDF tried to sneak across the border after 2006?
And again, why should Israel attack the Lebanon (or even sneak in? what would they gain? lnew land for new jewish settlements? ^^).

RedBaron9495

There are plenty of articles of IDF sneaking across the Lebanese border ….including the land mine incident. Maybe they were examining Hezbollah defenses.
Do your own homework…..Google those articles and you will learn more instead of using that HASBARA technique of “Deflection”
Why did those scummy Israelis invade Lebanon twice in it’s short history?

Frank Behrens

oh please, it shouldn?t be to difficult and time consuming to present some links to that for such a clever Baron like you?

And why those Israelis , which do you so dearly are obsessed of, invaded the Lebanone ? Well, I could do the reverse and tell you to
” Do your own homework…..Google those articles and you will learn more instead of constantly showing your inabilties”

But to make it short…they were constantly harrased by the PLO first from the Lebanon …later on by the HezB.

Frank Behrens

I was asking the Redbaron…I didn`t dialed the zero, didn`t I

Frank Behrens

well…interessting

To citate

“The truth about what actually happened on August 7 may forever be
disputed, but it remains clear that Hezbollah still seeks to avoid a
conflict with Israel — despite Nasrallah’s seemingly confident claim of
responsibility.The timing and wording
of his messaging, coupled with the lack of an IDF response, reinforces
the assumption that the bombing was defensive in nature, and not meant
to provoke. Indeed, conventional wisdom would suggest that a conflict
with Israel would not suit Hezbollah at a time when its best operatives
are still fighting with the Assad regime in Syria, or protecting
Lebanese Shiites from a beckoning threat of attacks from Sunni
jihadists. ”

Those “daily” violations of the sovereignty of the Lebanon boils down to a patrol (or patrols) of IDF soldiers wandering around in no-mens-land ?

Sesh, yes, the Lebanon´s sovereignty was never more endangered in it´s history then these days…

Larissa Vanderbilt

Wow! Impressive cutting and pasting job there Frank….but it was so obviously not YOUR writing as your own English is ridiculously poor . .what’s your native tongue…Yiddish / Hebrew?

Larissa Vanderbilt

Yeah right! So the raped and beaten previous homeowner attacks the now resident rapist/robbers from outside the now occupied home and is accused of HARASSMENT? Open your eyes man. Why do you keep blaming the victim for the aggression and violence of the invader? Are you so blind that you cannot see? Or is it that you just don’t WANT to see the truth and the real facts…?

Ewan

I have noted that the quality of hasbara trolls like Frank Behrens have declined markedly in the past few years.

Larissa Vanderbilt

All the ones with an IQ higher than 35+ have moved on to work for the MSM. What’s left are the lower bottom feeders with IQs less than 20 such as dutchnational, Jens Holms, Frank Behrens, Solomon Krupacek etc . .

Jacek Wolski

Hezbollah are nothing but brainwashed Neanderthal cave dwellers. Death to them all!

Frank Behrens

to me, they are humans….with fears and hopes…and all the stupidity and genius we humans are able to. I wish them, as all of their “enemies”, peace, wisedom and prosperity…and a life without fears…cause fears are what makes us stupid…stupid is what makes as evil. Evil is, what we fear.

Ewan

Yeah, they gotta “sneak” back, else they gonna get liquidated once more.

Larissa Vanderbilt

A bit of both: a shill and dumb also . . what did his parents do to him?

Boris Kazlov

Jews always lived in peace in Muslim -majority countries, as Ahl-el-Kitab (People of the book).

Frank Behrens

na, let´s say for most of the times…and only as dhimmis

The Latin Mass

That was the problem, jews were victimizing Europeans for 1900 years and for much of it Muslims supported the jew. Once the jew became extremely evil, the Europeans stopped their dislike of jews and started to love the evil jew. About that time, Muslims got clued into the fact that all jews are evil.

Boris Kazlov

And I thought I had already read the most stupid comment in my life.

Ewan

You are either a liar or a fool. Israel WANTS Lebanese territory – at least upto the Litani River.It tried to capture it in 2006 but all they could manage was a photo – op after their helicopter got shot down by Nasrallah – The colonial scum want Eretz Yisrael you monkey, but got served by Hizbollah. Now Iran will hand them their asses -1st recapture Golan, 2nd take Jerusalem, bye bye Fake Jews.

Frank Behrens

yeah, the jewish want the HOLE world (this is known , dimwit) and of cause Iran will do that (after they have solved their domestic social-economic problems)…but only if you behave and be a good boy(and have done something about your inferiority complexes)

Jacek Wolski

Iran has one million heroin addicts, that’s how much they care for their populace. God fearing people that they are ?

RedBaron9495

So they should…..despite superior numbers of 10:1 in 2006, the IDF ran away like the crybabies they are!
Hezbollah much much stronger now in 2018 than a decade ago…..plus reportedly have around 100,000+ rockets & missiles…with some missiles possessing guidance systems.

Holy Gark

Let’s remember:

Hezbollah never attacked Israel. It came to be as a result of israel’s Illegal invasion/occupation of Lebanon. In summer of 2006, the war was planned by Israel (aegis Olmert) as early as January. The goal has always been to occupy up to the Litani river.

Boris Kazlov

Exactly, what matters is who can effectively counter Israel, Hezbollah is the reason there is no invasion and peace on the border, those who want to disband it are the Jews, Saudis and, who else? USAIPAC, the servant.

FlorianGeyer

In that case you must agree that the Kurds within Syria should accept the writ of the elected Syrian government and that the US military should leave Syria immediately as it has NO legal mandate to be there Frank.

Frank Behrens

sure, from the time on when there is an freely and democratic elected government, who askes them to do that.

Paul

Democracy doesn’t exist anywhere. There is an illusion of it. Money talks and everything else is bullshit.

Frank Behrens

well, you know,,..that´s..you personal opinion.
You are living in a democracy? Go and try some dictatorial regimes then.

Or as one said: Democracy is the worst form of government,

except for all the others.

Paul

You called the Iranian government a regime. Is it the truth or personal opinion? Maybe what you think is a dictatorial regime is nothing more then western propaganda. It’s funny how ‘Democratic nations’ love to destroy non ‘democratic nations’. Bombing the infrastructure, killing thousands, leaving those nations in a mess. Of course the majority of the population in the ‘Democratic nations’ usually aren’t in favour of the bombings but the Democratically elected government doesn’t care because the people aren’t the ones who control the politicians. Why, because money talks and everything else is bullshit.

Frank Behrens

The Iran gov. is a regime, like any other (the term regime is neutral fyi….another word for government..both terms from latin sources).
And sorry, I am not starting to discuss now the Iran where the issue is a different one here.

Jens Holm

Thats no oppinion and wellshown and descriebed.You have some religios dictatorship above the secular sector dominanting everything and keeping all new stuff away or downsiezed.

You are – as best -underinformedeven it is well descriebed. The last one is, they now cant learn english as well.

Paul

I live in so called democracy and there many things I disagree with. The media is controlled, the two party system is a scam, debt slavery is policy, people are dumbed down, the US controls our foreign policy, the family unit is being destroyed, housing is unaffordable to many, and slowly but surely we are following Amercia’s lead and creating a working poor while the rich get richer. None of these issues are raised during election time apart housing affordability and even then nothing gets done. The fact is anyone who tries to disrupt the status quo will be silenced. To me it’s a dictatorship, ran by those who control the money. Though having said that, I live comfortably and peacefully just like many Iranians do.

Turbofan

“”””well, you know,,..that´s..you personal opinion.
You are living in a democracy? Go and try some dictatorial regimes then.

Or as one said: Democracy is the worst form of government,

except for all the others”””

Straight from the MSM propaganda booklet

Jens Holm

You can see it by the living standards all over the world. Almost the only exeption is Singapore.

You have rich dictatorships. Thats selling oil, which only was for lamps, if the dictators had decided.

Frank Behrens

at your leal service…

Jens Holm

He dont know what it is. Vomen are hardly women there and kept in the dark, because they are clever then men there.

We see the picture well here even we are working hard to change it. After 3 years 45% of the Syrian men are in job and 15% women, because almost newcomming women er made more stupid from before they even was born.

RichardD

Governments need to be judged by how good of a job that they do, not by the political system that they use. China in a couple of generations has gone from an impoverished country to the planet’s largest economy using a non democratic political system that has improved the lives of it’s citizens, and many others on this planet with it’s quality low cost goods, immensely.

Frank Behrens

If you really think that then you would have to be a staunch anti-Assadist..because that gov. failed in that account (and which was one of the reasons why the people revolted at all)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/may/18/syria-uprising-reform-bashar-al-assad

RichardD

– Syrian Train and Equip Program –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Train_and_Equip_Program

RichardD

comment image

Frank Behrens

yeah, so?
Do you grasp what that means?

Jens Holm

It does live well and is better but not pefect.

Ron Chandler

Frank you just outed yourself as an ignoramus. Go to Wikipedia and look up the election results from Syria. Bashar al-Assad has been freely elected four times as president, once directly, as dictated by the Geneva hotel-dwellers. He is president until 2021. chew on it.

Frank Behrens

I did that:
wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_presidential_election,_2014

and there we find_
A Spokesperson for the United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon warned that amid the ongoing Syrian Civil War and large-scale displacement of Syrian citizens, “such elections are incompatible with the letter and spirit of the Geneva communiqué” and would “damage prospects of a political solution with the opposition. We will, nonetheless, continue to search and build upon any opening to a solution to the tragedy in Syria.”[21][31]

You really wants us to believe that this was a fair and democratic election? )next I claim that the funny fat guy in north corea is elected freely..and he got even 100 per. of the votes).
Forgive me, but from one who shows even the regime´s flag and outing himself thus as a staunch supporter of that said regime and Bashar I do remain my doubts…but for sure every is entitled to his own delusions and reality.
And according to Joe here, democracy and free elections are an illusion…n est pas ?

Besides: what again has that to do with the issue here?

Rex drabble

Wow you really have no sense of shame do you.You actually believe the corrupt UN.
You do a fantastic job of showing your own self up.

Frank Behrens

I don´t see anything on which I should be ashamed here …but I expected that someone would show up with the usual UN is corrupt (and for sure also ruled by the Zionists and the Rothschilds) . So, we can tell Israel that they don´t have to bother about UN resolutions ….they are corrupt …oops, that is eactly what the israel gov. wants us to believe in ^^.

Joe

Hello, do you know that Assad wanted free elections monitored by UN , you guys said no.

Another fact, the turn out of VOTERS OUTSIDE SYRIA we’re overwhelming with very long lines scrabbling to vote for Assad.

This has been proven but then even with rock solid evidence, the nuts in the west says. No not recognised.

Same with Crimea
but happily recognize Kosovo.

Message to them is ‘go and fly your kites somewhere’

Jens Holm

Hahaha. What a timewaste. Next time I will boil an egg when I read You not wasting my time 100%.

Joe

Well as usual when you guys are confronted with facts you cannot dispute these are the type answers. I have come across tons of such Western trolls

Just Google it eg Syrian elections in Lebanon

Jens Holm

I not even have to. Its common knowledge here for many years. I know exact how things are and they are in % down to the last olive and even cutting that.

The Syrian Constitution as well as it is kept are same things.

You can compare Lebanon some with Iraq. Here its mainly % in oil as well as shiits has no respect for others.

If You run the busisnees like that, they have You and chaos as well as mismanegement based on false and false = true.

Another version is comming with some terrible assumption and after that blame others for it.

A kind of funny ones was last month russians transporting ISIS leaders for USA by a videogame. hahaha. If thats not branding Russia, I dont know, what it is.

Joe

Just what are you babbling about with irrelevant rants no one understands.

Instead of typing so long of nothing, just Google Syrian elections in Lebanon is much easier.

Well I know you know the answer and it is just too embarrassing to admit.

Assad is Syrians’ choice . No one else.

RichardD

JH is an idiot.

RichardD

Exactly:

– Syrians in Lebanon battle crowds to vote for Bashar al-Assad –

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/28/syrians-lebaanon-vote-assad-embassies-refugees-boycott

Frank Behrens

Oh, you care about giving us a link about that ?
I would like to see such “rock solid” evidences….
And strange enough…why didn´t he suggested that (and allowed free election and a free press) before the war started?

RichardD

“A recent poll”

– Over 70% want Syria’s Assad to remain in power –

https://www.rt.com/politics/official-word/320261-assad-france-poll-figaro/

Joe

Wow trying to dispute me ! Ha don’t try .
You think I am your teacher or what. Told you to Google and you still like a typical troll refuse to accept facts.

Here is just one link of many by your Western media
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/05/28/this-is-what-the-syrian-election-looks-like-in-lebanon/?utm_term=.ef72c1cd0850

If that does not change your mind, stop posting here as your creditability goes out if the windows.

Like I experienced with your past posts, mostly are all pure rubbish and in denial of facts.

Frank Behrens

na, not really…where there is nothing ,there is nothing to dispute over…

and I have just waited for that article (you guys are predictable, you know …drowing from the same small base of sources ).

Sooo, another easy one: (errr, besides…isn`t that western media? They are lying, …always…and are controlled by the Zionists…didn´t anyone told you?)

How many votes in Lebanon for Assad? Or voted at all? I read something about 30.000 – 80.000…impressing? Well, how many syrian refugees are in Lebanon? 1,1 million?…so , less then 10 percent voters?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/05/syrian-expats-divided-over-presidential-vote-2014528102522416850.html

“The Syrian ambassador to Lebanon, Ali Abdul Karim Ali, told Al Jazeera
that only pre-registered Syrians who have entered Lebanon legally could
vote.

“In reality, however, anyone could practically walk into the small and
stuffy polling room and cast their ballot – in public and under the eyes
of the poll workers – without having their papers checked.”

“Rabab said she was voting not only because she supported Assad, but also because they heard rumours that those who did not vote would not be
allowed to return home.”

“Several
opposition activists claim that officials from the Syrian embassy have
toured refugee encampments threatening that the regime would keep a
record of all those who did not cast their ballots.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/world/middleeast/syrian-exiles-in-lebanon-vote-in-advance-of-national-ballot.html

“Mr. Assad’s supporters said the vote gave him new legitimacy and showed
that many supported him freely, even as scenes at some polls sharpened
questions about the credibility of the process, with no private booths,
votes cast by some under-age Syrians and apparently lax control over who
received ballots.”

Joe

As usual cornered start posting rubbish .

The picture tells a thousand words.
I purposely chose the article from Washington Post as it was/is/will be against Assad .

Yet the pictures showed not one supporter not supporting Assad!
Anyway I am convinced you have not the brain to conclude.

The paper would have spared no effort to discredit the type of response which I remembered made west speechless.

Anyway no point teaching a Zombie.
I think you are in a wrong page . Go to fox news or cannot or BBC
There you find lots of cheer leaders of the same mind

Here I see Everytime you post anything you get blastered and demolished.

Terra Cotta Woolpuller

Instead of using Fox as they will let loose with a truth bomb once in awhile using CNN or MSNBC is accurate ones to watch. Then again talking heads only read teleprompters.

Frank Behrens

Indeed,
some grunts and illogical statements from the frustrated one I see.
A picture might tell more then one thousand words…but it doesn`t neccessarily shows as the (hole, complex) err…uhm…picture .

“I purposely chose the article from Washington Post as it was/is/will be against Assad .”
Err, why do you think the Washington Post is against Assad? Haven´t they shown the masses of voters in Lebanon?

“Yet the pictures showed not one supporter not supporting Assad!”

err, how could there even be a supporter who don`t supports something ?^^

!Anyway no point teaching a Zombie.
I think you are in a wrong page . Go to fox news or cannot or BBC
There you find lots of cheer leaders of the same mind!

So stop answering to me, oh King of all Zombies ! And shamble off…

Frank Behrens

and wow…if that does not convince you..stop posting here …you guys are such geniuses and very good in confincing someone ^^-
And if my posts are all rubbish and in denial…why answer to me at all…you can surely better use with your time, don`t you?

RedBaron9495

Ban Ki-Moon was nothing but a Washington controlled puppet….he is irrelevant. He does not represent International Law at all!

Frank Behrens

strange…the israelis (especially the right winged ones) constantly claim that the UN is indeed irrelevant (because beeing a puppet of the arabs and anti-jewish) …and why should they care about any UN resolution?

RedBaron9495

Go and toll somewhere……you are obviously paid by somebody to disrupt discussion on this Forum.
The Saker would be wise to IP ban you!

Frank Behrens

gods…we are not on the Saker..we are here at southfront…thus the Saker can ban me all it wants. And my only payment here is the entertainment and fun I do get out of here ^^

Jens Holm

hahahahhahahhahaha. Thats no elections.

Jacek Wolski

No free thinking person would use Wikipidia ? only the sheep do!

Rex drabble

Perhaps you could explain why the Syrian people flock to see him in public and why,if he was this dictator etc,he hasnt been murdered.I will save you the trouble of making some thing up…Its because he is Loved by his people because he could have easily run away but he chose to stay and defend the people and country he loves.Sadly there is an endless stream of ignorant fools like you.

Jens Holm

They probatly get money by it. Hard to get an income there unless You produce coffins or flowers.

David Pryce

Very sad and unhuman heartless thing to say
Whatever you believe regarding Assad the Syrian ppl have been butchered, raped mass killings executions. If only they where Jews. Christians where abandoned by NATO slaughtered in there thousands so Halliburton McCain and his Russian traitor oil arch could Rob the Syrian oil while cutting of Russian oil to western Europe
SOROS NWO- 0-2 – SYRIA ? lol

RichardD

– Over 70% want Syria’s Assad to remain in power –

https://www.rt.com/politics/official-word/320261-assad-france-poll-figaro/

RedBaron9495

Why don’t you peddle your nonsense on CNN or some Libtard forum?
You really think Syrian Govt has free cash to give away, when 20,000 people come out onto the streets to support him?
Get out of here!

Jacek Wolski

You shout loudly, but carry a wee baby twig ?

Frank Behrens

sure, and then you explain to me why the people flock around Kim jong-un ?

comment image

Joe

Let me tell you, these US/Israeli trolls will find all kinds of nonsensical replies.

They do not seemed to be well informed. Most of their postings can be very easily demolished really and when they can’t response they will use nonsensical replies or just say don’t want to waste time etc

Too experienced with these Western MSM zombies yet see them regularly here reading facts they refute.

Wonder why they come to this site

The Latin Mass

No self-respecting zombie ‘merican would ever find southfront. They are too busy with the “The problem with the world is the Democrats” “No… it’s the Republicans!”. “CNN is fake news”… “No… Faux News is fake news”. “Conservatives are responsible for the 20 trillion in debt” “No… it is the Liberals”. Such is zombie talk and it goes on and on. They don’t have any truth in their brains, which is probably why they are zombies. ‘Merica was hit with a zombie apocalypse long ago. Any thinking Americans left will find Southfront. Ones that think they are thinking but are not thinking will find Alex Jonestown and his beware of the Saudi Globalist Islamic New World Order that is fighting the jews (Alex Jones still is spouting zionist propaganda).

Jacek Wolski

Let me fix that for you, these Hezbollah/Iranian trolls will find all kinds of nonsensical replies.

They do not seemed to be well informed. Most of their postings can be very easily demolished really and when they can’t response they will use nonsensical replies or just say don’t want to waste time etc

Too experienced with these Shit zombies yet see them regularly here reading facts they refute.

Wonder why they come to this site

Holy Gark

How exactly do you “demolish” Hezbollah’s raison d’être, their stance against Israel’s attacks and invasions, etc?

Do tell.

Jacek Wolski

Which fairy tale would you like me to read out to you today? The one about Hezbollah’s heavenly victories? Your head is so far up your arse you wouldn’t know reality if it hit you in the face!

Holy Gark

I can care less about “heavenly” victories.

All I know is that Hezbollah came to be after Israel’s illegal invasion and occupation of the south of Lebanon. Occupation that causes the death of upwards of 50K civilians on the Lebanese side. For some reason, they don’t matter to you, why? Don’t you preach about morality?

The victories were real. After almost 20 years of occupation, Israel retreated. Israeli military officials called it a “humiliating defeat”. The war of Summer of 2006 wasn’t any different: Israel lost. For the record, the war was planned by Israel as early as January of that year, the alleged capture of IDF at a border post only served as bogus casus belli. Read the Israeli Winograd report on the way and Olmert’s own official and leaked testimonies.

Jacek Wolski

Your opinions will not influence political world events that hold sway around the globe. Make most from the little time we have on this wonderful earthly host. Have a wonderful day, I do appreciate your insightful comments as you’re not a bad man amongst humankind after all.

Holy Gark

Words never wrote history, bullets did. I don’t come here and write to influence the continuation of what started back in Persia/Babylon thousands of years ago. I do so to express a personal opinion based on the culmination of readings and their cross-examinations. I hope to educate and be educated in the process in civil discussions.

Your statement about that scarcity of time is wise. I wish we (and by “we” I mean you) started on a better foot as you seem courteous, intelligent (though hypocritical*) and knowledgeable (to a certain extent**).

That said, I too wish you a good day.

* You denounce God (not judging but stating) and religions in general but never Judaism (which is nothing but the shunning Babylonian/Persian Pharisaism in reality).

You denounce Iran but never Wahhabi Saudi Arabia who using its vast oil wealth, quietly spread its ultra-conservative brand of Islam throughout the Muslim world, secretly undermining secular regimes in its region and prudently kept to the shadows, while others did the fighting and dying. Their money fueled the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan, underwrote Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Iran, and bankrolled Islamic movements and terrorist groups from the Caucuses to Hindu Kush. You omit that real culprits (I believe it’s out of honest ignorance) and whisper a word or two about the degenerate Americans (the real culprits’ military arm).

Want the Kurds to be free and have their land when their demise is entirely attributable to the Anglos and then Anglo-Americans who have been using and abusing them as proxies to wage conflicts/wars in exchange for a land that never came – but conveniently ignore the plight of the Palestinians who’s lands were stolen by foreigners with no ties to the land to then be displaced and oppressed for decades.

** You regurgitate the mainstream narrative when it comes to historical events:

• picture of Al-Husseinin with Nazis – when he (like Hitler) was supported by the oligarchs who instigated WW1 and 2. You should educate yourself on the ties between the Britain and the Muslim Brotherhood.

• blame the chaos of the Middle East on Islam when the Brits intervened militarily in the region since the 18th century to keep it backwards economically and culturally. Remember how Britain put Charles Henry Churchill in charge to destoey Mohamed Ali’s and his progressist/humanist vision of transformation the ME to an advanced regions. Or how Britain fomented anti-French tensions between the Maronites and Druze .

Davki

Wow, you are an interventionist. Is that your understanding of international law, to militarily invade sovereign countries because you happen to declare them undemocratic? Having said that, Syria under Asad is, of course, undemocratic and he is a dictator.

Jens Holm

I think You shall forget those feelings for anything like fx Syria, and Iraq. Those leaderships follow nothing of that themselves.

Most of those rules were made in 1945 to stabilize the world after WW2 by westerns and Japan. Today they are so outdated, because people allover the world – or most of it – has had time to behave themselves.

But many dont do that and do not respect that at all. How and why should we respect that. That of course include USA and Russia.

Frank Behrens

I don´t understand how I am an interventionist, pray tell? Did I called for an intervention? I just said that I would concure to an freely, fair and democratic elected syrian gov. has the right to ask the Kurds to be loyal to the state and to the US military (or any other foreigners) to leave the country.

RichardD

What is it about he won the election and would win another that you don’t understand:

“A recent poll”

– Over 70% want Syria’s Assad to remain in power –

https://www.rt.com/politics/official-word/320261-assad-france-poll-figaro/

Frank Behrens

wow, one internet poll…great…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq1SNQ_-oTo

https://www.wholewhale.com/tips/how-to-win-or-cheat-any-online-voting-contest/

http://www.matctimes.com/news/view.php/508999/How-to-quothackquot-online-polls
Besides, I can´t nfind the original poll in Figaro.,..would you be so kind an give me the link to the original poll?

RichardD

Zioshill much?

Disprove that Assad doesn’t have a pluralistic mandate, didn’t win the election, and wouldn’t win another. Not with a mindless rant, but with credible proof.

– Over 70% want Syria’s Assad to remain in power –

https://www.rt.com/politics/official-word/320261-assad-france-poll-figaro/

Jens Holm

That was before the uprise and included the ones, which just will in no change as usual.

RichardD

“A recent poll”

– Over 70% want Syria’s Assad to remain in power –

https://www.rt.com/politics/official-word/320261-assad-france-poll-figaro/

RedBaron9495

Nearly 1.5 million Syrian refugees voted in Lebanon!
There were so many Syrians on the streets of Beirut wanting to vote, that they had to extend voting an extra day!
Assad is popular….and has the support of around 70% of population….even more so now, if he’s able to save the country and it’s sovereignty.
You are on the wrong side of history once again…..a meddling European Libtard!

Frank Behrens

Zioshill? …what´s that ?^^ I know about the ancient germanic war god Zio /Ziu

https://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziu

Disaprove? Well, for sure he won the election…who ever doubted that (even before the election started) ? Rigged election do tend to deliver the results desired.
Let´s make a deal…give us a credible proof that the election were free and just ..

RichardD

– Over 70% want Syria’s Assad to remain in power –

https://www.rt.com/politics/official-word/320261-assad-france-poll-figaro/

FlorianGeyer

There is a freely elected government in Syria now that is led by President Assad.

Frank Behrens

and another one freely elected in north corea…I know…and the former gov. of eastern germany was also freely elected, but was toppled by an CIA-conspiracy where foreign agents were involved….please spare me, Ossi.

FlorianGeyer

In the faux ‘democracy’ loving Western countries there are usually two dominant parties that swap seats in elections and are both from a barrel of shit. In Germany we now again see the two parties that seek to destroy the ancient German heritage as they have been obliged to blend their barrels of shit into a larger barrel of shit again.

When a truly democratic vote such as Brexit happens and the ‘wrong result’ happens the Zio Marxist elite is outraged and demands another vote to get the ‘right result’.

Frank Behrens

Yeah, the usual bullshit and trash from those oh-so-patriots from Dunkeldeutschland.
Yeah, I know, it ´s sooo hard when those idiots out there don`t vote the way I would like it…I feel your pain. They constantly fail to recognize that I am far superior and should rule them (better for them) ..I blame it on the media !
Who exactly is demanding a revote in GB? Who are those Zio-Marxist ? And isn`t the vote honoured?

RichardD

– Over 70% want Syria’s Assad to remain in power –

https://www.rt.com/politics/official-word/320261-assad-france-poll-figaro/

RichardD

– Over 70% want Syria’s Assad to remain in power –

https://www.rt.com/politics/official-word/320261-assad-france-poll-figaro/

Jens Holm

Not at all. Lebanoin has a structure which by the constitution divede the power in religion, sects in % after population.

Therefore the locals of them also have big local influence.

Their problems are among others, that the arabic population has grown and at the same time others has emmigrated, so they have to update those changes, which is very hard in a fair way.

Syria dont do that at all. Its winner take all and a majority rulle. In princip 51% can do whatever they want with the 49%.

Again I am very surprice people of yours now that little and even then comment things like You do.

Both the lebanese and the syrian consitution is free to read here at the internet written by many sources as well as in many kind of letters.

Hard to impressed and thats why so many incompetent comments are here. Most internal killing of Yours seeemes based on, You dont know about each other or use fabricated lies of the worst kind.

I know more about You about ME even I only was in Beirut Twice 30 years ago. One was just changing airplane.

FlorianGeyer

The killing in Syria and Iraq for that matter is all due to the outright aggression or proxy aggression by the USA and Israel as you know full well Jens , so please desist from peddling your Libtarded agenda here.

Jens Holm

I never has denied that extra bonus.

Reading above the question is ” Putin “allowing” Israel to bomb Syria.

I cant see Iraq in that as well as USA being specific making russians to allow Israel to bomb Syria.

FlorianGeyer

There are times in life, even in Denmark, when it is wise to either dodge an attack or roll with the punch.

It is always unwise to react harshly if only pride or a small scratch is the result of an attack on oneself.

Time and patience give the ability for the aggrieved to respond to aggressive attacks in ways that are strategic and balanced and a balanced but successful response always leaves the possibility for stronger action if required later.

RichardD

The Syrian government foot print grows every day. Those who are unhappy about that look for alternative things to criticize to distract attention from the fact that Syria is winning the war. And the regime change and those behind it that they support are losing.

Davki

In the case of Lebanon, there is every reason. That is, because the Lebanese army mostly is, and has been ineffectual and not above sectarianism. These
are the practical reasons on the ground. Also, Hezbollah is
cooperating with the Lebanese army. Now, on theoretical grounds
(theory of state and governance), you’re right but that doesn’t help
people seeking actualy protection from arbitrary attacks and
incursions. I’ve been to Lebanon, Baabek region relatively recently,
and boy, was I glad for Henzbollah to protect the area. What a most
real reason that is too! Nothing your theoretical ‘wisdom’ can take
away. You do realise that IS infiltrated Lebanon, right? Car bombs,
people murdered, right? Hezbollah was instrumental in removing that
threat. No real reason? Dead relatives, friends? Would you rather
trust an impotent army that was never able or willng to protect its
people, even long before Hezbollah had become a meaningful force? I
invite you to come out of your ivory tower, live where the bombs
explode and tell the things you say here to people’s faces there.

Frank Behrens

You may have some valid points here. But I say that it would still be the task of a national army to protects it´s state and people . Why does the hezb. has to protect people ? Because the national army is too weak? Why is the national army too weak? (and…is that really the case?)
And why is the Hezb (military arm) stronger and better suited to protect the lebanon?

Jens Holm

Facts are not like that. Hesbollah today even are in the Goverment as I remember it.

Boris Kazlov

There is a reason based on facts, Hezbollah is more organized and cohesive, without fascist French-speaking phalangists

Frank Behrens

try to tell that one of those facist frech-speaking phalangists.

Boris Kazlov

Wy should I tell them?, it’s like speaking to the wall, like speaking to you, you will remain a ZIonist forever, praising empire even if it is a dead man walking, zombie empire.

Frank Behrens

Carefull now, with such a fine jewish surname (I should know, since I am , according to some nice people here, either some kind of super-jewish Rabbi and/or from the Hasbara) ^^

Jens Holm

Yerrrh, and see the result … What a succes.

Only Iran likes it, because they send the most mad of there own to there.

Boris Kazlov

Hezbollah is stronger and more battle-hardened than the Lebanese Army, which should merge into Hezbollah.

Ewan

Rewritten: “Hezbollah is stronger and more battle-hardened than the ISRAELI Army” Israeli army has the most experience bombing civilians and fighting Hamas who have their hands tied behind their backs and still manage to fight back.

Holy Gark

Hezbollah never attacked Israel.

What’s your point?

Ewan

That sure says a lot for the mad dog image of Israel – Superpower bully afraid of 3000 “terrorists”

Terra Cotta Woolpuller

Then why haven’t the Phalangists and Maronites laid down in your own words, Hezbollah is political entity in Lebanon. The Lebanese army isn’t crying just murderers and war criminals doing it and are afraid they will be removed from power by the popular vote.

Frank Behrens

Because I ´ve never heard about the huge weaponary the Phalangists, or any other faction in Lebanon, posses ( I don´t doubt that they all have some hidden stock pile of weapons…but mostly light weapons).
Every analyst agrees that the Hezbollah by far is the most strongest faction there (thanks to the support of the Iran regime…and thus are dependent to a certain degree to Teheran).
Public vote? I doubt that Hezbollah cares much about “public votes”.
They don`t care much about their own elected parliament and gov. …and were often enough asked to give up there weapons.

Lupus

U don’t know, u doubt, u never heard about… ur full of shit and smell bad from the filth u represent.

Frank Behrens

and you are unreasonable, childish, without manners and complexes, orc. But I have seen that coming…so no surprise

Jens Holm

You are much worse. He is mainly proven right in this. Most of Yours is not.

I normally disagree with both of You.

Lupus

Lol i don’t care go f*ck urself bi*ch ?

Jens Holm

Yes, You just confirm we see few facts from You as well as others making no solutions as well as not even try to.

My mother do others. When she dies, I can buy Spain. We have no oranges here.

Lupus

lmao go take ur meds and hush boy. Spain doesnt want u to buy the country ?

Boris Kazlov

Let him wait for his mother to die and see what he does then.

Terra Cotta Woolpuller

Let’s see the Phalangists and Maronites were responsible for Lebanon’s bloodiest civil wars and notorious for committing mass murders and participating alongside with IDF (Israeli Despotic Farce) in those. Those guys sound like they can fart and shit out Lamb’s wool, they are so nice. Stop being selective and conflate it makes you look the fool when you utter complete nonsense.

Frank Behrens

ad hominem again. ? ..gets getting tiresome..and most often shows that one is running out of real arguments.
I wouldn`t disagree with things which happens in the past 70/80 in the 20th. cen. you mentioned…but digging in the past should be the task of archaeologists.
I am adressing the current situation/s) (otherwise we end up with roman empire imperialism ..and even back further).
If you have some real (counter-) arguments supported by reasonable sources (links) ..be my guest. Otherwise this drowns here in a kindergarten squabble, like so often.

Terra Cotta Woolpuller

Let’s see you have used ad hominem in you arguments yet you complain when others use them. Your arguments get weak as you quote wikipedia sources which are notoriously being edited by the site operator. The reason you can’t offer anything credible on the argument is that it was missing important information. We all know how our own nations publicly blocked access to Syrians in that election which was very much a flagrant violation of the Geneva convention, putting many at risk to go to Syria under sanctions and Lebanon which is a clear violation by the western nations.

Well the past generally explains much of what is going on today as it was decisions back then that have been affecting all future and present decisions .
That is why it is important to remember that governments are not like people but a continuation of policy.

You using unreliable citations just shows how flimsy your argument actually is and weak your assumptions are based upon. Your drawing a correlation to” (roman imperialism .. and even back further)” is surprising because in our current world that is what we are seeing with US imperialism wonder if back then they used such soft and weak arguments as used today. “Heaven forbid they move their countries near the US Empires outpost” sic.

Really it’s too bad your arguments never truly address the situations and only add to confuse them , you seem a tragic soliloquy in a comedy farce, which is truly sad and descriptive of your inability to understand and comprehend anything.

Frank Behrens

do you know the difference between ad hominem and giving names ?…which does often shows bad manner , but is acceptable to a certain degree if some real arguments are following . Thus ad hominem is the absence of any real argument.
Using wikepedia is weak ? So, what would be a better source to quote from pray tell? You can check the sources wiki is using any time you want…if you think wiki is wrong..well, take it up to wikipedia and discuss that .If you do have good arguments you will convince others (the vast majoirty) …this is in the end a collective work which is the best way (how else would it be better?).

Did I flat out dismissed the importance of the past ? In no way…I just said that one shouldn´t dig (too deep) in it in order to justify things . If you would follow that line, then I ask you why the Phalangists /MKaronites/Christians did what they did? Because they are (were) evil people back from the bone up? Do you think you know why the Israelis behave as they do ?
(I hate/misstrust you because you father beat mine …yes, because your grandfather gave mine names…that´s just because your grand-grandfather once betrayed mine….and so on)..

That my sources are unreliable is just your personal opinion..sorry. If you think they are unreliable, you have to deliver some arguments why (you think) they are unreliable.
Just because you don´t like them, doesn´t make them unreliable.

Boris Kazlov

By whom were they asked to give up weapons? Saudi monarchy through puppet Hariri

Frank Behrens

e,g,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1559

It called upon Lebanon to establish its sovereignty over all of its land
and called upon “foreign forces”, Syria, to withdraw from Lebanon and
to cease intervening in the internal politics of Lebanon.
The resolution also called on all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias to
disband and declared support for a “free and fair electoral process”.

The Lebanese government officially responded to the resolution on the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) website in three ways:[8]

– The withdrawal of the foreign forces from Lebanon;

– Disarming the Lebanese and foreign guerillas; and

– Expanding the government’s authority on all the Lebanese territories.

Hezbollah[9] and the Loyalty to the Resistance bloc[10] denounced a report on the resolution in 2010 as meddling in Lebanese affairs.

Druze leader MP Walid Jumblatt has repeatedly insisted that he objects to the disarmament of Hezbollah, according to the international resolution, describing the party as a “resistance group” and not a militia. He engaged in an electoral alliance with Hezbollah during the 2005 parliamentary election, with one of the titles of the alliance being “The Protection of the Resistance,” but is now calling on Hezbollah to be integrated into the Lebanese Army and hand in its weapons over to the government.[12]

RedBaron9495

The Christians and the Shia (Hezbollah) are pretty much allied in Lebanon
Hezbollah has been training the Lebanese Army….they often co-ordinate together.

Terra Cotta Woolpuller

The reference is to all the hardliners that remain as they have never wanted to reconcile as they are still close to Israel till this day. Thanks any ways for also pointing out today there is movement forward from those times. I would have done that but he would have cried about that as usual and deflect and conflate with useless arguments.

FlorianGeyer

I see you are on duty Troll tonight Frank. Always wittering on about Shias when in reality Sunni’s make up the bulk of the SAA that also has a plethora of other religious and political groups that are all fighting TOGETHER to save Syria from the TRULY sectarian terror groups sponsored by the US Coalition of Terror.

Ironically a sectarian movement has emerged in the USA,’ Libtards V Trumptards.’

That is a fuse that is still burning.

Frank Behrens

The support and sympathy (and especially reasons why) of the bloody dictatorial regime from all kind of far right-winged, facistoide (which includes red lacquered losers from Dunkeldeutschland) with inferiority complexes and their typical stereotypes and conspiracy theories is well known .
Thanks, I am cool.

Joe

Well that’s what you want .
Reality is that Lebanon’s own army is no contest to years of Israeli attacks . Only with Hez in 2000 and 2006 put paid to future Israeli’s murderous attacks saving 20k people per year after that

Yes we know how frustrating it has been to you all these years Israel has been quite impotent vs Hez

Frank Behrens

what I, you or anyone here wants or does not want is of no relevance.
And no one can say for sure if the Lebanon national army would be able to defend Lebanon…cause since decades (that is since the modern day army even exists) there was no full blown war with the IDF…cause there was no reasons (where are the interests of Lebanon or Israel to attack each other? There are none).
The Hezbollah didn`t , and could not, save the lives of the lebanese people, cause Israel can bomb the cities with their far reaching artillery and airforce at will (and which is, what they did)…for every shell fired at Israel, they could fire 10 shells back.
The conflict is believed to have killed between 1,191 and 1,300 Lebanese people,[58][59][60][61] and 165 Israelis.[62] It severely damaged Lebanese civil infrastructure, and displaced approximately one million Lebanese[63] and 300,000–500,000 Israelis.[64][65][66]

Not to mention the economic costs and bill:
The fighting resulted in a huge financial setback for Lebanon, with an official estimate of a fall in growth from +6% to 2% and US$5 Billion (22% of GDP)[336] in direct and indirect costs, while the cost for Israel was estimated at US$3.5 billion.[337] Indirect costs to Israel include a cut in growth by 0.9%.[338] and the cost to tourism was estimated at 0.4% of Israel’s GDP in the following year.[339] According to Imad Salamey in The Government and Politics of Lebanon, the main casualty was the fragile unity between Lebanon’s sectarian and political groups.[340]

Again, there is no conflict between Lebanon or Israel…there is a conflict between Hezbollah and Israel. And thus without an armed Hezbollah, there would be no conflict…otherwise explain to my why Israel should attack the Lebanon?

Joe

You seems not to get it.

Was Isreal killing Lebanese before Hezbollah was formed to kick Isreali occupation of Lebanon Answer THIS.
Was it then the confict was between Hez and Israel only?

Yes it is true Israel used massive firepower to kill lots of Lebanese using air power while the Lebanese have no defence.

But then Hezbollah made sure such power is useless even at 1 to 10 odds with just hand held weaponry vs strongest air Force ,navy etc

So don’t brag about the massive damages on people and infrastructures. Nothing to be proud of.

So your talk about disarming Hezbollah created to defend Lebanon so that you can again defeat the poor Lebanese army using conventional warfare is really lame.

Check it out. Everytime Israel attacked Lebanon on flimsy excuses, upwards 20,000 people were killed until Hez stopped that till today

It’s so silly to even suggest it.

Frank Behrens

I have answered such arguments already…just scroll down.

To make it short for the people of short attention span:

1. Hez. units and equipment to JOIN (understand?) the national army (1+1 = more strength for the Lebanon defence)…
2. there is no reason for Israel to attack the Lebanon (otherwise, explain them) or vice versa.

SG

Have you never heard of the joint US-Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982? The bombing of Beirut made it resemble Aleppo while under the occupation of what was formerly known as Jabhat al-Nusra (which Western MSM frequently referred innocent “moderate rebels”), before its weird name change to Fatah al-Sham, and later on HTS.

Frank Behrens

No, I haven`t heard about the joint the US-Israel invasion of 1982…but I know about the Lebanon War of 1982.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War

began on 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) invaded southern Lebanon, after repeated attacks and counter-attacks between the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) operating in southern Lebanon and the IDF that had caused civilian casualties on both sides of the border.[15][16][17]

the Israeli military, in cooperation with the Maronite allies and the self-proclaimed Free Lebanon State, occupied southern Lebanon, eventually surrounding the PLO and elements of the Syrian Army. Surrounded in West Beirut
and subjected to heavy bombardment, the PLO forces and their allies
negotiated passage from Lebanon with the aid of United States Special Envoy Philip Habib and the protection of international peacekeepers.

So, no US invasion..they were part of the UN troops later on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_in_Lebanon#Operation_DIODON:_Lebanon_1982-1984

C`mon guys, I know you are living in another world, but you are making it waaaay to easy for me ^^

RedBaron9495

Lol Wikipedia is really Jewpedia….text is often altered to the way Jews want the history being read. You register with Wikipedia and try and tell the truth by altering the Jewish fiction…..and see what happens. It gets changed back pretty quickly.
Just like Google, YouTube, Facebook & now Twitter….it’s dominated by the Jews….either via it’s owners or CEOs or influence on those Corporations.

Frank Behrens

yeah, as I already said…I feel your pain. Those ignorants out there just don`t accept that I am far superior and do know all things better and constantly try to correct my wisedom…fools. I blame the ewok people…what, you doubt?
You clearly must be one of them !

RichardD

Since when did Israel, with 100+ UN and other international law resolutions against it, respect Lebanon’s sovereignty, which it violates daily in violation of treaties? The baby rapers are the problem, Hezbollah is the solution. Without Israeli crimes, Hezbollah would be a non issue.

Frank Behrens

Uhm, where does Israel violate on a daily basis the sovereiggnty of lebanon? (and where did they raped babys?)

Larissa Vanderbilt

Israel violates Lebanese sovereignty on a daily basis. It is also the only ME country to have invaded each one of its immediate neighbors, as well as bombed and attacked several other non – direct neighbors. Hezbollah is the legitimate defender of Lebanon, as most Lebanese will agree. The Lebanese army could not have withstood one day of attack by Israel in a 2006 type confrontation . .

RichardD

He’s lying of course, and is probably a Jew from the sounds of it.

Frank Behrens

no, in fact I am an ewok from endor…

RichardD

You’re somebody who doesn’t want to deal with the truth.

Frank Behrens

while of cause you are truth-seeker, right?

RichardD

You’re the Jew pedophile rape cult supporter, not me.

Frank Behrens

look, troglodyte , your childish attemps to provoke aside …why on earth do you think I am an Jew and/or supporter of Jews? .
Well , it is known that the primitivs can organize there world(view) in plain black and white.
But I don`t think you are THAT primitive…just, frustrated, lonely and lacking some love perhaps…people tend to get bitter and spitefull.

RichardD

You lie like a Jew. You’re the two faced truth hater who has a problem with Jew crime and evil being exposed on these boards, not me.

Frank Behrens

Oh, and in exactly which way jews are lying (is there jewish lying and non-jewish lying?)

Frank Behrens

Ouch…another easy one(man, normaly I don`t care much what some funny religions/cults/sects teach…but ok).

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/van_hyning.html

http://www.minuteswithmessiah.com/question/kkk.html

the usual bullshit-fabrications from the racists/facists

next stop: are the

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? (c`mon,the evergreen)

RichardD

“the usual bullshit-fabrications from the racists/facists”

You’re a bald faced liar and head case trying to suppress the exposure of the truth about Jew crime and evil.