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Possible Shift In The Russian Position On Novorussia

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Possible Shift In The Russian Position On Novorussia

Written by The Saker; Originally appeared at his blog

Something interesting is happening in Russia.  The recent murder of Givi is attracting A LOT of attention from the main media outlets, much more than any of the other murders of Novorussian commanders.  Furthermore, a majority of the key people invited to express their opinion generally seem to agree on a number of conclusions:

  1. Poroshenko is pretty much gone and finished.
  2. The Ukronazis have all but officially declared Minsk-2 dead.
  3. The Urkonazis have all but officially declared that they are at war with Russia
  4. The Urkonazis don’t want any negotiated solution
  5. The Urkonazis have now decided that an military attack on Novorussia is the only solution

Interestingly, the actual amount of Ukronazi artillery shelling has actually gone down, very significantly, during the last 48 hours, and yet by all reports the Novorussians remain in a state of pre-war.  If the purpose of the murder of “Givi” was to demoralize the Novorussians then it achieved the exact opposite effect: the Novorussians are seething with anger.

[Sidebar: this time around those who criticized me for writing that the murder of “Motorola” is the symptom of a major Novorussian problem and that such a murder could not have happened without local accomplices are keeping a low profile this time around.  This is not due so much to some sense of guilt for being so blind, but to the fact that in Russia and Novorussia the issue of local accomplices is now openly mentioned.  Good – better late than never.  If a recognition that the Novorussian security and counter-intelligence services are in acute need of FSB help can save even a single live, say the one of Zakharchenio (who is now openly threatened by the Ukronazis as being the “next one”), then such a painful admission is well worth making]

Interestingly, the Novorussians also seem supremely confident.  This is rather surprising considering that the Ukronazi forces vastly outnumber them (from 2:1 up to 4:1 depending on how you count).  In interviews Novorussian commanders and frontline combatants all say that while the Ukronazis did use the past months to reequip and retrain, this will not be enough to make a difference.

Members of the Russian Duma have publicly declared that they are fed up with Kiev and that if the Ukronazis attack the Voentorg and Northern Wind spigot will be fully opened.  At least one source reported that a large number of Cossacks had already crossed the border and were deployed inside the DNR/LNR.

Finally, one more theory being regularly mentioned is that the reason why Trump is not telling the Ukronazis to cool it and step back (assuming that this is why Trump tells them, which remains to be proven) is that he wants to them attack and fail and then blame them for rejecting the Minsk-2 Agreement.  This is an interesting theory.  For one, I am not so sure that the Americans did not tell the Ukies to cool it – after all the shelling has dramatically decreased.  This might also be a case of projecting the logic of the Kiev junta on the Americans.  It is well known that Poroshenko loves to send the Nazis death squads (known as the “Dobrobat” or volunteer battalions) to the front lines to have the Russians kill them instead of having to do it himself.  According to this theory, this is a win-win strategy for Poroshenko: he sends the “Dobrobats” to the frontline – either then win and the credit goes to him or they lose (so far, that is what they have been doing) and he gets his most dangerous political foes killed by the Novorussians.  That makes them into martyrs of the “heavenly hundred”, Glory to the Ukraine, Glory to the heroes, etc. etc. and Poroshenko can mobilize around that.  Maybe.  Seems a plausible theory to me.

What is sure is that the opposition to Poroshenko (Liashko, Tymoshenko, Semenchenko, etc.) has gone completely mental and that they are pushing for an escalation be it by declaring a state of war in the Ukraine or by backing further Ukronazi attacks against Novorussians.  As for the murder of Givi, it was welcomed by the entire Ukrainian political scene which rejoiced at the murder and even organized opinion polls to see whom the people wanted murdered next.  The only exception to this was, believe it or not, Nadezhda Savchenko (yes, yes, the “Ukrainian Joan of Arc” and “hope of the Ukrainian nation”) who accused Poroshenko of trying to unleash a massacre in the Donbass.  The Urkonazis are outraged and the Russians are dumbfounded by Savchenko’s political 180.  As for the Novorussians, they position is hyper-pragmatic: “she is a murder and we despise her, but we will work with her if she wants to work towards peace or even towards exchanges of prisoners”.

Yesterday I was listening to a Ukronazi politicians saying that the Russian media is preparing the Russian people for a Russian intervention in the Donbass.  Well, I would not quite formulate it as he has, but I generally agree with his feeling.  While it is not “the Kremlin” who is directing anybody, the general mood in Russia seems to be one of profound disgust, irritation and frustration with the junta in Kiev.  And while I categorically exclude any large scale overt military intervention in the Donbass, I also see that the theory of a Russian peace-enforcement operation is openly floated in Moscow and often discussed.  This, however, would require one of two things to happen first:

  1. a Ukrainian attack on Russian, as opposed to Novorussian, forces somewhere
  2. a UNSC Resolution authorizing such a peace enforcement operation

With Trump in the White House, there is at least a theoretical possibility that the UNSC might authorize such an operation, especially is that then places upon Russia the burden of re-building Novorussia.  That, in fact, is something which neither Putin, nor most Russian, want.  They are afraid of being tricked into taking Ukrainian territory under Russian control only to find out, as international law clearly mandates, that any occupying force is responsible for the administration of the territory under its control.  The Russians feel that they are not the ones who created this bloody mess and that they therefore ought not to be the ones paying to fix it.  They also know that the comparatively small Russian economy simply cannot shoulder such a financial burden.

There is a distinct possibility that 2017 will see a fundamental and crucial transformation of the war in the Ukraine.  For one thing, whether the final Ukronazi attack every materializes or not, if it does it will be the last “hurray” of a decaying and dying Ukraine.  Whether with or without direct Russian assistance, I predict that the Ukronazis will be comprehensively defeated.  Once the military component is removed, by one way or another, the central question will become “how pays for the mess”, with both the USA and Russia pointing their fingers are Europe in general and at Germany especially.  If the final Urkonazis attack never materializes, then the regime will most probably implode internally at which point all key players will have so step in and agree on plan to rebuilt at least the very basic part of the Ukrainian society.  Europe will have no choice but to accept yet another huge wave of refugees.

As for the Russians, it appears that their position is now as follows: the only option the regime in Kiev is to abide by the Minsk-2 Agreement.  That, of course, would mean a “soft suicide” for the Urkonazi regime.  If not, then a “hard suicide”,  including a possible limited Russian intervention or the recognition of the independence of the DNR/LNR by Moscow becomes a distinct possibility.  Either way, the Russian/Novorussian patience appears to have reached its limit.

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Trustin Judeau

First of all dont call Poroshenko is finished.Reminds me of the people calling Assad days are numbered.Second of all this conflict will be frozen.Moscow wont recognize anything.

Igor Ochocinszk

Oh cmon, we all know that this mini-flareup in UA is just cause illegitimate kiev regime wants some attention from MSM, they don’t care bout people at all

Drinas

“…then places upon Russia the burden of re-building Novorussia. That, in fact, is something which neither Putin, nor most Russian, want. They are afraid of being tricked into taking Ukrainian territory under Russian control only to find out, as international law clearly mandates, that any occupying force is responsible for the administration of the territory under its control. The Russians feel that they are not the ones who created this bloody mess and that they therefore ought not to be the ones paying to fix it. They also know that the comparatively small Russian economy simply cannot shoulder such a financial burden.”

The Russians should FINALLY realize their responsibilities towards their own people. Besides, many outside Russia, particularly in Europe hope and believe in Russia. If Russia cannot help a little enclave of its own brethren at its border, then the “Russian world” itself is a lost cause.

In short dear Russians-man up and do what must be done! Enough with the whining, the “why can’t we be friends/partners?” and the numerous pathetic excuses already! The cost of protecting and (re)building Novorossia should not be estimated in rubles but as a necessity if the Russian World is to survive as a distinct and free civilization. Otherwise, go back to the good old golden years of the 90s..

Trustin Judeau

Exactly.Russians need to choose – give up on them or not.There is no third choice.I understand they have Western complex but this cant continue like this.

888mladen .

The golden opportunity has already gone by. The window of opportunity is closing by days.

Tudor Miron

If there is indeed that many in Europe do hope and believe in Russia than there is hope. Just don’t expect jerky moves. There’s consensus that there’s enough own force in Novorossia to defend itself and if there is not than we will definately help. There’s no chance for Ukrs to win a military compain over there. Many don’t understand… People of Donezk/Lugansk do understand that soldiers of Ukr army are still their yesterdays neighbors. Even more than that – hald (roughly) of them are their brothers who are actually Russians. Thing is that 60% of Ukranians have relatives (family members) in Russia and 40% of Russians have relatives in Ukraine. Simply said Novorossia doesn’t want to kill people that are our brethren. That is why it may look soft and slow but there will be one end – Ukraine (at list till Dnepr) will return home which is Russia.
While very many in Russia do feel that we have responsibility and many do hope that Russia will stand for traditional values, while we do have a leader and he has lots of support we have to remember where Russia was 10-20 years ago. We nearly collapsed – it takes time to rise from ashes. Also there stiill huge 5th column inside of Russia (who do you think was ripping it apart after 1991?
Humanity has three ways:
1) Global concentration camps (chip implanted in every one if you wish :))
2) Humanity stops to exist (that will be not the first civilisation on Earth that didn’t make it)
3) Humanity makes a next step/jump in development.

Global powers (which push for 1) scenario are not interested in 2) scenario and this is good but I would not count on them if we choose 3) scenario :)

Drinas

“Just don’t expect jerky moves”
You said you would protect the people of Donbass, yet you do the absolute minimum for that. That is a disgrace.
You might say that the Ukrainians are your brothers, Zolotoya Ukraina etc.. But, as they say, it takes two to tango. Today Ukraine is full of russian-hating fascists, who kill your own. And you sit idly by talking about imaginary scenarios and dangers.
You claim you want to rebuild your strength? Well, with a defence budget of <50bn$ I don't see that happening. But I guess you don't wish to provoke your western "partners"?
The three "scenarios" you mention are of little or no relevance. History makes cycles, powers rise and fall. There is no "Humanity". There are persons and civilizations forming various groups.
It is Russia's choice whether it will fulfill its historical destiny or sink to obscurity.
Anyway, if you wish for the friends of Russia to help it, make sure that you are willing to help your own-the people of Novorossia.
All the best to you.

Arthur Smith

>Zolotoya Ukraina
This term is from Civil War times, not representative.

>Today Ukraine is full of russian-hating fascists.
Even radical nationalists don’t have majority of people, motivated by actual fascist ideology. Xenophobia doesn’t make one fascist or nazi.

>who kill your own
Being ethnic russian or of russian culture doesn’t make people “your own” for every russian. There were a lot of “russian”, even grotesquely so, nazi collaborators and unaligned rabid dog bands.

>Well, with a defence budget of There is no “Humanity”. There are persons and civilizations forming various groups.
Russians are communal, not individualistic. This allows us to keep and advance our christian identity without degeneration into humanism and further. So there is ONLY “Humanity” that crazy individualists can’t withstand and try to tear apart.

Arthur Smith

Typical short-sightet garbage of russian “orthodox imperialist” freaks. I was raised on such stuff and understand clearly how impotent and incompetent they are. Their ideology is much closer to Islam than Orthodoxy, or sometimes even to paganism.

Oh, and then I finally reached the part when he told about dagestani waiting for the White Tsar -_- Exactly what I’m talking about – people like that are not orthodox christians, they are latent muslims.

Tudor Miron

Thanks for your answer. When I was referring to “Humanity” I mean Human kind. Sorry for my English. I don’t agree that Russia does absolute minimum to protect people of Donetsk/Lugansk. Again – Ukronazi have minimal chance for military victory over Donbass – this is due to weapons/equpment provided together with help in building Novorossia army. Also (this is intangible but very important) due to much higher spirits in Novorossia army than Ukronazi army. But if Ukronazi somehow manage to advance than there will be direct help as it happened before. I can’t say for Putin but I see situation like this: Ukrain is rapidly degrading economically. If they start a large scale offensive on Donbass they will loose and this time Novorossia army would not stop (no Minsk 3 to save ukr’s ass) and it will be the end of Ukr’s NWO puppets that hold the power now. If they don’t than it will take longer but Ukrain of now will still collapse and after going even worse (full radical nazi government) for a period of time it will come back to senses. If Russia invade openly/large scale it will bring more harm than good. That’s how I see it and I may be easily wrong.
All the best :)

aurelius

Putin will never accept peace in Ukraine. He needs to maintain a state of war to keep his options open with the western democracies. A dozen of dead soldiers every now and then do not alter his sleep.

Attrition47

No, he needs to avoid being overstretched by American Caesar.

VGA

Putin already has gotten most of what he wants with the Minsk accords.

It is the ukrainians that do not want to make peace because they will be pressured to make reforms by their western pimps.

Njordheim

Ukraine can resist that much. Porky made a bad deal in Minsk and will have to abide to it. On the other end Russia got all it wanted – defacto federalization and veto in Rada through DPR/LPR which are due to receive broad autonomy, quiet synonymous with independence.

888mladen .

People in Donbas are of a different opinion when it comes to Minsk agreement. It has been too pricey for them. Porky has made a deal he new he wouldn’t have to keep it because there would be no one to enforce it.

888mladen .

How’s about asking colonel Strelkov what he thinks of it and why? Wouldn’t that be a good idea? He put his life on line fighting Porky’s Nazis.

Njordheim

Strelkov’s opinion is relevant how?

Corruption is Cancer that won;t stop growing under Poroshenko. In the business world, it’s worse when it comes to corruption!

“I import flat screens from China,” says an anonymous, “I have two solutions: to pay 30% of taxes, what nobody does, or to contact an import-export company of the sort that exist by the dozen on the web. If I pay $650 per cubic meter of merchandise, I can import anything I want, including weapons or cocaine – nobody ever opens the containers. To skip paying the taxes, the intermediary companies traffic in the customs codes, the best is still to go through Poland or Russia. There is no control.

888mladen .

Strelkov’s opinion is relevant how? I hope truth is still relevant to you. May be I’m wrong.

888mladen .

Making a deal with criminal entity is not a good deal at all.

Njordheim

Is Mladen Croatian name?

888mladen .

It’s Serbian for your information. Anyway I should not have given it to you. It’s risky. Normally I don’t ask others these kind of questions for the same reason.

Njordheim

Something is wrong with your postings. Serbia does not support Ukrainian Junta regime standing against Russia. Serbia also fought against and despises Faschist and UkrNaZZis who are a lot like Ustashas.

Why are your views different?

VeeNarian (Yerevan)

What an absolute load of rubbish. Who needs facts when propaganda will do? So, why exactly did Putin REJECT the DPR and LPR joining RF in May 2014 when they had the referendum to leave Ukraine? He accepted Crimea so why not the Donbass? And why was the MInsk II agreement signed when all Putin wants is to rule Ukraine and then the world?
The sad fact is that NO-ONE wants Ukraine. It is a FAILED state, torched by its own Maidan Banderists, for the sake of visa free travel to a decrepit EU. That hasn’t worked out, has it, Aurelius boy?
Ukraine is now Somalia by the Black Sea: enjoy!!!

Njordheim

Crimea was autonomous region, which was for a very long time part of Russia. People voting to return to Russia was a CLEAN CUT, peaceful process. Part of Donbass, which is in the middle of the war is none comparable situation. Also, LPR/DPR has better use for Russia being a ‘trojan horse’ with a veto in Rada. As the things change down the line, anything can be started out of those “Ukrainian Republics”, once the global geopolitical situation changes.

VeeNarian (Yerevan)

So, is this the story line that Putin does NOT want the Donbass? I thought he had invaded the Donbass, then a land bridge to Crimea, then to Odessa and then to move into the Baltics, Central Europe and then the world?
What is the story line? Invasion of Ukraine and then the world or using the Donbass to destabilise Ukraine?
I thought the NATO prancing and dancing in Poland, the Baltics and the the Russian border was based on the “Russian invasion of Ukraine” hysteria?

Njordheim

In the Volhynya region of western Ukraine, villagers have blocked the attempts by authorities to distribute call-up papers. A news report by 112.ua explained, “On January 24, the residents of the villages of Melniki, Zatishye and Pishcha in Shatsky district of Volhynya region blocked cars of the district administration as they arrived. Inside the vehicles were representatives of the local administration and the military recruitment office, arriving to deliver call-up papers for the military mobilization.

Njordheim

Don’t skip your medications – you sound peaty psychotic today!

In the Volhynya region of western Ukraine, villagers have blocked the attempts by authorities to distribute call-up papers. A news report by 112.ua explained, “On January 24, the residents of the villages of Melniki, Zatishye and Pishcha in Shatsky district of Volhynya region blocked cars of the district administration as they arrived. Inside the vehicles were representatives of the local administration and the military recruitment office, arriving to deliver call-up papers for the military mobilization.

VeeNarian (Yerevan)

Thanks for the report about the blocking action against call-up papers in Western Ukraine, aka Banderaland. As a UK supermarket ad says “every little helps”.
Njordheim, I merely asked what the latest line was on Ukraine!
What is it?
Has Putin invaded Ukraine on his way to Baltics, Poland, Europe, US and then Mars,
OR
Is he just using the Donbass rebellion to divide and destabilise Ukraine?
Which one is the story line???

Njordheim

In which brain-washing leftist media did you read that Putin invaded Donbass? As far as I know Russian have no troops in Ukraine.

What I know is that Ukraine was living in peace under legitimately elected president Yanoukovich before the AngloZionist cabal conspired to train in Poland and Lithuanian most-violent UkrNaZZi thugs known as “Pravy Sector” who are continuation of the original Nazi formation that fought on the side of Hitler. Your Coutry took part in teaching them how to use violence to defeat riot police using spray-painting of their visors and long stick to pock their eyes, in short how to use violence to take power in Kiev.

You know that your bellowed Country has the most unclean hands in the world when it comes to invading others? You know that your Queen and the Government of Tony Blare invaded and ransacked Iraq, which lead to creation of ISIS? You know that Iraq has done no harm to Britain but you steel invade them and murdered many people. Britain is now part of the invading force in Afghanistan. Is you next step Iran, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan or again India and China?

Please also tell me have the world-greatest land thief Britain invaded Falklands on the way to Brazil, Chile, Argentina and South Pole, eh? Seriously, what the tabloids say in the failed Empire that was in war with or have invaded almost every other country on the planet?

I have a job for you, please go and tell the rabid queen to abdicate and give people their land and freedom – to have millions of subjects who pledge allegiance to queen instead to The Country and to still live under system in which you are not able to own the land in 21 Century is SHAME. Yea mate, if you are looking for the worst invaders, tormentors and exploitation- machine, look no further then Square Mile and Westminster. Russians are small time comparing to you.

VeeNarian (Yerevan)

Enough of this jousting! We have the same viewpoint on Ukraine. I agree with you!

Njordheim

Can you see Mount Ararat form your windows?

Tudor Miron

I admire you keeping your cool :) Armenians are often easily provoked for heated exchange. It’s funny to see that you’re both (you and Njordheim) are on the same side but he talks like if you’re not. Let me ask (I’m assuming you’re Armenian) – do you feel/think that it is better for Armenia to be independent or you liked it more when Armenia was a honored part of Russian empire/Soviet Union?

VeeNarian (Yerevan)

Sorry to shatter your illusions! My surname does sound very Armenian, so I adopted this avatar to fool those of limited abilities who would call me all sorts of names like Putinbot. It was a good trap!
Actually, I am a golden bronze British Indian from London.
However, I do wish Armenia well. They have had a difficult history. During WW2 they sacrificed a huge proportion of their people as they joined the Soviet Red Army to defeat the Nazis. And this was after the genocide of WW1. How does one little nation go through all this?
At least they have big and powerful Mother Russia to look after them in a very difficult neighbourhood.

Tudor Miron

Thanks for clarification and it’s OK with my illusions being shattered :) Not the first and suspect that not the last time either.
Sorry for my wrong assumption that you’re from Armenia (your name does sound a bit Armenian but that was Yerevan that made me think so)

Njordheim

“Is he just using the Donbass rebellion to divide and destabilize Ukraine?”
Certainly. Drain them down to the point that people get tired of failed, corrupt Porkyshenko’s goverment which will create atmosphere for counter revolution in which approximately 30,000 Pravy Sector/Svoboda UkrNazzis will be defeated with Russian help – of course.

888mladen .

Neither, too bad. Keep trying. One day you’ll get it.

888mladen .

Did you have some of Victoria’s cookies?

888mladen .

1 spoon of prevention is worthy of 2 spoons of cure.

lecture

wow and you from UK want to teach us what’s happening?! you know what the fact is that UK didn’t get slaped for too long but don’t worry pakistan and such will have it’s turn on you idiots thinking that you are godsend to teach others what to do

Njordheim

“great” Britain – the shortest lasting empire of the world-exploiting thugs!

Tudor Miron

I have to agree that this are valid points.

Tudor Miron

Who are you? Another NWO lover? That a plain fact that it is Ukrs who are trying to occupy a coupl km of grey zone here and there. They admit it officially – calling it improvement of positions.
You are right thought that Putin will never accept that Ukronazi’s capture Donbass and start their bloody game there. Many say that Putin is to slow… I would better say that he’s inevitable :)

Njordheim

There is an easy solution to that “problem” – stop attacking Donbass. Recommend mischievous junta president, Porky the “Killer Pig”, to withdrew his unmotivated army consisting of poor Christian Boys. If he does that “Putin’s Plan” you wrongly describe would fall. The truth is Ukrainian army is unmotivated because it consists of mostly captured christian boys who couldn’t escape the unwanted draft.

888mladen .

“poor Christian Boys” or Vatican crusaders?

Njordheim

What do you mean by “free agents”? When the goverment comes with a draft in their hands you must respond to a call to be drafted. if you don’t you got to jail. So to avoid receiving draft the conscripts hide. Many went to Russia or other formally East Block Countries in order to avoid draft.

888mladen .

So when government asks you to do something of criminal nature you are not free to decide whether to do it or not. Is that what you mean? All people die but only few will be remembered. To be remembered it’s choice.

888mladen .

They could have joined militia in Donbas. Couldn’t they?

Njordheim

What western “democracies”? In the entire British Empire now known as Commonwealth “Queen’s Subjects” aka “commons” aka “people” cannot even own the land – in EU, a none elected Supranational Council is above the elected officials – so what democracy?

ghostmourn

Of course they are confident, they know they will get bailed out by regular Russian forces if things begin to look grim.
Who would not be confident?

John Marks

Only solution is for EU and RF to agree return to pre-1939 borders and scrap the totally artificial creation “Ukraine” altogether.
The Ukronazis can go to Lwow, the rest of the people to Kiev, Odessa, Xarkov, Yekaterinoslav, etc.

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John Marks

You propose a good solution which will not happen.

Ukraine is a repeat of the Palestine Project as a second safe homeland for the people and nation the Neoconservatives love more than any other.

Njordheim

Come post sometime on Euromaidan Press… it’s such a fun stomping Maidanuska trolls in retreat until this propaganda portal closes like UA Today.

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Njordheim
Eurmaiden does not allow my posts as I quote legal and lawful facts which their journalists are unable to challenge.

Njordheim

We been posting successfully last couple of weeks. If the Khazarain Censors block you, use proxy and different name like their trolls are doing well balanced Russian sites.

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Njordheim
Life is too short for wasting time on the Hasbara, and its not my style to use a Proxy or secondary accounts.

Njordheim

Come try, we’ll support you.

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Njordheim
OK, I will retry and see what happens.

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Njordheim
Yes there is open Fascism as well as Neofascism in Ukraine.
As an example:

Borislav Bereza:
Right Sector’s Borislav Bereza, member of the Ukrainian Parliament is a proud and synagogue-going.

http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/187217/borislav-bereza

Igor Kolomoisky:
From Haaretz, about the face of thuggery in Ukraine.

Kolomoisky was photographed proudly wearing a particularly scandalous T-shirt. It combined the emblem of the menorah along with the Ukrainian ultranationalist symbol of a trident, and all in red and black.

Beneath it said “Zhidobandera”

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.620845

NeoLeo

They don’t give a fk about ‘ukraine’ their true goal is to restore polish commonwealth.

Arthur Smith

Lvov is polish territory, and banderites are hated by poles for butchering their settlers. Otherwise there are just no region in Ukraine to serve as a ukronazi ghetto, some western provinces, like Rovno’s oblast, are mutinous and had clashes with Right Sector that arrived to
suppress them.

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Article says:
“…At least one source reported that a large number of Cossacks had already crossed the border and were deployed inside the DNR/LNR….”

Unfortunately Mr Putin is too slow and overly cautious as the opportunity for Russia to enter “Novorossiya”, (Eastern and Southern Ukraine) has passed. The ideal time would have been during the Odessa massacre.

Now though late in the day, the entry of Russian Cossacks into Novorossiya would be the next best solution to save its pro Russian population who live in fear of their lives.

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The legal position on Ukraine is it was created unlawfully, a state created unlawfully, Ukraine cannot be deemed to be a “Nation” nor a “State”.

The map below shows the different territories that were cobbled together to form an unlawfully constituted “Republic”. On the map, the territory in blue is Novorossiya.

http://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/1200xauto/public/1891173_673881332651227_1148925683_n_0.jpg

Ukraine was unlawfully formed into a Soviet Republic by the criminal, unlawful and unelected Lenin – Stalin gang circa 1922.

This criminal gang’s startup was planned and financed by Wall Street Bankers, Jacob Schiff, Warburg group, Rothschild group.

The criminal gang cobbled together disparate territories belonging to other countries and other nations and other cultures to form an artificial state known as the Soviet Socialist Republic of Ukraine.

Solomon Krupacek

There was no ukraine until soviets.

Njordheim

Ukraine is territory not a Country.

Solomon Krupacek

In older maps there were no Ukraine.

Njordheim

Do you know what it means u kraini? ‘U’ means “in”. The very name is a territorial reference pertaining to the border land of the Russian Empire.

Solomon Krupacek

I know the name. But due this definition ukraine is changing territory. Abd therefore ukrainian nation is a joke. Always were calaed Little Russians.

Arthur Smith

Well, ukrainians themself say that they descent from ancient civilization of Ukrs)

Arthur Smith

Not “in”, but “by”, “near”.

Njordheim

Everyone loughs at Ukraine because the Khazarian Mafie appointed Ukrainian Goverment just as they did with Bolshevick Government in Soviet Union.

Njordheim

Not until the Soviets, led by Vatican Shill Stalin.

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Solomon Krupacek

Prior to Russian control of the area now known as Ukraine, the northern part of Ukraine was part of the Polish Lithuanian Empire and the southern part was under the control of the Ottoman Turks and Tatars.

Before the above, in the 10th Century and earlier that area was part of the Khazar Empire.

Solomon Krupacek

bullshit!

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Solomon Krupacek
“…bullshit!…”

You are far too emotional and aggressive in common with the majority of your people.

Northern area of modern day Ukraine:
Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth at its maximum extent, after the Truce of Deulino in 1619, superimposed on a current political map:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth#/media/File:Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth_at_its_maximum_extent.svg

Southern area of modern day Ukraine:
In 1475 the Crimean Khanate became a vassal state of the Ottoman Empire. Review the map c1600.
http://iosminaret.org/vol-8/issue24/crimean_tatars.php

Khazar Empire, cc. 650–965 ADcomment image

Njordheim

Of Course not!!

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Solomon Krupacek

Yes you are correct.

However please bear in mind, it is your people who founded the Soviet Union.

Trotsky – Real Name: Lev Davidovich Bronshtein
Kamenev – Real Name: Lev Borisovich Rozenfeld
Zinoviev – Real Name: Ovsei-Gershon Apfelbaum
Sverdlov – Real Name: Yakov Izraile Sverdlov
Kaganovich – Real Name: Lazar Moisey Kagan
Yagoda – Real Name: Gershe Iyeguda
Etc.

Njordheim

It is not very well known but Stalin the Jesuit, like Hitler, launched a deportation to Siberian death camps, where it is said tens of millions perished. The head of those camps was Catholic Jesuit Cardinal Gregory Agagianian, a former Jesuit classmate with Stalin at Tiflis.

Another strange part of this story is that even though he was a fully ordained priest, Stalin was allowed to marry twice. And there is no record that he was ever defrocked as a priest.

And it should be noted that Hitler also was a practicing Roman Catholic. There seemed to be a strange involvement between both of these evil dictators and the Vatican.

Lord Humongous

Come guys, just be done with it. Advance to Crimea and take Kiev. I’m an American and I believe a stronger Russia better for the world. A counterbalance is always necessary, regardless.

lecture

salute brother, I’m working for company from California owned by russian but labor force is local I love yyou guys. regular people got nothing to do with state politics

lecture

both US and Rus got their imperial interest as a big countries and thats natural thing but we as a people must understand each other

John Brown

Russia can easily afford to rebuild Ukraine if Russia takes

back control of its central bank from the Rothschild’s and creates its own

money out of nothing as Rothschild banks have done for hundreds of years. This

will create demand and growth in the Russian economy. This will be a great

economic and political victory over the Zionist empire. It will also be an

example me of how to beat the Zionists and restore prosperity and show the

vassals how to break free of the Zionist empire and the Zionist dollar.

As Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild said “Give me control of a
nation’s money and I care not who makes it’s laws” —

See Money as Debt

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+money+as+debt+1&view=detail&mid=11A1CBA0ED6793555A0D11A1CBA0ED6793555A0D&FORM=VIRE

and The secret of Oz

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+the+secret+of+oz+&&view=detail&mid=1BF4E7A12A7F695BB9871BF4E7A12A7F695BB987&FORM=VRDGAR

Ukraine today is lead by the same Jews who once led Russia against Ukraine.
The tables have switched.
Ukraine today is unconditionally the bad guy, globalist Zionist bigot. Ukraine is the modern Red Beast that needs to be stopped.
And now Russians are the good guy Nationalist-Christians.
My my how the tables have turned.
http://ihr.org/

The Jew-Marxist-pig-Poroshenko who murdered Givi is the exact equivalent of the Jewish-Marxist-Pigs who murdered the entire Romanov family all in the name of Judaism and global-left wing bigotry.
Any true Russian Christian Patriot already knows this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdrCtIL-nQs

Njordheim

Read Talmudic Verses – it’s all there. Zionist hater for Christians is unfortunately little know in the West, whose civilization bedrock is Christianity. Talmud that recently got Quoted by Joe Biden, is a hateful, supremacist piece of garbage, not worthy to be compared to God’s precious Word, the Bible. The idea that Moses was given some verbal message, susceptible to human error, carried on from generation to generation by biased and sinful Jews, is preposterous and wicked!

888mladen .

Vatican and rich American families have been at the helm using zio freemasonry to do the dirty work for them.

Nigel Maund

The Ukraine is a rogue State under control of the NWO Neocons who with the CIA and George Soros engineered “The Color Revolution” through Victoria Nuland and her Nazi puppet Poroshenko. Quite frankly the DONBASS and its peoples are Russian – End of Story! Time for the Yanks and NATO to do the decent thing and just bugger off and stop warmongering for the International Banking Cabal.

Real Anti-Racist Action

Interesting how you name a bunch of ethnic Jews. “Soros is Jewish, Nuland is Jewish, Poroshenko is Jewish”. Are you starting to see the Bigger picture here?
They run the world, and they are all working together.

Nigel Maund

Agreed! …………All the key communists behind the Russian Revolution
were Jes as well: eg, Lenin (Ulyanov), Trotsky (Lev Bronstein);
Kamenev (Rosenfeld) , Karl Marx, Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon), Grigori Zonoviev
(Radomyslsky), Karl Radek (Sobelsohn) and Maxim Litvinov (Wallach). The Revolution was bankrolled by Rothschild’s and Warburgs using surrogates. Interestingly, Hitler was financed by Rothschild’s “lieutenant” Max Warburg brother of Paul Warburg who was present at Jekyll Island to create the Rothschilds, J P Morgan, Warburg’s and Kuhn Loeb financed Federal Reserve Bank. Hitler was also supported by I G Farben Chemical Combine that manufactured “Zyclon B” (Prussic Acid HCN) use to exterminate the Jews at Concentration Camps. After the war I G Farben was broken up to form Badische Analin unt Soda Fabrik AG (BASF) and Beyer AG controlled by the Rothschilds and other related banks. So your are right. The Rothschilds and Nobels got rid of the Tsar to gain control of the Baku (Caucasus) oil fields – and where are we at now with Mosul and the Syrian oil fields??? ……..the meaning of all this is obvious.

Tudor Miron

Khazars are hard at work.

Njordheim

Nothing new. And they hate Russians because it was Russian Empire that destroyed Khazaria, thus the coupe and installation of Junta president Porkyshenko (originally Wlatzman) and Groysman and prime-minster.

Arthur Smith

>it was Russian Empire that destroyed Khazaria
What Khazaria you are referring to? Russia became an empire only in XVIII century.

Njordheim

“The Khazar Jews came to the court of Prince Vladimir and said: ‘We have heard that Bulgarians (Muslims) and Christians came to teach you their religion… We, however, believe in the one God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.’ Vladimir asked them: ‘What kind of law do you have?’ They answered: ‘We are required to be circumcized, we may not eat pork or hare meat, and we must observe the Sabbath.’ And he asked: ‘Where is your land?’ They answered: ‘In Jerusalem.’ And again he asked: ‘It is really there?’ They answered: ‘God got angry with our fathers and therefore scattered us all over the world and gave our land to the Christians.’ Vladimir asked: ‘How is it that you can teach people Jewish law even while God rejected you and scattered you. If God had loved you and your law, you would not be scattered throughout foreign lands. Or do you wish us Rus’ians to suffer the same fate?'” – The Russian Chronicle, describing a visit of Khazar missionaries to Kiev in the year 986

Arthur Smith

This was before Russia even united as a tsardom. So why did you say Russian Empire destroyed them? Russians crushed them, sure, but weren’t Khazaria actually destroyed by the Golden Horde?

Njordheim

The bottom line is Khazaraian Puppets Porkyshenko and Groysman needs to be removed from power and churches Stalin (Vatican Shill) stole from Russian Orthodox Church needs to be given back to Russian Orthodox Church!

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Arthur Smith

Many people consider the Kievan Rus nation as the Russian Empire.

Njordheim

And that is what it was. UkrNaZZi think however that they are the “sh|t”
and that Russia and Moscow are entity that should be the Part of Ukrainian Empire with center in Kyev, not Moscow… yes its schizophrenic, but what do you expect from UkrNaZZis?

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Njordheim
“… what do you expect from UkrNaZZis?…”

Depending on the circumstances, the below would be a typical challemge to those people.

Modern day Republic of Russia and Belarus are the legal and lawful successors of the Rus Nation.

Ukraine is no longer part of the Rus Nation, the Khazars control modern day Ukraine and have rejected the Rus Nation by proclaiming Ukraine as unique and disassociated it from the Rus Nation.

There is no Kievan Rus, it disappeared and disintegrated in the 12th Century, it was weakened by the collapse of Rus’ trade with Constantinople and loss of trade routes through its territory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus

Njordheim

“What the Talmud Really Says About Jesus!'”
http://davidduke.com/what-the-talmud-really-says-about-jesus/

“What exactly is so scandalous? How about Jesus punished in Hell for eternity by being made to sit in a cauldron of boiling excrement? That image appears in early manuscripts of the Babylonian Talmud, as does a brief account of Jesus’ trial and execution—not by the Romans but by the Jewish high court, the Sanhedrin.”

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Njordheim
Its better to leave out the J word, Z word and the T word, these words are meaningless in the modern era.

It is better for the Neoconservatives and their stooges to loot and plunder Ukraine until their economy completely collapses which may cause the Ukrainian populace to face the reality of what is going on in their country.

Njordheim

They are not really neo-conservatives. They were known earlier as “David’s Liberals” in reference to David Rockefeller. In Ukraine the armed-revolt against the Usurper’s regime is desirable.

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Njordheim
“…”David’s Liberals…”

Time is dynamic, the past is gone, a move into the modern era is needed.

That group has moved on to being either New “Conservatives” or their stooges “New” Liberals, etc,

Modern day, Neoconservatives and NeoLiberals advocate the assertive promotion of “Democracy” and “U.S. national interest” in international affairs including through military means.

The terms Democracy and US can be varied.

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Arthur Smith

The defeat and collapse of the Khazar Empire occurred in 965 AD caused by the Kievan Rus Prince Svyatoslav prior to the formation of the Russian Empire.

The people from the Khazar Empire who had converted to the Judaic faith arrived into Poland approximately 36 years later, c1001 AD.

The Kievan Rus nation disintegrated in the 12th Century following the loss of income due to the collapse of trade routes through its territory.

Tudor Miron

Thanks for your reply but I have to say that Khazarian Kaganat was destroyed very long before Russian Empire times :) That was Sviatoslav (Kniaz) who destroyed that parasitic state and it happened around 965

Njordheim

Their descendants are principle evil in today’s world and by the design of Talmud the greatest haters of Christianity and the Christians. http://davidduke.com/what-the-talmud-really-says-about-jesus/

Tudor Miron

Yes, Khasars are one of the main instruments of so called “Global predictor”

Njordheim

Gen. Flynn wanted to build the cooperation with Russian as together we are stronger in that fight. This is why they eliminated him and DJT wuss out and did not have his back. Sad.

Tudor Miron

I have to admit that I had a bit of hope for Trump (Not supporting NWO agenda) but it seems less and less likely. On the other hand Killary was a known evil enity and very dangerous for entire world.

Njordheim

Somehow, their descendants, Ashkenazim Jews ended up subverting Russian Empire and milking USSR for 75 years and are now doing the same to U.S.

Njordheim

Technically yes but it is important to distinguish that ‘Zionist’ and ‘Jewish’ are not synonymous terms. There protest marches by Jews in NY denouncing Zionists. In light of this, blaming all Jews who are also the victims of the Talmudic Internationalist Zionist Cabal is improper thing to do.

It is not very well known but Stalin, like Hitler, launched a deportation of Jews to Siberian death camps, where it is said tens of millions perished. The head of those camps was Catholic Jesuit Cardinal Gregory Agagianian, a former classmate with Stalin at Tiflis.

Another strange part of this story is that even though he was a fully ordained Jesuit priest, Stalin was allowed to marry twice. And there is no record that he was ever defrocked as a priest.

The history books report that Christianity was banned in Russia under the Communists, but this was not the case with the Jesuits. They not only remained in Russian territory but reportedly helped finance the first and second world wars. But that is another story.

And it should be noted that Hitler also was a practicing Roman Catholic. There seemed to be a strange involvement between both of these evil dictators and the Vatican.

El' kerym

“The history books report that Christianity was banned in Russia under the Communists” – better check the books or sources. Although mostly discouraged, it was NOT BANNED. Actualy, The Red Army – the ones that defeated the Brown Plague aka Nazi regime were BLESSED by Orthodox Christianity, btw.
“where it is said tens of millions perished” – lots of things are said about Stalin, but do try and verify though archives and check the sources that are saying this, you will be quite amazed ;-)

Other than that, your view of the Big Picture is pretty accurete, so there’s hope))

Njordheim

My information is that Stalin was Jesuit trained and nothing but another Vatican shill. he and Hitler destroyed effectively over 40 millions of Vatican opponents – eastern orthodox and protestants.

Njordheim

Nah.. they cannot do that… it is in the genes of the AngloZionist cabal to subvert, invade and exploit others. Look at the Britain and vassal states in Commonwealth, to date people cannot even own the land. Is that the rull by the people for the people? Of course NOT.

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Nigel Maund

You are correct in your assessment:

9 facts that prove the U.S. is behind Ukraine crisis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufj5hqQ__A0

URSULARICHES

How many US soldiers are in Ukraine?

115
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