‘Not Olives But Arrows’. Putin-Bolton Meeting Shows Deep Contradictions Over INF Treaty, Other Issues

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'Not Olives But Arrows'. Putin-Bolton Meeting Shows Deep Contradictions Over INF Treaty, Other Issues

Russian President Vladimir Putin, left, and U.S. National security adviser John Bolton during their meeting in the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia, Tuesday, Oct. 23, 2018. (Alexander Zemlianichenko/Associated Press)

On October 23, U.S. President Donald Trump’s national security adviser John Bolton met with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow. While the sides underlined the impotance of the dialogue and even announced a meeting between Putin and Trump in Paris on November 11, the meeting and the following press conference of Bolton showed that Russia and the US have deep contradictions on a wide range of issues.

“As I recall, there is a bald eagle pictured on the US coat of arms: it holds 13 arrows in one talon and an olive branch in the other as a symbol of peaceful policy: a branch with 13 olives. My question: has your eagle already eaten all the olives leaving only the arrows?“, Putin told Bolton during the meeting.

Bolton answered that he “didn’t bring any olives.”

During the meeting, Putin and Bolton discussed a wide range of topics, including tha anti-Russian sanctions and issues of the strategic stability, particularly the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty and the New START Treaty.

“We know and we talk much about the US unilateral withdrawal from the anti-ballistic missile treaty and recently we have heard about the US intention to quit the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty,” Putin said. “We know about the doubts in the [US] administration about the need to extend the New START Treaty and we hear about the intention to deploy some elements of the missile shield in outer space.”

Nonetheless, following the meeting Bolton held a press briefing to underline the stance of the Trump adminsitration on the topics discussed. He noted that Washington is determined to withdraw from the INF Treaty and announced that there is a “new strategic reality”.

Bolton described the INF treaty as a “bilateral treaty in a multipolar ballistic missile world,” that does not apply to countries like China, Iran or North Korea.” This argument had already been used by the Trump adminsitration. Nonethelss, it remains unclear how the Russia-US arms control treaty should be linked to China, Iran and North Korea which are located far away from the US mainland. 500-5,000km missiles limited by the treaty deployed in these countries cannot threat Washington.

The national security adviser also recalled US accusations against Russia alleging that Moscow violates the INF Treaty.

He also recalled how he was scheduled to fly to Moscow on September 11, 2001, to give notice that the US was withdrawing from the anti-ballistic missile (ABM) treaty. Bolton joked that at that time all the media would call it “the cornerstone of international strategic stability.” There was no collapse of international stability, he continued.

“It was not true then, and it will not be true now, with this [INF] treaty,” Bolton said.

The crisis in the relations between Moscow and Washington is developing.

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  • Spit

    Lets be Open and Honest here.
    The Middle east game that Israel is playing is now out in the Open, The Turks with Erdegon at the Wheel the Brits/French clearly rothchild Russia trying to survive and the true leaders toying with the idea of giving the people a new dimention to create and build under the Guise of Nationalism.

    What all of this means is, No Matter what haptens from this point on, the powers that be Will take us all for a Wild ride for the forseable future and there is an almost guaranteed insurance that Nuclear war has left the table.

    The French and the British are now on the table, they are dangerous and must be contained. I believe Trump has acted on intelligence directly from france regarding pulling out of the mid range missile treaties. America and Russia has nothing to gain, France and Britain seek to capitalize on Chaos.

    On a Final Note, Asyria, is one of the Founding Cultures directly responsible in the Shaping of Today’s Society, This is a Key piece of history, Culture must be protected.

    • John Whitehot

      when someone starts posts with “let’s be honest” and similar, i never read the rest and automatically consider it propaganda and manipulations.

      besides, if you have to explicit your honesty, you are in fact expliciting that you are not normally honest. Which then invalidates the initial statement.

      • Tommy Jensen

        We all have to look ourself in the mirror and admit, if Syria´s ancient history has shaped todays Zio society they deserve to be erased.
        The danger is not Western leaders but the sheeple! Those of the sheeple who refuse to gather and look themself in the mirror and be honest, will create WWIII.

  • Hrky75

    INF treaty main goal was to defuse Cold war in Europe and EU countries – Germany in particular – benefited most from it. Reneging it puts Europe in the cross hair of ALL future Russian IRBMs and LACMs. If EU countries are Ok with that – i.e. with the fact that most of them will be reduced into a heap of smoldering radioactive ash within first 24h of WW3 – then they may just deserve to be inhabited by cockroaches for next 10K years. Alternative is getting their head out of their collective anuses and putting European interests first – well ahead of US and Israeli ones. And BTW the whole shit-show is just another Art of the deal scam – blackmailing Russia into pressuring Iran, N Korea and China into giving up their missile technology that currently very effectively prevents US and their Zio bosses from invading. Only Russia today fields some of the most advanced missile systems that can be easily and cheaply upgraded into modern IR missiles. US on the other hand has Tomahawks – missiles the even Syrian AD can successfully intercept in 7 out of 10 tries. And i bet newly developed stuff will be as efficient as – F-35s and as weather resistant as F-22s. I say – bring it on Walrus face…

    • BMWA1

      Well, this may push W Europe towards RU, and help safeguard projects like NS2 on the one hand. On the other, is USA is not treaty-worthy as to deed, perhaps this is for the best as it sets out the realities.

    • Brother Ma

      Walrus-face.ahaha

  • RichardD

    Jew pedophile mass rape cult criminal organization practitioners should have their security clearances revoked and be banned from employment by the US government and participation in the political process as part of the much needed dejudification of America. This would go a long way towards ending America’s fascist foreign policy of perpetual fabricated wars and criminal regime change machinations.

    Jews and Judaism are the root cause of much of the evil on this planet.

  • John Whitehot

    “Bolton answered that he “didn’t bring any olives.””

    i wonder if he was actually guessing if Putin asked him if he had brought olives.

    • FlorianGeyer

      Bolton said :- “that does not apply to countries like China, Iran or North Korea.”
      He forgot to mention Israel , sham on him :)

      Bolton thinks he and Trump can bully and cajole Russia as Iraq was bullied.
      Bolton and Trump are now attempting to ‘up the stakes’ and blackmail Russia.
      Bolton and Trump will fail as Russia has the ability and the courage to destroy the USA and Israel as well.

      • John Whitehot

        “Bolton thinks he and Trump can bully and cajole Russia as Iraq was bullied”

        If that’s really the case Bolton has more serious issues to take care of than threatening this and that.

      • gustavo

        Nop, he did not forgot, that is the point.

  • Snowglobe

    ” …and even announced a meeting between Putin and Trump in Paris on November 11.”

    This is five days after the election. If Trump has succeeded in the election he will be in a position to consolidate his power, and finally put the war-mongering Neo-Con’s in their place.

    It is possible that this second meeting between Trump and Putin will be productive for both countries. A deescalation would be in order. Perhaps it will finally be time for solutions.

    • grumpy_carpenter

      Trumps not going to put anyone in their place. Trump is an opportunist and a con artist …. he told the American people what they wanted to hear during the election. Now that he’s elected he’s willing to get into bed with anyone who keeps him in power and allows him and his buddies to feather their nests.

      • RichardD

        You’re ignoring the unprecedented buzz saw of opposition that he ran into and the parts of America first that he did and is implementing.

      • Spit

        Demoralized.
        “Trumps not going to put anyone”
        Trump. Not. ((Going)) (to) (((Put))).
        Anyone (((How do You do)))

      • Snowglobe

        Time will tell, and I don’t think it will be much longer before it is clear. If I am wrong, I will admit it. Will you?

        • Blaine

          Can’t speak for grumpy_c but I for one would be relieved to admit I was wrong – once I’m proven wrong. Let’s not forget Trump appointed Bolton in the first place.

          • Snowglobe

            The appointment of Bolton is only one of the things that makes me cringe. The moving of the embassy to Jerusalem and the two bombings that he called for in Syria were others.

            I hope for the best even so.

        • grumpy_carpenter

          Absolutely. However you just have to look at Trumps business record to see he’s crooked as hell.

          He has declared 6 of his casino corporations bankrupt over the years. Casinos are rigged to make money ….. you can’t lose. Bankruptcy fraud in the construction industry is a way to screw suppliers and subcontractors out of their money. I was a commercial sub contractor …. I’ve been through bankruptcies, I know guys who’ve been in on the scams. You don’t go broke building casinos when your dad is a seasoned, well connected NY developer and you certainly don’t go legitimately broke 6 times doing the same type of development and come out of it creditworthy and rich as hell.

          IMHO he’s been manipulating the markets with his tweets and and “trade war” …… which makes no sense whatsoever. I believe his buddies at Mar-a-largo are making money off the stock market right now but the big play is yet to come.

          I believe he intends to short the USA. Think about it …. The USA’s position as the worlds banker makes it just like a casino …. it’s a game rigged to make money no matter what. Imagine how much money you could make if you knew the USA was going to lose it’s reserve currency status and slide into depression. The rich can protect themselves if they know it’s coming and make a sh!tload on the short ….. regular taxpayers can’t ….. they are the ones on the hook for the US national debt and all those $USD the fed has been printing.

          • Snowglobe

            The good thing is that we will not have long to wait. The good, the bad and the ugly should be on display before long.

            “The USA’s position as the worlds banker makes it just like a casino …. it’s a game rigged to make money no matter what.”

            The question that will be answered before long will be,… with what Trump knows about the demented system, what is he going to do with it?

            Will he use it for personal gain and to benefit himself and his cronies?…or the country?

            I hope that you are wrong. Cheers! :-)

      • Zionism = EVIL

        Trump besides being a malignant narcissistic moron is a draft dodging coward. The US Zio-con losers think that they can destroy Russia and take over its resources. They are in for a shock.

    • You can call me Al

      Good point.

    • RichardD

      With veto proof majorities in both houses for a lot of their neocon agenda. Trump is a long way from being able to rein in the Jew world order hegemony agenda that is diametrically opposed to much of the America first platform that he won the election on.

      Winning the midterms will put him in a stronger position. But what really needs to be done is legislation and law enforcement action against Jews and Judaism. The place to start is with prosecuting and outlawing oral suction circumcision and banning books like the Talmud as teaching materials and organizations like Judaism that practice it by classifying Judaism as a criminal organization. And closing and demolishing their facilities like synagogues and yeshivas to bring about an end of American Jews so that they go extinct.

      • Snowglobe

        We agree.

        I think that sufficient amounts of Treason charges might help to begin the culling.

        • RichardD

          That could apply to the legislative judicial oversight committee members who bury 911 investigations every year in the face of overwhelming prima facial evidence of the perpetrator’s guilt. Whatever skeletons are in Trump’s closet, that isn’t one of them. So maybe that’s an option that he could pursue as part of the house cleaning process.

      • Justin

        The only JEW enemy he has left is the MSM! They are starting to back off! After theMidterms, its all over baby! (so long as the repubs keep the house and the senate)!
        any kind of global false flags are a sign of deep state /globalist weakness! Means they are losing and are desperate!
        Russia on board with Trump! Russia will become an ally of the USA in a year (depending if repubs keep the house and senate)! Big oil to invest in Russia! Russian needs US extraction tech and US needs to keep trading in US dollars! Deals gonna be made! Bolton (attack dog) in russia now. Nobody complaining about that because bolton is seen as war monger! When in actual fact, he is there to communicate peace and send a message from Trump!
        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/323275fb73d7b1c7f91c3d616a2402f325da8ea11fc525dc5a7f3cc5da12cc72.jpg

    • John

      I hope so.

      • Snowglobe

        Me too! :-)

    • Spit

      ” If Trump has succeeded in the election he will be in a position to consolidate his power”
      His power is a Massive army of Patriots.
      Trump can, with a wave of a hand have 20-85 million Patriots ready to go within 12 hours. Support Trump. Let Americans have what we want. The Americans Who Support the Movement without a Name are Just people who Want to build a better Life.

      • Snowglobe

        Hooyah! :-)

    • Trump is very comfortable and happy with his NEOCON – DEEP STATE administration.
      You are completely deluded. TRUMP betrayed his voters and makes totally opposite politics compared to his promises.
      For example – he wanted better relations with Russia. Actual relations are the worst in the whole history.
      – he wanted stop endless wars abroad. He escalated existing wars in Ukraine, Syria, Yemen and started new economy, proxy, hot wars with Iran, China, Palestine, Mexico, Canada, EU, Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and probably will start nuclear WW3
      – he wanted fair deals. As a result he scrapped nearly all deals and make the USA absolutely non trustworthy partner so any deal with the USA are unthinkable at the moment
      – he wanted boost economy but he only achieved deficit grow and military spending increase.

      Conclusion: TRUMP is an IDIOT with ZERO success with his original promises and 100% success to boost neocon doctrine. In fact he his more warmongering asshole then Obama and on pair with Hillary Clinton.

      ONLY IDIOTS BELIEVE THAT TRUMP CAN ACHIEVE SOMETHING GOOD AGAINST DEEP STATE AGENDA. THEY ALREADY OWN HIM AND IT DIDN’T NEED MUCH EFFORT BECAUSE TRUMP IS SUCH ASSHOLE.

      • Snowglobe

        As you say, there is a delusional idiot in this conversation. You are correct. It is you or me. Time will tell which one of us that it is.

        Cheers

    • Sinbad2

      Trump says what people want to hear, it’s just acting.

      • Snowglobe

        He did have a successful reality TV show for years. He is qualified for the acting part. :-)

    • Brother Ma

      Nah. Neocons and Israel-Firsters will leech onto him as they have this time around.
      The American president able to stand up to these miscreants has not had his balls drop yet.

      • Snowglobe

        JFK stood against them, and they killed him.

        If he is a typical soy-boy push over to the Neo-Cons and the Christian Zionists, I cannot not understand why he has been hit with such a tidal wave of opposition and obstructionism. I would have been expecting them to sprinkle rose petals in front of him like they did to Obama and others. Instead they were putting glass in his food.

        They went hard core against him from day one. Did you see even one day of the typical “honeymoon period” with this President?

        Still, I know that I could be wrong. Time will tell. :-)

    • Tommy Jensen

      US is not making escalations during 17 years to just make deescalations on a silly meeting on 11 November.
      Finding excuses for continue to hoping, denying reality………………………………….LOL.

  • S Melanson

    Bolton tells Putin he does not bring peace, only war. This is all getting to surreal like the Khashoggi affair. So when does the alien invasion by socialist vampires start?

    • Snowglobe

      Right after the swamp gas zombies chorus. ;-)

  • ColinNZ

    You cannot productively discuss agreements with a non-agreement capable hegemon.

    • John Whitehot

      wanna-be hegemon.

      • S Melanson

        Not quite, the US is still in the anger phase. The US was a hegemon but not anymore, they just have not accepted this fact. Bolton will be a major obstacle for US acceptance and moving on to the grief stage – which I think is finally happening with Netanyahoo realizing that Israel is no longer the regional hegemon as decreed by royal US dispensation.

        Bolton’s face looks like someone who needs his diapers changed.

        • Brother Ma

          I agree. The US has had its ass handed to it.In the big picture it has not been able to unseat a person it wanted and Russia actually fought back this time.

          Pity it could not do that for Yugoslavia. Curse that tosser Yeltsin!

  • John

    Eh, Mr. Bolton is a smug individual who is going to run headlong into the trouble, that he creates for others. It will be quite a collision. I wish well to all.

  • John

    hmmmmmm, ……. a second comment on the thought which I do not usually do but, here it is.

    President Putin looks fairly relaxed in the picture, posted in the article. His facial color is normal. Mr. Bolton’s face is flush red, is sucking in his mouth and the lips are stone cold locked down. My two cents is that Mr. Bolton got an unvarnished dose of Vladimir Putin and he had his behind handed to him on a paper platter. Hence the uncreative and restrained ‘all is normal’ responses to the press afterward. My money says he was seriously owned and Mr. Trump needs that meeting before it is too late.

    Somebody with a very big mouth just found out how far from reality they are actually located. My take folks. Good rest to all.

    • Ivan Freely

      I hope Bolton and his ilk gets what is coming to them. Hopefully the innocent isn’t stuck with the butcher’s bill.

      • John

        I think there is a lot hitting them now. Judging by how little noise is coming from the US coalition in Syria and the Israelis, I take it that reality it knocking them over the head everyday now. I think one of the things Mr. Bolton was informed, is that the S-300 systems will be staying. I think he tried to pressure President Putin in person, an opportunity he has longed for, about backing down on support for Iran. I perceive that one was also lit on fire and deposited in the circular file, in front of his face. It was not a good day for the NeoCons. A great evening to you Ivan.

    • John Whitehot

      although it’s rare to see Bolton with any different facial expressions

      • John

        lol, nice one. Yeah, I have seen other pictures of him and he is snow white generally.

  • Tommy Jensen

    Actually it was true then. Dumb Washington sees everything opposite.
    The International stability collapsed efter ABM withdrawing in 2001……………………………….idiot.

  • John Mason

    INF Treaty mainly benefits the EU since they primarily fall within the 500-5500km zone, cancel the INF then those US/NATO missiles already deployed in Europe becomes legal and the EU will be at a far greater risk facing annihilation if NATO attacks Russia.
    The INF Treaty is important because it has the potential to stop a war between Europe and Russia.

    • pepa65

      The US is playing for another war in Europe, a limited nuclear exchange perhaps??

      • John Mason

        Appears to be the case. US doesn’t want to destroy its’ own territory and if I was Putin I would be letting the US know that in the event of a war staged in Europe then the US would be destroyed before the EU.

        • hope springs eternal.

          Agree. It’s time Putin spoke of the US Mainland being Target One. The clowns in DC need to get this message loud and clear.

          • John Mason

            The US citizens deserve to know their fate if their elite start a war. If they ignore it then so be it but if they protest then there is hope.

          • Ronald

            There are millions of Americans protesting US war policy on going.
            Ever since the Vietnamese War, cannabis and long hair became a symbols of the peace movement. Millions took to the streets trying to stop the Iraq invasion.
            Like Trump who got voted in on his promise to pull out of Syria, but has not, almost all US politicians say one thing but do the other.
            “The Elite” are not ‘Americans’, they just use it, as just another base of operations among many.

        • Sinbad2

          Agreed, for every medium range missile the US puts in Europe, Russia should deploy 2 ICBM’s.
          And to get the message across to the American people, they should be named after the American city they are going to destroy.
          You have to talk directly to the American people, not American politicians.

      • Sinbad2

        The EU is an economic threat to the US, a war between Russia and Europe would make America very happy.

      • Tommy Jensen

        Brussel, London and Paris bombed like Dresden.

        What………………….??? You are from Polen……..??? …not forget Warzawa???
        All right. Brussel, London, Paris, and Warzawa so it can be rebuild for the 4th time.

    • Brother Ma

      Which is why Trumpster ditched the INF treaty. Fcuck the Euro allies. We will be fine and that is all that matters.

      • John Mason

        Without the EU the US is nothing.

        • Brother Ma

          I agree. I was being sarcastic but obviously did not get that properly across.

          • John Mason

            I got the sarcasm hence the agreement.

          • Brother Ma

            Ok friend😂✋

  • RichardD

    Would Trump sell Israel, the Jews and their collaborators down the river for a better future for America and humanity? And if he does, will US security services be able to prevent them from killing him? I sure hope so.

    • Brother Ma

      No he wont as everyone dear to him is Jewish;his daughter,ex- wife,current wife and he himself are part Jewish.

      • RichardD

        Do you have any links on his wives Jewishness? His son just divorced his Jewish wife.

        • Brother Ma

          Not off the top of my head but i believe Melania’s father’s austrian father was Jewish and ivana (first wife)also had a Jewish father.
          Trump’s paternal grandfather was jewish .his mum was jewish. All off memory. It is on the internet if you search enough. I saw family trees of trumps somewhere.
          Churchill’s mother was Jewish (american JennyJerome) and Rooseveldts were convert or crypto- jews.

          Even Abraham Lincoln was apparently partJewish through the Dutch Hanks family on his mum’s side.
          Davy crockett was also Sephardi Jewish as was Elvis Presley and Johnny Cash if you go back far enough.

          I am talking blood not practising religion or even associating with that nationality. Just on heritage.

          • RichardD

            I think that you’re mistaken about Trump and his wives from what I’ve seen on the internet. If you do a search I think that you’l find that neither his grandfather nor his wives fathers were Jews.

          • Brother Ma

            Thanls Richard. I did see it but we can leave it for now. When i fond it again i will show you.

          • RichardD

            I’d say that Trump’s primary hereditary faith is German Christian, not Jewish. Three generations of his immediate family are buried in a German American cemetery:

            http://www.llnyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/40736522_131880699391.jpg
            “While we were busy touring where the Trump’s lived in this life, Esquire was instead taking a tour of where they live in the afterlife: The Lutheran All Faiths Cemetery.

            The Queens cemetery is the final resting spot of Donald’s grandparents (Fred and Elizabeth), his parents (Fred Sr. and Mary), and his eldest brother, Fred Jr.”

            – Spirit of Trump family haunts this Queens cemetery –

            https://therealdeal.com/2016/10/11/spirit-of-trump-family-haunts-this-queens-cemetery/

            “Lutheranism is a major branch of Protestant Christianity which identifies with the theology of Martin Luther (1483–1546), a German friar, ecclesiastical reformer and theologian.

            Luther’s efforts to reform the theology and practice of the Catholic Church launched the Protestant Reformation in the German-speaking territories of the Holy Roman Empire.”

            – Lutheranism –

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheranism

          • Brother Ma

            Burial is a good signal but not foolproof. I know for a fact many Christians that were buried as Muslims and some Moslems that were secretly buried as Christians. Crypto- Jews were also buried as Christians pre -Reconquista.

            Evangelical Christians or Christian Zionists are buried as Christians yet are more dangerous than Zionist Jews.

            Rubio or cruz were born Catholic but are now Protestant .Does that mean they were never of Spanish heritage? Long- faced US senator and Secretary of State was of jewish heritage even though his forebears then converted to Mormonism.
            Madeleine Albright was of Jewish Heritage as was General Wesley Clark,both of whom mysteriously let it be known only after their careers were safe.Funny that.

          • RichardD

            Anything’s possible. It just depends on what standard of probability and acceptance that you want to use. None of Trump’s wives or recent ancestors would be considered Jews by offical Jewery using the evidence that I’ve seen. As far as I know at least one parent, or possibly in some cases one grandparent needs to have been a ritual Jew to qualify. An inoperable internet link or Jewish sounding name doesn’t meet the criteria.

            There are a lot of people accused of being Jews or crypto Jews that clearly aren’t. But the accusers latch onto some questionable rational to base their conjecture on. A gravestone is judicial quality evidence. A broken link or Jewish sounding name is evidence that would proably be inadmissible in a legal case.

          • Brother Ma

            Israel has accepted people who are not Halachic Jews a few times and does make many exceptions. The Falashas of Ethiopia were not Halachically Jewish yet the Authorities in Israel accepted them as Jews as the Falashas alway consdered themselves Jews.

            Anyway, i am sorry re the broken link. It worked for me and i will try and find others. Judicial evidence is nothing special. I can drive trucks through judicial evidence. They rely a lot on circumstantial evidence and hearsay and can also not admit crucial evidence when a skilled lawyer is involved . I have lived that.

            I happen to know of many Christians who were buried as Moslems so burial is not necessarily a gold standard. It is a signal,it is evidence but it is not gold standard proof.

            In the 1850s onwards ,the Ottoman empire was in a reformist phase and it offerred an amnesty to secret -Christians. The number of Christians that came out was shocking which was why the latter Sultans then clamped down and started massacring them again. These people acted and were buried like Muslims for hundreds of years till then. Only two or three years ago,a secret Christian family in Turkey came out and returned to Christianity . They were on a very strict Muslim area and it was so shocking it was newsworthy. Tge only reason they were not murdered was that they were in the newspaper and everyone’s eyes are on Turkey at present.

            Princess Katherine of the UK is also Jewish in blood. Her mother’s grandmother was Jewish.

          • RichardD

            The Jews don’t agree that Kate Middleton or her ancestors are or were Jews:

            – Middleton, Shmiddleton. Britain’s new royal heir is not a Jew –

            https://www.timesofisrael.com/middleton-shmiddleton-britains-new-royal-heir-is-not-a-jew/

            The Government of Israel doesn’t agree that Ethiopian Jews aren’t Halachically Jewish:

            “After Halakhic and constitutional discussions, Israeli officials decided in 1977, that the Israeli Law of Return applied to the Beta Israel.”

            – Beta Israel –

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel

            Cryptos and people buried in a different cemetery are tiny minorities who don’t disprove the 99+% who aren’t. Trump and Ivana were married by an ordained Methodist minister. From a church that Trump and his family attended since his youth.

            The religious definition of a Jew includes the following: a legitimate convert, which Trump and his wives aren’t. Being a member of a Jewish congregation, which Trump and his wives aren’t. Being buried in a Jewish cemetery. Or having one of your parents who meet this criteria. The secular definition for Israel’s law of return, and they’re desperate, is the same except having 1 or more grandparents also qualifies. And if you want to get married in a synagogue in a Jewish ritual, you have to meet the religious, not the secular qualifications.

            If you have a screen shot showing that Melania Trump meets any of this criteria, feel free to post it. Jewish sounding names, as the Times of Israel article points out, don’t count.

            Your disputing judicially approved evidence, doesn’t mean that a judge and jury will agree with you. There are grades of judicial quality evidence admissible in a trial or other legal proceedings. Gravestones are prima facia evidence, unless disproven. As are birth, death, marriage, divorce and similar records. Cryptos are inadmissible or circumstantial at best.

          • Brother Ma

            I actually agree with much of what you say.

            I go back to my original point. I am talking about jewish blood not who or is not halachically Jewish. The Falashas were not considered Jewish by Rabbinical Jews as they descend rom Cohens ,Jewish male priest caste and not Jewish mothers so the Israeli authorities had to change their thoughts which is exactly what i said.
            There is wide body of evidence that says that currwnt Jews so not have anu pyahebrew blood in themat all but are simply converts ,Khazar or otherwise .That is akin to the Blacks of The UK being the only remaining English in a apocalyptic era once all the native white English die out.

          • Brother Ma

            Furthermore i will never listen to what the Rabbinic authorities now say about Princess Kate. There will no doubt be revisionism at work and an accommodation between the Royal Family and Israel.
            I only go on information published well before her marriage to Prince William.

            Remember ,Prince Charles is half Greek if we go on the face of it. Yet ,he is danish and german etc in blood on his father’s side.

            Aslenazi Jews may be “jewish”by conversion of their ancestors yet many have little if any real” jewish” blood in them.

          • RichardD

            The male female thing is an orthodox vs reformed thing. The government of Israel is siding with the reformed on that issue. AshkeNAZI vs Semitic is a similar issue. The Palestinians are Semites, most Jews are Euro AshkeNAZIs.

            Your point was Jews are to important to Trump to move against because he and his wives are Jews. They’re certainly not Semite Jews, and don’t meet any definition of Jewish blood according to Jews or most people. You haven’t defined what your definition is. I’ve defined the generally accepted definition in a lot of detail. And Trump and his wives don’t meet it.

            I don’t think they’re Jews and I don’t think using your extreme definition of possibly having a Jewish ancestor or ancestors numerous generations ago is a determining factor for Trump. In fact he’s said plenty against them.

          • Brother Ma

            Fine Richard. I was simply stating that i have seen info saying they have Jewish blood.No more no less.

            As for Trump not caring for Jews. Who cares? What matters is that his policies tie into what Israel Firster’s prefer.

          • RichardD

            You’re not alone in the whole crypto Jew thing and calling people Jews who aren’t based on criteria that Jews and governments reject. Even with the Israeli government’s liberal definition of who is a Jew, if people using the criteria that you and many others use tried to obtain Israeli citizenship via their right of return law, they’d be rejected for citizenship. The various mainstream branches of Judaism all use criteria that’s more stringent than the Israeli government.

            When people say that Lenin was a Jew because one of his grandparents was, assuming that they actually were, according to the Israeli government definition, they’d be correct. Once in Israel, those that meet the government definition but don’t meet one of the sectarian definitions. They have the option of obtaining a waiver from one of the sects, and receiving recognition and congregation admission that way, or going through the conversion process to strengthen their claim, or simply living out their lives and being buried in a cemetery there to strengthen their recognition by others of their Judaism.

            Trump tried to work with the Palestinians at the beginning of his administration, and the Israel firsters came after him like a pack of wolves, so he threw the Palestinians under the bus and swung in favor of the Jews, at least temporarily, to save his presidency. Once the midterms are over, assuming that the Republicans prevail, his presidency will be in a stronger position to withstand assault by the Jews.

            The Palestinians have a case at the ICJ to annul the Jerusalem embassy move. If they win it, the whole embassy fiasco will weaken not strengthen the Israel firsters.

        • Justin

          Donald’s first wife, Ivana Trump was a Ukrainian Jew! Thus Trumps only Daughter to Ivana is a Jew! U can only be a Jew if ur mother was a Jew! Thus Ivanka Trump who is the daughter of Ivana Trump is a Jew! She married a Jew too! Jared Kushner! Trump’s first 3 children are Jews born of a Jewish mother! He as another 2 children who are not Jews!

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4c7ab76845584e7551cf11e2ac45de23a541b7bac41631caee685d4639c73754.jpg

        • Brother Ma
          • RichardD

            My guess is that she’s a baptized Christian from birth who probably received some formal religious education in Christianity in her youth. There are a LOT of people with Jewish names who rejected Judaism for obvious reasons, married Christians, and raised their children as Christians. That’s why there are 14 million Jews and half of the planet is Christian. A blog post with no link to support their assertion isn’t conclusive proof that someone has a Jewish grand parent.

            Ivana Trump isn’t Jewish, the blog post confuses Ivana with her daughter who is a convert. Trump has a strong Jew nexus because he’s from NY which is Jew central in the US. And he’s involved commercially with them. They’re only 10% of the population. But they occupy a vastly disproportionate part of the commercial hierarchy and Trump couldn’t have done what he did without Jew involvement in his commercial activities.

    • Justin

      Trump is gonna fuck the Jews! “Keep ur friends close and but ur enemies even closer”!
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9afc5faed5fa89a5e46b618f856f471d409d72e6239cef89b9bb426b1cdfbd99.jpg

  • Sinbad2

    I feel sorry for Mr Putin, having to meet and be civil to that disgusting creature.