Israel Is Hiding That Its State-Of-Art F-35 Warplane Was Hit By Syrian S-200 Missile – Reports

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Israel Is Hiding That Its State-Of-Art F-35 Warplane Was Hit By Syrian S-200 Missile - Reports

Illustrative image: Israeli Air Force F-35 warplanes

It looks that the Israeli “demonstration of power” during the recent visit of Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu has turned into a total failure.

On October 16, Shoigu arrived Israel for meetings with Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The sides were reportedly set to discuss the situation in the region, including Syria, the fight against terrorism as well as military and technical cooperation.

At the same day, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) claimed that its warplanes targeted an anti-aircraft battery of the Syrian Air Defense Forces that had launched a missile at Israeli aircraft flying over Lebanon.

The IDF added that the Syrian missile didn’t hit any Israeli aircraft.

“The army targeted the battery with four bombs and, according to the IDF, the battery was damaged to the extent it was no longer operational. The army said the battery targeted was the same that fired at Israeli jets last March, prompting Israel make use of its Arrow anti-missile system for the first time,” the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on the issue.

The Syrian military confirmed the Israeli strikes and said that they caused “material damage.”

It’s interesting to note that, according to the Syrian Defense Ministry statement, Israeli warplanes violated Syria’s airspace on the border with Lebanon in Baalbek area. The incident took place at 8:51 am local time.

Could the Israeli Air Force intentionally provoke the reaction from the Syrian military in order to justify the strike on the Syrian air defense battery?

Furthermore, some pro-Israeli experts and media activists clearly linked the incident with the visit of the Russian defense minister to Tel Aviv saying that it was a nice demonstration of power to the Russian-Iranian-Syrian alliance.

However, something went wrong.

According to the available information, the Syrian Defense Forces used a S-200 missile against the Israeli warplane. This Soviet-made missile is the most advanced long range anti-aircraft system opearated by the Syrian military. Even in this case, it’s old-fashioned in terms of the modern warfare.

Despite this, the Syrian Defense Ministry said in its statement that government forces responded to the violation of the airspace and “directly hit one of the jets, forcing [Israeli aircraft] to retreat.” This statement contradicts to the Israeli claim that “no hit” was confirmed.

Few hours after the missile incident with Syria, the Israeli media reported that the Israeli Air Force’s F-35 stealth multirole fighter went unserviceable as a result of an alleged bird collision during a training flight.

The incident allegedly took place “two weeks ago” but was publicly reported only on October 16. However, Israeli sources were not able to show a photo of the F-35 warplane after the “bird collision”.

Furthermore, it is not clear if the F-35 can become operational again because its stealth coating was damaged. Thus, according to the Israeli version, the warplane reportedly became no longer operational after the bird collision despite the fact that the F-35 earlier passed the bird strike certification with great results (official info here). The F-35 is the world’s most expensive warplane. The price of developing the F-35 is now about $406.5 billion.

Israel is actively buying the world’s self-proclaimed most advanced fighter paying about $100 million for each plane.

So what did really hit the F-35?

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  • Zainab Ali

    best news ever …. zionist satanic arrogance hit at bull’s eye … kudos indeed to syria and russia

  • Cobras

    S-200s downing F-35s, now that’s some good news.

    • MikeH

      The warhead of a S-200 missile is 217kg of explosives. If it hit a F-35, the fighter would not survive. I doubt the missile hit the plane at all

      • Jason H. Smith

        The warhead consists of 16,000 × 2g fragmentation pellets and 21,000 × 3.5g fragmentation pellets.

      • Manuel Flores Escobar

        S-200 can explote near F-35 as that missile has Via-tracking system and the operator active the warhead near the aircraft and parts can hit the plane!

        • Turbofan

          was about to say the same

      • Cobras

        Do you know that the missile warhead can explode far enough to cause some kind of damage instead of a direct explosion, right? There are infinite amounts of scenarios (distance, angle and direction) that the missile could have triggered its ordnance, thus damaging the F-35 (instead of total destruction).

        • Solomon Krupacek

          explode far

          so, no hit

        • wwinsti

          Some people do not understand the concept of a proximity fuse. That, or they Read an article about modern missiles being kinetic and extrapolate that to all SAM’s.

      • Brother Ma

        Yes i heard russian missiles can still kill with near miss but us zio weapons must hit for sure to kill.

        • Solomon Krupacek

          and they hit.
          advanced technology

          • LR captain

            advanced don’t mean is practical.

            The Trash can E-War system its just moving the Junk Data pack to another processor so main one is uninfected. You don’t need more advanced equipment just some spare processors.

            funny this system would only cost around 3,000 min – 12,000 max per unit and the US does not even have anything equivalent on their radars, SAMs , etc. This just goes to show that buying all your equipment from a few companies means they can sell a less than perfect product and charge what ever they want.

            Russians have different defense companies (that completing against each other) for the same thing and by doing so have more options. so, even through they won’t have the funds to make their tech more advanced they try to make up for it in practical ideas.

            So the US has to pay for an over priced pieces of crap that are claimed to be perfect. With no options to get individual extras. Unless you pay a full package.

            While Russia pays far less for its equipment/hardware that is believed to be reliable. They can ask for extras and will get them for free.

          • FlorianGeyer

            Tell that to the thousands of civilians murdered with advanced US technology Solomon. Including the residents of Gaza.

      • Andrew

        The fuse on the S-200 is proximity or command, though.

      • Brandmand for Bidermeyer

        Correction: High explosive fragmentary warhead. It shoots out heavy splinters in all directions

  • FlorianGeyer

    Syria has many ‘tough old birds’ that can still fly :)

    • MikeH

      I’d rather fly a Mig-21 in a dogfight vs a F-35.

      • Solomon Krupacek

        :DDDDDDDDDDDDD masochist

        • Stein

          it (or most planes) would never get in dogfight range but if they did the F35 is toast

          • Tudor Miron

            That’s a mistake (to think so) similar to Vietnam war era thoughts that guns are absolete and AA rockets is the culprit.

      • BMWA1

        Sopwith Camel would do me.

      • drbhelthi

        Which version of the MiG 21 would you choose ?

        • ruca

          The free version, but without ads)) I think any of them would successfully take on the F35. А stands for Flying turkey.

          • drbhelthi

            Neat, LOL !

            Is the MiG21 much more aerobatic or the F35CF so incredibly clumsy ?

          • ruca

            The legendary MIG21 Interceptor vs the Flying turkey ))))

  • Greg

    American ordnance is massively overhyped and overpriced. I wouldn’t be surprised if the F-35 turns out to be an extremely average waste of money.

    • Tudor Miron

      Well it is not average… in terms of sums wasted.

    • Nigel Maund

      How about outrageous waste of taxpayers money?

    • Virgil Cane

      us ordnance is not at all overhyped at all. no country makes ordnance of quality comparable. now the f-35 – a fighter jet – is a different story; an over engineered, over complicated tool of war (its not ordnance)

  • BMWA1

    At a bare minimum, the story indicates that the outdated S200 system can target the modern ‘stealth’ tech of the FF35, at 0.1% of the price.

  • Vince Dhimos

    Even the National Interest reports that the F-35 is way overpriced and that the Russian Su-35 (which costs a third as much) can outmaneuver it. It is hard to believe that the Israelis were stupid enough to waste their money on these. Time to switch to Russian technology. Oh, and time to stay away from Syrian air space too. Perhaps the Russians will replace those S-200s with S-300s or S-400s.

    • Don Machiavelli

      they didn’t spend shekel, it’s free under military aid

      • Vince Dhimos

        Ha. The only way they could unload the white elephants, I guess. LOL

    • Solomon Krupacek

      i wander, whether su-35 will be superior to f-35 in the first sachalin war?

  • Lud Van Daal

    Small correction, Israel does not buy the planes. They get them from the US for free.

    • That’s not a small correction. That’s a huge correction: 100 million a piece.

      • JPH

        Underestimation.

    • χρηστος

      you mistake the assistance tthat US gives to many NATO coutries in weapons with the F-35 programm. Us aided israel with Xmillion $ every year which translates to free weapons deliveries or spare parts. But the F-35 programm is indipendent each country that has them buys them for many many millions of $

      • AlexanderAmproz

        NATO Countries are “obliged” to buy F-35.
        to please their boss !

        Seventy years of harassing political establishment and people of Europe

        http://www.voltairenet.org/article190171.html

        • χρηστος

          thats the way things work. in the entire world….US gives aid (lets say obsolete M113s) and you have to buy f-16s.

        • VeeNarian (Yerevan)

          This must be the case of “you scratch my back (buy expensive and useless equipment) or I will scratch your eyes out (colour revolutions, occupations etc)”.

          • AlexanderAmproz

            NATO is part of Europe American Cancer !

          • Jens Holm

            Yes, and we hope You will die soon. Unfortunatly its not appropriate to start with making Damaskus to a lake.

          • AlexanderAmproz

            US/NATO want also to turn Europe and Russia into a lake too,
            NATO is US N A Z I
            US like it or not, Russia is part of Europe
            Educated Jews are automatically anti-Zionist

            Anglo-American Money Owners Organized World War II
            http://www.voltairenet.org/article187508.html

          • Jens Holm

            It is too sometimes but not always as A.A. try to make us buy as some cheep schratching.

            Denmark has the Thule Airbase in Greenland North East. It protect us from Russia but also get us depended. Its a fair trade being protacted and pay for it.

          • Valery Grigoryev

            Why are you sure, that Russia is a threat for Denmark, Jens?
            It’s an absurd. We are normal civilised people like you.
            Please, don’t believe the cold war fairy tales.

        • Jens Holm

          We are not oblieged.

          You can only find about 5 which fit into our needs. 2 are american and F35 is the most advanced.

          And when we buy its a part of a trade. Many parts are often made by ourselves, and if we have to bouy for so many millions from them, they have to buy a lot from us too.

          • AlexanderAmproz

            Europe should join Russia and buy SU-35
            and end-up US NeoColonialism over Europe.
            Culturally, Europe without Russia is orphan !

          • vet vetlesen

            “American warmongers are Genociders by Nature,
            just have a look at what they did in Japan, Korea, Vietnam,
            Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, Timor, Afghanistan
            for Asia NeoColonialism.”

            List_of_wars_involving_Russia
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

          • AlexanderAmproz

            Pearl Harbor was self inflicted,
            Hollywood isn’t reliable for History,
            but for Propaganda !

            If interested by South-East Asia History,
            — Professor Alfred McCoy is the reference,
            — Noam Chomsky is good too !
            — Sterling Seagrave “The Yamato Dynasty”
            is also a very good and interesting book

          • vet vetlesen

            “Eisenhower, Churchill, and Stalin were worst
            than Hitler.”

            And how, exactly, would you explain that?

          • AlexanderAmproz

            Image control by the Medias, only speak good about peoples
            they want to promote and the opposite, even invent for who they
            want to drown.
            Who want to kill his dog, will say he has rabies

            — Was Churchill largely responsible for the Bengal famine of 1943?
            https://www.quora.com/Was-Churchill-largely-responsible-for-the-Bengal-famine-of-1943
            — Anglo-American Money Owners Organized World War II
            http://www.voltairenet.org/article187508.html

            — Stalin Gulag victims were about 70 Millions, Gulag Managers and Butchers were mostly Jews according
            to Alexandre Soljenitsyne last book…
            Frozen feet and hands were cut with metal saw without
            anesthesia and cauterize with red iron

            Fox News and Hollywood aren’t enough to learn,
            you look very ignorant and naive.
            Ask Irish how many Queen Victoria did she “Genocide”
            by starvation with the Catholic Clergy help, 7 or 10 Millions ?

            If interested, may I suggest you to go in an University Library ?

          • vet vetlesen

            “If interested, may I suggest you to go in an University Library ?”

            In what University book do you find that Churchill was worse than Hitler?

          • jerry hamilton

            As a Brit, I will try to reply.
            Yes, Churchill starved millions of Asian Indians by stealing their food.
            That alone should make him evil.
            The thing is, he loved war. He got off on it.
            Before the start of WW1, as First Lord of the Admiralty, he sent ships to a position where Germany felt very threatened. HE was trying to start a war.
            WW2. Britain declared war on Germany.
            You can’t blame Chamberlain because Churchill was calling the shots.
            That is why Chamberlain disappeared so fast.
            He declared war for all the wrong reasons.
            Well he had a large estate, he had been unemployed and had The Focus Group support him while he had no income.
            Basically, he was bought and paid for.
            The Poles had been killing Germans in Danzig and the corridor.
            The land that was taken from Germany at the Versailles Treaty and given to Poland..
            Hitler had told Poland he would invade if they continued.
            He also told Chamberlain to make the murders stop, or he, Hitler would.
            Chamberlain promised he would make the mass murders stop.
            He didn’t.
            Hitler made it stop. When he had, he requested peace.
            He said he would pull all his troops out of Poland and resort to peace.
            The last thing every country expected was for Churchill to refuse peace.
            Churchill wanted war.
            Because of that, how many died?
            A lot more than the 6 million that was being reported by zionists since the year 1900. Google it.
            Sometimes, discovering what happened can make you an outcast.

          • Kell

            Churchill was given a personal loan from Baron Rothschild to bail out his personal gambling debts in the 1930s.

          • jerry hamilton
          • AlexanderAmproz

            Anglo-American Money Owners Organized World War II

            by Valentin Katasonov

            To mark the 70th anniversary of the Victory against Nazism, we publish a study of Valentin Katasonov on financing of the NSDAP and the rearmament of the Third Reich. The author deals with new documents that confirm the organization of the Second World War by US and UK Bankers, covered by President Franklin Roosevelt and Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, in the hope of destroying the USSR. This study raises new questions that will be addressed in a future article.

            Hjalmar Schacht (left), Hitler’s finance minister, with his close friend Montagu Norman, Governor of the Bank of England from 1920 to 1944. According to documents reveled by the Bank of England in 2012, he Czechoslovak gold was held in London in a sub-account in the name of the Bank for International Settlements, the Basel-based bank for central banks. When the Nazis marched into Prague in March 1939 they immediately sent armed soldiers to the offices of the National Bank. The Czech directors were ordered, on pain of death, to send two transfer requests. The first instructed the BIS to transfer 23.1 metric tons of gold from the Czechoslovak BIS account, held at the Bank of England, to the Reichsbank BIS account, also held at Threadneedle Street. The second order instructed the Bank of England to transfer almost 27 metric tons of gold held in the National Bank of Czechoslovakia’s own name to the BIS’s gold account at the Bank of England.

            The war was not unleashed by frenzied Fuhrer who happened to be ruling Germany at the time. WWII is a project created by world oligarchy or Anglo-American “money owners”. Using such instruments as the US Federal Reserve System and the Bank of England they started to prepare for the next world conflict of global scale right after WWI. The USSR was the target.

            The Dawes and Young Plans, the creation of Bank of International Settlements (BIS), the Germany’s suspension of reparations payments it had to pay according to Paris Peace Treaty and the acquiescence of Russia’s former allies in this decision, large-scale foreign investments into the economy of Third Reich, the militarization of German economy and the breaches of Paris Treaty provisions – they all were important milestones on the way of preparing the war.

            There were key figures behind the plot: the Rockefellers, the Morgans, Lord Montagu Norman (the Governor of the Bank of England), Hjalmar Schacht (President of the Reichsbank and Minister of Economics in the Hitler’s government).The strategic plan of Rockefellers and Morgans was to subjugate Europe economically, saturate Germany with foreign investments and credits and make it deliver a crushing blow against the Soviet Russia so that it would be returned into the world capitalist system as a colony.

            Montagu Norman (1871 – 1950) played an important role of go-between to keep up a dialogue between American financial circles and Germany’s business leaders. Hjalmar Schacht organized the revival of Germany’s defense sector of economy. The operation conducted by “money owners” was covered up by such politicians as Franklin Roosevelt, Neville Chamberlain and Winston Churchill. In Germany the plans were carried out by Hitler and Hjalmar Schacht. Some historians say Hjalmar Schacht played a more important role than Hitler. Simply Schacht kept away from spotlight.

            The Dawes Plan was an attempt following World War I for the Triple Entente to compromise and collect war reparations debt from Germany. The Dawes Plan (as proposed by the Dawes Committee, chaired by Charles G. Dawes) was an attempt in 1924 to solve the reparations problem, which had bedeviled international politics following World War I and the Treaty of Versailles (France was reluctant to accept it got over 50% of reparations). In 1924-1929 Germany got $2, 5 billion from the United States and $ 1, 5 billion from Great Britain, according to Dawes Plan. In today’s prices the sum is huge, it is equal to $1 trillion of US dollars. Hjalmar Schacht played an active role in the implementation of Dawes Plan. In 1929 he summed up the results, saying that in 5 years Germany got more foreign loans that the United States in the 40 years preceding WWI. As a result, in 1929 Germany became the world’s second largest industrial nation leaving Great Britain behind.

            In the 1930s the process of feeding Germany with investments and credits continued. The Young Plan was a program for settling German reparations debts after World War I written in 1929 and formally adopted in 1930. It was presented by the committee headed (1929–30) by American industrialist Owen D. Young, creator and ex-first chairman of Radio Corporation of America (RCA), who, at the time, concurrently served at board of trustees of Rockefeller Foundation, and also had been one of representatives involved in previous war reparations restructuring arrangement – Dawes Plan of 1924. According to the plan, the Bank of International Settlements (BIS) was created in 1930 to make Germany pay reparations to victors. In reality the money flows went in quite a different direction – from the United States and Great Britain to Germany. The majority of strategically important German companies belonged to American capital or were partly under its control. Some of them belonged to British investors. German oil refinery and coal liquefaction sectors of economy belonged to Standard Oil (the Rockefellers). FarbenindustrieAG chemical industry major wasmoved under the control of the Morgan Group. 40% of telephone network and 30% of Focke Wulf shares belonged to American ITT. Radio and AEG, Siemens, Osram electrical industry majors moved under the control of American General Electric. ITT and General Electric were part of the Morgan’s empire. At least 100% of the Volkswagen shares belonged to American Ford. By the time Hitler came to power the US financial capital practically controlled all strategically important sectors of German industry: oil refining, synthetic fuel production, chemistry, car building, aviation, electrical engineering, radio industry, and a large part of machine-building (totally 278 companies). The leading German banks – Deutsche Bank, Dresdner Bank, Donat Bank and some others – were under US control.

            ***

            On January 30, 1933 Hitler was named the Chancellor of Germany. Before that his candidacy had been thoroughly studied by American bankers. HjalmarSchacht went to the United States in the autumn of 1930 to discuss the nomination with American colleagues. The Hitler’s appointment was finally approved at a secret meeting of financiers in the United States. He spent the whole 1932 trying to convince the German bankers that Hitler was the right person for the position. He achieved the goal. In mid-November 1932 17 German largest bankers and industrialists sent a letter to President Hindenburg expressing their demand to make Hitler the Chancellor of Germany. The last working meeting of German financiers before the election was held on January 4, 1933 in Kölnat the home of banker Kurt von Schröder. After that the National Socialist Party came to power. As a result, the financial and economic ties of Germany with Anglo-Saxons elevated to a higher level.

            Hitler immediately made an announcement that he refused to pay postwar reparations. It put into doubt the ability of England and France to pay off WWI debts to the United States. Washington did not object to the Hitler’s announcement. In May 1933 Hjalmar Schacht paid another visit to the United States. There he met with President Franklin Roosevelt and big bankers to reach a $1 billion credit deal.In June the same year Hjalmar Schacht visited London to hold talks with Montagu Norman. It all went down smoothly. The British agreed to grant a $2 billion loan. The British offered no objections related to the Germany’s decision to suspend debt payments.

            Some historians say the American and British bankers were pliant because by 1932 the Soviet Union had fulfilled the 5-year economic development plan to make it achieve new heights as an industrial power. A few thousand enterprises were built, especially in the sector of heavy industry. The dependence of USSR on import of engineering production has greatly dwindled. The chances to strangle the Soviet Union economically were practically reduced to zero. They decided to rely on war and launched the runaway militarization of Germany.

            It was easy for Germany to get American credits. By and large, Hitler came to power in his country at the same time as Franklin Roosevelt took office in the United States. The very same bankers who supported Hitler in 1931 supported Roosevelt at the presidential election. The newly elect President could not but endorse large credits to Germany. By the way, many noticed that there was a big similarity between the Roosevelt’s “New Deal Policy” and the economic policy of the German Third Reich. No wonder. The very same people worked out and consulted the both governments at the time. They mainly represented US financial circles.

            The Roosevelt’s New Deal soon started to stumble on the way. In 1937 America plunged into the quagmire of economic crisis. In 1939 the US economy operated at 33% of its industrial capacity (it was 19% in the heat of the 1929-1933 crisis).

            Rexford G. Tugwell, an economist who became part of Franklin Roosevelt’s first “Brain, a group of Columbia University academics who helped develop policy recommendations leading up to Roosevelt’s New Deal,wrote that in 1939 the government failed to reach any success.There was an open seatill the day Hitler invaded Poland.Only the mighty wind of war could dissipate the fog. Any other measures Roosevelt could take were doomed to failure. [1] Only the world war could save the US capitalism. In 1939 the money owners used all leverage at their disposal to put pressure of Hitler and make him unleash a big war in the east.

            ***

            The Bank of International Settlements (BIS) played an important role during the Second World War. It was created as an outpost of American interests in Europe and a link between Anglo-American and German businesses, a kind of offshore zone for cosmopolitan capital providing a shelter from political processes, wars, sanctions and other things. The Bank was created as a public commercial entity, it’s immunity from government interference and such things as taxes collection was guaranteed by international agreement signed in the Hague in 1930.

            The bankers of Federal Reserve Bank of New York, who were close to the Morgans, Montagu Norman, the Governor of the Bank of England, German financiers: Hjalmar Schacht (President of the Reichsbank and Minister of Economics in the Hitler’s government), Walther Funk (who later replaced Hjalmar Schacht as President of the Reichsbank) and EmilPuhl – all of them played an important role in the efforts to establish the Bank. The central banks of Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany, Belgium and some private banks were among the founders. The Federal Bank of New York did its best to establish the BIS, but it was not listed as a founder. The US was represented by the private First National Bank of New York, J.P. Morgan and Company, the First National Bank of Chicago – all parts of the Morgan’s empire. Japan was also represented by private banks. In 1931-1932 19 European central banks joined the Bank of International Settlements. Gates W. McGarrah, a banker of Rockefeller’s clan, was the first BIS chairman of the board. He was replaced by Leon Fraser, who represented the clan of Morgans. US citizen Thomas H. McKittrick was President of the Bankduring the war years.

            A lot has already been written about the BIS activities serving the interests of Third Reich. The Bank was involved in deals with different countries, including those Germany was at war with. Ever since Pearl Harbor the Bank of International Settlements has been a correspondent bank for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. It was under Nazi control during the war years, no matter American Thomas Huntington McKittrick was the Bank’s President. Soldiers were dying on the battlefields while the leadership of BIS held meetings in Basel with the bankers of Germany, Japan, Italy, Belgium, Great Britain and the United States. There, in the Swiss offshore zone, it was all peaceful, the representatives of belligerents quietly worked in the atmosphere of mutual understanding.

            Switzerland became the place where gold seized by Germany in different corners of Europe was transported to for storage. In the March of 1938, when Hitler captured Vienna, part of Austrian gold was transferred to BIS vaults. The same thing happened with the gold of Czech National Bank (48 million USD). As the war started, the flows of gold poured into the Bank of International Settlements. Germany got it from concentration camps and as a result of plundering the wealth of occupied countries (including whatever belonged to civilians: jewels, gold crowns, cigarette cases, utensils…). It was called the Nazi Gold. The metal was processed into ingots to be stored in the Bank of International Settlements, Switzerland, or outside Europe. Charles Higham in his Trading With The Enemy: An Expose of The Nazi-American Money Plot 1933-1949 wrote that during the war Nazi transferred $378 million into the accounts of Bank of International Settlements.

            A few words about the Czech gold. The details surfaced when after the Bank of England’s archives were declassified in 2012. [2] In the March of 1939 Germany captured Prague. Nazi demanded $48 million of national gold reserves. They were told that the sum had already been transferred to the Bank of International Settlements. Later it became known that the gold was transferred from Basel to the vaults of Bank of England. Upon the command from Berlin the gold was transferred to the ReichsbankBIS account. Then the Bank of England was involved in transactions done upon the orders of Reichsbank given to the Bank of International settlements. The commands were retransmitted to London. There was collusion between German Reichsbank, the Bank of International Settlements and the Bank of England. In 1939 a scandal broke out in Great Britain because the Bank of England executed the transactions with Czech gold upon the commands coming from Berlin and Basel, not the Czech government. For instance, in the June of 1939, three months before the war between Great Britain and Germany started, the Bank of England helped Germans to get into their accounts the amount of gold equal to 440 thousand pounds sterling and transfer some gold to New York (Germany was sure that in case of German intervention into Poland the United States would not declare war).

            The illegal transactions with Czech gold were implemented with tacit approval of the government of Great Britain which was aware of what was going on. Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, Chancellor of the Exchequer Sir John Simon and other top officials did their best to hide the truth, including outright lies (the gold was returned to the lawful owner or had never been transferred to Reichsbank). The recently declassified materials of Bank of England reveal the truth and show that the government officials lied to cover up themselves and the activities of the Bank of England and the Bank of International Settlements. It was easy to coordinate the joint criminal activities because Montagu Norman, the head of Bank of England, served as the chairman of the board of Bank of International Settlements. He never made secret of his sympathy for fascists.

            The Bretton Woods Conference, formally known as the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference, was the gathering of 730 delegates from all 44 allied nations at the Mount Washington Hotel situated in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, the United States, to regulate the international monetary and financial order after the conclusion of World War II. The conference was held from 1 to 22 July 1944. All of a sudden the issue of the Bank of International Settlements hit the agenda. It was reported that the bank collaborated with fascist Germany. Leaving many details aside, I’d only mention that with great difficulty (some US delegates opposed the motion) the delegates reached an agreement to close the BIS. The decision of international conference has never been enacted. All the discreditable information related to the BIS wartime activities was classified. Today it helps to falsify the history of the Second World War.

            Finally, a few words about Hjalmar Schacht (1877-1970) who served as President of the Reichsbank and Minister of Economics in the fascist Germany’s government. He was a key figure controlling the economic machine of Third Reich, an extraordinary and plenipotentiaryambassador representing Anglo-American capital in Germany. In 1945 Schacht was tried at Nuremberg to be acquitted on October 1, 1946. He got away with murder. The same way it happened to Hitler. For some unexplained reasons he was not in the 1945 leading wartime criminals list. More to it, Schacht returned to his profession like if nothing happened and founded Schacht GmbH in Düsseldorf. This detail may go unnoticed, though it serves as another testimony to the fact that Anglo-American “money owners” and their plenipotentiary representatives in Germany prepared and, to some extent, influenced the outcome of the Second World War. The “money owners” want to rewrite the history of the war and change its results.

            Valentin Katasonov

            Source

            [1] P.Tugwell, The Democratic Roosevelt, A Biography of Franklin D. Roosevelt, New York, 1957, p 477.

            [2] http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/arch

          • vet vetlesen

            Your quoted article, while intriguing, makes no mention of Churchill vs. Hitler, as per your claim, nor is it even about WW2 and its atrocities.

            Again: Where is the scholarly or consensus which say Churchills actions, or perhaps rather lack of them, is ‘worse’, whatever that actually means, than the deliberate and systematic atrocities perpetrated by Hitler and the Nazis?

          • AlexanderAmproz

            There is nice photos for the MSM product you are !

            The text is in French, photos didn’t need translation !
            http://www.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/propagande-et-holodomors-oublies-180294

            6’000’000’000 hitler victims are the most important
            20’000’000’000 Alies, mostly Children’s, Women, elderly have none value… The British can be Proud of Sir Arthur Harris, 1st Baronet
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Arthur_Harris,_1st_Baronet

            The 70’000’000’000 Staline victims cut into pieces with metal saw
            by Jews butchers have none value too !

            the Mao 50’000’000’000 have little propaganda value
            how many were only cannibalism and starvation victims ?

            Only imaginary Gas camp have Propaganda value
            most of the Jews die by a deficient immune system
            with atrocious sicknesses, worst than any gas chambers,
            but a poor medias impact !

            The NATO 3’000’000’000 victims in-between
            Afghanistan and Libya have none value too !
            Madelaine Albright said she was Proud
            to be responsible of 500’000 Iraqi Children’s Death !

            Already told you “Go in an University Library” if interested
            by human trashes and war Criminals !

          • vet vetlesen

            Again you are side-tracking the issue in question. So I will ask again: Can you provide any reasonable source whatsoever that compares Hitler, Churchill etc. as per your claim:

            “Eisenhower, Churchill, and Stalin were worst
            than Hitler.”

            Or is it perhaps simply your own personal opinion?

          • AlexanderAmproz

            Your Gullible and ignorance stubbornness is amazing !

          • vet vetlesen

            Sorry, but you know nothing about my knowledge on this subject. I have simply asked you to substantiate your claim, but all you do is copy-paste numbers and links, and refer to some unambiguous “University books”. If you feel I have misunderstood your statement, then you should say so Instead of resorting to insults and meaningless posts like the above.

          • AlexanderAmproz

            unambiguous “University books”

            If interested by South-East Asia History,

            — Professor Alfred McCoy is the reference,
            — Noam Chomsky is good too !
            — Sterling Seagrave “The Yamato Dynasty”

            is also a very good and interesting book

            — Stalin Gulag victims were about 70 Millions,
            (Jews Holocaust is 6 Millions)

            Gulag Managers and Butchers were mostly Jews,
            according to Alexandre Soljenitsyne last book…
            Frozen feet and hands were cut with metal saw without
            anesthesia and cauterize with red iron…

            For the moment Soljenitsyne is considered
            the modern Dostojewski !
            But was quick out of the MSM to have published the
            Gulag butchers and managers Jew names.

            Noam Chomsky is considered the Greatest living thinker by many !

            If you have knowledges without to be able to think, it’s useless

            One more copy and past for you from an obscure scholar(lol)
            unknown by CNN and Fox News
            ========================

            MADE BY THE USA

            Manufacturing “Failed States”

            by Edward S. Herman

            The United States has mastered the art of undermining its targets by fomenting domestic terrorism, and then laying the responsibility on them for the crimes sponsored by Washington itself. This method affords it the possibility both to justify military intervention and to carry it out without risk. The well-oiled scheme described here by Edward S. Herman is now being applied in Syria.

            An Al-Qaeda operative who arrived in Syria with Western officials. Why change a recipe that works?

            During the Vietnam War, a sign over one of the U.S. army bases read “Killing Is Our Business, and Business Is Good.” Well, it was a very good business in Vietnam (and Cambodia, Laos, and Korea as well), the number of civilian deaths running into the millions. And it has been quite respectable in the years after Vietnam. The killings have been carried out both directly and via proxies on every continent, as U.S. “national security” has required bases, garrisons, assassinations, invasions, bombing wars, and the sponsorship of killer regimes, real terror networks, and programs everywhere in response to terrorist threats and challenges to the “pitiful giant.” Jan Knippers Black pointed out years ago in her great book [1] that “national security” is a wonderfully elastic concept, expanding in accord with “what a nation, class or institution…thinks it should have,” with the result that it is those “whose wealth and power would appear to make them most secure who are, in fact, most paranoid, and who, by their frenetic attempts to ensure their security, bring on their own destruction.” (She was addressing the 1960s Brazilian threat of social democracy and its termination by a U.S.-supported counter-revolution and military dictatorship.) Add to this the search by the vested interests of the military-industrial-complex for missions to justify budget increases, and the mainstream media’s full cooperation in this search, and we have a frightening reality.

            In reality, the fake-paranoid giant has had to struggle valiantly to produce more or less credible threats, especially with the fall of the “Evil Empire,” which this country had long been allegedly “containing.” Thank goodness that after relatively brief spurts of attention to narco-terrorism and then Saddam’s threatening weapons of mass destruction, Islamic terrorism came virtually out of nowhere to provide a successor threat, no doubt produced by hostility to U.S. freedoms and the Islamic world’s unwillingness to allow Israel to find a negotiating partner and peaceably settle any disputes with the Palestinians.

            But in addition to maintaining the killing and associated arms business at a high level, the United States has become a large-scale manufacturer of failed states. By a failed state I mean one that has been crushed militarily or rendered unmanageable by political and/or economic destabilization and a resultant chaos and is unable (or is not permitted) for long periods to recover and take care of its citizens’ needs. Of course, the United States has been such a manufacturer for a long time, as in the cases of Haiti, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala and those Indochinese states where killing was so good. But we have seen a dramatic resurgence in more recent times, some of it more or less peaceful, as in the cases of post-Soviet Russia and several of the Eastern European states, where income declines and sharply increased mortality rates resulted from “shock therapy” and Western-assisted but partly locally organized and supported elite semi-legal grand larceny (i.e., privatization under exceptionally corrupt conditions).

            But there has been a fresh stream of failed states brought about by U.S. and NATO “humanitarian intervention” and regime change, carried out more aggressively in the wake of the death of the Soviet Union (and thus the end of an important if limited force of “containment”). Humanitarian intervention in Yugoslavia has been a model, with Bosnia, Serbia and Kosovo turned into failed states, several other weaklings broken out, all of them Western clients or supplicants, plus a huge U.S. military base in Kosovo, with this package replacing one formerly independent social democratic state. This demonstration of the merits of imperial intervention set the stage for further failed-state manufacturing efforts in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Iraq, the Democratic Republic of Congo, and Libya, with a similar program well advanced today in Syria and one obviously in process for some years in the Free World’s treatment of a threatening Iran, following its happy relationship with the Western-imposed Shah dictatorship.

            These manufactured failures have often had common features that show them to be a product of imperial policy and the projection of imperial power. One frequent feature is the rise and/or recognition of ethnic group rebels who claim victimhood, fight their government with terroristic acts, sometimes designed to provoke a violent government response, and who regularly appeal to the imperial powers to come to their aid. Sometimes foreign mercenaries are imported to aid the rebels, and both the indigenous rebels and mercenaries are often armed, trained and given logistical support by the imperial powers. The imperial powers encourage these rebel efforts as they find them useful to justify destabilizing, bombing, and eventually overthrowing the target regime.

            This process was evident throughout the period of the dismantlement of Yugoslavia and creation of the resultant set of failed states. The NATO powers wanted Yugoslavia taken apart and the Republic of Serbia, its largest and most independent component, crushed. They encouraged nationalist elements within the other Republics to rebel, and all of these recognized that NATO would support and eventually go to war for them. This made for prolonged warfare and ethnic cleansing, but did eventually succeed in the destruction of Yugoslavia and creation of the residual failed states [2]. Amusingly, Al Qaeda elements and mercenaries were imported into both Bosnia and Kosovo to help fight the target Republic (Serbia), with the knowledge and cooperation of the Clinton administration, as well as Iran [3]. Al Qaeda was also one of the constituents of the freedom fighters engaged in the Libyan campaign, and is now admitted even if a little belatedly in the New York Times to be a factor in the Syria regime-change program [4]. And, of course, it was a centerpiece in the regime change in Afghanistan and basis of the “blowback” of 9/11 (Bin Laden having been an important Saudi-US.-sponsored rebel, subsequently abandoned by those sponsors, and later attacking, demonized, and killed by them).

            These programs always involve serious “atrocities management,” whereby the government under attack is accused of major acts of violence against the rebels and their supporters, and is by this process effectively demonized and set up for more massive intervention. This was very important in the Yugoslav breakup wars, and possibly even more so in Libya and Syria. The process is greatly helped by the mobilization of international agencies, which participate in the demonization by denouncing the atrocities and sometimes indicting and prosecuting the targeted villains. In the case of Yugoslavia, the UN-established International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) worked hand-in-glove with the NATO powers in setting up the Serb leadership for prosecution and justifying any action the US and NATO wanted to take. In a beautiful illustration of the process, the ICTY prosecutor indicted Milosevic in May 1999 just as NATO turned to deliberately bombing Serb civilian facilities to hasten Serbian surrender, although these were war crimes and carried out under a UN Charter violation. But they diverted world attention from the unpleasant and illegal NATO behavior to the charges against the demonized Milosevic.

            Similarly, with NATO eager to attack Libya, the prosecutor at the International Criminal Court quickly indicted Muammar Gaddafi without even having conducted any independent investigation, and with an established prosecutor record of never having indicted anybody except Africans who were not Western clients. This kind of “juridical management” is invaluable to the imperial powers and feeds well into the advance of regime change and the manufacture of failed states.

            There are also purportedly independent human rights groups and “democracy promotion” entities like Human Rights Watch, the International Crisis Group, and the Open Society Institute that regularly get on the imperial bandwagon by featuring the violence of the targeted regime and its leaders. This also feeds into the mainstream media, the entire set providing the moral environment for more aggressive intervention on behalf of the victims.

            This is helped still further by the fact that the atrocity claims and pictures of grieving widows and refugees, the seemingly compelling evidence on atrocities, and an establishment consensus on the “responsibility to protect” the victim populations, also affect liberal and left elements in the West, causing some to join the mainstream throng in denouncing the targeted regime and demanding humanitarian intervention, and many others to lapse into silence because of confusion and an unwillingness to be accused of “supporting the dictators.” The argument of the interventionists is that while we may seem to be supporting an expanding imperialism, exceptions must be made where exceptionally bad things are happening and the home public is aroused and wants action, but we may show our progressive credentials by trying to micro-manage and contain the imperial attack, as in insisting on adherence to a no-fly zone intervention in Libya [5]

            There is a good case to be made that the United States itself is a failed or failing state. It obviously has not been crushed militarily by any foreign power, but its underlying population has been hugely damaged by its own permanent war system. In this case the military elite, with its contractor, banker, political, media and intellectual allies has greatly enlarged poverty and mass distress, shriveled the public services, and impoverished the country, making it impossible for the hamstrung and compromised leadership to properly service its ordinary citizens, despite steadily rising per capita productivity and GDP. The surpluses are drained into the war system and the consumption and ownership of a small minority, who, in what Steven Pinker in The Better Angels of Our Nature calls the era of “recivilization,” are aggressively striving to go beyond mere surplus monopolization to transfers from the incomes, wealth and public claims of the great (and struggling) majority. As a failed state as well as in other ways the United States is surely an exceptional nation!

            Edward S. Herman

            http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/09/m

            [1] United States Penetration of Brazil, by Jan Knippers Black, Pennsylvania University Press, 1977, 313 pages.

            [2] See “The Dismantling of Yugoslavia”, by Edward S. Herman and David Peterson, Monthly Review, October 2007.

            [3] See John Schindler’s Unholy Terror, which presses this theme very effectively, and is thereby unreviewable, except in Z Magazine! See my “Safari Journalism: Schindler’s Unholy Terror versus the Sarajevo Safari’s Mythical Multi-Ethnic Project,” Z Magazine, April 2008)

            [4] Rod Nordland, “Al Qaeda Taking Deadly New Role in Syria Conflict,” New York Times, July 24, 2012.

            [5] See Gilbert Achcar, “A legitimate and necessary debate from an anti-imperialist perspective,” ZNet, March 25, 2011; and my reply in “Gilbert Achcar’s Defense of Humanitarian Intervention,” MRZine, April 8, 2011, which refers to the “imperialist fine-tuning left.”).

          • jerry hamilton

            You must be aware of Stalin and his Gulags.
            If not, google Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 200 years together.
            Next google Eisenhowers Rhine Meadows.
            I have already pointed Churchill out. He was the one that kept rejecting Hitlers peace offers.
            Churchill made WW2 happen and he had a lot to do with provoking WW1.
            How many deaths should we attribute to him? 70 million?

          • Nod

            Here is how it works, he provided lots of reference. Some of it IS fact, at least to my knowledge. For instance, Albright did state what he said she stated. So then did the US government state the same, as she is most definitely a relevant agent.

            So then, debunk what he posted, rather than babbling about how you just want more, more , and more. If you catch him in a lie, you destroy his credibility. He may be wrong with some of it, but what he is absolutely correct in, is that the Jews are not the only to have suffered pursuant the machinations of those who rule.

            who is worse, IS AN opinion. It doesn’t change the facts one bit. Stalin was one of the worst, alongside Hitler. . Stalin murdered 30 million of his own, after taking away their guns.

            Bush and Obama are chicken feed I guess, they only murdered around 2 million for imperialism , all based on lies and bullshit
            =========================================
            “”We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran” –General Wesley Clark. Retired 4-star U.S. Army general, Supreme Allied Commander of NATO during the 1999 War on Yugoslavia .
            ========================================
            “That is the phenomenon of the US. Since 1945 they’ve destroyed 73 countries and were directly involved in the deaths of 26 million people. It is a horror show. It just must stop!”
            John Shipton, journalist and executive officer of Wiki Leaks.`
            ========================================
            “last month, the Washington DC-based Physicians for Social Responsibility (PRS) released a landmark study concluding that the death toll from 10 years of the “War on Terror” since the 9/11 attacks is at least 1.3 million, and could be as high as 2 million.

            The 97-page report by the Nobel Peace Prize-winning doctors’ group”

            “The PSR report is authored by an interdisciplinary team of leading public health experts, including Dr. Robert Gould, director of health professional outreach and education at the University of California San Francisco Medical Center, and Professor Tim Takaro of the Faculty of Health Sciences at Simon Fraser University.”

            http://www.psr.org/assets/pdfs/body-count.pdf
            ===============================================

            aND AS A MATTER OF FACT, AND OPINION, i AM MUCH MORE CONCERNED WITH THE GENOCIDE HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, RATHER THAN THE HISTORICAL GENOCIDE USED TO OBSCURE THE STATUS QUO.

          • Peter

            @vet vetlesen….AlexanderAmproz has already referred you to the Bengal famine, endorsed by Churchill, which diverted precious food from a starving India to supply British troops. (While Canada and US offered to send food to India, this was discouraged by the British who were meanwhile hoarding the Indian crop). Indian death toll here approached 4 million. Churchill’s response..”to bad Ghandi wasn’t among them.” Churchill approved of the allies 1000 plane bombing raids over German cities, essentially aimed at destroying civilian morale, not to mention lives. Of note…unarmed Dresden, a city of porcelain figurine makers, was nevertheless smashed to the last stone. Churchill had devised plans for nuking Russia (it’s own ally) after the war, before it could attain it’s own bomb, called “operation unthinkable”.

          • vet vetlesen

            Anyone is entitled to his opinion. But there is a difference between good and bad speculation. The Bengal famine was the result of many factors. While the Brits’ actions or inactions might have prolonged the suffering, saying Churchill responsible is just silly. Hitler, on the other hand, planned for and industrialized the extermination of populations. This sets Hitler apart from Stalin as well. Stalin and removed his opponents and is responsible for many atrocities, but he was not genocidal in the normal meaning of the word.

            There is also a distinct difference between actions done in the context of war – like the RAF bombings and the atomic bombs – and genocide. Furthermore, whether the actions or inactions of a ruler contributing to a famine itself qualifies as a genocide is debated. It is further clouded by the fact that each case is unique and that only fragments are really documented. In the end, what one chooses to emphasize on a personal level is up to each individual, but thinking that all this can be seen in simple black-and-white terms is a big error in judgment: You should always question your source, especially when it claims for offer simple answers to very complex questions.

          • jerry hamilton

            It looks very much like you are failing badly to justify the actions of a war crazed butcher.

          • Nod

            no kidding………But I see him.

            “A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.”
            ― Saul Bellow,

          • Nod

            “but he (stalin) was not genocidal in the normal meaning of the word.“
            the babble of a disbeLIEving fool. Your opinion, is contrary to fact.

            gen·o·cide
            ˈjenəˌsīd/Submit
            noun
            the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group…..
            =======================================
            Àmazes me, the affect of cognitive dissonance able to totally corrupt the ability of a mind to think worth a damn. I dont care how you pervert the definition, to suit your ignorance.

            This means, our governments do genocide on Muslims right this moment, as does the Zionist government. That which pretends to represent Jewry. As it does genocide on Palestinian Semites.

            ============================================

            Naysaying isn’t argument. It is babble. And it makes me laugh, you keep ignoring fact, and then come back with rationalization for fact based obscenities,

            “ but thinking that all this can be seen in simple black-and-white terms is a big error in judgment: “

            What a heap of dung you sell.

            “Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking…”
            Tolstoy

            I see you clearly.

            “Stubborn and ardent clinging to one’s opinion is the best proof of stupidity.” ~Michel de Montaigne. December 3, 2011

            “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
            ― Aldous Huxley,

          • AlexanderAmproz

            Thanks you are excellent !

          • Nod

            I am only sad, at how eagerly we are led to fight amongst each other, while ALL OF US are marginalized, murdered, and fed on by our rich masters.

            “The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. … We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. … In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons … who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”

            ― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda

          • Nod

            He doesn’t want to hear it. He lacks honest intelligence.

            flat earthers lacked the same.

          • jerry hamilton
          • Nod

            Is better or worse not subjective anyhow. British have been murdering and expropriating for hundreds of years, are you effin kidding not to account for this when you babble about Hitler. Stalin murdered 30 million of his own. No one here thinks Hitler was a good man. No one here thinks that Hitler was the only bad man. Anyone who has perpetuated war and imperialism for the rich is a bad man . Period.

            “Money power rules. They are the bad men, back then, and RIGHT NOW. Using inequality, and a fraudulent monetary system to take over the planet in their own corrupt image.They control governments with debt, and force mass murder on groups who resist imperialism, and those who have resources they want. Problem is, the stupids do not want to understand that their monetary system is a ponzi scheme and they are a rube. I accepted it, and immediately felt better knowing the truth.

            Some even believe we [Rockefeller family] are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – One World, if you will.If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it ”
            | David Rockefeller |

            “Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talks of the sovereignty of Parliament and of democracy is idle and futile… Once a nation parts with the control of its credit, it matters not who makes the laws….Usury once in control will wreck the nation.”
            William Lyon MacKenzie King, former Prime Minister of Canada

          • jerry hamilton

            Only just completed this. An excellent read.

          • AlexanderAmproz

            Thank’s

          • Nod

            shush now, you bring cognitive dissonance to the fluoridated minds of the herd.

          • Nod

            Well, Stalin killed 30 million plus…..as to the Americans …

            collectively they have murdered 30 million since the last war. And as Chomsky says, if Nuremberg rules were followed, every US president since the last war would have swung…because they worked for the banksters-globalists who care not for the blood they spill. Kills me, the stupids still vote, given we know now for fact it is a farce.

            “That is the phenomenon of the US. Since 1945 they’ve destroyed 73 countries and were directly involved in the deaths of 26 million people. It is a horror show. It just must stop!”
            John Shipton, journalist and executive officer of Wiki Leaks.

            And Churchill was a drunken, prejudiced, warmongering fool who worked for the imperialists.. Imperialists kill for profit.

            Hitler, was insane. To murder millions for the actions of a few usurious and greedy bankers IS insanity.

            mens rea

            So subjectively speaking, cold hearted, deliberate, self congratulating, killers may be seen as worse than insane killers. Because they know better. How many did Bush kill, or Obama, or Bush senior, or so on, and so on, and so on.

            And according to some of the traditional Jews, Hitler had help from Zionists in accomplishing his genocide, because that helped the Zionists fill Palestine with the Jews who ran from Hitlers madness.

            Kind of like how Zionists now have the help of Americans doing their own genocide on Semites in Palestine.

            Personally, I think they are all just murdering scum.

          • Nod

            …Wiki calls IKE for what he was…

            He supported local military coups against governments in Iran and Guatemala. During the Suez Crisis of 1956, Eisenhower condemned the Israeli, British and French invasion of Egypt, and forced them to withdraw. He also condemned the Soviet invasion during the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 but took no action. During the Syrian Crisis of 1957 he approved a CIA-MI6 plan to stage fake border incidents as an excuse for an invasion by Syria’s pro-western neighbours.[5] ( sound familiar) After the Soviet Union launched Sputnik in 1957, Eisenhower authorized the establishment of NASA, which led to the space race. He deployed 15,000 soldiers during the 1958 Lebanon crisis. Near the end of his term, his efforts to set up a summit meeting with the Soviets collapsed when an American spy plane was shot down over Russia. He approved the Bay of Pigs invasion, which was left to his successor to carry out.[6]“

          • Kell
          • Nod

            I have lived through much of this. A mark of intelligence is to be able to recognize patterns. It is what makes us what we are. And one would have to be an idiot, or a beLIEver, to still
            babble on about protecting our freedom as the reason for obvious, and overt imperialism.

            “”We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran” –General Wesley Clark. Retired 4-star U.S. Army general, Supreme Allied Commander of NATO during the 1999 War on Yugoslavia .
            ————
            “That is the phenomenon of the US. Since 1945 they’ve destroyed 73 countries and were directly involved in the deaths of 26 million people. It is a horror show. It just must stop!”
            John Shipton, journalist and executive officer of Wiki Leaks

          • Nod

            what exactly, are your needs that cannot be met without feeding a military industrial complex that is destroying huge swaths of the planet and its inhabitants pray tell.

            dumbfounds me people calling themselves civilized like in the USA and France and Israel, while they sell death to whoever does their bidding. To further globalism, profit, and power. Oh ya, we are no better than Hitler with his genocidal aspirations. Doing mass murder on Islam, the media driving the hate of people who allow the expenditure to marginalize and do mass murder on the semites in Palestine, and the Muslims in the middle east.

            I wonder if it is a coincidence that Muslims resist having their oil taken by our corporate masters, and that Muslims also resist usury, that which has enslaved every country on the planet who participates in it.

            “An organism at war with itself is doomed.“ Carl Sagan

      • zman

        Israel receives far more than the $3B annual tribute from the US, we also guarantee their loans too, which they drop on us regularly. Obama, to placate Israel over the Iran deal, pledged them many more billions in weaponry over the next 10 years. So, yeah, the US does ‘give’ them to Israel. Kinda like all the politicians Israel bribes..probably comes right out of the annual tribute. Great scam…we give them the money to bribe our leaders that vote to screw us. My question is, since Bibi is getting Trump to scrap the Iran deal, do we get our money back? Damn Bibi…OK, OK, it was just a joke.

        • Jens Holm

          Yes, those F35 and military things are the netto, which all see.

        • χρηστος

          well i agree US is not the red cross…..thats what im saying…..instead of selling weapons directly they give ‘aid’. that aid goes back to US one way or another. 3B is an amazingly huge amount of money for such a small country…..why ‘waste’ US money…..because that money returns to US pockets in forms of bribes as you say, in forms of weapon contracts that give jobs to american war industry etc….

          • jerry hamilton

            Not the Red Cross….. That is far worse than you realise.
            The Red Cross in America was bought out by various corporate members.
            It is no longer a charity but a For Profit Organisation in America.
            No one in America should fund it anymore.
            Sad but that’s business.

    • Zaphod Braden

      Where is the investigation of ISRAELI “collusion in American elections”?!
      http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/10/29/how-soon-can-we-get-aipac-owned-traitors-out-of-congress/
      https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=Q05
      How many of YOUR/America’s $4+BILLION in WELFARE given to Israel every year comes back to America in the form of BRIBES to “american” politicians? Traitors voting to give Israel MORE, so they can get bigger BRIBES. .
      http://investmentwatchblog.com/former-us-lawmaker-cynthia-mckinney-says-every-candidate-for-congress-has-to-sign-a-pledge-to-vote-for-supporting-the-military-superiority-of-israel/

      • AlexanderAmproz

        Usually American Jews are double National
        and control the US Congress with the Medias.
        If a US Congressmen didn’t do what their Lobbys want,
        a forged sex story will erupt in the Medias(lol)
        Democrats and Republicans representatives
        are “Terrorized” by them !

        • Zaphod Braden

          What is good for Israel should be good for America. NO “dual citizen” allowed in government. Israel: Three dual-citizen MKs ordered to annul their foreign passports
          by Shahar Ilan – Haaretz – Feb18 2009
          The Central Elections Committee has ordered three Knesset members with dual citizenship to annul their foreign passports by next Tuesday’s swearing-in ceremony, or at least begin steps to cancel them.
          The three lawmakers are Yohanan Plesner of Kadima (who has Danish citizenship), Nitzan Horowitz of Meretz (a Polish citizen) and Yisrael Beiteinu’s Anastasia Michaeli, who holds a Russian passport. The Basic Law on the Knesset states that “a member of Knesset holding an additional citizenship that is not Israeli … will not take the oath of loyalty until he has done everything he can to relinquish it.” –
          Nobody can have loyalty to TWO Nations at the same time. So nobody with “dual citizenship” should be allowed to hold any post in our government, JUST like Israel does.

          By the way ……. How many CHRISTIANS sit in the Israeli “knesset”? has ANY? EVER?
          CHRISTIAN tax dollars bought and paid for Israel —- their knesset should be 50% CHRISTIAN.
          Israel would not EXIST without JESUS CHRIST and the tax dollars of HIS Flock.
          A major problem in the USA today is the concept of “dual citizenship”. Until 1968, “dual citizenship” was strictly prohibited. An Eastern European (I forget which country) wanted to vote in his home country’s election without losing his American citizenship. As a result of a lawsuit, the courts ruled in his favor. The Jews took full advantage of this new “right”. As a result, we have forty or so congresscritters and senators who hold “dual nationality” with Israel. In addition, there are thousands of “dual nationality” influential “policy wonks” and others that are infecting MY country’s government that have no allegiance to the USA and have split loyalties, siding with Israel. In addition, there are many “dual nationality” Americans who are in Israel, who have enlisted in the IDF (Israel Defense Forces) in contravention of American law, but are never prosecuted…WHY?? Jews are almost non-existent in the American military, but Jew Americans are overrepresented in the IDF. It is long overdue to prohibit “dual citizenship” and to deport those who will not renounce their foreign citizenship.

          • EL ZORRO

            REMEMBER THIS…

            In 1492, Chemor, Chief Rabbi of Spain received the following reply from the Grand Sanhedrin (elders of Zion) to his plea for advice on how to deal with their threatened expulsion under Spanish Law; it illustrates well how the same ancient agenda was still being adhered to by the elect at this time:

            “Beloved brethren in Moses, we have received your letter in which you tell us of the anxieties and misfortunes which you are enduring. We are pierced by as great a pain to hear it as yourselves. The advice of the Grand Satraps and the Rabbis is the following:

            1. As for what you say that the King of Spain obliges you to become Christians: do it, since you cannot do otherwise.

            2. As for what you say about the command to despoil you of your property: make your sons merchants that they may despoil, little by little, the Christians of theirs.

            3. As for what you say about making attempts on your lives: make your sons doctors and apothecaries, that they may take away Christian’s lives.

            4. As for what you say of their destroying your synagogues: make your sons canons and clerics in order that they may destroy their churches.

            5. As for the other vexations you complain of: arrange that your sons become advocates and lawyers, and see that they always mix in affairs of State, that by putting Christians under your yoke you may dominate the world and be avenged on them.

            6. Do not swerve from this order that we give you, because you will find by experience that, humiliated as you are, you will reach the actuality of power.

            (Signed) Prince of the Jews of Constantinople”

            (Julio-Inigrez de Medrano—”La Silva Curiosa” 1608 my emphasis).

          • Frank Behrens

            Oh yeah…nice piece of typical antisemtic shit forgery a la

            The Protocols of the Elders of Zion
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

            For sure the stuff Nazis love.

            Maaaan, one can criticize the current politics of Israel (or any othe state) and with good reasons …but without such stupid garbage.

            Or where is that letter this Julio-Inigrez de Medrano refers to today?

          • EL ZORRO

            Wikipedia? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Who finance wikipedia?.

          • Jens Holm

            El ZERO wasnt it ?

          • Frank Behrens

            Hahahahhaha…errr…and who finances you? Or any of those antisemtic and “information” sites?

          • Moussa Saab

            I guess you are not familiar here, let me tell you.
            Most people here are OK with the Jewish religion, but are against the Zionists. If you do not know the difference between the two, then you should not be here in the first place.

          • Frank Behrens

            I find it interessting when people start to tell people , where they should be or not be, especially on a discussion side. My advice to you is: stop that ..that only leads to Kindergarten.
            I don´t care IF most people here are ok with jewish religion but are againt Zionism (why just we don´t say: politics of the current state of Israel)..that was not the issue.
            But when people start to refer to clear antisemitic garbage and/or use typical antisemitic stereotypes and prejeduces..I will call it antisemitism garbage

          • Nod

            Here is what I know, for fact. Your link is laughably ripped apart by its readers. Because of two things.

            1- We know ZIONIST Israel participated in 9/11,

            2- and we know Israel does genocide in Palestine against PALESTINIAN SEMITES. Given that many Zionists are not even Jewish, and that Judaism in Israel accepts converts who are not Jewish? I would say quite definitively that the most bloodthirsty anti Semites on the planet live in Israel….

            Most people with a 3 digit IQ understand the hazard of using unsubstantiated history to make an argument against fascist politics, be that in the USA, or in Israel. They also know the fact is everywhere, without the need for historical babble. Israel does Genocide, and was called out for war crimes.

            “The Tribunal is satisfied, beyond reasonable doubt, that the first defendant, (General) Amos Yaron, is guilty of crimes against humanity and genocide, and the second defendant, the State of Israel, is guilty of genocide.”

            Israel also sends weapons to Myanmar, for the genocide going on there against Muslims. I guess that ethnic cleansing is acceptable to the Zionists, home and abroad. And it has gone on, much to long, while people who object, are attacked by the gang of Zionists and the useful idiots who support them, in their shared quest for a globalist state. Too disgusting, any person could defend the scum that do this.

            Zionist Israel is funded by the USA because it provides the much needed muscle in the middle east for globalism. A great big aircraft carrier. And it will do the dirty work, that others wont touch.

            mass murdering pigs never have enough it seems.

          • Frank Behrens

            “Here is what I know, for fact. Your link is laughably ripped apart by its readers. Because of two things.”

            Uhm, sure, everyone has a right to his/her opinion…but not on facts.

            Give me a break…yeahyeah, I heard about those “9-11 was-a-inside-job” (poor al-Quaeda…know one wants to give them credit…)…and the sort of people who make up and believe that garbage.

            And your semantics I leave you…I refer to such definitions regarding anti-semitism (as terminus technicus) as most (sane) people do:

            “Antisemitism (also spelled anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews.[1][2][3] A person who holds such positions is called an antisemite. Antisemitism is generally considered to be a form of racism.[4][5]!”

            Man, I don´t get it…one can for sure criticise the politics of the STATE OF ISRAEL (got the difference) , their treatment of arabs or those ultra-orthodox -groups, who, like any other groups with a totalitarian ideology, are speaking, thinking and acting like facists.
            But people, like you Sir, who believe and use those century-old stereotyps of Jews and 19th. / early 20th antisemitic garbage are, by definition, antisemits

          • Nod

            what are you babbling about …LOL, I see a malfunctioning brain. Read before you pontificate bullsh!t as truth. I DO NOT accept the stupidity of racism, discrimination, hate and ignorance. We are ALL human. And I understand inequality is the root of all our problems.

            You, on the other hand, defend mass murdering governments doing mass murder on Muslims. You lie, deny fact, and support those same governments, making you the racist, making YOU the ANTI semite, and making you the psychopath.

          • Nod

            More flat earth logic Franky boy … I dont need to say 911 was an inside job. All I need to know is science, and that the official story is directly contrary to the science that I do understand. Fact is fact, I do not NEED to know motive, even though it is quite obvious. And nor do I need to know who the conspirators were, even though many of them were outed by their own lies, actions,and non actions.

            Science says dimmy, and all your babble will never change it.

            Common Franky, flag it again, but you cannot hide the FACTS.

            ”The only peer-reviewed papers that provide a physically plausible mechanism for collapse of WTC 1, 2, or 7 are papers that conclude with controlled demolition – a result consistent with the fact that in over 100 years, no high-rise steel frame building has ever collapsed from fire alone. “”
            Timothy E. Eastman, Ph.D., Physics Group Manager for Space Science Support
            Heliospheric Physics Laboratory NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

            ————————————–

            “The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center].”

            Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng – Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center. Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden. Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988).
            ———————————————

            “Serious technical investigations by experts seem to be lacking from the official explanations.”

            Larry L. Erickson, BS Aeronautical Eng, MS Aeronautical Eng, PhD Eng Mechanics – Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer and Research Scientist. Conducted research in the fields of structural dynamics, aerodynamics, aeroelasticity and flutter. Recipient of NASA’s Aerodynamics Division Researcher-of-the-Year Award. 33-year NASA career. Member, American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics.

            ————————————————————————–

            Science says…
            Law of thermo-dynamics
            “If you have a flame of 750 degrees, you can hold that flame under steel forever and you will NEVER reach a high enough temperature to bend steel, let alone melt it.”
            Robert Podolsky – Masters in theoretical physics, Physicist /engineer. Systems analyst, Air Force Avionics Lab, Coast Guard electronics
            —————————————————————–

            Law of aerodynamics
            “”I flew the two actual aircraft which were involved in 9/11; the Fight number 175 and Flight 93. I don’t believe it’s possible for, like I said, for a terrorist to train on a [Cessna] 172, then jump in a cockpit of a 757-767 class cockpit, and vertical navigate the aircraft, lateral navigate the aircraft, and fly the airplane at speeds exceeding it’s design limit speed by well over 100 knots, make high-speed high-banked turns, exceeding — pulling probably 5, 6, 7 G’s. The aircraft would literally fall out of the sky. I couldn’t do it and I’m absolutely positive they couldn’t do it.”
            Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. Retired commercial pilot. Flew for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Aircraft flown: Boeing 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777. 30,000+ total hours flown.
            ———————————————————–
            Law of motion/momentum
            Commander James Clow, MS, U.S. Coast Guard (ret) – Retired U.S. Coast Guard officer
            “No matter how one views the videos of the Towers and Building 7 collapsing, the laws of physics MUST hold true. If F=ma appears to have been violated (e.g., free-fall collapse of the buildings at nearly 9.8 m/sec/sec), then something is seriously amiss and one must start looking for the “other hand” hidden beneath the table to discover what is really happening”

          • Nod

            tell me Frank, how many Palestinian Semites has Zionist Israel murdered or displaced in their quest for blood, land, oil, and supremacy.

            Does it make me anti semetic to point that out I wonder.

            Does it make me “anti something else“, because I point out my country of birth does genocide on Muslims for globalism as well. Am I “anti Canadian“ then, because I point out that the politics of Canada is fascism not much different than Zionist fascism. Both concerned about furthering ambitions of the rich.

            Well, yes I guess it does, it makes me “anti stupid“. Because I would have to be a frikken idiot to think that what Canada did to Libya, USA did to Iraq, Libya, and Syria et al, and what Israel does to Palestine and Syria, is an expression of democracy and freedom.

            Money pôwer rules. No matter how many time the retards tell me otherwise.
            And it is the useful idiots in Israel, Canada, USA, France, et al, that allow the imperialism to continue, under the guise of freedom and democracy.

            Only an insane person, or a fool, blames Jews for the actions for the Zionist fascists who rule them. Same kind of fool hates on Americans, for the policies implemented and acted upon by the globalists and their American leadership.

            People are easily mind-washed stupid, with fear and loathing. No matter the religion.

          • Kell
          • Nod

            Right, and it is my understanding, that criticizing Americans can get you rendition-ed, and sent away to prison for life, without due process, lawyers, or visitors. Wonder how many already did.

            Once again, I am not enough of a fool to blame Jews for the actions of globalists. Too bad, it seems so many are.

          • Peter Bedijn

            Khazar Zionist (fake Jews)

          • Nod

            actually nope. The genetics have been confirmed. And that has nothing to do with the political Zionism in the state of Israel.

          • AlexanderAmproz

            To avoid any misunderstanding
            I am an Atheist laic pro Semites.

            Not only Hebrew are Son of Sem, Arabs too !
            “Peace on earth to men of good will,”

            The Dönmeh from Salonica funded “the young Turk”
            to destroy the Ottoman Empire to be able to get
            the Palestine.
            Ataturk their Leader did the Armenian Genocide…

            Dönmeh – Wikipedia
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dönmeh

          • Frank Behrens

            I am sorry, no relatives I know of in the Netherlands;)..Behrens (and variants) is a common surname in northern Germany /Netherlands and southern Scandinavia.

          • Kell
          • AlexanderAmproz

            The Cross was invented by the Romans to Torture
            the Slaves, its an horrible oppression Death signe
            to terrorise the slaves…
            The horizontal part of the Cross name is “trepalium”,
            for the Latin languages, it’s the “work” name origin,
            that why “Latin” peoples don’t like to work(lol)

            Compared to it the Protestant Huguenot cross
            is a charming “Dove of peace”,
            without any Death and oppression connection…

            If understanding French, there is an outstanding
            documentary about the Vatican, CIA, Mafia
            and Italian Government for giant money laundering’s
            to destabilize Eastern Europe thank’s Pope John Paul II
            Drug Lords/CIA connection is known since “ever”
            there you have the Vatican Church, Dirty money-CIA

            October 23 TV5 France at 00:50
            Ombres sur le Saint-Siège (52min)
            http://www.programme-tv.net/videos/bandes-annonces/63231-ombres-sur-le-saint-siege/

          • Peter Bedijn

            No antisemitic shit forgery but Khazar Zionist forgery!

          • Zaphod Braden

            First “Protocols”

          • Jens Holm

            Many countries in the world has dual citicenship as normal fare in many versions.

            I danes are having a baby in USA it automaticly get american citicensship(too).

            I an american have a baby here, it can ask for it as 18 years old and will 99% always get it(too).

          • Brother Ma

            So what? That is not point. When in gov you should only have country”s citizenship. No others!

          • AlexanderAmproz

            It’s true for the Imperialist Nationalist Warmonger Countries,
            not if you are a European
            with few different European Nationalities

            For the Europeans to be Nationalist is a War Hydra,
            and it’s what the US/NATO is trying to inject
            in the former Eastern Europe Countries with the hopes
            to provoque insane Wars with Russian.
            Thanks of the CIA manipulations, Ukraine is run by
            Nazi Corrupt Jews Plutocrats,
            Poland and Hungary becoming mad Catholic fundamentalists
            Rumania is run by Mossad,
            Baltic Countries and Scandinavia under grotesque heavy
            Anti-Russian US propaganda.

            US/NATO presence in Europe is wrong and tiring

            Since “ever”,
            Europe Future is in Russia,
            Russia Future is in Europe
            we are the same Cultural Family !

          • Frank Behrens

            No we are definitly NOT the same Cultural Family.
            I don´t see any common grounds with people who believe in the most primitive conspiracys and harbouring primitive predjeduces which one can describe as a madmen´s vision. You will find nearly exactly the same thoughts and world view written down in “Mein Kampf” …just…the thing with Europe`s future in Russia, the little Gefreite interpretated differently as you mean it^^..

          • AlexanderAmproz

            The Tsar wife were traditionally German Princess
            French and German families with Russian origins
            are uncountable, the Kremlin was built by Italian
            and Swiss architects.
            Francois Le Fort, the funder of the Russian Fleet was
            a Geneva citizen…
            The French intellectual were very present in St Petersburg
            the Russian Culture influences in Europe are very important

            From which bush are you ?
            I am too polite to answer you, just google
            or join Netanyahu and Trump !

          • Frank Behrens

            I never denied that russia (as well as other east euopean states and regions) are not culturally connected with the rest of europe. I was refering to such attitudes and prejeduces that YOU were showing here. These are frowned upon by most (educated) Europeans …of cause you will find such views in the far right (or far left) minded people (world wide).

            Btw. the USA is as well (as other regions like Australia, Canada etc., which were settled by mainly euopeans) closely connected (let alone how many millions of east europeans migrated to the US ) with Europe. And nearly half of all Jews (and jewish Israelis) are also europeans (or decendants of ) and thus is heavily influenced by european culture.
            So in which ways do you believe there should be a “special” (close cultural) conection between Russia and the rest of Europe ? The cultural conections between e.g. Russia is as strong to Germany , Middle to western or southern Europe as with the USA or even with Israel (heck, how many million Jews lived and still live in Russia ? How many Israelis are of russian descent ? Yes, you got it…they are your “brothers and sisters”…at least genetically)

            And rest assured: I am not from the Ruhrpott (which , by the way, does also have some nice places to present) or Hinterbayern :)

          • AlexanderAmproz

            Difficult to answer right away and it’s late.
            My Culture is Federalist and Democratic since centuries,
            diversity is a wealth. In my Home town 62% of the residents
            are foreigners from 195 Countries…
            I am used to have live and travel all around Europe and the
            rest of the World since decades, among the poorest
            and wealthiest.
            Ski hiking in Norway, sailing in Holland, scuba diving
            in the Philippines, museum tour and Historical site in
            the Capitals

            I feel to have a quiet strong European ID, and Russia
            belongs to it,
            Europe is one entity, notwithstanding I am a World citizen.
            Rightist or leftist didn’t have signification for me, as long as
            the priority is the peoples wealth fare and the Environment,
            Nationalism is unwelcome. I will favorise the Europe of the
            regions with a Denis de Rougemont approach.

            Ultra rightist in Switzerland is center right in France,
            center Swiss is leftist in the US, ultra leftist in Asia,
            Middle-East, Africa and South America…
            A “Normal” relationship with Russia looks essential for
            an harmonious European durable development.

            Switzerland is a small Europe since “ever”.
            Confetti States with different ID, languages, and religions
            joined each others with mutual agreement along Centuries,
            then should do the same with Russia, none hurry,
            step by step…

            Long ago I had very good times ridding horses during months
            in Ober Bayern and Hildesheim/Hanover
            Have a good night.

          • Nod

            “believe in the most primitive conspiracys“

            I don`t believe in conspiracies. I investigate them. It is my job. Belief has nothing to do with it. Belief is something used by stupid people as argument.

            History is built on conspiracies, and YOU have been mind washed by our globalist thought police, to ignore the real meaning of conspiracy, instead using the word as some form of derogation for those who speak about events that cause cognitive dissonance in the listener.. Truth hurts. It is easier to bury ones head up ones bum.

            How about you be more specific, about non nonsensical conspiracies, and perhaps I can help you figure out an understanding based on fact,.Before you do so, google “cognitive dissonance“ so you understand why the truth hurts so much.

            What I see Frank, is you using ad hom, in rebut to argument. A sure sign, that the other side won the debate.

          • Nod

            I dont do prejudice. It creates stupidity, hate, ignorance, and irrational thought..

            I dont do patriotism or nationalism. Divide an conquer…

            I dont do religion. Imagine some Muslims sexually mutilating women for religion, while some Christians and some Jews sexually mutilate men for religion. Imagine all those Christian priests diddling boys, because of irrational rules in religion that deny them sexual release with women. Denies us sexual freedom to choose.

            All pursuant rules in a fairy tale called God.

            I don`t do culture. Culture is the most pervasive and insidious form of mind washing and thought control. Takes away freedom to think, freedom to choose. Culture, is anti think and often anti truth, and simply unnecessary. It is also a reinforcement of, and capitalization on, a human biological condition that needs to distinguish between “us“ and `them.

            I dont do beLIEf, because it is usually non factual AND unbeLIEvable. Belief creates ignorance. BeLIEf is tied to ego, most often denying a person the chance to improve upon what they think they know.

            ““There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
            Isaac Asimov

            I do however, like to think. And always welcome a chance to improve my understandings. Feel free.

          • Frank Behrens

            Ugh, do you really think that you are the first conspiracy theorist one could encounter who thinks he has “the truth” ? That`s the very nature of an conspiracy theorist” . The net is full of those. And a sure sign is this disgusting whiny ad hominem “argument” (poor fellow…no one wants to believe your “facts”..they are all brain-washed ).Conspiracy theories have nothing to do with “facts”…it is a (your) state of mind (prejudices) and thus do HAVE to do with YOU.
            Yeah, take your victory and life long and prosper…

          • GIVVO6_B

            The term “conspiracy theory” was invented by the CIA in an attempt to demonize anyone who refused to believe the nonsense of the “Warren Commission”. We are supposed to listen to US lies when they tell us “a very ill man sitting in an Afghan cave was able to outwit the USAF and fool NORAD and get people with no experience as pilots to fly into 2 towers and bring down 3”.
            The conspiracies and the conspiracy theories all come from the US Government. So how did building 7 collapse? The Yankee conspiracy theory does not cover that one.

          • Frank Behrens

            Yeahyeah…heard about this CIA…a lot. Marvelous to enigmatic what this CIA all did and invented. Now they even invented the term “conspiracy theory” (Uhm I wonder why you guys never give any sources for your (wild) claims)….but sorry the term was known since 1909 .

            “The Oxford English Dictionary defines conspiracy theory as “the theory that an event or phenomenon occurs as a result of a conspiracy between interested parties; spec.
            a belief that some covert but influential agency (typically political
            in motivation and oppressive in intent) is responsible for an
            unexplained event”. It cites a 1909 article in The American Historical Review as the earliest usage example.[5][6] The word “conspiracy” derives from the Latin con- (“with, together”) and spirare (“to breathe”).”

            Lance deHaven-Smith has similarly suggested that the term was deployed in the 1960s by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to discredit John F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories.[8]
            Robert Blaskiewicz rejects such claims, asserting instead that the term
            has always been derogatory and pointing to examples demonstrating that
            this has been so since the nineteenth century.[9][10]

          • Nod

            Nor does someone like Frank. He will ignore that pertinent fact, and keep on running the mouth with ignorance, his only intent to convert people from reason, to anti science idiocy.================================================

            We could also listen to the firefighters who attended that day, if we were too lazy to learn science. You see frank, the firefighters understand how science works too.

            Firefighters for 9/11 truth.
            “”However, we do know via established empirical evidence that a series of observable events took place that can be analyzed. If we learn the temperatures at which steel melts and at which jet fuel burns we can then determine whether burning jet fuel can melt steel. Proof of evidence can and should preclude personal opinions and lead us to logically necessary conclusions….`

            …………..A fair examination of the evidence establishes unequivocally that 3 skyscrapers collapsed as the direct and proximate result of planned demolition and that the official explanation is literally physically impossible and a blatant contradiction of established laws of science and nature.”

            “We are asked to believe that on that day three structural steel buildings, which have never before in history collapsed because of fire, fell neatly into their basements at the speed of gravity, their concrete reduced to dust. We are asked to believe that jet fuel (kerosene) can melt steel. … We are asked to believe that the steel and titanium components of an aircraft that supposedly hit the Pentagon “evaporated”.
            Lt. Vodvarka

            “ Tower #7 by itself is the “smoking gun”. Not hit by an aircraft, with only a few relatively small fires, it came down in a classic crimp and implosion, going straight into its basement, something only very precise demolition can accomplish. The 9-11 Commission didn’t even mention it, and F.E.M.A. actually stated they DIDN’T KNOW WHY IT COLLAPSED “

            Lt. Vodvarka served on FDNY Ladder Co 26, Rescue Co. 3, Rescue Co. 1, Engine Co. 92, Ladder 82 and Ladder 101.

            firefightersfor911truthDOTorg/

            end of story. I would like Frank to bring some evidence, but he wont, because he has none.

            ev•i•dence
            1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment:
            2. Something indicative; an outward sign:
            3. Law Documentary or oral statements/material objects admissible as testimony in a court.
            1. To indicate clearly; exemplify or prove.

          • Nod

            Imagine that, Jesus Christ responsible for the genocide done on Semites, by Zionists, in Israel occupied Palestine.

          • Zaphod Braden

            pseudo-christian”zionists” really.

          • Nod

            same crap, different pile IMO.

        • Attrition47

          It’s the other way round; blackmail by zionist scum is used as a get out of gaol free card. American Caesar and his cronies can blame the contractor and pretend that people who object are antisemites. Simples

          • AlexanderAmproz

            Arab are Son of Sem, Arab are Semites
            Zionism is just the ugliest form of Colonialism,
            a bogus Theocratic Colonialism

          • Real Anti-Racist Action

            I agree with all, except that hard evidence proves that no more then 70,000 – 150,000 Jewish civilians died in the war.
            And Germans are ethnic-Japethites.
            You have…
            Japethites
            Shemites
            Hamites

            Those are the only three father races on the earth.
            Everyone belongs to one of those three racial groups.

          • AlexanderAmproz

            Apparently all European are from Africa,
            Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens mix together
            at the end of the Neandertal times…

        • Jens Holm

          You make that lobbyism as something its not. All in united states are made by lobbyism down to dental care and support for canser treatments.

          • AlexanderAmproz

            The Philippines haven’t a different Gangs “Lobbyism”
            but with more than disastrous Plundering results,
            inherited from the backward US Cow-Boys

      • Jens Holm

        You dont get it. Its a normal routine and in their budget, so they dont think about it. If it becomes to war or Israel get lacks, its also a roiutine to give them extra even the kind and how is carefully debatet

    • Jens Holm

      Fine way of testing them being not perfect yet even kind of old.

    • Justin

      And all the other customers such as Australia, UK, Canada etc etc cover these costs in their purchases!
      Fuckin Israel! Such cunts!

    • Joe

      Very likely Russia s400 provided the location, the s200 just fired in that direction. Heat seekers took over.

    • hooss mann

      hahahahaha not only do they get them for free, but they are even given bribes for the honor that they make to the manufacturer and the usa, to accept their planees. hahahahaha

    • des111168

      Basically, yeah. A fairly rich country (Intel developed it’s mobile chip tech there and fabs a lot of chips there), their military budget basically still comes from the US because of the Camp David Accords treaty. We are, more or less, paying both Israel and Egypt billions of dollars each every year not to kill each other.

    • Ouija1210

      Exactly I was wondering where is this powerful Israeli’i economy?? they produce nothing, they have little oil or gas, they have no massive landmass no economy nothing??? where is the money for 100 million dollar jets? they are buying 50 in total? the whole deal including spare parts, training, missiles, etc would cost over 5-8billion dollar at least???

  • Lone Wolf

    I cannot find any Israel news report of F-35 bird strike at all … can someone help me pls …

  • Jan Sobieski

    It would be a really great news, but I can’t find any source about IAF F-35 “bird strike”.

  • John

    The F-35 is a case of massive theft committed on the citizens of the US and any other country that buys them. So far, it is a major technological screw up for the US and is setting them behind decades in terms of effective fighter development. So far, and please pardon the language, it is the biggest cluster fuck I have ever seen coming out of the DoD.

    • zman

      That’s why I always refer to it as an F-35CF.

      • John

        A perfect designation. :P

  • Antikapitalista

    The Israelis must lie because otherwise the whole U.S. military-mafia racket would fall apart… and, as a consequence, Israel would no longer receive such massive discounts.

  • Enkidu

    Either way it’s a testament to how shit the F-35 is. If it was downed by a 50 year old missile it’s a shit plane, if it was downed because of a freaking bird it’s also shit. I just don’t know which alternative makes it look worse to be honest

    • G Jetson

      Yes, correct – if it was the case that a $400 Billion dollar program can not handle bird collision, what is the future for this very expensive plane.

      LOL

      Trash can, I say.

      • AlexanderAmproz

        Do these 400 Billions is the money missing
        to improve the US Social Services to a standard level ?

        • Garga

          I believe you are talking about that $20 trillions.

          • AlexanderAmproz

            700 yearly Billions Army wasted budget
            and no money to stop the forest fire at home !

            US/Zionists are Dumb Donkeys Crooks !

          • Bru

            it was cautiously restimated to have cost 1400 billions at the of end 2016. It sucks money faster than a black hole I woukd be surprised if it reaches 20 trillions… What a record breaking impressive plane, burns hundreds of billions faster than one can count…

          • Garga

            It’s not limited just to JSF program.
            They actively waste money on all kinds of military programs without a viable output, to prevent spending it on the things Americans need the most, like infrastructure, health and education.

          • Nigel Maund

            Right on the money! Great comment! The Military Industrial Complex reigns supreme in the US of A and can quite literally get away with anything at the tax payers expense – such is the extreme level of corruption in the USA. The US is not Governed on behalf of the people but on behalf of the vested interests. War is the biggest business in the US by a large margin followed by rapacious banking and purveying endless debt to the precariat.

          • Vince Dhimos

            This is why Russia is selling record amounts of arms. Their stuff works and is cheaper. US wars cost the public ungodly amounts. Russian wars are advertizing costs.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            60 000 billion trillion

          • Garga

            That’s 60 gazillion.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            or 6 gargallion :)

          • Charlie rad

            Ukraine debt . They never pay anyone back. Beg beg & beg. Losers

          • Patrick Jann

            haha i love how you roast this stupid troll :D keep on

          • Charlie rad

            No , $22 Trillion + was stolen by corrupt OBAMA-DEMS

          • Garga

            But the corruption is not limited just to Dems, is it?

          • AlexanderAmproz

            The US Bipartisan rearmament against Russia

            by Manlio Dinucci

            The United States reliving the same situation it found itself in 1995: the White House is trying to reduce military expenditure while Congress is trying to increase it. Once, Bill Clinton was a man of peace and the warmongers were the Republicans and some Democrats. Today, the tables have turned. Donald Trump is now the man of peace and those stirring up war are the Democrats with some Republicans.

            Every day the Democrats attack the Republican Trump for his war-mongering statements. Yet they have got together with the Republicans in the Senate and voted to increase the Pentagon’s budget to 700 billion dollars in 2018. This is 60 billion more than what Trump had actually requested. If you add the 186 billion per year for veterans and other heads, the US’s total military expenditure jumps to around 1,000 billion. This is a quarter of the federal budget.

            The unanimous vote of the Senate Armed Services Committee (“the Committee”) formed of 14 Republican Senators and 13 Democrats is decisive. The Committee emphasises that “the United States must strengthen its deterrence against Russian aggression. Russia continues to occupy Crimea, destabilize Ukraine, threaten our NATO allies, violate the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, and bolster the Assad regime in Syria.”

            Furthermore, the Committee accuses Russia of leading “an unparalleled attack on our core interests and values”, in particular through “an active, purposeful campaign to undermine the integrity of American democracy.”

            A true and proper declaration of war, by which the bipartisan alliance motivates empowering the entire war machine. These are some of the heads of expenditure in fiscal year 2018 (which started on 1 October 2017):

            • 10.6 billion dollars to purchase 94 F-35 bomber fighters; 24 more F-35s than the Trump Administration requested;

            • 17 billion for an “anti-missile shield” and military activities in space; 1.5 billion more than the figure requested by the Administration;

            • 25 billion to build another 13 war ships – 5 billion more than what the Administration requested.

            The Budget for 2018 is 700 billion. 640 billion is principally to buy new arms and to maintain military personnel (now 141 billion per annum following an increase in their pay). The remaining 60 billion then goes towards military operations in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Furthermore, 1.8 billion is allocated to training and fitting out armed formations under US command in Syria and Iraq, and 4.9 billion for the “Afghanistan Security Forces Fund”. For the “Initiative for European Reassurance”, that the Obama Administration launched in 2014 following “resurging Russian aggression in Ukraine”, 4.6 billion is allocated in 2018: this serves to grow the presence of US armoured forces and the “strategic advanced positioning” of US arms in Europe. Furthermore, 500 million dollars has been earmarked to provide “lethal assistance” (i.e. arms) to Ukraine.

            The increase in the Pentagon’s budget tracks that of other members of the US-led Nato. One of these Nato members is Italy whose military expenditure will have to increase from 70 million euro per day (the current expenditure) to 100 million euro per day. At the same time, the Pentagon’s budget presents what is being prepared for Italy. Among the heads of minor expenses, but not for this reason less important, is 27 million dollars for the Aviano base; more evidence that it continues its empowering in light of the installation of the new B61-12 nuclear bombs, and 65 million for a research and development programme for “a new missile with land base of intermediate range to begin to reduce the capacity threshold triggered by Russian violation of the INF treaty”. In other words, the United States’ agenda includes lining up in Europe nuclear missiles like the Pershing 2 and the Cruise missiles of the eighties. At that time, the latter also stationed in Comiso, Italy.

            So this is what the US Senate is announcing, speaking through the unanimous bipartisan vote of its Armed Services Committee.

            Manlio Dinucci
            http://www.voltairenet.org/article198438.html

      • Bru

        If I remenber correctly, they reestimated the cost around the beginning of the year with an independent report, at 1400 billions,
        quite some money for a flying pig.

      • Solomon Krupacek

        you can develope something batter, whitetrash

        • Bob

          ‘…whitetrash…’?! Come now, are you not above sinking to this level?

          • Charlie rad

            this trolls real name is “Abdullah Goatlover”. His new ISIS name. Ukraine’s best ally.

          • BL

            He’s not Ukrainian or ISIS, he’s a kike Jew

        • Virgil Cane

          I had some respect for your insights in the past, now with all your moronic insults im seeing youre probably just copy/pasting things on here when you do post things of interest…but sadly you boil down to being just another SF fool who uses the comment section to put down others in hopes you feel better about yourself.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            i put down those, who put down others

          • Virgil Cane

            he didnt put down others, you failed to correctly read his use of punctuation.

          • Charlie rad

            looking in the mirror every morning makes you so hateful a lizard boy doesn’t it ? it’s not our fault. Deal with it.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            i never make copy/paste, bro

      • Did all $400bn go to that plane or was it a useful line item to hide other line items?

      • IH8Lies

        To big to fail.
        LOL

    • Perhaps SBIEDs (B, being bird) are the future of asymmetrical warfare?:D

      • Prince Teutonic

        Yeah all we need now are Jihadi birds…

      • Valery Grigoryev

        No. Invisible birds only!

      • Moussa Saab

        Funniest comment I have read today!

    • John Whitehot

      It doesn’t matter if it’s 50 years old, the S-200 has an impressive kinematic profile and it’s nonetheless an advanced weapon.

      People tends to believe to the bs western milprop disseminates where everything is a game of electronic,jammers and so on.

      It’s mostly untrue: endgame results in the skies are still dependent on kinematics like in the 60ies.

      Under that perspective, an old F-104 Starfighter diving at mach 2 is a harder target than a F-35 flying slow and high.

      • Enkidu

        Still, you would think a brand new, state-of-the-art plane in 2017 would be able to cope with 50 year old technology, right?

        • Solomon Krupacek

          he is crazy

          • Charlie rad

            Ultra cry baby Ukraine wimp

        • Turbofan

          ” state-of-the-art plane”…Hmmmmm
          Are you aware of the list of problems that plane has?

          • Solomon Krupacek

            turbotroll

          • Charlie rad

            Ukraine sore loser

          • FlorianGeyer

            Its Modern Art Turbofan. A few cans of paint chucked at a canvas by drug addicts :)

        • Real Anti-Racist Action

          Regular F-15’s beat past the S-200 system in Syria and Lebanon all of the time.
          Perhaps Iran secretly upgraded the S-200 system and radars.
          That is the most likely way that the so called ‘S-200’ system would be able to accomplish anything against the superior-Israelis.

          • Eric Holt

            Its a bit hard to believe Syria shot and damaged an f35 with an s200 AA system when Israel still isn´t using them operationally yet. They didnt come with systems and Israel is still working on those to prepare them for patrols. However, Israeli f35´s wont be ready until mid 2018. Syria just mad as shiite lol :P

          • Steve Bell

            Hmmm… it didn’t come with “systems”, won’t be ready until mid 2018 but was damaged by birds during a training flight. Interesting… next joke, please.

          • zencowboy61

            russia upgraded the system 2 months ago for the syrians The Israeli waited to be painted by the radar to get the location of the unit then returned and attacked it..it could have been a F 35 but i don’t believe they would use such a plane on a SA 5 battery…

          • wwinsti

            This post is fairly correct. It is entirely possible that the Syrians/Russians knee the f35 would have to come out and play eventually, and laid a trap. You’ll recall the news several months ago, were the Russians stated they had integrated their air defenses with the Syrians? The missile may have come from an s200, but it wouldn’t surprise me if a more modern system were guiding it.

        • Jens Holm

          You expect the enemy has all modern technology. They mainly havnt. Often its also so, that old stuff still can cover corners well even You have to buy something else.

          We still only have F16 and in 3 versions all are upgraded as they can. They are fine as long as the enemy hasnt got better ones or the enemy hasnt antiarcraft of first class.

          So if Putin would like to take the rest of Europe we assume americans have modern stuff to take the russian modern stuff away.

        • Brandmand for Bidermeyer

          Over Yoguslavia a top notch F-117 was shot down with an anciant sovjet S-125 (NATO sa-3 Goa). The S-125 is a heavy sam layed out to shout down B-29 and B-52. But anciant missiles can also hit an incausious fighter bomber.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown

      • Solomon Krupacek

        bullshit

        • Charlie rad

          your breakfast. Ukraine economy. manure farming ?

          • Valery Grigoryev

            You are foolish as a shit. Даже не понимаешь, о чём речь, и кто есть кто. Не позорься, болван!

      • Bob

        Indeed – an older SAM like S-200 can still have major impact on modern air-frames via basic proximity explosion – showering a fuselage with shrapnel.

      • Eric Holt

        And you tend to forget how simple it is for a plane to take out an anti aircraft missile battery. As is what happened. What, didn´t the battery see the missiles incoming. lol. That´ s kinetic for you. To every action is a reaction. Israel just showed Russia that nothing is impervious to its tech if it wants it that way. The thing about AA missiles, they shoot planes out of the air but are fugged when planes retaliate lol. Makes your drivel just so much anti western dribble. Isn´t satélite controlled missiles wonderful hah!

        • John Whitehot

          “satelite controlled missiles”?
          pity that israelis said they used bombs.

          but no wonder people like you believe everything they say.

          come back when you have a clue about what you’re talking about.

        • PJ London

          The S200 is 50 years old (1966), it is cheap and plentiful. The F35 is state-of-the-art ‘stealth’ and is nailed by a 50 year old!
          The retaliation is a joke. AA batteries have always been vulnerable, that is why they are dispersed and protected.There is no evidence that the AA facility was in any way compromised. Fighters have for 50 years been trying to get the AA to light them up so that the fighter can target them. The chances are that they are mobile and capable of significant misdirection technology. In any event, the Russians and Syrians welcome the opportunity to observe IDF – USAF tactics and capabilities.
          AA batteries usually have the control and command well away from the Radar units and launch platforms.
          So to weigh up 1 x F35 v’s 1 x S200 which would you rather lose?
          In the words of the immortal Albright, ‘… we think the price is worth it.’

      • zencowboy61

        yes the nighthawk that was downed in the bosnian war put a end to the Us stealth BS facade…heck the B2 cant even fly in the rain it is shrink wrapped when not in use.

    • Solomon Krupacek

      your 1st sentence is in opposite to the second one.

    • Valery Grigoryev

      1. It was not ‘downed’. Where did you find out anything about downing?
      2. If it was actually hited by S200 missile, it would be not damaged but totally destroyed. While it is not.
      So, keep your wishful thinking.

      • Virgil Cane

        Your presentation of “fact” 1 and “fact” 2 make me laugh pretty hard. You did read what you wrote, right?

        • Solomon Krupacek

          how old are you?

        • Valery Grigoryev

          Of course.
          May be you’ll share with me your reasons?

      • Brandmand for Bidermeyer

        The warhead of the S-200 is a fragmentary warhead – it shoots fragments out in all directions. It sounds reasoble that one or a few fragments have caused destruction to parts of the F-35

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-200_(missile)

    • Brother Ma

      Israel is lying. They said it was a stork two weeks ago.rubbish! Storks only spend one night in israel when flying away in autumn.
      http://blog.eteacherhebrew.com/traveling-in-israel/stork-migrating-south-sign-of-autumn-in-israel/

      So lets increase it to one week for fun. Stork strike still happened 1.five months too late is we believe what israel airforce says!

      • FlorianGeyer

        It was a Parrot that got lost. I know that because after the collision with the F 35 the Parrot came home and told me.
        He squawked ” I knew it was an F35, I saw it a mile away. Did the pilot think I was invisible or something ? “

    • Dragon029

      The F-35 wasn’t downed, it landed safely and is being inspected for damage; the exact same process if this were to happen to any other aircraft.

    • Andrew

      The Serbians shot down an F-117 with an S-125 back in 1999. So an S-200 damaging a F-35 in 2017 should be possible.

    • Thegr8rambino

      haha so true

    • Eric Holt

      Its testament to how silly people are to believe stories from Syria saving face. Nothing was said about a Syrian hit until after 24 hours and Russia had probably already torn them a second acehole for shooting and missing, making their system obsolete. Its all face saving. Syria tried to be smart aces and in stead…. as per usual … came up covered in shiite! As for birds downing planes, there is no plane in the world that is not susceptible to bird strike.

    • ZioFascist

      most likely it got hit by an s400

    • Jens Holm

      It wasnt downed. It wasnt by a S200 and even today S200 is a very good and relevent missile.

    • Solomon Krupacek

      all stupid people are in one list, who upvoted your comment :DDDDD

  • AI

    If the F-35 that was shot is anything like the one in the picture, I’m not surprised. Those huge external fuel tanks and hardpoints, presumably loaded in that flight, make the plane’s stealth capabilities useless. An F-35 in “true” stealth has only its internal weapons bay loaded.

    • Garga

      Teehee! It doesn’t have room inside it’s belly because of the “VTOL” system, and side-belly bays get too hot and need to be opened in flight. It’s range is also s#it, Hence external fuel tanks and pylons.

      They used to make fun of Iran’s RQ-170 copy, which showcased by 4 missiles attached to it’s underside.

      • John Whitehot

        i thought Israel bought the A variant, the one without VTOL?

        • Jan Sobieski

          Yes, the Israeli F-35 are A, conventional take-off and landing, not B, the VTOL variant.

        • Garga

          I don’t know about that, but all variants have the guts high temperature issue.

          • as

            Even f22 has the same problem.

          • AI

            That problem with the internal bay overheating only occurs when taxiing or flying slow, low and with a high ambient temperature apparently, so in flight it can keep the bay closed, and John and Jan are right, the Israeli F-35s are the A version an also carry some extra niceties developed by Israel

          • Brother Ma

            So the f35 cant work in middle east because it is too hot and has to fly so fast and so high it cant shoot or bomb anything! Good luck in dogfights!

          • AI

            The whole point of the F-35 is not to engage in a dogfight. And by low and slow I mean take off speeds, and if you are flying that slow on a dogfight, it means that you have expended practically all your energy and the plane is done for.

      • Ronald

        Who made fun of Iran’s “LIghtning Bolt” , only the US who were really crying because they gave them 35 years of R n D . Didn’t they also make a smaller or larger version ?

        • Garga

          I’m talking about this:
          https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/New-Iranian-drone-copy-RQ-170.jpg
          Which they made fun of, and said those missiles defeat the purpose of a stealth bird.

          They also made fun of Qaher313, every single step.
          I still remember the face of the “expert” claiming not even one of Iran’s F-14 fleet will be fly worthy past 2005.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            fake model

          • Garga

            You forgot to mention cardboard.

            Solly, you are becoming oblivious. I’m worried.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            i knew, the servant will complete my comment :)

          • Garga

            Now that you know, I prescribe Leafy green vegetables, Salmon and other cold-water fish, Berries and dark-skinned fruits and Extra virgin olive oil, to boost your memory.

            If they didn’t help, try Donepezil and Rivastigmine.
            Give me your age, gender, height and weight to estimate the dosage. If you can remember them, tell me your bank account and social security numbers too!

          • Solomon Krupacek

            my memory is brilliant. i only check, whether the servant is concentrating? :)

            better tell me, what is A garga?

          • Garga

            I sell this knowledge.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            so, you are jewish capitalist.

          • Garga

            I just [robbing palms furiously] ask for a “fair” price… Let me feel my nose… Oy vey!

            I’m also a racist and an anti-Semite, Didn’t you know?

          • Ronald

            You are not reading between the lines . The US is trying to hide their fear .
            Persians not only were able to reverse engineer it , but they even were able to redesign it ( larger ) to be able to carry a payload . They are terrified . Those baby’s could be pumped out cheaply in such numbers that no AA could stop them . No Fear , with the RQ 170’s recon , and armed , the F-14 is just ego .

          • Ronald

            @Garga
            Isn’t it a beauty . If I remember correctly , shown is the slightly larger version . You are not reading between the lines .
            Americans are terrified , not only did the Iranians back engineer the US drone , but improved upon it by building a larger version that can be armed ! Creating pockets in the wing/body to hold the armaments is just a little more R n D .
            These units are small and cheap enough to be mass produced , with that , the ability to overcome any AA .
            Qaher313 , F – 14 , both pale compared to the “Lightning Bolt” .

      • SCan

        Yes! That’s why the F-35 crap is called “hot turkey”: it warms up like hell and flies as well as a turkey.

  • as

    It’s true it was defeated by bird (lol). On the other hand targeting and destroying S200 sam site is very easy from long range.

  • RichardD

    It wasn’t that long ago that Syria wasn’t shooting at Israeli aircraft engaged in aggression against it. Syria is now in a stronger position and is closing it’s airspace to Israeli violations. That’s a good thing and will increase as the war completes and the Syrian government military coalition, with conventional and nuclear military superiority, can turn it’s attention to the occupied Golan and other Israeli UN and other international law violations.

  • John Whitehot

    I find it hard to believe that the IAF used bombs to disable a SAM battery.
    It’s not consistent with the scenario depicted and it would mean that almost they flown over the target.

    although there are glide bombs that can be launched at several kilometers of distance, they’d need some preparation at the least, it isn’t consisting with a sudden threat appearance and reaction.

    the IAF story does not add up, although I would exercise caution in asserting that F-35 were involved.

    • Stein

      Correct, story goes they are barred from Syrian airspace and threatened in Lebanon so they use artillery, advanced missiles that cannot be taken down by any AAdefence.

    • Stein

      Also Israel says that the battery hit was a Strela battery.

    • electron

      250 lbs Spice glide bombs used by IAF have a 100 km range. Before posting, at least try to be aware of the obvious.

    • χρηστος

      ‘Arrow anti-missile system’ used……not a bomb …a missile that locks on the radar and destroys it

    • Brad Isherwood

      We are back to the question why Syria point defence is not knocking down these stand off attacks.
      Especially Damascus area…..no excuse….none!
      Pantsir,TOR M and other systems can take down stand off attack.
      Russian radar has the read and lead time to direct these defences to attack.
      Less than 2 minutes warning is ballpark for these systems to go hot and read the incoming
      And react.

      I understand Putin is playing things long…… in this malevolent Masonic game.
      Israel gets away with way to much IMO…
      Be great to see Putin humble Netanyahu .

  • The Bandalar

    Yet another hint that the F-35 is a massive disappointment. It’s a jack of all trades – best at nothing. Presumably an S-300 or S-400 will perform even better against an F-35.

    • John Whitehot

      really. what makes you think that : )

      • as

        The data submitted to internet of things. If you want to troll using other ID you need to do better to hide it.

  • Ozy Miani

    Both planes in the picture wear the same id mark (267). Your photoshop skills need some honing, dude…
    Is the rest of the story as accurate as the picture?

    • Dear friend, this is an illustrative image because the IDF has not released photos of the bird strike.

  • Tiresia Branding

    when russians come in Syria they modernize old syrian air defense systems, and S200 can hit an Israeli F35 because of integration in the Russian radar system. More suggestive

    • Solomon Krupacek

      especially, when russians authorize all israeli attacks

      https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/israel-notified-russia-bombing-syria/

      • Turbofan

        The deliberate use of the word “authorize” is pathetic..The Russians are INFORMED..look up the meaning of the 2 words

        • Solomon Krupacek

          and agreed

          • Turbofan

            again look up the meaning of agreed and informed..I know you dont quit understand any language but these are simple words

          • Solomon Krupacek

            russia could disagree. did it? silence is agree.

            i am waiting on your answer to birdstrikes, sillyboy!

          • Turbofan

            And you know that Russia agreed how exactly? Endless assumptions from a known troll.Russia is in Syria at the behest of the Syrian government to fight terrorism..NOT Israel..Syria is a sovereign country and Russia unlike the sh*thole where you come from respects Syrian sovereignty..

            As for you answer To birdstrike I responded to the insanity above..

          • Solomon Krupacek

            As for you answer To birdstrike I responded to the insanity above

            insanity is your answer, idiot :DDD

          • Turbofan

            Pathetic and emotional..Get a tampon you Hungarian filth

          • Solomon Krupacek

            turbotrrrroooollll

          • BL

            For god’s sake he’s not “Hungarian”. How hard is it for you guys to figure out this Israeli kike Jew rodent scum shill?

          • electron

            It is in Syria for strategic purposes of efficiently helping defeat extremist militants; making the region more stable; showcasing capabilities; and ultimately ensuring an asymmetric military leverage in case of any “hot emergency”.

            It is clearly taking the role of a balancing catalyst, allowing opposing forces to exhaust & keep each other busy, while it simply nudges the general course of events in one direction or another.

          • Tiresia Branding

            the zionists(like you) want a criminal global war, Russia want the world to know that zionists(like you) want a criminal global war… just exposing the shit of human kind to human kind, an hygienic question

      • Turbofan

        you hatred of the SAA ,the legitimate Syrian government and Russians is well known.However on multiple occasions here you have suggested that the Russians shoot down Israeli aircraft over Syria.Such an act can only complicate the real fight in Syria which is against ISIS and AQ. This begs the question..On whose payroll are you on? Troll

    • Brad Isherwood

      Actually……Syria’s Airforce defence reaction is complete shit! ..
      Russia has not stepped up to fix the problem nor bring Syria’s air defence to a level which Israel
      Respects.
      Syria has numerous Mobile BUK M2 Series…if positioned near Golan/Bekka region could get lots of missiles up which are tracking fragmentation and bound to shred an IAF – F 16,F 15 or F 35.
      Syria has numerous point defence systems such as Pantsir, TOR M, others.
      Yet they never can protect a obvious Zionist target like Damascus area from cruise missile and other stand off attack.

      The systems work…
      Russia Radar sees everything ….no way Israel Saunters over The Lebanon to throw knives at Syria without Russia see this way before the attack occurs.

      When was the last time you heard/read Putin tell Israel /Netanyahu to bugger off and leave Syria alone….or Else?

      Syria gonna suffer long if Russia keeps holding the damned door open for Israel to rush in.

      • Tiresia Branding

        try to think… zionist/neocon problem is not just local Israeli problem, but a global problem. Netanyahu try to ignite a situation can save their asses, Russia(and allies) know this game and avoid to play. Russia want to win THE war, not A war. And the battles are political, diplomatical, informational, economical, financial, monetary, energetic and so on. Are not just missiles that can save the world

        • Brad Isherwood

          Years ago…..I used to believe Putin was anti** Masonic,Globalism, Zionism.
          Research has revealed that Rich Jewish Oligarchs and the Chabad Lubavitch cult
          Putin Putin in power
          Russia is still connected to Rothschilds Central Banking.
          Putin Ovey’s every demand made by Netanyahu vs Syria and Iran.
          Note*….Israel is sitting on 20% more of Syria’s Golan since the Syrian conflict began.
          The Safe zone orchestrated by Russia leaves Israel with more illegal territory .
          Did Putin/Lavrov tell Israel to leave and return to previous Golan border before the conflict?
          UNSCRS demand Israel leave and return Golan to Syria…does Putin press this point?
          Israel got a complete pass….. while Syria got slaughtered.
          Putin made deals with Erdogan and the Miserable House of Saud,…who were/are,
          Murderers in Syria.
          It’s my opinion Putin’s agenda is that No One**…is getting any pipelines thru Syria.
          Thus….Putin is in the Oil /Nat gas driver seat.
          Donbass gets the living crap kicked out of it by that fat Ukrainian idiot leader.
          Serbs understand what Hope in Russia equals.

          Yes….Putin is out playing the US, the Dam Jews and the treacherous Turk,Kurd,Saudi.

          It’s painfull to watch however…..so many people getting beat up and killed while Bullies
          And gangsters run the table

  • Jason H. Smith

    From what I can make out, the bird strike was mentioned in the F-15.net website…

    An Israeli stealth aircraft of the F-35 (Adir), considered to be the most advanced in the world, was hit two weeks ago during a bird-training exercise – this was reported for the first time in the program “Seven Current” here 11. There were no casualties in the incident and the pilot managed to land the The plane is safe. However, the plane is grounded since the incident and it is unclear when it will resume activity – if at all.

    The Air Force fears that despite the planned re-use of the evaporator, it is not clear whether it will retain its evasive ability. The IDF confirmed the details and said that at no stage was life threatening to the pilot and are now awaiting the opinion of Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the plane, regarding the extent of the damage caused to it.

    Today, the Air Force has seven huge planes, each costing $ 110 million. In August, a deal was completed for the purchase of another 17 such aircraft for the Israeli Air Force, and in total, 50 such aircraft will be served in two pilots. The total amount of the deal to purchase the 50 aircraft is estimated at seven billion dollars.

    The IDF Spokesperson’s Office stated: “These allegations are incorrect. In preparation for a routine landing of the F-35, two injuries were found in the fuselage following a collision with the birds. The plane made a normal landing at the base and was sent to the usual maintenance treatment following such injuries. The plane will be used and will return for flight in the coming days. ”

    “In terms of damage to a bird, there is no difference between hitting 35 or any other aircraft – the risk is the same risk,” said Neri Yarkoni, a reserve colonel in the reserves. “What you have to do is simply not meet them, you can keep them away from the takeoff and landings, and the paths of bird migration are pretty constant,” he said.

  • Bru

    the Syrian army has air superiority with the best and ultra -cheap top air weapons against Israeli F-35 : birds! They are too small to be hit by flying pigs F-35 but can hit and incapacitate them!

    This made my day…

    • Tiresia Branding

      two missiles from an F/A 18 to shot down an old helpless syrian SU-22. And when russians promise retaliation… no more “accidents”. 53 Tomahawks to a sigle site go out-of-order and make ineffective the attack. Some russian kalibr fly over Syria and an entire American naval group go away from persian gulf. This is the US superiority

      • Solomon Krupacek

        the went from gulf to syrian shore

        • Tiresia Branding

          yes, there are videos and pics that show marines swim at “Assad burkini beach”.. 😉
          I’ve heard a story of a sirian “seagull” that had hitted an Israeli Dolphin in 2013…
          dig an hole and bury yourself, or show evidences of what you tell

  • gustavo

    Well, it looks like the F-35 was really hit by a bird S-200, that is all. Israel do not have to worry how many F-35 could be damage since USA taxpayer are really buying these planes.

  • Ian Craig Dunkley

    Biological and technical facts: no birds can damage a jet fighter so severely. Beside no birds can fly so highest. ( I get no report of such collisions ) so Israel is lying.

  • Solomon Krupacek

    f-35 was hit. after that destroyed the syrian battery and returned to vase. crazy story. if true (i dont think, it was f-35, which is invisibke for syrians), than tha plane have good resistance. or s-200 missile is weak. or both.

    • Turbofan

      The F117 over Serbia was invisible too..Really really wanting to believe something doesnt make it fact

      • Solomon Krupacek

        buy the book wrote by of leutenant, who was the ovvicer of missile battery. crystal clearly described, it was lucky coincidence. why? you can read the story.
        little boy, the f-177s made what they want above baghdad in both gulf wars. these stelth planes are extremly superior. that is thge reason, why tries also russia to develope.

        • Turbofan

          “it was lucky coincidence” LMFAO

          When your propaganda provoking blindness subsides look up.See how vast the “sky” is.now factor in the speed of that aircraft.its flying height and think about it.How is a missile that cannot sense this aircraft possibly hit it..This must have been the luckiest shot ever made..

          • Solomon Krupacek

            again: buy the book.

            and give me another example, when f-117 was shot down. you are only trolling, i write facts. if you, kindegarden child want to discuss with adults, should be grow up and be serious and polite.

          • Turbofan

            what the hell is a “grow up”…I buy plenty of books..just not the blatant propaganda you consider books

  • Melotte 22

    Damn birds.

  • Wahid Algiers

    So what did really hit the F-35? Birds, only birds or maybe a single bird.

    • BMWA1

      So now f35 can’t fly anywhere where there are birds or rain.

  • r0b1n

    We will know the truth, in time.

  • Solomon Krupacek

    So, the palestinian air defense units have to breed crows. :)

    • Wahid Algiers

      Good old school, too heavy for israelite air crafts.

  • WinstonSmith

    Good news if accurate. Fact remains that Syria needs to build up a good anti-air defense against ISISraeli and Zio US terrorism. Don’t repeat Saddam’s fuck-up believing that tanks and artillery are going to help against massive air superiority.

    • Brad Isherwood

      Problem is that Russia is not pro active on Iran deploying it’s Air defence missiles in Syria.
      Netanyahu was threatening Russia at recent meeting in Hell Aviv with Russian military command that Iranian bases in Syria will not be tolerated.

      I’m disappointed that Syria does not deploy it’s Mobile BUK M2 to Golan and Bekka and catch the IAF with a surprise fragmentation – Martin Baker ejection seat moment.
      It’s obvious Russia is holding Syria back from punching the Jew out.
      Erdogans running off the lease now….hooking up again with Takfiri instead of fight them.

  • Денис Черкасов

    Lol. This reminds me when serbs shot down american new stealth bomber in Yugoslavia with some old shit.

  • chris chuba

    It’s possible. The S200 is a high fragmentation weapon, even if the warhead only weighs 500lb. So it could have damaged the aircraft without bringing it down https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-200_(missile)#Missiles

    The Russians have some great radar systems in Syria, can they network their radar with the older Syrian S200 systems? If they did then that would be a ‘message’ to both Israel and even the U.S.

    • Blaine

      —“The Russians have some great radar systems in Syria, can they network their radar with the older Syrian S200 systems?”—

      Seems very likely.

    • Brad Isherwood

      Among the many weapons in North Vietnam’s anti-aircraft arsenal, few were more feared than the type of missiles Phiet commanded: the Russian-built S-75 Dvina (the SA-2 “Guideline,” in NATO parlance). U.S. combat crews likened the two-stage, 35-foot-long SA-2 to a flying telephone pole. The 5,000-pound missile had an effective range of about 21 miles, streaking toward its target at more than four times the speed of sound, up to an altitude of 90,000 feet to deliver a 430-pound fragmentation warhead that could shred anything within its nearly 300-yard maximum blast radius.
      Read more at http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/missile-men-north-vietnam-180953375/#ufh5vwxr2sQZkFqX.99

      Syria has mobile BUK M2 series which if positioned near Golan and Bekka could surprise
      IAF if they are not paying attention.
      It would be favorable for Russia if F 35,F 16,F 15 were damaged/downed by older generation systems which were networked with new Gen radar plot.

      • Kell

        This is a rare radio recording of an actual Arc Light raid over Nth Vietnam in 1972 (Linebacker II) including Sam 2 hits and near misses – sobering stuff.

        https://youtu.be/60ihI7VU2OY

        • Brad Isherwood

          12 tactical aircraft shot down
          16 B-52s shot down
          4 B-52s suffered heavy damage
          5 B-52s suffered medium damage
          43 killed in action
          49 taken prisoner[3][Wiki]
          Thanks for the Tube Kell,….that was interesting.
          The moving map with B 52 positions. …I’m surprised the NV did not net more vs the
          US bombers.
          This movie is well done in approx the reality of TAC air opps over North Vietnamese
          http://img.soundtrackcollector.com/movie/large/Flight_of_Intruder_(1991).jpg

        • Brad Isherwood

          12 tactical aircraft shot down
          16 B-52s shot down
          4 B-52s suffered heavy damage
          5 B-52s suffered medium damage
          43 killed in action
          49 taken prisoner[3] [Wiki]
          Thanks for the Tube Kell,
          Below movie is ballpark for what it was like visually to be under SAM attack during the war over North Vietnam,…..the movie is very entertaining.

          http://img.soundtrackcollector.com/movie/large/Flight_of_Intruder_(1991).jpg

  • TiredOfBsToo

    That’s one powerful “bird”. Keep them coming!

  • Jordan Katz

    Carrier Pigeons: The future of Air Combat…

    • FlorianGeyer

      The US is building a Pigeon Carrier as we speak for 350 billion dollars + contingencies of course. Its to be names the USS Sparrow Hawk I understand.

      The UK has just launched theirs and they have no need for the US F35’s now that will be several years late anyway :)

  • Mj

    In the next 4 years Trump will be worth 50 billion cos bogus business . America will regret for voting for Hillary Clinton. You put a businessman who is + 70 with a lot of kids and wifes he will suck the country.

  • Langaniso Mhlobo

    Now I understand why this F35 USA jet is so expensive.Because their are so soft even a bird can knock them down.Next time release lots of birds over Lebanon sky to make the Satanyahu Israehell jets unrepairable.

  • Manuel Flores Escobar

    Old Sam 5 hit F-35 and damage…nothing special as old SA3 shot down F-117 stealth during Serbian war!

  • hvaiallverden

    hehe

    Yeah, stealth, and you believe that, huh Yankikes, and the massive in flow of Hasbaratnjiks confirms that.
    Even the Swedish SABB, could run in circles around you crap, boy, and I dont even bother to explain Migs and others as the Shukoi, an Swan compared to the flying brick stone called F 35.

    What is it,, that is so damaging, the Gooose cant maneuver, and like Yankike cars, cant turn, runs best straight ahead, and with an mobility of an mountain, what is it that makes this plane not able to hit, not fast in any way, in fact, this plane is an show case for drawing cash, nothing else, obsolete shit.
    I bet I could take that down with an ordinary hunting rifle, because its nothing special, I have seen plains in near Mach speed, straight over my head, faster than that is difficult because of the atmosphere, lover flight, slower speed, they are simply to big, and that goes to most jet airplanes, above mach, forget it, if this was doing tactical low flights, using the terrain.

    peace

    • Bru

      Your funny comparisons made me laugh: flying brick, yankee car…

  • chris chuba

    “Israel’s military says its warplanes struck a Syrian anti-aircraft battery near Damascus on Monday after the battery fired on its planes.”

    An Israeli army spokesman said Israeli planes were conducting routine reconnaissance over Lebanon near the Syrian border when an anti-aircraft missile was launched at the Israeli jets.”
    This was reported on CNN and is so hard to stomach.

    How would CNN report it if Hezbollah was performing ‘routine reconnaissance’ near the Golan Heights? Which, contrary to whatever Nikki Haley thinks, would actually be normal since Hezbollah would be on their own territory and surveying hostile troops near their border.

    Israel has no business flying over another country’s sovereign airspace and they frequently use this as a platform to launch attacks inside of Syria. There is not an innocent reconnaissance mission.

    • dontlietome

      “Innocence” and “Israel” are simply not compatible.

  • Langaniso Mhlobo

    I dare Israel not to fly that rubbish in Palestine or Africa their will throw it down with a small stone.

  • Strange that Putin sells far more advabesd systyems to Turkey and SaudiIsrael , pretty much shows hes bought and paid for by the Rothschilds

    • John Whitehot

      ho ho ho ho hoo

    • dontlietome

      Do you REALLY think the Russians are THAT daft ??????????????? I trust you know what a back-door is ?????

      • WHERE YOU TALK OUT OF

        • dontlietome

          …………………..and what you should be going thro’…………dickwad.

  • james graham

    Exactly. The F-35 is a flying rust bucket.

  • A Berta

    The US Empire Is in decline. The world’s competitors are building missile systems more advanced for a fraction of the cost. What is US’s strength? Air Force and Navy. Most major super powers have developed and UPGRADED weapons systems that can defeat the defenses. It’s all based on “bulk launch”.

  • Nigel Maund

    If Syria had the S300 these pair of F35’s would have been shot down. Such an outcome would also have been a blow to US and Israeli prestige and confidence in this enormously expensive aircraft. Such a result would have also forced the US taxpayers to question why the F35 has been so freely funded and how this funding was organised and who got the kickbacks?

    • BMWA1

      Has there been any coverage of this in BBC etc.? With less coverage I am more inclined to think this f35 attack did not go well.

      • dontlietome

        Indeed, a news blackout signifies that the axis of evil took a huge kick in the nutsack ! Israeli fuckwits just didn’t reckon with an S200 c/w cutting edge seek and guidance system……………… and the SAA can bank on getting a decent replacement for their kaput S200 battery.

        • BMWA1

          Mere fact that old s200 can track the new ‘stealth’ aircraft, also..

          • dontlietome

            If the Russian “Khbiny” ECM pod can disable the American AEGIS system as demonstrated on the US Navy vessel “Donald Cook”, leaving it dead in the water……………… I am very sure that they have a whole suite of surprises up their sleeves………….

          • goingbrokes

            S200 is now part of the new integrated radar tracking system. Don’t need its old radar.

  • strike freedom

    Wouldn’t the IDF be smart enough not to broadcast that a F-35 was put out of service on the same day of an alledge missle hit?

    • John Whitehot

      who said it’s the same day?

      it could also be that as the article says, Israel tried to perform a stunt coinciding with Shoigu’s visit.

      • Brad Isherwood

        F 35 /Israel in thread photo with wing pylons for fuel and air to air missiles/Python series.

        Next to nill Stealth with that set up……now becomes a Uber expensive stand off attack platform.
        US Taxpayers dollars at work

    • Garga

      If they were smart, would they poke their noses where it doesn’t belong?

  • Johnny Palomba

    I figure Shoigu laughing ’till wet his pants…

  • Ronan Browne

    Two possab

  • Сергей Петров
  • Shoz Dijiji

    What Idiots the American People have become. Who do you think actually pays 100 million dollars for the F-35. We GIVE more than 10 million dollars a day – every day- 365 days per year to Israel. Our infastructure is crumbling, our schools have become child care centers, you can’t afford to go to college unless you join the military and fight Israel’s battles. WAKE UP!!!

  • χρηστος

    true or not we will never find out.if its true the whole F-35 programm will be ruined in a second. so they will try to hide it even with evidence (a wreck maybe)…they will say that it was not hit ,it was downed by birds, mechanic failure due to poor initial training of personnel and other such ‘secondary’ excuses that are not able to stall the programm. personally i find it very hard to beleive that the s-200 hit or damaged by detonating near it a f-35…on the other hand a f-117 was downed while bombing Serbia by a much inferior system.

    • Solomon Krupacek

      you all onanize on ONE taking down of f-117. the rest turnd serbia in middle age, over baghdag made what they want, the russian weapons were nothing. you are typical commie in menthaolity. 1, single one success, and you generalize and want to live from this little one, minimal succes decades. foget that lucky coincidence and focus on the reality.

      • χρηστος

        im not a commie ,on the contrary …but i like to see the facts as they are. the F-117 was a success of Serbia and thats it.

  • Simon Abruzzo

    Pantsir-S1’s are the most advanced AA’s Syria operates :P

  • Bru

    Syrian birds fight and down the planes the supporters of the terrorists…

    • Solomon Krupacek

      syrian birds should not fly over lebanon :)

  • Michael Morgan

    The F35 is a flying white elephant costing billions. This news is so predictable and hilarious. What was to be an exercise in showing how effective and “invisible” these flying turds are, showed exactly how much American taxpayer money has gone down the toilet for no benefit.

    • Attrition47

      Oh I don’t know, Lockheed shareholders seem to have done quite well….

  • Virgil Cane

    When will Syria get the S-500? ;)

    • John Whitehot

      I thought they already ordered S-600s lmao

      • Solomon Krupacek

        this will be stealth system. so stealth, that nobody will see it.

  • Puutini Oraakel

    Russia was covering all Syria most modern AWACS and all Syria air defences was integrated in one command. That was Debkafile some time ago.

    Now Israel media says, that Russia cant control even Assad, not talking about Iran :D

    • dontlietome

      Don’t trust Israeli media nor the Debkafile, which is renowned for spouting false intel.

    • goingbrokes

      Correct. Previously Syrian systems could use their own radar only. That has changed!

  • Dragon029

    This conspiracy theory ignores the fact that the IDF is still training their pilots on the F-35 and don’t plan to declare operational capability until December at the earliest.

    • chris chuba

      Israel announced that it would take time to test a squadron but they got some in Dec. 2016 and a few more in April. So it’s not plausible that they took one out for a test flight 5 to 10 mo’s after the first arrival?

      I have to admit that the odds that an F35 was targeted and hit do seem rather small given that most of their air force is comprised of F16’s. It’s also true that the Syrians have not claimed it was an F35 and they would have known given the radar signature but the Syrians know better than to play up the incident too much. Their neighbors to the south are very grouchy.

      • John Mason

        Maybe the Syrians didn’t want to embarrass Israel any further.

  • Hrky75

    If 400bn $ tech can be made unserviceable by a bird collision, it seems that the answer for stealth is not S-350/400/500 after all – but a flock of vicious homing pigeons.

    • Attrition47

      No “stealth coating” can withstand pigeon shit.

      • John Whitehot

        that’s true even for anti-corrosion paints on renaults.

        although it appears that “stealth coating” suffers even from simple attrition with the atmosphere: there was an article (perhaps it was air force technology website but im not sure) that was describing how the coating peels off after only some tens hours of flight and how most of the US F-22 fleet was affected by the problem.

        although, as already stated elsewhere, low observability effect is much more owed to the design of the plane, its angles, than the “coating”. Paint does not make for 10% of the overall effect.

        • Attrition47

          No doubt flying in an atmosphere with quite a bit of powdered sand in it wears things out faster.

          • John Whitehot

            yep, but we are talking the atmosphere over Wisconsin or Nebraska and so on.

            Besides, it ain’t that these planes fly much at altitudes low enough to sandpaper them, or fly into sandstorms or god knows what.

            It is said that it’s the normal action of the air peeling off their paintworks, probably exacerbated by the high temperatures generated by supersonic flight.

          • John Mason

            Caused by friction and electolisis.

    • John Mason

      That is so witty I am having trouble containing my laughter. World definitely need more people like yourself. Congatulations on your comment.

  • hawaiiguy

    It is wrong to state israel is “buying” these planes. israel doesn’t buy anything, they steal it from the us taxpayer and use that stolen money to acquire its goods. the god damn jew just needs to be taken out, period. if only because of the continued holocaust hoax, i mean what a despicable people to perpetrate such a global system of lie and guilt money, subhuman at its worst.

    • Attrition47

      Stick your antisemitic head up your arse and fuck off while you’re doing it.

      • dontlietome

        …………….oooooooooooo the truth hurts you worthless shitska fuckwit.

      • hawaiiguy

        haha, anti-semite only applies to people who were born in the semitic region of the middle east moron! As the zio jews aren’t born in Palestine your comment is as outdated as your intelligence. And on my way home I will make a point to stop and piss on Otto Franks grave, also not a semite!

        • dontlietome

          Love it !

    • dontlietome

      ……………….and subhuman at it best !

    • BL

      well said

  • Russell Scott Day

    The US military props up the Kissinger Petrodollar by killing leaders & destroying nations that decide to use their own currency and accept their and any other currency for oil. Good paying jobs in the US are found working for military suppliers & software engineering. We are in the waning days of the 100 Years Oil war. Elon Musk is a hero in making solar power portable with his power walls suitable for use on earth & Mars. Wonderful that even in the DNCs Platform was the Electric road.

    • BL

      I was about to upvote your comment until I read your delusional statement about Elon Musk, who is a Freemason Globalist New World Order shill and a criminal, similar to all the other CIA frontmen that are used to run various multi-decade old CIA/NSA/Pentagon projects.

      • John Mason

        Like Microsoft, Twitter, Facebook, Google and many others.

      • DenLilleAbe

        Careful with the juice early in the evening! You may come off as ranting to some sensitive people, now be quiet and get your beauty sleep!

        • BL

          Shut up kike

          • DenLilleAbe

            Ohh reverting to racial slurs , are we. It is of course more telling about you than me, it really displays your way with words, a marvellous intellect, and a good upbringing wit good schools and loving care from parents…
            You do understand Irony, dont you ?

          • BL

            Nobody wants, nobody likes, kikes, kikes, kikes

  • BL

    hahahahaha our local kike troll bots like (((Solomon Krupacek))) are fuming

    http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/941/051/d5c.jpg

    • John Whitehot

      xDD

  • C101

    LMFAO dumb fake jews

    • Attrition47

      They aren’t fake Jews, they’re genuine fascist pigs.

      • EmilyEnso

        You insult pigs.

  • Thegr8rambino

    lmao this is hilarious, what else do you expect from zionists? i hope shoigu will be able to contain his laughter when he is meeting with the zionists lmao

  • freemanpatriot

    ZOG AMERIKA is nuttin but a TAX DEBT SLAVE COLONY of ISRAEHELL !

    • Wahid Algiers

      Right comrade.

  • Zaphod Braden

    Today we witness the SECOND Israeli SHOAH of the People of Palestine..
    The Canaanites/Amorites/Philistines/Midianites/PALESTINIANS were in PALESTINE long before ABRAHAM passed through from Babylon/Ur ……Israel’s “claim” to Palestine is based entirely on War Crimes and GENOCIDE.

    “The Holocaust is the Holy Grail of white guilt.”
    The Jews BRAG about and SELF DOCUMENT THEIR “holocausting” others and then “PLACE A YOKE” on Gentiles for SUPPOSEDLY doing the exact same thing to them.
    Everything they claim the nazis did is an EXACT COPY of their own self-recorded acts/history..
    Deuteronomy 7:16, 20:16 “And thou shalt consume all the peoples which the Lord thy God shall deliver unto thee; thine eye shall not pity them…thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth.”

    KILL THE SICK and CRIPPLED
    Numbers c.5 v.2-4
    KILL HOMOSEXUALS & UNDESIRABLES
    Leviticus c.20 v.13 well, really the whole chapter
    KILL ALL DISSIDENTS:
    Exodus c.32 v.27
    Numbers c.11 v.1-2
    Numbers c.16 all
    Numbers c.21 v.5-6
    Numbers v.26 v.10
    KILL anyone who engages in “DIVERSITY” or “INTEGRATION”
    Numbers v25 v.4-8
    Deuteronomy c.14 v.2
    DEHUMANIZE and then EXTERMINATE ALL NON-MEMBERS:
    SEXUALLY ENSLAVE any females “who have not KNOWN a man”
    a very brief selection, many more in THEIR book.
    Numbers c.21 v.03 Canaanites
    Numbers c.21 v.24 Amorites
    Numbers c.21 v.33-35 Bashan
    Numbers c.31 all Midianites
    Numbers c.32 v. more Amorites
    Deuteronomy c.2 v.34 People of Heshbon
    Deuteronomy c.3 v.6 really the whole chapter. threescore cities
    Joshua c.12 A list of victims of Israeli GENOCIDE
    OCCUPY YOUR VICTIM’S DWELLINGS/LAND
    Numbers c.21 v.25
    Numbers c.32 v.39
    Numbers c.33 v.53
    (just to name a FEW)
    GENOCIDE CODIFIED IN THEIR RELIGION
    Numbers c.33 v.31-34
    Deuteronomy c.7 v.2
    Deuteronomy c.12 v.28-30
    Deuteronomy c.20 v.11-16
    TERRORISM CODIFIED IN THEIR RELIGION
    Deuteronomy c.2 v.2
    Deuteronomy c.7 v.1
    Jews SELF-anointed “The CHOSEN People of GOD”
    Nazis SELF-anointed “The CHOSEN People of GENETICS”.
    TODAY Israel states that it is creating “A PURE Jewish State”
    YESTERDAY the Nazis were creating “A PURE German State”
    Israel a SOCIALIST state.
    Nazis a SOCIALIST state.
    And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword . . . (Joshua 6:21)
    For modern day reinforcement of these “rules” research/google “the KINGS TORAH”

  • Real Anti-Racist Action

    Iran iran IRAN! Please please send in fully armed Iranian made variants of the S-300 missile system I believe are called Bravar 373 or something to that tune.
    Time to revamp up Syrian and Lebanese air-defense!
    Please equip the Lebanese military with modern air defense that would have brought the F-35 jet to the ground in Lebanon where the military of Lebanon could have picked up the pieces and sold them to Iran to pay for the missile systems or to Russia to analyze.

    • BL

      Bavar 373 hasn’t been officially operational yet, it’s in final testing phases and should be ready in the next 6 months. Iran’s own military would have to be equipped with them first before possible exports.

    • John Whitehot

      Look, i don’t think that Russia or Iran are willing to pay much for pieces of F-35. Probably they aren’t interested at all.

      • Solomon Krupacek

        10 tons of gold pay both. china 30 tons

        • John Whitehot

          LoL, actually it’s the only plane that costs more than its weight in gold.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            is also worth of its value.

            btw., gold is far not the most expensive metal.

          • John Whitehot

            “is also worth of its value”

            oahahahahahahaaa

          • Solomon Krupacek

            you are big thief. steal one, ask putin or hsi chin-ing (the most powerful man on the earth), hoy many will pay for it? you can be billionaire.

  • drbhelthi

    I recently read that “the Pentagon” is considering sidelining 100 of the F-35s. Since when do 100 of the expensive flying freaks exist ? Who pays for the 100 to be “sidelined” ? Guessing the “territory” to which they will be “sidelined” is easy.
    Also, since when does “Israel” have accommodations for 100 f-35s ?

    • John Whitehot

      “since when does “Israel” have accommodations for 100 f-35s ?”

      Good question. Last time I checked they were seriously considering not to buy any more than the two or three they received after thoroughly testing them.

      • PJ London

        For a mere $1m each, I will sell them Sopwith Camels.
        (Please ignore that ad for 70% off, it was before we realised what a load of rubbish the F35 is)
        Many are in very good condition.
        https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Sopwith+Camels&atb=v84-3__&iax=images&ia=images
        Also have bridges for sale.

        • John Whitehot

          the point of F-35 is to be rubbish.

          the whole point is to make EU countries bleed dry buying them and give away their independence in air missions, independence that they would have enjoyed from the US if they concentrated on updating the EF-2000 and possibly design a follow-up.

          But the US would never allow Europe to build a “5th gen” follow up to the EF-2000.

          I don’t know if people like Merkel are so ignorant or bad-counseled about the matter or if they are accomplice and get big checks from Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

          Sadly, that’s the people that gets elected over and over.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            most of eu countries will not buy f-35

          • John Whitehot

            the involved countries are, besides the US:
            UK, Netherlands, Italy, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Turkey, Israel and Singapore.

            Probable customers include:
            Spain, Belgium, Romania, Finland, Poland, Greece.

            To me it seems that most of the EU will buy it

          • Solomon Krupacek

            so, 4 of 27 eu mebers, 4 of 30+ european nato members. again i am richt, whitie. :))

            i see, how buy romania, greece, poland. all these countries have no money for NEW f-15, f-16.

          • John Whitehot

            are you even able to count?

            it’s 10 European countries.

            Also, they count for more than half the possible EU armed forces.

            You know, perhaps Andorra, Luxembourg and Liechtenstein will not participate with an airforce.

            edit, i forgot Norway. It’s 11 countries.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            i counted only the countries, which particiopated. the others will not buy. too expensive. there is new directive: eu member states should buy european weapons, not american.

  • Edward Huguenin

    I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning!!

    And a short memo the US government; the American people have gotten sick and tired of US aid, both financial and military, “never being enough” for this wretchedly apartheid, self-declared theocracy with nuclear weapons which is what Israel has become in the 21st century.

    As you are aware (or should be aware) all aid to Israel is completely illegal under the Symington Amendment, which prohibits any aid from going to a nuclear armed country which refuses to become signatory to the NNPT, and refuses to have its nuclear facilities inspected.

    Israel comes in at a big fat zero-compliance on both issues, so what is the deal here, please?!?

    The victim card has been played once too often by an Israeli government which spits in the face of US officials, and tells them it’s raining.

    And did I mention serial genocide against the Palestinians, coupled with brisk annexations of property in the West Bank and East Jerusalem? The Israeli government will not listen to anything approaching a two state solution; it wants territory, and to get rid of as many Palestinians as it thinks it can, and by any means necessary.

    It is high time for all US aid, both military and financial, to stop now, because this is the only language the Israeli government understands.

    No more wars for the crap hole state of Israel. And, that is PRECISELY what this greasy neocon obsession to drag the US military into Syria is all about.

    No more wars FOR ISRAEL. Instead, let’s wage war ON ISRAEL and wipe these evil snakes off the face of the planet.

    • goingbrokes

      Good points! Yes, IAEA inspectors to Israel NOW! And give them authority to inspect all military sites too! Impose severe economic sanctions if undeclared nuclear weapons or material is discovered.

  • HWR
  • ZioFascist

    the goyim know, SUMMONS F35 to SHUT IT DOWN!!

  • Jens Holm

    A waste if a S200 only make scratches. Its was a smaller one as a Stork.

  • Superfly

    The inflated price junk F-35 came out second best against a 1970’s vintage S-200, imagine what the SAA can do if they had modern SAM like S-300 or 400.

  • Mahmoud Larfi

    I doubt any plane could take an S-200 and land in one piece… man that missile is HUGE and could even be used as surface to surface ballistic missile. The warhead alone is a 220 kilograms fragmentation bomb and can also be fitted with a 25kt nuclear bomb.

  • Igor Dano

    Birds do fly there in 3km height?

  • Xanatos

    Not sure what to believe. But if it was hit by two storks – as Israel claims, then Assad better buy a lot of storks.

  • Mahmoud Hamoud

    S-200 been upgraded some time to become similar to S-300 how ever if birds can destroy F-35 what a pity ???
    The think that they destroy the S-200 now how we have to believe that as also we can believe that birds knock down F-35 also.
    Syrian are using birds these days nice idea.

  • Clive Hurston
    • vet vetlesen

      Show the source of this Bill or its just fakenews.

      • Virgil Cane

        if you need a source vet, you’re not paying any attention. it’s easy to find plenty for yourself.

        • vet vetlesen

          In a debate the burden of proof always lies with whomever makes a claim. If you can’t provide a credible source, then you can not expect to be taken seriously. If a source is easy to find, then it should be equally easy to provide that source. It is common netiquette.

          • dontlietome

            ………….I think you have just given yourself away…….. bitch ! So what’s for lunch then, Pedigree Chum or Frolic ?

          • Nod

            posting wiki for source with respect to geo politics is like photographing sh1te to represent kolbasa.

      • Pat Kittle

        If Jew supremacists get their way, Americans will also go to prison for merely questioning the Jewish version of WWII history — just like imprisoned Europeans right now.

        You’d like that, wouldn’t you?

      • Nod
        • Nod

          Took me 30 seconds to find it. And now you can pretend this thread does not exist.

      • Nod

        ” Yet the new bill does not mention the recent surge in hate crimes across the United States. It does not include the words “alt-right” or “white supremacy.” It does, however, encourage universities to use a controversial definition of anti-Semitism, and has been widely criticized by free speech advocates and civil rights groups as violating the First Amendment.

        It also conflates anti-Semitism with criticisms of Israel, a tiresome strategy that has been made particularly dangerous in an era where far-right groups use pro-Israeli rhetoric as a cover and excuse to incite against minorities.

        read more: https://wwwDOThaaretzDOTcom/us-news/.premium-1.758034

  • gmathol

    We will never know. If that goes public or is even real – US will go to war with Russia immediately.

  • Vitex

    David and Goliath :) Remember what the Serbs did to an F-117 with SA-3

    • Solomon Krupacek

      and what did usaf with serbia :P

      • Vitex

        Pounded it in indiscriminate fashion, like a despotic tyrant? And still “lost” the war? Like in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan etc…..

  • Nick Townsend

    If F35i can be easily damaged by birds. Israel’s enemies can train birds to attack F35i. Funny enough!

    • vet vetlesen

      The F-35 is actually designed to be more bird resistant than most jets, as it only has one engine and will fly in sea operations and low flying in some cases.

  • Joe

    Likely the

  • Not a fan of Israel

    Finally….Syria begins to protect their airspace. Bravo!

  • Alabama Mothman

    S-400

  • dave r

    A direct hit would force the pilot to eject, this missile is highly explosive, so it couldn’t hit it, not possible that the plane continue to fly and managed to land as well

  • vet vetlesen
  • Nothing hit an F-35. They were flying F-15 from the reports I saw.

  • gazoo3

    Lockheed executives belong in GITMO along with the politicians they bribed to purchase this worthless useless $100,000,000. airplane.

  • Meyhem

    Wow…this comment section turned to crap real quick.

    Humans suck

  • lookout

    Following is a line up of anti Israel conspiracy nutters, The Liberty Incident, The Secret War Against The Jews by John Loftus and Mark Arrons.

  • Mickey Dee

    Now F34 and a half

  • DenLilleAbe

    Lets see if this is true… In any case the plane is a lemon, especially to a nation smaller than the US, it is a complete waste of money, but essentially al mil. hardware is.
    This is just an excessive amount to waste

  • Daur Kecba

    Fuck the petrol station named russia. In Caucas we say good russian=dead russian. They are cowards. We own them everyday here in Moscow.
    Where is the proof that the F35 got shot? Photos, videos? This a fake propaganda.

    • Steve Bell

      Did that mosquito bite your butt in Tel Aviv or Haifa? Go cry to mama.

  • Ali hiji iddi

    SYRIA COUNTRY HAVE TO RISPOND TO BECOUS NOW ITS TOO MUCH TO THIS ZAONISIM WHATS THEY DOING THEY HAVE NAVER DO LIKE THIS GOOG IRAN ANA RUSSIA YOU KNOW THIS WHO THEY THINK THEY ARE CAN FOOLS AVERY BADY SUCH SMALL PALESTINA COUNTRY AND ISRAEIL KONW THIS IS THE TIME OF PEOPLE TI GET BACK THER LAND GOLANHAY TOO PART OF SYRIA WICH RUSSIA RISPONSIBLE ALL SYRIA and of the law from my commission which Israel broking hold the law they just played and wasting time playing fool to the world super power enough is enough 😇😇😇😇😇😇👹👹👹👹👹👹👹

  • Letusak

    as Israel stated that the plane was hit by storks and is going to be back in few days, operational, where exactly in the article you linked do you see the information that the plane “went unserviceable”? Or did you just make that up?

  • A_Skri

    assad will get his low fly-by one night. better that he wears diapers to bed.

  • Dave Ng

    Technically Isarel bought the F-35s except using US annual grant of USD3.5 billions with condition that the money to be spent on US products.

  • Tom Tom

    The Bird is the Word!

  • Marco

    I wonder how an old s-200 radar can detect the f-35. Is more credible to say that the Russian s-400 radar did it and relayed the coordinates to the s-200.

    • vet vetlesen

      Note that nowhere does the Syrians or Israelis say it was an F-35. It almost certainly wasn’t an F-35, as it is not operational yet with the Israeli Air Force. Also, the Assad regime has a history of making false claims like this, so while some kind radar system tracked an possibly locked on, let alone shot at, “something” there is no way of verifying this.

  • Mort

    Drivel

  • Mort

    Is this journalism? Reporting Rumors as fact? What drivel.

  • Kell
  • William Toffan

    So the USA needs to sell 460 planes to just break even. Yeah, that’s a good investment.lol

  • Nod

    ““Keep his decrees and commands, which I am giving you today, so that it may go well with you and your children after you and that you may live long in the land the Lord your God gives you for all time.”`

    thousands of years later, this is the only possible justification of the genocide and expropriation being done on Palestinian semites, by Israel.

    Religion, culture, prejudice, beLIEf, politics, inequality, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, patriotism, nationalism = brain fart in varying degrees of stink.

  • Nod

    Please dont be distracted by irrational hate of people who are simply irrelevant and immaterial to the imperialism and fascism that grows every day. We witness the dawn of a CULTURE of hate that is fed, nurtured and created by the media that is owned by the same group of rich folks.

    we all be HUMAN.

    The reality, is quite simple.

    USA affects globalist driven imperialism, by purchasing the products of corporations designing and selling death tech, while spilling blood on both sides of the imperialism.

    Tech that is bought and paid for by mostly Americans, with ponzi debt to banksters.

    Ponzi debt that is only sustained without economic meltdown, because the world has to buy american dollars in order to buy oil. Demand.

    This is why leaders like Qaddafi and Hussein get murdered after they suggest they will do just that. Sell their oil in Euros and gold. China and Russia are surrounded by missiles as they agree to trade oil in their own currencies.

    While our media tells us it is democracy in action. While our President tells us we are exceptional. :P Go USA go. We are the best.

    Funniest thing to me, is how the FIAT banking system pretty much rolled up the worlds economies and governments in a nice tight package, for a few men to control.

    Here is the sweetest part of that whole ponzi scheme socio economic system we have now, IMO. Our corporate appointed leaders take that BORROWED FIAT MONEY, and give it back to the corporations owned by the same rich banksters,

    The banksters own about 80% of the transnational corporations on the planet. ( go figure, when you create money from naught, with interest. ) So anytime we borrow money for bombs, we give it back to the guys we are already on the hook for, with interest.. Double dipping. Sweet, sweet scam.

    And it doesn’t just apply to bombs. Imagine if that fluoride you drink does cause cancer like the science shows. No worries, that bankster owned corporation will cure ya with chemo. At 30 grand a pop though. R& D IS expensive.

    Now as to governments, that is quite simple. He who controls credit, controls governments. That be the banksters.

    Politicians are appointed lightning rods, chosen by the herd, to absorb the discontent, puppets to do what needs done. Until the other puppet gets in, then he does exactly the same thing, about ANYTHING to do with globalism. Politicians simply play their part to divide and conquer, they give image of representation. I wonder who appoints that guy that you are told represents how you are supposed to think.

    The globalist banksters have told us what they want. One world socio economic order. They now have the means to do so, and the means and ways also increases their power. World pays in blood, pollution, and inequality.

    We pay, to enforce our own slavery folks.

    “In the modern economy, most money takes the form of bank
    deposits. But how those bank deposits are created is often
    misunderstood: the principal way is through commercial
    banks making loans. Whenever a bank makes a loan, it
    simultaneously creates a matching deposit in the
    borrower’s bank account, thereby creating new money”
    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q1prereleasemoneycreation.pdf

    ================================================

    “So no, it’s not a hyperbole to say the Banking System is One. We’re not overstating the case when we say it’s just one massive cartel. That the banks own everything, including all the major industries. Oil, Weapons, Pharmaceuticals, Food, Telecom and IT, etc. It’s all one massive monopoly. Controlled from the top down “

    ’A total of 737 control 80% of it all”

    The Money Power is real and these Swiss gentlemen have done us a favor by crunching the numbers.”

    Please Google “The network of global corporate control”. Or follow the link below.

    https://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1107/1107.5728v2.pdf

  • Bolter10

    The planes have to add fuel tanks so there goes the invisibility.

  • Jean-Charles Richard

    f-35 are not facing combat already, they are still in some testing phase even tho IOC is reached, they are flown, and more especially by Israel for training missions. So this is pure speculation.

  • musimann

    so why do the Jews get so bent out of shape about the protocols still? Because they state the truth about how jEWS HATE THE GOY.
    so its a forgery? Where is the original then?

  • musimann

    anyhoo good shooting! Israel thought they could use the f35 to attack Syria. Wonder if the russians helped them track it. I’ve read they can do it by satellite. Piece of f35 junk.

  • Bob D

    Since Russians are fairly primitive in terms of their journalistic style and integrity, I offer up this advise to them….wanting something to be true does not make it true. While it’s possible that the story is true…I’m guessing there to be quite a few holes in the russian’s due diligence efforts towards truth. If any at all. Keep on shoveling though!

  • gtrmen

    If it wasnt for the US threatening to destroy anyone who attacks Israel they would have been history long ago.

  • Ouija1210

    I wonder why invest in multi billion S400 and S500 defense systems when you can weponize geese or ducks?? it got slammed by a Russian S200 missile from 1960s and that is that. Its hard to admit that a 100million + dollar jet gets oblitarated by 50+ year old tech…. sad.

  • Nod

    So the sock puppets are out in force, reporting fact as spam, while they babble opinions.

  • “Stealth coating” my ass. That’s a story to make people think there is a secret other than just shaping the aircraft correctly. I doubt the Russians buy that.