Is Israel Hiding That Its F-35 Warplane Was Hit By Syrian S-200 Missile?

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It looks that the Israeli “demonstration of power” during the recent visit of the Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu has turned into a total failure.

On October 16, Shoigu arrived in Israel for meetings with Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The two sides discussed the situation in the region, including Syria, the fight against terrorism, military and technical cooperation.

On the same day, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) claimed that its warplanes targeted an anti-aircraft battery of the Syrian Air Defense Forces that had launched a missile at an Israeli aircraft flying over Lebanon.

“The army targeted the battery with four bombs and, according to the IDF, the battery was damaged to the extent that it was no longer operational. The army said that the battery targeted, was the same battery that fired at Israeli jets last March, prompting Israel to make use of its Arrow anti-missile system for the first time,” the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on the issue.

The Syrian military confirmed the Israeli strikes and said that they caused “material damage.”

According to the Syrian Defense Ministry statement, Israeli warplanes violated Syria’s airspace on the border with Lebanon in Baalbek area. The incident took place at 8:51 am local time.

Could the Israeli Air Force be trying to intentionally provoke a reaction from the Syrian military in order to justify the strike on the Syrian air defense battery?

Some pro-Israeli experts and media activists immediately linked the incident with the visit of the Russian defense minister to Tel Aviv saying that it was a nice demonstration of power to the Russian-Iranian-Syrian alliance.

However, something went wrong.

According to the available information, the Syrian Defense Forces used a Soviet S-200 missile against the Israeli warplane. This Soviet-made missile is the most advanced long-range anti-aircraft system operated by the Syrian military. However, it’s old-fashioned in terms of the modern warfare.

Despite this, the Syrian Defense Ministry said in its statement that the air-defense forces “directly hit one of the jets, forcing [Israeli aircraft] to retreat.” This statement contradicts the Israeli claim that “no hit” was confirmed.

Few hours after the missile incident with Syria, the Israeli media reported that the Israeli Air Force’s F-35 stealth multirole fighter went unserviceable as a result of an alleged collision with a bird during a training flight.

The incident allegedly took place “two weeks ago” but was publicly reported only on October 16. Israeli sources were not able to show a photo of the F-35 warplane after the “bird collision”.

Furthermore, it is not clear if the F-35 can become operational again because its stealth coating was damaged. Thus, according to the Israeli version, the warplane went out of service after collision with a bird, despite the fact that the F-35 earlier passed the bird strike certification with great results.

The F-35 is the world’s most expensive warplane. The price of developing the F-35 is now about $406.5 billion. Israel pays about $100 million for each plane.

The question remains, what really damaged the F-35?

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  • PZIVJ
    • FlorianGeyer

      It could well have been . Perhaps the Turkey Vulture was alarmed to see the F35 Turkey in the Syrian sky and soared in to chase off the intruder.

    • Jordan Katz

      Top of the Avion food chain. Not even the Tigers dare to challenge it’s supremacy!

    • Brother Ma

      Israeli spokesperson said they were storks. Only problem is storks had already migrated across middle east at least a month previously.so my take is they are lying about birdstrike altogether .

  • Deo Cass

    Well something about the S200. It might look old fashioned and of no technological equivalence to its pin point precise S400, but compared to the latter’s missiles, the missiles of the S200 are like elephants while those of the S400 are like gazelles. While the S400 missile relies on accuracy stearing itself straight towards the target, the S200 relies on approximation, exploding with devastating force on reaching the prescribed location with the releases of hundreds of thousands of shrepnel in all directions. Even if the missile does not directly hit the target, its shrepnel definately will. Let’s not forget that it was with this missile system that Serbia shot down the pride of the US stealth technology, the F117.

    • John Whitehot

      oh please no.
      please.

      it’s already been said several times, SAMs don’t hit targets directly, they explode near them to blast them with fragments.

      Only hittiles equipped SAMs hit targets directly, and they are made to knock ballistic missiles warheads off route.

      • FlorianGeyer

        What sort of blast radius does the S200 have John ?

      • Deo Cass

        Wrong. The last generation S300, S350 and S400 go straight towards the target with their optic guidance system. So does the US THAAD missiles. The missiles are thin, agile and fast and destroy the target with their kinetic energy as much as their explosive power.

        • John Whitehot

          bullshit.
          S300 and S400 have radar guidance with several modes and track via missile, while the S350 may have some form of IR guidance but nonetheless uses an AESA array as primary acquisition.

          All the soviet and russian sams have had an “optical” (actually electrooptical) channel as an emergency acquiring method when all the search radars are jammed or knocked out.

          Nonetheless, the radar channels are slaved to the cameras – in that way the missile follows a direct path to the target because the radar beam is simply boresighted to the camera.

          This is used only if there is a direct line of sight and no other mean to track the target. Since these missiles are employed at much larger distances, anybody can understand that it’s a redundant feature.

          As for the THAADs, it’s not even comparable, it’s not even a SAM, its made to counter ballistic missiles.

          “thin and agile missiles” is just bullshit again – missiles need to be fast and able to retain their kinetic energy in order to get to the intercept point against fast maneuvering targets.

          With the ideas you made up about SAMs you could well try to write “Top Gun 2” or some shit and go to Hollywood with good hopes to get the script accepted for some of those Reagan-time, jewish paid B-movies.

      • Brad Isherwood

        https://theaviationist.com/2017/10/18/israeli-air-force-f-35i-adir-involved-in-a-bird-strike-incident-gets-grounded/

        Unless the Aviationist are paid disinformation, …..it appears the F 35’s were on testing mission.
        Unlikely they would be stand off Tasker against a Syrian Air defence battery with 11:59
        Call to give Russia a heads up.

        Birdstrike by storks would be something technicians US/Israel would want to study.
        If F 35 is back in operations in less than 2 weeks …that might actually be a + for the
        Cursed Turkey : )

        I’m thinking IAF F 16 Sufa did the stand off strike on the Syrian battery.
        Some articles state that Syria fired first….missed….then IAF pasted them.
        It’s difficult to know who’s account is correct.

        • John Whitehot

          look, most generic medias and also some more “specialized” ones like theaviationist tend to preposterously credit Israeli side of stories, sometimes the claims of the other side is not even cited.

          I (still) don’t see the aviationist as paid disinformation, yet the authors are heavily imbued with western style milprop and tend to always speculate in that sense.

          My impression on this whole matter is that it’s tailored to give some sort of message to a third, uninvolved (directly) party – I’m not inclined at all to comment it as there is a chance it’s some sort of manipulation attempt by Israel.

      • Njegosh Maljevich

        What is your point with “SAMs don’t hit targets directly” exactly? Missile needs to explode close to he fast moving plane and it is possible only thru good target acquisition. Is it a direct hit or proximity detonation doesn’t meter! Radar(s) are in question!

    • Manuel Flores Escobar

      Iran upgraded this missile and use sofisticate Track-via-missile…it means that somekind of beam( IR or EW of F-35 have been detected from Ground base and iluminated F-35) data-link inside SA 5 return the information(position,angle and azimut of the missile) to commmand operator to guide missile from ground near the target and exploit it near the aircraft!

      • as

        In TVM the radar of the Missiles is activated to send real time data about it’s target to further supply the command data about the target position. The missile radar can be jammed or bluffed while the command in continuous wave radar can’t though their tracking is less precise than the missile.

    • Jean-marie Hamel

      Very interesting, Thank You for these informations, so it means that the S400 is now capable to more precise Hit, and when comes time (and it is) to bring down israHELL’s planes, this will work Good ! But, I am going over board, I wonder Why Russia sells these to Saudies, knowing They are Responsible for Yemen Massacre !

      • John Whitehot

        ” I wonder Why Russia sells these to Saudies, knowing They are Responsible for Yemen Massacre”

        Actually it doesn’t sell nothing to Saudis.
        Even the deal with Turkey won’t start before 2019.

        The reason why countries are interested in S-400s is that because they can track “5th gen” planes, contrary to US made systems.

        • Tommy Jensen

          US/UK are doing the Yemen war. Saudi is only front screen.

          • John Whitehot

            and israel

    • waka

      Serbia shot down the F117 with even older S-125 Neva (NATO name SA-3 Goa)

    • Marinos Ricudis
    • Marinos Ricudis

      The 1999 F-117A shootdown was an event that took place on 27 March 1999, during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, (Operation Allied Force, Operation Noble Anvil), when an Army of Yugoslavia unit used an S-125 Neva/Pechora to down a Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk stealth aircraft of the United States Air Force. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bb7c546e7d26a9911a17dbf2795e432b781413e1f007da0260d8158257e7ca51.jpg
      S-125 Neva “Sorry F-117A we didn’t know it was invisible”
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/50c05d0118f00a6f9cd20012350bfd7a08d98d50ecb76f956094c9d2cd5b3158.jpg
      S-200 “Sorry F- 35 we didn’t know it was invisible”
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d3876de6df8553abf81e7c05c7eedaa92ec725256678a52a3dbfc5f8f7fa6ac6.jpg

  • dontlietome

    This is just one of a long and continuous series of aggressive probes by the Jooz, who are looking for chinks in the AA armour of the SAF. Well they got the message loud and clear. As an aviation expert on the F35 pointed out, once it is forced to carry external tanks and hard-point pylons, it loses its stealth capability……. It sounds like the F22 didn’t fare any better after its last incursion some months back when it too was damaged by an S200 rocket.

    • John Whitehot

      never heard a story about F-22s and S-200s.

      • dontlietome

        John you will have to trawl Veterans today for the info. It was the previous incursion by the Yids, a combined force of F15’s and F22’s targeted .a Stores near Damascus airport. An S200 was launched and was “seen” to detonate, and there followed a massive secondary blast. There is some video’s floating around too, but if the F22 was destroyed, then its wreckage fell on Israeli soil………………………

        • χρηστος

          Israel doesnt have f-22s and cannot get any since the production line is closed. it was an f-16 or f-15 back then.

          • dontlietome

            Thank you for the feedback………….. although I presume that the IAF will get them in due course, in fact I can’t imagine them not getting any.

          • John Whitehot

            Firstly as the other user said, Israel has no F-22s. it won’t get them as the export is forbidden. It would take a legislative stunt from the congress to allow selling those planes: some years ago even Australia tried to enter talks to buy them but was dismissed.

            Exports to Israel are further complicated by the fact that there is a high risk of losing a plane over unfriendly territory and compromise the technology (or the bluffs) it contains.

            As for the vid you talk, I seen it back in the day, and it wasn’t really of much help to determine anything, although there is a high probability that the target was an Israeli made F-16.

          • Njegosh Maljevich

            I don’t believe that any law “prevents” US to do any kind of business with Israel. F-35 is much more of a “secret” because it is technologically more advanced plane than F-22 (over 20 years in technological advancement) and yet there they are, in Israeli hands. I don’t believe it was an Israeli F-22 also. But it would be funny as hell if S-200 did hit F-35 (never gonna know anything about thou)!

          • You can call me Al

            The F-35 is an expensive piece of junk as was the F-22 (despite what we would like to think).

          • Njegosh Maljevich

            I would also be very happy if this is true but do you know who hasn’t bad words about F-35? Watch this it has English subs.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScM_rN9a-js&t=24s

          • You can call me Al

            Tanks for the post and video. I honestly cannot keep up. I watched it on You Tube and the next videos were slating it.

            Oh well, we will find out shortly.

          • dontlietome

            Lets face it , everything in terms of proof or evidence that we are presented with is third party info which thus presented in the public domain, is left for us to use our use of common sense / critical thinking / logical analysis to come to a conclusion. Actions speak louder than words, and the way the Israelis habitually lie and and Israelpresent bogus cover stories, leads me to believe that in both Israeli incursions, it has led to the damage of their aircraft. I must also take Njegoshs point that there is no law which would prevent the US and Israel from doing business

          • John Whitehot

            “everything in terms of proof or evidence that we are presented with is third party info which thus presented in the public domain”

            Sadly it’s true, especially when it comes to news pertaining to military conflicts, or that are related to military themes anyway.

            There are, though, a couple of things to consider:

            Firstly, in todays world, it happens that there are some available objective facts: in addition to the accredited medias, basically every person has a camera, a mike and several means to disseminate information almost in real time.
            These objective facts can, and must, be separated from both official and unofficial accounts and put at the basis of any eventual analysis.

            Secondly, officials lie a lot. In the Syrian war especially, the side acting against the Syrian people and government, has built a huge amount of its overall credibility over lies.
            When they lie, we have a hint at what they want us to believe, and once that is established, more connections can be drawn. Add to this that once you know what a man is up to, you can basically “read his mind” all the times he speaks up.

            One could object that since we don’t really know if they lie all the times, we can’t base analysis on such logic.
            Yet, I’d reply that for the same reason we can’t do the inverse either, if the objective truth is what we seek.

            In the end, nobody of us is good enough to find out the truth all the times. But, we can do something at least not to make “our” truth to be based on what Nethanyau or Clinton or the MsM say.

            The highest risk is to produce bullshit – in the end though it’s what they do constantly, and what journalists starting from their claims do constantly.

          • dontlietome

            Nice one John, very eloquently put and a great read too !

          • John Whitehot

            thnks for the kind words

          • χρηστος

            well even for the US airforce a recent study suggested that unless a huge worldwide purchase order is ready the cost of reopenning the production line isnt worth it. the cost for each airplane for US only deliveries will sky rocket otherwise.they are very expensive even now, imagine adding the cost of reopenning the production….i think it is a project for 10-20 years from now. all f-16, f-18 etc will have reached their upgrade and service time limits so they will be replaced by f-22s and f-35s only…..

          • You can call me Al

            The F-22 is another cluster fuck, despite all the bravado.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaoYz90giTk

    • Marinos Ricudis

      On its very first combat mission it was hit by a Soviet era missile or maybe by a bird.
      Thank god I’m not US a tax payer.
      https://twitter.com/hashtag/SerbianStyle?src=hash

    • χρηστος

      ypu are correct that the stealth feature doesnt include external tanks or hard-points…..but Israel doesnt need external tanks at all and the payload that the f-35 carries internally is enough for such small scale operations. the only time the f-35s can be detected is whaen they open the bay doors, right before the hit, but even so Isreal doesnt croos Syrian airspace any more, it launces attacks with long range ammunition

      • Njegosh Maljevich

        Call me ignorant but i really don’t believe in story about “open the bay doors”! just look at how small period of time it needs to open it, release the weapon and shut the bay doors again. There is not enough time to see, identify, get the good lock on the target… For a good kill you need a lot more time. the further target is, more time you need. Laws of physics nothing more.

        • χρηστος

          well thats what i read…..about the time needed…i think its enough to get the radar to track you…radars need split seconds to estimate speed ,direction etc. the problem is that after the release of weapons the f-35 goes stealth again..so all calculations are useless……i mean….you fire and then go stealth again…then make a turn and you just vanish in the air.noone can predict your new heading. except if a weapons (aa missile) has reached you close enough and can track you….by eye…..which is 1 in 1billion chance

          • Njegosh Maljevich

            First of all, you need two radars to steer the missile! First radar looks for any object that is in the air. When it find it, data goes to another radar who’s purpose is to track and lock on target and after all of that data is sent to missile. t takes much more than 2 seconds! Bomb bay ruining stealth is a bull! Stealth is all about minimum radar cross section (RCS) and average RCS. Big difference!

          • χρηστος

            RCS is a matter of design thus reflection of radar waves. the paint absorves waves, the design bounces them to a random direction (not to the radar). 2 open bay doors leave the hull wide open to radar waves…thats the idea…..tor-m1 missiles have 7-8 sec reaction time, s-400 have 9 sec and s-500 have 3-4sec. that is the time that takes until a missile is launched. i think that the time that it takes for bay doors to open-launch-close is more than 2 secs, i calculate about 6-7 secs minimum………..see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnkpgQPa_y8.

          • Njegosh Maljevich

            Yes, you are right, it looks like 6sec. Only system in use that matches that time is BUK and TOR but they need even more time to steer the missile on the target. Missile is launched in that time window but what after the bay is closed? What makes RCS as good as bay being open? Little bit of topic, Hristos, you are Greek or Cypriot?

          • χρηστος

            greek and you are right…..i think basicly we agree on that …the AA systems maybe able to see and lock on the f-35 during the weapons release process but then they are going blind….so …no point in firing a missile if you send it to nowhere….

          • Njegosh Maljevich

            γεια σου from Serbia!
            (Bad) Average RCS+ different radar bands+multiple radars from different azimuths and voila, stealth isn’t stealth anymore!

          • χρηστος

            Добро вече !…totally agree

          • Brother Ma

            I am no expert but i heard that they need to have bay doors open alot longer to keep the plane cool. Consequently, the plane flies lower,slower and without stealth. So , in theory a less sophisticated plane and aa system can see it and shoot it down.

          • χρηστος

            there is a theory abut the heating issues….but i think it involves flying in very hot environments and only t the initial stages of takeoff…

        • Bob

          With the F35, it’s the issue of radar bandwidth that appears the most effective and cheapest area of research to counter stealth technology, long wave-bands of meter or more will evidently locate the F-35’s cross section, however, these radar’s are in turn vulnerable to countermeasures at present. But regarding the F-35’s bomb bay doors, there has been an actual real problem. The internal rear of the F35 fuselage is packaged so tightly that ambient heat from the engine has been overheating and rapidly reducing the lifespan of adjacent parts and lines. This has meant that in testing the pilots have been required to open the bomb bay doors around every 30 minutes to flush out trapped rear heat. This is a big problem. They can tinker around with insulation or try re-manufacturing some parts with more expensive heat resistant materials. But ultimately the air frame design is fixed, and if the packaging is too tight, then they are really stuck with it. So the upshot might mean a long term compromise combination of regularly opening the doors in non combat flight, as standard procedure, and accepting a very high rate of replacement for rear fuselage components – with associated extra maintenance hours and continuous replacement parts costs.

      • Brother Ma

        Correct, fying illegally over poor Lebanon. So if it is hit, then plane falls and pollutes Lebanese soil.

    • Igor Dano

      S200, upgrade links the missile to nowdays russian command center, built arround S300.
      I do know nothing about S200 sensors and the ulgrade ofthose sensors, but a link to latest command post means ,that S200 can see much more.
      The upgrade of its sensors might achieve a higher precision, but this is only my speculation.

      • dontlietome

        Thank you Igor…………… THAT piece of info is a key piece of intel info for the whole story, at least we know how the Israelis are being so accurately targeted.

    • John Veitch

      I had forgotten about that. Thanks.

      • dontlietome

        John, I was corrected by another commentator, it was not an F22 ,as the Israelis do not have any, but more likely an F16 or 15.

  • Cobras

    At 2:42… xD, nice video btw, and keep up with the “russian propaganda” guys.

    • Manuel Flores Escobar

      What about Israeli propagande?…”David Sling has shot down one S-200″…this is a joke as this system dont have capability to intercept a S-200 flying at 8000km/h and changing the route….only can intercept ballistic missile in terminal fly and ballistic path…thats why antimissile shields havent been able to shot down North korea missile!

      • Cobras

        The S-200 is old and has a bulky missile, its not that hard to believe that they intercepted a stray S-200 missile (they intercepted a stray missile not one in an actual engagement), and about the the NK missile, Japan had its course calculated, there was no need to create tension and shot it down, they are not warmongers.

        • as

          In cases of NK Japan couldn’t intercepted the missile due to their higher than what’s capable to reach using what they have in inventory beside they being unnecessary.
          In cases of S200 interception yes it’s possible but still quite a hard task. A missiles on radar basically a skipping dots so there’s a need for a closer or denser illumination to actually track and target it in addition to the interceptor missile to have close capability with it.

          • Cobras

            Israel is not a big country and they get their high-tech toys from US almost for free, its not such a far fetched feat as you might think. About the NK missile, it was flying that high so they could test its teorical range, to hit CONUS(continental US) of couse, NK doesnt need to flex its muscles againts Japan, that was literally the only place they could have test launched a missile with that range without huge consequences.

  • Garga

    It’s really difficult to know who tells the truth. However, I have a brilliant proposition, being a genius and all:

    Let’s all wait and see what Benjamin Netanyahoo says because he always tells the truth and never lies.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    It was really hard for me to write it with a straight face!! :))

    • Tudor Miron

      I like your sense of humor – made my (another) day. Bibi will tell the truth… but two forked tongue will betray him and show from time to time during that speach :)

    • Jean-marie Hamel

      Right, satanyahu has a Problem with Lies, and Truth is not Good for this ! So keeps doing his best to Fool some Peoples, but not ALL !

    • ruca

      Please Benjamin, we are appealing to your sense of decency :D

      You’re right, very difficult to write.

  • as

    IAF regularly send their plane to the Syrian borders (in occasion intentionally infringed their airspace) to try locating the Syrian Air defense sites and to record their patterns. So it’s possible if the F35 are tested to approach a known site in it’s stealth mode only to be illuminated by different air defense net.

  • Tudor Miron

    One of main differences of newer generations of missiles systems is not about missiles themself but targeting systems, missiles aero and propultion characteristics (that dictates range and g’s that rocket is capable to pull i.e. changing directions while fallowing evading target) are advancing as well but at much lesser rate than distance at which newer target aquisition systems are able to provide its missile with direction.
    I was wondering what does it mean, when Russian general stuff said that Suryan air defense is now inegrated with Russian AA assets located in Surya. Now I suspect that it may be how S-200 got its target (f35) and that fat turkey is not a very evasive bird.

    • ruca

      I agree that it is likely that an S400 or S300 provided data to the S200 system. As the Saker would say, plausible deniability.

  • Abdul Majeed

    …hahaha, now I understand why the Iranians would always laugh at the AmericanZino self impose greatness. …I pity these people and thier life of delusion and illusion.

  • Cobras

    The fun part is that Israel’s F-35 got detected by Syrian’s radars. This F-35 program is a total waste of money, poor stealth capabilities, poor bird collision resistance (Israel claim), poor countermeasures (Syrian claim), no defined role (Can carry all roles, excels at none) and so on. It’s vastly outclassed by the SU-57 in payload, speed, agility, endurance, operatinal range, maintence and price, in other words everything.

    • Solomon Krupacek

      in which universe is in service su-57?

      • Garga

        Solomon, you could put SU-57 in that Google box of yours and find out. Why didn’t you? Why? Are you a Masochist?

        • Solomon Krupacek

          i could. but su pak IS NOT IN SERVICE!!! this is only dream of russian army, there are some pieces with shit engine. the special engines will come in 2-3-4-5-6-10? years.

          otherwise you mkae from yourself sillyboy with such idiot comments.

          • Garga

            AFAICS, he didn’t say it is. He compared F-35 program with Su-57.

          • Tudor Miron

            Lol

          • John Whitehot

            Su-57 enters service in 2018.

            The story about the engine is utter bullshit.
            The first batches of Soviet and Russian fighters always entered service with a basic engine which is later adjusted and refined according to the experience accumulated flying the type.

            The way I see it, it’s a wise way of gradually putting new aircraft in service and adjust them to operational and tactical needs and according to suggestions of the pilots.

            What you say is the utmost idiocy put around by the pentagon propaganda that needs to keep the public opinion away from asking questions about how a shitty plane like the F-35 still can’t get into active service after years and 400+Billions while the Russians and the Chinese are launching fighters that are better than the F-22.

          • Cobras

            Oh boy you ARE a piece of work, don’t know why I unblocked you… Time to correct that.

          • Jordan Katz

            The intern engines are an upgraded version of the ones used on the Su-35, which is what they’ve been flying on so so far (except in testing). The new engines will have the traditional turkey feather exhausts replaced with something that functions a bit like the F-22, but with 360 degree pivoting. Personally, I like the Su-57. Watch MAKS 2017 day 5 if you get a chance, and skip to 2:05:30 seconds in. That’s their segment. When I play it through my sub it makes my apartment shake!

          • Solomon Krupacek

            i have that video. air parade is one thing, combat situation quite another. also mg-29 is nice in paris, and shot down in dogfight massively.

            until pak will not get own developed engine, is lame duck. in fighters is crusial question the optimal engine. so, AFTER that timepoint will be accomplished the project. and then we will see :)

          • John Whitehot

            another confirmation that you reside outside the space-time conitnuum.

            The MiG-29 never took part in any dogfight in real wars.

            Serbian MiG-29 were shot down in bvr because they had no radar, rwr, ecm and probably irst.

            In this universe, it means that Serbian pilots had no way to know that they were tracked, targeted and shot at.

            Find me 50 NATO pilots willing to take off in their buckets in those same conditions against an enemy with 10:1 numerical superiority and with no shortage of weapons and spare parts.

        • Tudor Miron

          He is, I assume. His painful hatred towards my country makes me wonder what happened to them during Warshaw pact times… He’s funny and hopless even if he’s full of hate :)

          • Garga

            Better consult with your granddaddy’s journals. Speaking of which, what about my souvenir?

          • Tudor Miron

            I know what heppened in ChechoSlovakia before I was born :) Thing is that it sounds like it was something personal to him and something he would not want to talk in public. Or this is just normal western hatred (nothing personal, just business)?

          • Tudor Miron

            Please remind me – which souvenir? Sorry for having such a short memory – it was a bit hectic here lately.

          • Garga

            When Solomon blew your secret of being Stalin’s grandson, I asked for an autograph or a souvenir or something.

            What a world… sigh…

          • Tudor Miron

            I was just checking in case you forgot that one. Just an old kgb treak if you don’t mind. Just can not stop myself.
            Souvenir… You’ll have to come to Russia (winter time) and you’re welcome here.

          • Garga

            Can I bring Solomon?

          • Tudor Miron

            Why you don’t like him that much? ;)

          • Garga

            What can I say?
            I’m a sucker for all cute things there is. I can help it when he shows he hates everything and anything.

        • Cobras

          Glad I blocked that guy, I don’t have the patience, you know.

      • DS Analysis

        Its a 5.5 gen.

      • John Whitehot

        this universe, in the year 2018. I know i knwo, it’s not the universe you’re familiar with.

        • dontlietome

          Ha Ha

      • Johnny Palomba

        to put it simply: in your worst nightmare

        • Solomon Krupacek

          :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    • Tudor Miron

      Yes, F-35 is inferior in many way comparing to F-22. It is by far not as stealthy – radar signature a magnitude larger than F-22 in straight ahead and much worse in other angles. The rest… it supposed to have superior situational awarness and super duper linked-integrated all together with some misterious central command post (I’m oversimplifying but…) but that “accident” with Donald Cook in Black see when ancient turned on fairly modern jamming measures showed the world that it may not be that simple and modern planes will still have to engage in WVR air combat ( in case of serious conflict) and F-35 project is really looking like a huge money loundring machine :)

      • John Whitehot

        “linked-integrated all together with some misterious central command post”
        they call it sensor fusion.

        I call it having displays run by an operating system which in turn is run by a CPU.
        So on the displays you get data coming from various sources.

        The idea comes straight from the end of WW2, world navies ships in the 1960s already had the concept implemented in their command stations.

        • Tudor Miron

          Thanks for your input. Thing is that the idea was that F-35 will be able to shoot at targets being invisible or out of reach of opposing air defence. Thing is that F-22 was considered way too expensive and its production was halted. F-35 was supposed to be able to do much more than F16/F15/F18 combined and be an inexpensive alternative to F22 that could replace legacy fighters. Official report (I can find a link) of US authority clearly stated that most of the things that A-10/F-16/F15/F18) cand do F35 does less than stellar and some are yet to be tested/proved and delayed due to various software glitch. Next version of software always promises but new glitches come and each update costs hell of the money :)
          Russia has different view of modern fighter and that’s because they know for a fact that current stealth technology is not really that much of a threat and they can cope with it.
          As soon as a stealth fighter fires a radar guided missle (even if it received its targeting info via data fusion link) it will become visible because even in the case of amraam it becomes fire and forget only when closer to target. It will take no less than 5-10 sec. that stealth fighter will have to use its radar (= be visible) this is enough for a salvo of izdelie 172 (in various versions i.e. one active radar guided, one heat seeking, one radar emission seeking, one optical seeking. With current hit probability of amraam there’s good chance that experienced pilot will evade incoming missile – there are several manuvers that are proven to help to disingage incoming radar guided missile. One of the simpler is that plane is set on the course ~ 90degree to incoming missile and goes low so that missile/attacking plane will “see it” on ground “background”. That greatly reduces ability of radars to keep lock on target.
          Than will come WVR fight and I don’t think that F-35 can hope for 1 per 1 exchange against Su-30/Su-35.
          Either way it will be like it was in Vietnam and NK – much less numerous jet fighters and limited air defense was inflicting huge damage (many thousands of jets we’re talking).

          • John Whitehot

            I concur that it comes to wvr, although for different reasons.

            I appreciate the analysis you make on wvr, but I don’t know if we can really rely on that information: I mean, it’s what you can read on most books, but there are lots of assumptions made in this subject that I think should be at least reviewed, and it’s beyond the kind of information the public has.

            For example, it’s assumed that data-links are always functional, when in fact it should be quite the opposite. Western literature tends to assume lots of things about the amraam too, yet there are signs coming from the Syrian conflict that current versions may be awfully less effective than previously thought.

            I may add that the “notching” technique you describe to fool aarm has been the same for 40-50 years and it’s based on the shortcomings of doppler-based radars. I don’t really know how much valid is still today, but take Desert Storm – Iraqi planes could not take up many shots at western ones, yet there’s been several Tornados shot down by Fulcrums and even a F-18 destroyed by a MiG-25/R-40 combination.

            British/Italian Tornado planners had based all their tactics on low-level, high velocity penetration only to take unacceptable losses on the first night (and that was against a modestly setup iads, already weakened by counter-ad missions), to the point of totally changing their approach to a conventional one.

            More often than not air forces have seen their plans get mangled by real-war application – the doctrine they try to develop based on F-35 won’t be an exception. It’s very, very dangerous to develop tactics based too much on technology like the west is doing, because there is no reliable fall-back in case of a fuck up.

            There is a real, tangible (especially today) risk of starting an air war based on stealth, only to discover that the enemy is not affected by stealth at all and lose like 50% of aircraft on the first day. When you get there, you also already know that without stealth your plane is generally bad (The F-35 is THE example).

            At that point your options range from bad to bleak.

    • as

      The problem with F35 is they try to capitalize on the general capability of the fighter to achieve compactness and stealth features and still selling it as a fighter better than it is replacing. The Chinese and Russia is more realistic in stealth approach and applied muscles to theirs even if that ended up making the plane bigger thus less stealthy than the US counterpart. The Chinese and Russian also have theirs to be able to upgraded in near future (bigger airframes and twin engine).
      Another note that the F35 originally to be equipped with thrust vectoring technology to complement it’s stiff airframe (notice their circular exhaust) due to good compatibility of thrust vectoring technology and digital control of the planes.

  • aba opaco

    Well, if a bird was able to damage an f-35… then why that crap is so expensive?

  • Russell Romick

    It wasn’t hit. Jesus. My cousin is a US Airman groundcrew stationed there and it wasn’t a missile hit. I guess he could be lying but the fact that he is able to talk about it when everything normally censored is truth in my mind.

    • Garga

      If he is lying, then he needs (and has orders) to talk about it.
      Maybe your cousin can take a picture of the plane, secretly, without looking suspicious.

      Disclaimer: I won’t take any responsibility if you’re cousin is caught and sent to prison with hard labour for 20 years, like, I don’t know, Vanunu or something.

      • Tudor Miron

        Lol

    • DS Analysis

      Even if it didn’t get hit, see how it feels to get targeted ? Everyone believes it got hit. LOL. But you Americans deserve it. Whether its true or not. YOu BULLSH1TTED the world about MH 17

      • Russell Romick

        Im Canadian dumbass.

    • Guest

      So, the F-35 was taken out of action for a significant period of time by a bird strike and yet was certified as bird strike ready?

    • Eskandar Black

      Then why not show a picture of the “bird damage,” the untimely coincidence, target a battery that isn’t a threat? Even if all these things could be explained as coincidences, your logic of my cousin is a US airman, thus i know the truth about the top secret Israeli jet is laughable. The reason he can talk about it is because he doesn’t know a thing.

    • John Whitehot

      yeah sure.
      and my wife is Daisy Duck.

  • DS Analysis

    South Front. There’s a typo in the video. The lady says 8:51 AM in the video. But it says 8:15 AM on the screen. No big deal just thought id mention it

  • Rodney Loder

    Imaging system missiles have got the advantage over stealth aircraft at the moment if you can believe what you read on the internet, rectile seekers can’t be fogged off even under high frequency jamming because a part of the aircraft remains visible, probably if the F-35 was hit that’s the only thing that could have done it, Russia would have very high tech systems in place but not wanting to press the US into an arms race, like in August over half the Tomahawk’s went AWOL.

  • Nigel Maund

    Damn those Storks!!!

  • gustavo

    I think, these two ladies, Israel and USA, must be very very worry about their planes. If bird S-200 can make such a damage to the most advanced plane F-35 in the world (?), what kind of damage can make a bird S-300 or a bird S-400 ? This is really a nightmare right now for these ladies.

  • dcammer

    The S 400s the S 500s are manned by CCCP personnel there is an agreement not to engage with IDF aircraft….the Beeb devotes lots of time to secure visa free access for Mossad and shin bet covert ops..any type of recreation in a tropical safe haven is kosher

  • occupybacon

    This is F-35 ad, buy armored f-35 ppl, a missile it’s like a bird to this plane!

  • Ali hiji iddi

    He have why not becouse they thinks they can fools all the time peoples there country for there PALESTINA land they live just they have NUCLIA so what’s enough is enough people getting tired for them not to send Becky the land it’s time now to lsraeil to sen back Part of Syria land of United Nations Low wich lsraeil brocan manytime by westing time of world and they know RUSSIA are responsible of all Syria and its have to gat back without condition before not to get a problem by being worse cause this is it going to be great piece of Middle East 🎇🎇

  • Matus

    Yeah, long range bird… sure.

  • chris chuba

    The odds that an F35 flew a mission and was hit are very small given that Israel has a tiny number of them.

    The only way this story could possibly makes sense would be if all of the following was true (not saying it is or isn’t just thinking of how it could be)
    1. The Israelis want to showcase their new stealth jet (don’t know why since F16’s do the job well enough)
    2. The Russians integrate their radar system with the Syrians
    3. The Russian / Syrians intentionally wait for and pick out the F35 to show that they can. The F35 should be easy to distinguish because its radar signature is quite different.

    I don’t know, I wouldn’t bet the farm on the story. F35’s have been grounded in the U.S. for all kinds of reasons.

  • Cobras

    This just made my week. The brazillian mil-fans circle jerk is going AWOL, it’s so funny. xD
    Journalism in Brazil is a joke, I tell you that. Atleast I can rely on southfront and other international media.

  • Gio Con

    Israel doesn’t pay $100 million for each plane — the US taxpayers pay for Israel’s war machine.

  • Jean de Peyrelongue

    If a bird was able to take down an Air Force’s F-35 stealth multirole fighter, then that Bird deserves a medal ! It seem that for the Israelis, Nature is more dangerous than missiles. That is good news.
    If mother nature is against Israel, then the Palestinians, the Hezbollah, Syria and Iran can thank God and celebrate that Bird as the jews celebrated David after his Victory against Goliath !!!!

    • dontlietome

      Hey Jean, you know David and Goliath is just a myth ??????

    • John Whitehot

      if the story about the bird is true, which is not, i feel sad for the poor creature.

  • Sebastian Vicente

    Bird hit at what heigth? Happens in landing, and the take off. In other cases, a bird can shoot down a light aircraft, the british lost many Tornado, Harrier GRS.9, and USA lose many Harriers too. What I mean is a serious damage (cockpit destroyed, engines set fire, and the pilot fall down, is a dangerous F.O.D what shoot down many F-16, but the heigth? Low flying in a stealth aircraft? Non sense) , If the plane returns safe to the israeli base the F-35 can tolerates damage, best than F-16, Harrier, Tornado, and others. The repairs will be expensive for sure. The SAA launched doves against the F-35?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgspIiTFWIk .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN_Zl64OQEw. The F-35 was proved crashing a chicken (test in wind tunnel at the cockpit, in the engine you are dead)

    • Tommy Jensen

      Birds are terrorists without mercy for human lives,

  • El Mashi

    Israel pays nothing for the F-35. The US taxpayer is complicit in Israel’s crimes in occupation.

  • XRGRSF

    It may be recalled that a US F-117 stealth fighter was shot down by a Yugoslavian SA-200 in 1999. The US excuse was that the missile was so old that the modern F-117’s countermeasures suite was too advanced to counter the ancient missile. Perhaps things old are becoming new again? Or could it be that the F-35 isn’t all it’s supposed to be. Regardless, the Israel’s don’t have anything to complain about; the F-35 was provided by the American tax payers.

    • John Whitehot

      it was a S-125.

  • Chaos Craft999

    Since the Aircraft was Actually on a bomber mission, it all makes sense that Opening Hangar Bay gives out stealth, same thing haplened to F117.

  • Loveyou

    F35 WAS A TOTAL FAILURE FROM THE START. F22 IS MUCH BETTER.

    • goingbrokes

      F-22 may be better but it is totally unsustainable. And probably overrated too.

  • Ryan Gregg

    First and formost if a missle did hit as the Syrian🇮🇶military said about the Isreali🇮🇱jet an American 🇺🇸made f-35 lighten 2 multiporpose fighter jet✈it would of come down because it only have one engine unlike the f-15 eagle🕊✈so its false.

  • Tommy Jensen

    It was a hostile bird, showing anti-semite aggression, a holocaust denier. Constantly whining about Gaza and Palestine, wanting its house, its socks and shoes back..
    A terrorist bird.

  • Ronny moen

    I think Assad is hiding he is gay too