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India Shows Wreckage Of US-Made Air-To-Air Missile, Media Says Pakistani Warplane Fired It Before Being Shot Down

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On February 28, the Indian authorities showcased the wreckage of a US-made beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile that was reportedly launched by a Pakistani warplane during an aerial engagement over the Line of Control (LoC) in the region of Kashmir a day earlier.

India Shows Wreckage Of US-Made Air-To-Air Missile, Media Says Pakistani Warplane Fired It Before Being Shot Down

Click to see full-size image

The missile was identified as the AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM), which has a range of more than 105km and an active radar seeker. The Pakistani Air Force (PAF) is known for arming its F-16s with this type of missiles.

According to the Economist Times, the PAF F-16 launched the AIM-120 during an aerial engagement with a Mig-21 Bison of the Indian Air Force (IAF). However, the missile missed its target.

According to an Indian version of the events, wing commander Abhinandan Varthaman, who was reportedly flying in the targeted Mig-21 Bison, escapted the AIM-120 and engaged the PAF F-16 and fired a Russian-made R-73 missile at it, effectively shooting it down.

All of these claims were dismissed by Pakistan, whose air force shoot down two warplanes of the IAF over the Pakistani-controlled part of Kashmir on February 28.

The escalation between the two nuclear-armed nations began on February 14, when a suicide bombing in the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir killed 42 Indian paramilitary soldiers and injured many others. The attack provoked a fierce response by India, which bombed an alleged military camp of the attackers within Pakistan territory.

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Smaug

Yes, we’ve sold many weapons to Pakistan, back when they were helping us fight al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Although, contrary what to the Indian’s think, we do not give a rip about Kashmir.

Zionism = EVIL

Pakistan has the most favored non-NATO ally status and US still supplies all the spares and weaponry. The PAF used their Sidewinder and AIM-120 quite liberally all over Kashmir and Punjab air space this week. India really got a bloody nose and will not just sulk and make idiotic unsubstantiated claims. The PAF CAP missions were all F-16 and the ground attacks were by Mirage 5 DPA ROSE. The JK-17 Thunders were used in a sensible mix with F-16 providing top cover. The Iranians used their F-14A and F-4E in the same manner, as the F-14A Persian Cats have a better BVR radar.

Sinbad2

The North Koreans have an American plague bomb in their museum, and nobody cares, why would anybody care about this?

Zionism = EVIL

Well as I told the kids here a million times, DPRK will never disarm or denuke. Kim has got the fat orange dotard Trump by the curlies.

RichardD

This legacy equipment can be effectively upgraded and armed with modern ordnance for a small fraction of the cost of new equipment. So that it’s effective for some missions.

RichardD

“Specifications (MiG-21-93)

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21PF

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 14.7 m (48 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: 7.154 m (23 ft 6 in)
Height: 4 m (13 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 23 m² (247.6 ft²)
Empty weight: 5,846 kg (12,880 lb)
Loaded weight: 8,725 kg (19,230 lb) with 2 × K-13A missiles
Max. takeoff weight: 9,800 kg (21,600 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Tumansky R-25-300 afterburning turbojet
Dry thrust: 40.21 kN (9,040 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 69.62 kN; 97.1 kN WEP (15,650 lbf; 21,825 lbf WEP)

Performance

Maximum speed:
At sea level: Mach 1.05 (1,300 km/h; 808 mph)
At 13,000 m (42,640 ft): Mach 1.76 (2,175 km/h; 1,351 mph)
Range: 1,470 km (910 mi; 790 nmi) at 10,000 m (32,800 ft) with 2 × K-13A missiles and 800 l (180 imp gal; 210 US gal)
Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,400 ft)
Rate of climb: 225 m/s (44,280 ft/min)
Wing loading: 452.2 kg/m² (92.7 lb/f²)
Maximum g-load: 8.5 g
Landing speed: 350 km/h (190 kn), usually with a drogue parachute[154]

Armament

Guns: 1 × internal 23 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23L autocannon with 200 rounds
Hardpoints: 4 with a capacity of up to 2,000 kg (4,400 lb) of stores and provisions to carry combinations of:
Rockets: S-24
Missiles:
Air-to-air missiles:
K-13
K-5
R-60
R-73
R-77
R-27
Air-to-surface missiles:
Kh-66 Grom
Kh-25
Kh-31
Bombs:
KAB-500KR TV-guided bomb
4 × 500 kg (1,100 lb) bombs

– Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 –

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21

RichardD

comment image

– Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 –

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21

Zionism = EVIL

The ones that got whacked were Zionist upgraded BISON standard with better avionic and weapons suits, but no match for F-16 and JK-17/FC1.

RichardD

The Indians say that they shot down a Pak fighter, presumably with a Mig-21.

Zionism = EVIL

They are telling lies. In this day and age you can not hide a downed plane. If they had, they would have shown the debris and pilot. Indians are embarrassed and have now backed down. I have to admit that the Pakistanis have been very open and truthful all along.

Zionism = EVIL

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RichardD

Another dodge.

Zionism = EVIL

Dodge? I am stating FACTS not childish drivel :) Get over it, Indians are liars and lost. That simple.

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RichardD

You haven’t disproven them or me. I’ve disproven your stupidity numerous times.

Zionism = EVIL

Not very relevant. You Indians are liars :)

RichardD

You’re lying and you know it.

Zionism = EVIL

I could not care less about Indian piss drinking liars or Pakistanis :)

RichardD

The Indians say that the F-16 came down in Pak territory:

“”Fact is that Indian Army units reported sighting two parachutes falling in PoK [Pakistani-occupied Kashmir] which were of two F-16 pilots shot down by the IAF MiG,” Air Vice Marshal Kapoor, said during the press conference.”

– India Shows Proof U.S. Made F-16s And AIM-120 Missiles Were Used By Pakistan In Aerial Brawl –

http://thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26689/india-shows-proof-u-s-made-f-16s-and-aim-120-missiles-were-used-by-pakistan-in-aerial-brawl

Zionism = EVIL

Seriously, the dumb Indians are showing the casing of a AIM-120 in Kashmir and say the plane went down in Pakistan. It is beyond hilarious. As I have said, even in my days our F-4E had excellent gun cameras and recorded every kill. If the Indians have camera footage then SHOW ME!

Daniel Miller

you do realise that the aircraft dosent just fall out of the sky when hit right?

RichardD

The Mig-21s used in the engagement have evidently been upgraded to carry the R-27 missiles, which is still in service with the Russian and other militaries, and has several upgrades with up to 170m range depending on the variant. Making it an effective BVR standoff weapon depending on the circumstances.

Zionism = EVIL

The poor Indians are really embarrassed as the Pakistanis have hit them hard. As I said initially, based on years of flying experience, the PAF dominated the skies and used everything they had. The Sidewinders and Sparrows are usual BVR weaponry for F-16.The AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, or AMRAAM, is a modern American beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) capable of all-weather day-and-night operations. The Pakistanis used a mix of Chinese Pl-9C, AIM9X and AIM 120. The pathetic Indians have picked up the debris of a spent AIM-120, perhaps the one that downed the SU-30MKI. Another interesting fact, that I gleaned through and knew anyway is the average PAF pilots age is 28 years, IAF over 42. The Indian idiots sent geriatrics to fight young men with better training and machines and lost. It is that simple.

RichardD

The Indians could have sent Mig-29Ks. Would you want to go up against them in an F-16?

Zionism = EVIL

As you know I am no fan on US, but in aerospace they are tops. The F-16 is a very versatile fighter and the Pakistanis have first rate pilots. The AIM-120 is deadly fire and forget missile. The problem with IAF is that they have a pilot shortage and their Russian junk planes have only 40% operational status. As I posted before, India may have more planes, but 400 of them are pure junk MIG-21 and other garbage like Jaguars. Indians pilots are old and it is a crime sending these old men to fight against better US planes and younger aggressive pilots.

RichardD

That’s a dodge. You didn’t answer the question.

Zionism = EVIL

F-16 can run circles around a MIG-29. The USAF shot down all Iraqi MIGS with F-14 in the Gulf war. The MIG 29 is an old flying junk, even Iran which as 40 of them uses them as a back up for the trusty F-14A.

RichardD

Another dodge, you still didn’t answer the question. Many would disagree that the F-16 can run circles around Mig-29s. The Indian Mig-29s are the 4++ generation K models.

Zionism = EVIL

I am from the school of reality, show me! If the Indians had trust in their MIG-29, they would have sent them up to challenge the F-16 which ruled the skies.

RichardD

From someone who’s had as much of their disinfo outed as you. And who repeatedly refuses to answer the question. I’ll go with qualified and competent experts who disagree with you.

Zionism = EVIL

I can go by experience and evidence, not baloney. Indians got whacked pure and simple. In the days of smart phones and real time satellite imagery nothing can remain hidden. The idea of these forums is to post factual info and NOT fantasy. The US aircraft have no equals. Russia is a third world dump that produces JUNK. The Turks, Israelis and Pakistanis have been shooting down Russian junk for generations. A few years ago I met Russian airforce pilot Alexander Rutskoy,, who later on became a politician, he was shot down in Afghanistan by a PAF F-16 and had nothing but praise for the aggressiveness of PAF pilots and US aircraft, not to mention the Stinger MANPADS.

Zionism = EVIL

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RichardD

Really? This is an F-16 shot down by an S-200 over Israel just last year. The legacy Russian equipment has been taking down NATO planes for many years. Almost all of the US equipment of similar vintage was scrapped years ago. So whose equipment is literally junk?
http://www1.cbn.com/sites/default/files/styles/original/public/media/standard/images/israelf16.jpg?itok=u3nqvtaW

Zionism = EVIL

I am talking about air to air kills.

RichardD

Like this one:

“LCDR Scott Speicher was flying an F/A-18 Hornet fighter, BuNo 163484, when he was shot down by Iraqi aircraft 100 miles west of Baghdad, on the night of January 17, 1991, the first night of Operation Desert Storm.[1][2] His plane crashed in a remote, uninhabited wasteland[2] known as Tulul ad Dulaym 33°14′35.81″N 42°21′18.14″E.[8] He was the first combat casualty for American forces in the war.[2]

The U.S. Navy maintained in a 1997 document that Speicher was downed by a surface-to-air missile.[9] However, an unclassified summary of a 2001 CIA report suggests that Speicher’s aircraft was shot down by a missile fired from an Iraqi aircraft,[8][10] most likely a MiG-25,[2] flown by Lieutenant Zuhair Dawood, 84th squadron of the Iraqi Air Force.[11] Speicher was at 28,000 feet and travelling at 0.92 Mach (540 Knots) when the front of the aircraft suffered a catastrophic event. The impact from the R-40 missile threw the aircraft laterally off its flight path between fifty and sixty degrees with a resulting 6 g minimum load.[8] A pilot on the same mission stated: “I’m telling you right now, don’t believe what you’re being told. It was that MiG that shot Spike down””

– Scott Speicher –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Speicher

Jimmy Jim

F-18 lol not F-16…..

Ganga Prasad

So how did serbia shoot down stealth f 117

BMWA1

F16 was shown downed in video on Vesti.

RichardD

Do you have a link?

BMWA1

I look at Vesti News, Youtube often, there was a link a day or two ago on a short report with video footage here, the wreckage is certainly that from a downed aircraft payload, not an expended missile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1anku6oNsHQ

Not sure why the long debate on this. Main thing is that it did not escalate. I assume there are some trolls on site who like to play games.

Jimmy Jim

hahahaha ruski liars…pants on fire….USA>USA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Jimmy Jim

USA>>>>>>>kicks ass…..buy f-16…….

Ganga Prasad

Pakistani pilots are first rate jihadis who kill unarmed civilians and then flee

Zionism = EVIL

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Sephy

So they show the wreckage of the missile launched by pakistan and say “Look, here is the proof we shot down a pakistani jet”. What a logic!!!

Zionism = EVIL

Exactly, they have been severely embarrassed. The Zionist fuckers goaded a poorly trained Indian airforce into a losing fight with a far better opponent. Good article in the London Independent by Robert Fisk on how Israel pushed the Indians into a disastrous airstrike on trees and the Pakistanis who are some of the belligerentcomment image and militarized people on earth, called the bluff and whacked India.

Jimmy Jim

paks top gun?

Brother Thomas

My thoughts exactly.

RichardD

It went down in Pak territory.

Zionism = EVIL

SHOW ME?

RichardD

F-16 debris from being shot down by a MIG-21 using a R-27 air to air missile:comment image

Jimmy Jim

Pinocchio done better..

Sinbad2

You can post the pic 100 times, but they are not the same and never will be.

RichardD

Go to the SF article in the link, and click on the picture and open it in another tab magnified. The left section of the debris is clearly latice.comment image?x70473

https://southfront.org/india-demands-release-of-its-pilot-while-pakistan-appears-ready-for-confrontation-photos-videos/

Sinbad2

OK I apologize it is a lattice.

Pave Way IV

Pakistan F-16 Block 52s do not use a GE F-110 engine. Saudi Block 60s are the only foreign AF that has them, AFIK. Pakistan F-16s have F-100-PW-220 or 229 upgrade with a triangular/hexagonal pattern.

comment image

The piece pictured that supposedly shows the F-16 engine came from the same series of photos taken at the Mig-21 crash site – two minutes from the previous picture. Yet nothing is said about the F-16 crash site (or at least the debris) being at the same place. I’m inclined to believe it’s just another piece of the Bison wreckage.

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RichardD

Do you have a link for the article where these pictures came from?

Pave Way IV

Defense Blog supposedly originally tweeted the section of the MiG-21 diagram, but deleted their original tweet. They have an article with the series of two timestamped photos showing the debris at the same site (and presumably part) of the BISON wreckage, but don’t mention the diagram previously tweeted. Probably (and I agree) that it could potetially be from a number of areas, not necessarily the exact section of the MiG-21 fuselage as shown.

https://defence-blog.com/news/pakistan-releases-photos-of-indian-fighter-jet-they-claim-to-have-shot-down.html

This is the highest-resolution picture of the annotated MiG diagram (and I presume the oldest), but it just links back to Defense Blog.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/india-pakistan-air-forces-clash-after-kashmir-reprisal-raid-at-least-one-fighter-shot-down.726466/page-22

RichardD

From GE:

“Currently, the F110-GE-129 powers more than 70% of today’s most advanced USAF F-16C/D aircraft”

– The F110 Engine –

https://www.geaviation.com/military/engines/f110-engine

From Wikipedia:

“Aircraft Origin Type Variant In service Notes
Combat Aircraft
Mirage 5 France attack 5EF/F/PA 90[6]
Mirage III France interceptor IIIEP/OF/RP 90[6]
Chengdu J-7 China fighter F-7PG 139[6]
JF-17 Thunder China / Pakistan multirole 100 50+ on order[6]
F-16 Fighting Falcon United States multirole F-16A/B/C/D[77] 45[6]”

– Pakistan Air Force –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Air_Force#cite_note-77

RichardD

– VIDEO Purportedly Showing Pakistani F-16 Shot Down by Indian MIG Goes Viral –

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201902281072828764-india-pakistan-air-strike/

Pave Way IV

This video kind of nails it for me, Richard. This debris does not look like a titanium bypass duct bent from concave to a convex shape. Eash half is normally forged from a single sheet, not ‘strips’. There is also no reason to paint the inside of a fan duct olive drab. The viton linings on newer engines is a dark brown. Not even sure if the older F-16 GE engines even had lined ducts. To me, this still looks like the outside skin of an aircraft, or something hung under the aircraft. Just my guess.

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RichardD

The picture in question of the purported F-16 engine may be from a different part of the engine. If you blow it up it looks like the piece in question has both internal and external ribbing judging from the small section of external view on the left hand side.

And the bottom picture in the video excerpt sequence that you’ve posted appears to also show external ribbing and lattice work covered by a sheet metal cowling. That may be some type of engine shrouding.

The pictures resemble F-16 engines more than they do Mig-21 engines. It’s also possible as you suggest that it’s not engine debris, but from another part of the aircraft.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2800/4212412111_4ff9448ca3_z.jpgcomment image?x70473

Pave Way IV

The part of the engine we’re talking about here would be an outer bypass duct or fan duct. It’s an intergral part of a turbofan engine, not just a cover. The high-strength nickle-alloy engine casing (sometimes called the compressor duct) sits inside this. The part below is from the GE 404 family, a follow-on to the F-110. GE replaced the titanium version with a composite one in the 90’s for fire control.

comment image

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1115/1.2906525

RichardD

This is a Mig-21 engine. It’s different from the wreckage.comment image

Sinbad2

What makes you that that the piece of wreckage is an engine?

RichardD

Because it looks like the picture of the engine.

Patriotic_White_American

Hahaha you’re wrong everytime and think no one notices

RichardD

You haven’t disproven anything that I’ve written, you’re a liar, loser and inflammatory idiot who I’ve disproven many times.

Ganga Prasad

Yes Lockheed Martin ia now making mig 21

RichardD

The Wikipedia article says that the Paks have A,B,C & D models. What you’re quoting only refers to some of the Pak planes, not all of them.

Sai Krishna

prove it by inventory. just by saying, I can say many things

Zionism = EVIL

comment image

RichardD

He’s talking about the Pak plane.

Zionism = EVIL

Show me the debris? An F-16 can not be hidden up the arse :) Pakistan has 150 million mobile phones and smart phones for 197 million people and there would have been a million people taking selfies. Let’s get real The Indians are pathetic liars.

RichardD

It depends where it went down and what the recovery consisted of.

Zionism = EVIL

Dude, South Asia is the most populated nosey nate land. Even if a small car accident happens a million gawking faces show up to stare. Even in the 70’s when I spent some time there, the people just started at anything, especially any incident. If a plane went down, there would have been a million gawkers taking selfies.I don’t believe the Indians as they have been caught with their pants down by a more canny enemy. That is how it goes.

H Eccles

Looks like a discarded prop from an episode of Dr Who…

RichardD

F-16 debris from being shot down by a MIG-21 using a R-27 air to air missile:comment image

d'Artagnan

That does look like an F-16 engine or fuselage. More like Russian metallurgy.

Jimmy Jim

lol

RichardD

“Pakistani officers are seen looking at the remains of the Pakistani F-16 fighter jet shot down by the Indian Air Force on Wednesday, in an image that has been circulated on social media.
Sources in the Air Force (IAF) have confirmed that metal piece seen in the image is part of the F-16 wreckage.

Those seen in the photo are commanding officers of Pakistan’s 7 Northern Light Infantry, said sources.

The plane was shot down in an aerial combat between Indian and Pakistani warplanes yesterday, the first such confrontation in 48 years”

– Wreckage Of Downed Pak F-16 Fighter Seen In PoK –

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/wreckage-of-downed-pak-f-16-seen-in-pok-2000649

Jimmy Jim

liar, liar pants on fire buy mercan we kick ass………

zara ali

Spot on!

RichardD

– VIDEO Purportedly Showing Pakistani F-16 Shot Down by Indian MIG Goes Viral –

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201902281072828764-india-pakistan-air-strike/

1691

Selfies?
In the 70’s?
Wow!

Ganga Prasad

U terrorist, u trust the words of ur fellow terrorists only

Ganga Prasad

So u r a terrorist

Heisenberg

British made Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) hawk fighter plane (A-3492) that crashed in 2018 in Odisha….

Man, even in Pakistan defense forum all this bull crap propaganda was refuted!

Zionism = EVIL

The FACT remains that Indians are telling fibs and can’t produce any evidence. If you have any PLEASE POST!

Heisenberg

Until now the only certainty i have is that an IAF MIG-21 was shoot down.
There are some some evidence that points to the AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM was in fact from Pakistan – but that doesn´t prove the F-16 was shoot down.
The rest is propaganda and is not verified by independent sources!

Zionism = EVIL

Sensible comment. I this day and age lies are easy to discredit. The Pakistanis with all their faults came out on top in this round. India will back off and its airforce is piss weak and very poorly trained or organized. Sending 1960’s Russian flying coffins against F-16 with young pilots is simple lunacy. Anyway, it is all over and Pakistan is back to normal with air traffic now open. There is lesson for countries like Syria and Iran though, hit back at bullies.

Joe Kerr

Pakistan claims the MIG-21 was shot down by a JF-17, not an F-16.

d'Artagnan

India has proved less reliable in their claims.

Jimmy Jim

USA>USA buy mercan, we kick ass….

Joe Kerr

Lick actually, as in Trump licking Adelson’s ass… while getting pumped by Netty.

Sinbad2

USA>USA buy mercan, we lick ass….

Ganga Prasad

Ur f 16 s ass was busted

Ganga Prasad

Independent sources mean western ones which will never admit that their state of the art jet was shot down by a 1960 model plane

Ganga Prasad

Sorry if We go to Pakistan to take photos of crashed f 16, jihadis like u living in Pakistan will kill us

Brother Thomas

The only thing the used F-16 missile proves is that it was fired in the direction of India. To parade it as evidence of an F-16 being shot down is less than feeble.

Zionism = EVIL

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A friend of mine just sent me photos of a dead Indian pilot which out of respect I will not post. He was burnt beyond recognition and are apparently from the SU-30 which took a direct hit from a AIM-120.

Heisenberg

That is actually a foto of the Mi-17V-5 crash site near Budgam, 7 km from the Srinagar International Airport

Zionism = EVIL

Yes, 6 dead in that and one civilian on the ground. A very bad showing for India, 2 jets and a MI-17 helo.

Zionism = EVIL

India just fired its Air Chief for telling lies and misleading the government after such pathetic showing.

Also, India on Thursday removed Air Marshal C Hari Kumar from the post of Western Air Command’s Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief.

India presents Taiwanese missile as ‘proof’ of downed Pakistani F-16: source

Ganga Prasad

So what happened to the second pilot whom imran Khan said was under treatment in Pakistan?

RichardD

You’re spamming this thread with a ton of lies and stupidity.

“As senior Indian Air Force (IAF) official Air Marshal Chandrashekharan Hari Kumar, commander-in-chief of the Western Air Command retired on February 28, reports of him being removed started floating in the Pakistani media.

Some Pakistani journalists even took to Twitter to blame the perceived move on the air duel on Wednesday between Pakistani F-16s and Indian MiG 21s and the subsequent capture of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman.

However, IAF cleared the air, thwarted the rumours and posted visuals from the senior official’s retirement ceremony on Twitter.”

– IAF commander retires, Pakistani media lies he was removed over Abhinandan’s capture –

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/iaf-commander-retires-pakistani-media-lies-he-was-removed-over-abhinandan-s-capture-1468221-2019-03-01

d'Artagnan

There is not much logic in South Asia with their claims and counter claims, but apparently Pakistan has got the best of the Indians who put on a rather shambolic performance.

Sephy

Yes, south Asians are stupids, but actually Pakistanis are the worst part of them.

zara ali

That is the logic we have seen at display since 9/11 all around the globe haven’t we? It is the same logic used by American’s and Israelis – everyone who has been infected by the spirit of Zionism does the same… for them the crow is white, as long as they say it is white, it shall be white.

Jimmy Jim

USA>USA…buy mercan, ruskie crap blown out of the sky again……

Ganga Prasad

What happened to the pilot whom imran Khan said was under treatment in Pakistan

Jimmy Jim

ho, ho, ho buy mercan, ruskie flying samovars stink..USA>USA>MAGA>MAGA

RichardD

– VIDEO Purportedly Showing Pakistani F-16 Shot Down by Indian MIG Goes Viral –

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201902281072828764-india-pakistan-air-strike/

Sephy

i understand what you are trying to say, and i really want to believe it, but sadly, those images and footage are insufficient.

RichardD

If there is conclusive or stronger evidence that it is Mig-21 rather than F-16 metal work, I haven’t seen it. The available evidence indicates that it’s F-16, not Mig-21 debris. The site was cordoned off and cleared by the Pak military quickly. And the evidenced suppressed.

Sephy

i am not denying what you are saying, but cannot accept it either. more evidence is needed to come to a conclusion.

RichardD

There are standards of conclusion. Both using the scientific method and judicial process. Using the scientific method the standards are hypothesis, theory and fact. In the US judicial process they are beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal cases, and a preponderance of evidence in civil cases, and probable cause or reasonable suspicion to initiate a criminal investigation.

The evidence in this matter meets the evidence requirements for some standards of conclusion. You can request further discovery before reaching a conclusion. With the evidence in Pak custody and the Pak’s under US investigation for civil or criminal contract terms violation. It may or may not be forth coming for public examination. In this case there are non disclosure considerations pertaining to the F-16 allegations.

It officially meets the US federal standard to initiate a preliminary investigation. Where it goes from here remains to be seen. I’ve drawn conclusions based on what’s available. If more evidence becomes available. It may confirm or change the conclusion that I’ve reached with what’s currently available.

“The US State Department is investigating claims Pakistan improperly used a US-supplied F-16 jet against India this week, Indian media claims. The jet has been a bone of contention between the two nuclear powers.”

– US looks into claims Pakistan misused F-16 fighter, as media war over Kashmir clash heats up –

https://www.rt.com/news/452849-us-pakistan-f16-india-kashmir/

“”We are aware of these reports and are seeking more information,” a State Department spokesperson said. “Due to non-disclosure agreements in Foreign Military Sales contracts, we cannot discuss the specifics of end user-agreements contained within,” Lt Col Kone Faulkner, a Defense Department spokesperson said.”

– India Shares F-16 Evidence With US to Highlight Misuse, Says Brigade and Battalion HQs Were Targeted –

https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-shares-f-16-evidence-with-us-to-highlight-misuse-says-brigade-and-battalion-hqs-were-targeted-2053143.html

RichardD

F-16 debris from being shot down by a MIG-21 using a R-27 air to air missile:comment image

RichardD

This is a Mig-21 engine. It’s different from the wreckage.comment image

Zionism = EVIL

comment image

RichardD

A lot of NATO planes have been shot down in air to air combat:

– Post–World War II air-to-air combat losses –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_combat_losses_of_United_States_military_aircraft_since_the_Vietnam_War

Zionism = EVIL

We are talking about MIG29 in Arab airforces and the dumb Indians who have not downed a SINGLE F-16 in air combat. You kids are a HOOT!

RichardD

You are trying to evade having been disproven and made a fool of so many times.

Zionism = EVIL

:) SHOW ME! ROFLMAO

RichardD

I’ve shown you many times. And you ignore the proof and go on to more stupidity and lies.

RichardD

F-16 debris from being shot down by a MIG-21 using a R-27 air to air missile:comment image

Sinbad2

The pics are of different objects.
The GE engine has a lattice type of pattern, the crumpled aluminium next to the soldier does not.

RichardD

That’s because it’s twisted around and some of it is inside out and you’re looking at the underside of it. Blow it up and look at it closer.

Ganga Prasad

He is a jihadi

RichardD

You’ve claimed a lot of things, much of which has been disproven, including on this thread.

Sinbad2

Yes but the US tends to cover up losses of American planes.
When an FA-18 was shot down in Iraq, the US wouldn’t even look for the pilot, until relatives went to the press.

RichardD

– Video: Pakistan’s false expose, which was told by MiG, it turned out to be debris of Pakistani F-16 –

https://hindi.timesnownews.com/india/video/pakistan-fake-picture-news-of-iaf-mig-fighter-jet-shot-down-paf-f16/374105

Sinbad2

Yep you were right all along, the ancient Mig-21 took out the F16.

RichardD

That single piece of debris isn’t conclusive proof. But it matches up F-16 metal work better than it does Mig-21 metal work. And if it is from a shot down F-16, the Paks are probably under pressure from the US to cover it up.

I haven’t seen anyone match it up to a Mig-21. And I’ve looked at Mig-21 pictures and haven’t seen anything comparable.

MH370

indian caught lying..pathetic
in my country there is a verb
if you cought between a snake and an indian
beat that indian first… spare the snake.

Patriotic_White_American

I want India to win but Pakistan chewed up those trashy Russian Migs that were built in the same era as the superior F16

Joe Kerr

Pakistan says it used a JF-17 to shoot down the MIG-21.

KOTLEBA POMAHA CAPUTOVEJ

the evil moslems killed 40 indian sildiers.
india has the right to act, eg bomb them.
but india holds the wrong end of the stick.

Joe Kerr

JF-17 or F-16? Pakistan says it used a JF-17, not an F-16, to down the MIG-21:

From Wiki: On 27 Feb 2019, during the tense standoff between India and Pakistan, it was reported that Pakistani JF-17s shot down two Indian MiG-21 operating in Pakistan’s airspace over the disputed region of Kashmir.[121][122] Indian sources claim to have lost only one MiG-21 while shooting down a Pakistani F-16.[123] Pakistan’s ISPR rejected India’s statement, stating that Pakistan used no F-16s in the whole exercise.[124] Meanwhile, a Twitter post reportedly shows PAF Squadron Leader, Hasan Siddiqui, taking credit for the downing one of the Indian MiG-21.[125] The aircraft behind him resembles a JF-17, owing to its air intakes.[126]

Sinbad2

Would the J-17 have been armed with American AIM120 AMRAAM missiles?

comment image

Sinbad2

Over at Sputnik they are saying the now confirmed shooting down of an F16 by the old Mig21 may have an impact on India’s decision to buy F16’s.

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