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DECEMBER 2021

In The Bull’s Eye: Turkish, Not Saudi, Schoolbooks

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In The Bull’s Eye: Turkish, Not Saudi, Schoolbooks

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Submitted by Dr. James M. Dorsey

In a sign of the times, Turkish schoolbooks have replaced Saudi texts as the bull’s eye of criticism of supremacist and intolerant curricula in the Muslim world.

Once  a model of secularism with an education system that taught evolution, cultural openness, and tolerance towards minorities that included Kurdish as a minority language, Turkish curricula have increasingly replaced those concepts with notions of jihad, martyrdom in battle and a neo-Ottoman and pan-Turkist ethno-religious worldview, according to a just released analysis of 28 textbooks.

The report by the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education (Impact-se), an Israeli research group, and the Henry Jackson Society in Britain, asserted that recent curricula, in a country that is a member of NATO and long aspired for European Union membership, include anti-American and anti-Armenian attitudes, display “sympathy for the motivations of ISIS and Al-Qaeda,” focus exclusively on Sunni Muslim teachings, and replace electives such as Kurdish with religious courses.

Kurds are believed to account for 15-20 per cent of the Turkish population.

The textbooks promote concepts such as “Turkish World Domination” and the Turkish or Ottoman “Ideal of the World Order,” the report said.

“Education is a prime pillar in (President Recep Tayyip) Erdogan’s efforts to drape the country in the cloak of Sharia… The Ministry of Education has been pressuring citizens to conform to conservative Islamic practices in public schools,” commented Turkey scholar Soner Cagaptay in a forward to the study.

The study was released as Turkey was attempting to repair relations with Europe and Middle Eastern states, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Israel bruised by its aggressive assertiveness in Libya, Syria, the Caucasus, and the Eastern Mediterranean.

Mr. Erdogan spoke on Friday in a video conference to European Council President Charles Michel and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen in advance of next week’s European summit that is scheduled to discuss relations with Turkey.

The conference came a day after the EU shelved plans to blacklist senior executives of Turkey’s state-owned Turkish Petroleum Corporation (TPAO) in retaliation for Turkish drilling for natural gas in disputed waters in the eastern Mediterranean.

The report is likely to add to skepticism about an 11-point human rights action plan unveiled by Mr. Erdogan earlier this month that he said would bolster freedoms and legal protections.

Mr. Erdogan has undermined freedom of the press and the independence of the judiciary and arrested thousands on often flimsy charges since he defeated a failed military coup in 2016. As a result, Turkey ranks today as one of the world’s foremost jailers of journalists.

Turkish police this week detained several officials of the pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Democratic Party (HDP), days after a top public prosecutor demanded the party’s dissolution for alleged links to Kurdish nationalist militants.

Parliament this week also expelled an HDP deputy, undermining Mr. Erdogan’s effort to suggest that he is adhering to values projected by Europe and US President Joe Biden.

Mr. Biden, since coming to office in January, has kept Mr. Erdogan in limbo by refraining to give him the customary head-of-government call. White House press secretary Jen Psaki said last week that Mr. Biden would call Mr. Erdogan “at some point.”

Critics link the backslide in Turkish schoolbooks to Mr. Erdogan’s Islamist inclinations and support for the Muslim Brotherhood that has found a home in Istanbul since Egypt’s brutal crackdown on the group in 2013.

The fact that Turkey this week cautioned Brotherhood figures and the group’s Istanbul-based media to tone down their rhetoric was going to do little to convince them as well as Egypt, Gulf states and Israel that the leopard was changing its spots.

Mr. Erdogan is walking a fine line. His efforts to patch up differences with his detractors threaten to undermine his claim to leadership of the Muslim world in competition with Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Iran, and Indonesia.

Mr. Erdogan’s projection of himself as the primary defender of Islamic causes has garnered him significant street credibility in various Muslim-majority countries.

The reorientation of Turkey’s curriculum serves his aim of raising a ‘pious generation’ at home as well as his positioning of Turkey internationally.

Yet, references in Turkish schoolbooks to Jews and Christians as infidels rather than the common reference, ‘People of the Book,’ may go down well with segments of Muslim public opinion but call into question his efforts to dial down the rhetoric and appear more cooperative and constructive.

Fact of the matter is that the textbooks, despite positive references to Hebrew, Jewish civilization and, for the first time, the Holocaust, contrast starkly with the latest, reformed curricula in Saudi Arabia and the UAE as well as efforts by Indonesia’s Nahdlatul Ulama, the world’s largest Muslim civil society movement, to remove legal categories such as infidels from the faith’s jurisprudence.

The contrast with Saudi Arabia is particularly stark given that improvements in Saudi textbooks is the one bright spot in the kingdom’s otherwise tarnished effort to portray itself as a moderate and tolerant Muslim leader that has put ultra-conservative, supremacist concepts behind it and embraced human rights and the rule of law.

Impact-se and Human Rights Watch last month reported for the first time in two decades of post-9/11 pressure on Saudi Arabia to remove supremacist references to Jews, Christians, and Shiites that the kingdom had made significant progress in revising textbooks.

The two groups focussed in separate reports on explicit references to other religions but noted that further revisions were needed to eliminate language that disparages practices associated with religious minorities, particularly Shiite Muslims and Sufis, sects viewed as heretic by ultra-conservatives.

By the same token, the UAE last year amended its textbooks as it forged diplomatic relations with Israel. “The treaty is not just presented as a fact in the textbook. Students are presented with the religious, ethical and national reasons to support the agreement and employ critical thinking in completing an exercise about the importance of peace-making,” Impact-se CEO Marcus Sheff said.

“The idea that jihad war is now part of the Turkish curriculum, that martyrdom in battle is now glorified, might not be surprising given what we know about Erdogan … But seeing it in black and white is quite a shock,” Mr. Sheff added in a separate interview, noting that the president has fired some 21,000 teachers and arrested large numbers of academics in recent years. “There was no reason to think he wouldn’t try to influence textbooks,” Mr. Sheff said.

Dr. James M. Dorsey is an award-winning journalist and a senior fellow at Nanyang Technological University’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore and the National University of Singapore’s Middle East Institute as well as an Honorary Senior Non-Resident Fellow at Eye on ISIS

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Dino

The report by the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education (Impact-se), an Israeli research group, and the Henry Jackson Society in Britain.comment image

Proud Hindu

If turkey becomes Islamic it can say goodbye to progress

Dino

Just like UAE and Saudi Arabia you Indians flock to right? 😂😂😂🖕🖕

Proud Hindu

Yo nigga

christianblood

There is an Arabic proverb that says “kullu kalb yarji’u azaluhu” and that is what Turkey is doing!

Porc Halal

What’s the meaning of that proverb?

christianblood

It means: every dog returns to its origins!

Porc Halal

Ok, which fits perfectly in the case of the turds

Thanks mate!

Mustafa Mehmet

Look hindu no 1 but no 1 can change the kemalisim. In Türkiye different leaders comes and goes end of today they can’t change anything army watching them

The Objective

The Turkish military is permanently changed. I do admire Kamal Ataturk for his bravery, but he didn’t get everything right. The Westerners are out to destroy Islam in Turkey like they did in Spain. However, the true Muslim in Turkey have always opposed this. Erdogan only expresses the wish of majority Turks. Erdogan has been reshuffling the military for years, and now Islam has a strong representation. the military lost their one chance to take back power in the coup. Erdogan called it a blessing because the military is highly unlikely to take power in Turkey again. With time, most of the Turkish soldiers will be true Muslims, and will not rebel against a pro-Islamic ruler.

Porc Halal

It’s good that you recognize this bluntly! … The Biased muslim … and please stop calling you the opposite of what you really are!

The Objective

“poor muslims … I feel sorry for you … your cause has been doomed to failure from the beginning”
LOL.
we’ll see.

Porc Halal

Will see what ?! … that you are going to kill all “infidels” under sharia law as your pedofile self proclaimed “prophet” dictates you to do??!! … dream on you ****** ****!

Hind Abyad

Prostitute Netanyahu want to be called Aby Hair..

Ahson

‘becomes’…????….. its an Al-Qaeda country! wake the f-up!!!! And what progress? its a NATO jihadi muppet. Look at the caption pic…..he’s sitting there teaching these hendu-pak girls how to fukkin jihad suicide.

Βούδας

Becomes? Are you blind or what? Erdogan replacing schools with Mosques since the day he was first elected!

The Objective

And that was how he quadrupled Turkey’s economic growth in less than a decade.

Porc Halal

Are nuts?! Turkey IS islamic!

Volvo

moslems are minor to every other cultural group.
let them be, as it is.

Hind Abyad

Stupid and illiterate.Turkey is not Arab.
”The Islamic Golden Age”
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-hccc-worldcivilization/chapter/the-islamic-golden-age/

The Objective

but you don’t need to insult the Turks if you are Muslim. We are brothers despite our disagreements.

Porc Halal

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Hind Abyad

I’m Christian from ME i know Jabotinsky was Editor of ‘Young Turks’ paper in 1915, Israel has monuments thanking Ataturk for killing Christians.
comment image comment image

Porc Halal

This is what islam brought to the world! …

Porc Halal

Islamic fairy tale … not even those who made it up don’t believe in it

Hind Abyad

Stay in you crass ignorance
🤣

Porc Halal

It’s exactly the oposite … I am outside the cone (of ignorance) … no worries, if you say that are christian from ME , I understand you … don’t wanna be in your place though …

Hind Abyad

Not your business

Porc Halal

Exactly! … so , I was right… take care buddy

The Objective

We ruled the world for more than 700 years in a row. And we’ll rule again. How long has America been the World power? Not up to a 100 years and it’s already in decline.
The next world super power after America is a Muslim empire not China or Russia.

Ahson

you ruled no one! Yous a hendu-pak. Remember? A muzlim dalit of Pakestan, backing turkish Al-Qaeda guppu now because the GCC wahabbi have dumped you in favor of hendu no?…..lol. Ain’t that the truth?

The Objective

Turkey’s economic and military progress started under an Islamic government. Read something about Erdogan’s miraculous economic success. Under your Western puppet dogs, Turkey was fully dependent on Europe and America for over 70% of its military needs. But in less than two decades after Erdogan took power, that figure has dwindled to less than 30%. That convinced the Turks that Islamists make better leaders when given the chance. Islamists want to confront the bullies (Russia, U.S.A., China). But Puppets want to appease them.

Jens Holm

Twisting some milimeters like that should be compensated or done by more local sekularisme. I dont think it will. By that it only temporary has any positive effect as well as the opposite might be there too.

The main problems is most Turks still are in 1923 with the Lausane Kemalisme, where Turks as a good thing finally stopped internal slavery.

I certainly hope for someone else and at least the big local parlaments gets more freedom to handle things and also becomes more responsible.

We in Denmark still remember a lot of bad things according a lot of things. We thank him for closing the Turkish schools, so the Turkish citicens loose theior ancient roots and becolme danes as they should be.

But his blame for Our Goverment dont control the press is confirmed again and again. The most vital for parlamentarisme is fee PARLE. He seemes to know that very well and even jail polæiticians, whcih get 5 or 7 million votes instead of respecting the voters for their ideas and the mandate to speak for and against.

As I see it Turkey spread out too much. Erdogan forget KEEP.

Pave Way IV

Erdogan forget KEEP.

?

Jens Holm

I think sp. Its my opimion. He and AKP has spread out too much and now try to keep.

Spreading out less and more focus on production and by that very much GDP would be a sonsolidation for safer keep.

Βούδας

There’s no turning back from where Turkey is heading. Secularism had died long ago. The entire region will become islamic again if the big powers won’t intervene quickly.

Hye

California is catching up, it’s becoming so turkish/islamic that even the Mexicans are converting!

The Objective

They tried to intervene with the coup but failed. They tried threats of sanctions but also failed to force a change. EU risks over $200 billion in investment in Turkey if it decided to launch an all-out economic war. Plus, NATO needs Turkey – the gateway to the middle east from Europe.
Actually, your big powers are doing all they can. but Islam is not communism. You have the right to try though.

Tommy Jensen

Us and Europe has been busy in Ukraine making Russia into an enemy and focused on the fight against NS-2, and thus completely oversaw the 80 million Turks under cover were being prepared to invade and take over EU as trained Jihadists.
Erdogan has been howling and whining on the doormat outside EU’s door to get in for 25 years without any result.
Enough is enough!

The Objective

No, man. I’ll rephrase your comment: “80 million of Turks are being prepared to liberate their homeland from Western corrupting influence, and to help other Muslims liberate theirs”
We don’t give a fuck about Europe. But we’ll liberate our people no matter how long it takes.

johnny rotten

The Muslim Brotherhood plays on the same team as the Wahabis, both play for the Foreign Office, that is, who created them, and London has been in the pocket of Jewish bankers for 300 years + whoever wants to solve the issue of Islamist terrorism must look in London, Langley and Tel Aviv, Erdogan is just an apprentice who works for a boss he doesn’t even know.

Willing Conscience (The Truths

Erdogan is the head of the worldwide Muslim brotherhood, and both Erdogan and the Brotherhood hate the Jews, they don’t work for them, they want to annihilate them, maybe you should read some of their literature.

Hye

Poor joos…

The Objective

You pathetic liar. Sunni Muslims don’t want to annihilate the Jews. Maybe the Shiites do, but Genocide is condemned by Sharia regardless of whether the victims are Jews, Christians, pagans, etc. The Muslim Brotherhood and Salafists are conservative movements to which 90% of Sunnis adhere to. Both share the same ideology: they want a return to Islam as it was practiced by the Prophet and his companions. That’s what we want. That’s what an overwhelming majority of Sunnis want. That’s why they keep voting for brotherhood and pro-Muslim leaders whenever democracy gets a chance. And that’s why your puppets are very afraid of democracy. The only difference between the Muslim Brotherhood and Salafist (Salafists dominat ALL Arab countries, and majority of world Islamic scholars are Salafists (Zakir Naik, Khalid Yasin, Bilal Philips, Mufti Ismail Menk, and many others)). Where the Muslim Brotherhood and Salafists differ is how to attain the goal of establishing Sharia on Muslim lands. Salafists prefer to teach and preach to the people about Allah and Islam, so that when the population reformed, it’ll cause a change in Leadership (I think theirs is the better approach). The Muslim Brotherhood on the other had prefers to actively work to change the leadership even without first reforming the masses on Islamic norms. But they don’t advocate for a violent seizure of power neither do they take up arms against the government (see Egypt). However, they do support non-violent means of exerting pressure on the government, especially through protests.

The Muslim Brotherhood and Salafists are inspired primarily by the interference of the Kuffaar in Muslim lands and the lack of Sharia in governance. They want an end to the current unislamic rule in Arab and Muslim countries and want to see dictators and monarchies ended. Not to annihilate the Jews like you lied. Your Russian allies (Iran and its Shiite proxies) are the ones who constantly talk of annihilating the Jews. And their wish is completely unislamic. at no time did the Shiites ever represent Islamic values.

Read it now and remember: Fundamentalist, Conservatives or whatever you call those who want a return to original Islam, what the Muslim brotherhood and Salafists want is to liberate Muslim lands from Western puppets, dictators, monarchies, and Invaders like Russia and the U.S.A. If what you said about genociding Jews is from ignorance, now you know. I’ll rebuke you whenever you tell lies like this even if we agree on certain issues. But if you still think that that is the main aims of the Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists, then we can discuss that further, and I’ll refer you to classical works of the Salaf and Brotherhood which rejects any form of injustice against any living thing, including plants and animals.

Willing Conscience (The Truths

Again you misquote me, I’VE NEVER EVER SAID SUNNI MUSLIMS WANT TO ANNIHILATE THE JEWS, though some of them do, I said this,

“both Erdogan and the Brotherhood hate the Jews, they don’t work for them, they want to annihilate them”,

I said the Brotherhood buddy, read it again.
Here’s a few quotes to enlighten you to their real intentions, this is what the Israelis say about them.
……

Quotes from Muslim Brotherhood:

“We pray Allah to take this oppressive, Zionist band of people…do not spare a single one of them … count their numbers and kill them down to the very last one.”
Spiritual Head, Yusuf al-Qaradawi.”

“We will continue to raise our banner of Jihad against the Jews, our first and foremost enemies.”
Muslim Brotherhood Supreme Leader, Mohamed Badi.”

https://jfedsrq.org/iai/muslim-brotherhood

“The Muslim Brotherhood condemns all forms of normalization with the Zionist enemy, and all the actions leading up to the Zionist-American deal, and confirms that all Arab regimes involved in the ‘Deal of the Century’ are anti-Arab peoples and traitors to the Palestinian cause,” the Muslim Brotherhood said on its Facebook page Tuesday”.
“The statements make it clear that, to the Brotherhood and to Hamas, the problem is not Israeli government actions or policies: it is the country’s existence. They believe that Jews are the enemies of Allah, as countless videos on Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV show.

“Killing the occupiers [Israelis] is worship that Allah made into law,” a 2012 propaganda music video produced by Hamas’ military wing, the Qassam Brigades, and translated by Palestine Media Watch, says. “Killing Jews is worship that draws us close to Allah,” Arabic text on a sign in the video stated.

The Hamas charter quotes Muslim Brotherhood founder Hasan al-Banna: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”

These antisemitic views predate Israel’s establishment.

Al-Banna called Jews and Zionists “the enemies of Allah” in his book Fee Qaafilatil-Ikhwaan al-Muslimeen.

He reached out to Sheikh Muhammad Amin al-Husseini, then the grand mufti of Jerusalem, in 1935, with the aim of helping him fight Jewish migration. Brotherhood leaders launched a fundraising campaign for Palestinian jihadists and sent weapons to use against Jews.

The Brotherhood took a strong pro-Nazi stance, and al-Husseini went to Germany to meet with Adolf Hitler. He told Hitler that Jews were the common enemy of Islam and the Nazis. Al-Husseini shared al-Banna’s ideas with Hitler, and served as an intermediary between the Brotherhood founder and the Nazi dictator.”
……

From my perspective the people you follow are just as bad as the Nazis, you both have an unquestionable belief in yourselves, and you also have the will to impose those beliefs on everyone else.

And you’re wrong when you say the most fervent zealots are the bravest fighters and never surrender, I saw Islam’s best and bravest fighters wearing dresses, Isis fighters were brave and they fought very well if things were going their way, but when they weren’t the zealotry faded and the dresses came out of the closet.
The only really brave people who never give up the fight are the people fighting to save their children, they trump the religious zealots every time.

The Objective

I was investigating your claims as I read them. And just as I expected, they are largely twisted for disinformation. I’ll deconstruct them one after the other logically:
1). First, Israel does not list the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization. At least up until 2015 only these countries listed it as a terrorist organization: Bahrain, Egypt, Russia, Syria, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
If Hassan Albanna actually made that false claim you quote from some vague suspicious source, the Israeli government would surely be the first to list the MB as terrorist organization. Hassan Albanna was assassinated in 1950, which means he would have made that statement in the early 90s, giving the Israeli government plenty of time to list his organization as terrorists.
2). The source which you quoted is the ONLY source on the internet that made such a claim. Had it been true, other sources would surely have quoted Albanna on their websites, especially Russian and Arab League sources. Do a precision google search of that statement and you’ll find ONLY once source showing up in google search. Secondly, your anonymous source claimed that the MB are responsible or at least complicit in 9/11. But we see that the U.S has not labelled it terrorist organization despite your belief that they took part in training those who hijacked the plane.
3). Your source does not quote ANY newspaper or book in which this statement exists, despite the existence of newspapers during Hassan Albanna’s time. In fact, Western media sources would have widely reported it due to the significance of Egypt and the tumultuous experiences with the MB.

Your other comment that calls for moderation is this: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”
First you must understand that Hamas does not represent the Muslim brotherhood.
I want you to note that there is no mention of “Jews” in this quote. I also want you to note that it says, “just as it obliterated others before it”. this quote is referring to the Israeli government. It would not be the first time Muslims conquer Jerusalem from the Jews or Christians. But conquering Jerusalem is NOT equal to genocide. Just like America conquered Saddam’s government, that’s exactly what it means.

Every Muslim considers the Jews our enemy. The Quran says: “strongest in enmity against the believers (Muslims) will you find the Jews”. But this does not call for their genocide, because the Quran directly or indirectly forbids genocide in more 100 places in the Quran. When America says Russia is their enemy, does that mean the U.S wants a genocide of Russians? why then do you translate Muslims calling Jews their enemy to mean expressing a desire for genocide.

Your other claims about ISIS does not deserve any comment from me. But I’ll tell you that ISIS is a Christian project led by the U.S. America only started fighting ISIS when things didn’t go as planned. There is no justification whatsoever for the actions of ISIS in the Quran or Sunnah. In fact, the world Sunni scholars jointly rebuked Al-Baghdadi for his deception and outright lies to gain support from ignorant Muslims. You can read everything about the true Islamic stand on ISIS here: http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/

About normalizaion, the general Muslim public of U.A.E, Egypt, Bahrain and others rejected it. Polls did show that the average citizens of this country didn’t approave of their government’s decison. So those normalizations are between Israel and the Arab governments (which are not the true representative of public wish in their countries). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/26/what-do-ordinary-arabs-think-about-normalizing-relations-with-israel/
So if the Muslim Brotherhood did say that, then it is expressing the true wish of the Arab Muslims (another reason that they are on the same page as the Muslim umma).

I realize that you can say anything you think will help your dictator, Bashar Al-Assad over his enemies (the majority of Syrians). But such outright lies only reveals your true evil nature and that you’re one of the regime insiders spreading propaganda to prop up dictatorship in Syria.

Willing Conscience (The Truths

Israel, the US, and many EU Nations are either considering, or currently in the process of designating the MB as a terrorist organization, and if the US does the rest will fall in line.
Israel already fights Hamas which is just a front for the Muslim Brotherhood.

“Palestinian Islamic politics have been dominated in the past three decades by the Muslim Brotherhood, later known as the Hamas. With its seizure of the Gaza Strip, Hamas came to be a virtual government, competing for leadership of all Palestinians on a near-equal basis with Fatah and its Palestinian Authority (PA) regime. Thus, Hamas can be said to be the only Muslim Brotherhood group in the world that also forms a government and rules over large numbers of people.”

“Al-Qaradawi is sometimes described as a “moderate Islamist”.[18] Some of his views, such as his condoning of Palestinian suicide bombings against Israelis, have caused reactions from governments in the West:[19] he was refused an entry visa to the United Kingdom in 2008,[20] and barred from entering France in 2012″
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_al-Qaradawi

What you call a moderate Islamist is what I call a terrorist, because encouraging someone to go out and kill themselves and others in a just cause isn’t a moderate action, it’s evil, he should put on a bomb vest and put his money where his own mouth is, not ask mentally disturbed people to do it for him.
I’m starting to think you may be quite evil too, which is in stark contrast to what I initially believed, you’re truly showing your true colors lately, and yes I do consider that you and all your MB friends are true enemies of the free world.
In fact you’re just two faced oppressors in disguise, with one hand you appear bearing gifts, but in the other hand you hold a dagger.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH MODERATE ISLAM, whether it’s Sunni doctrines, Shia doctrines, or any other Muslim doctrines, but Sharia Law isn’t moderate at all, so if it’s included in any Islamic groups claims they’re a moderate version of Islam, they’re lying, especially if it’s applied to their criminal laws.
I just checked and found most Islamic nations don’t allow Sharia law to dictate their criminal code, and many of them don’t even allow Sharia Law to dictate civil code either, that’s what I call moderate Islam.
Turkey used to be like that but it’s changing under Erdogan, you’ll get Sharia law there too before he’s finished, and then you’ll ne able to stone all the adulterers, chop off thieves hands, tell women what they can and can’t do, and either convert the unbelievers to Islam or oppress them with taxes and endow them with a second class citizenship status.
Why are you trying to push MB doctrines here on SF, you don’t have a willing audience here, this is the last place you should expect any sympathy for your cause.

The Objective

All you tell me now is about terrorist designations. This is quite different from the genocide lies you were peddling, which prompted me to reply.

I’m not denying that the Muslim Brotherhood is an enemy of the West or Israel. I’m only correcting your belief about some genocidal agenda against the Jews – something any true Muslim will reject, because the Quran condemns murder in uncountable places. As far as the Quran and Sunnah are concerned, nothing can ever justify genocide – no matter the crime of a race there is no collective punishment in Islam. The guilty should always be separated from the innocent even if they lived under the same roof. You can’t bring things into Islam that are not there. We’ll always reject it like I’m doing right now.

Most Muslims and every true Muslim considers the U.S a terrorist nation. “Terrorist” is now synonymous to “enemy”. So because the U.S.A labels the MB terrorist doesn’t make America right.

There is no such thing as “Moderate Islam”. There’s only Islam. One Quran, One Sunnah, and every true Muslim must obey every single verse of the Quran otherwise his faith is incomplete. Your so-called moderates cherry pick or are in outright rebellion at some commandments.

Under no circumstance does the Qur’an permit suicide. Whoever deliberately takes his life goes to hell straight, according to the Quran. But a suicide mission is allowed: where you take your gun and face a fortified or a numerically stronger enemy to kill or be killed. Many Sahabas (companions of the prophet) did this. But none committed suicide in the name of Islam.

It’s your rebellious ideology that is evil. Spreading fornication, adultery, and all kinds of immorality in the name of freedom. Why don’t you give your daughters and sisters to any man to fornicate with since you’re such a big fan of freedom? We control our women because we love them and want them to be safe. Many Christian teens in my area die from abortion, have unwanted pregnancies and remain unmarried as a result. Hardly would you see such among the Muslim population. And that’s because of the discipline Islam instills in them. They are properly covered and only uncover themselves to their husbands. Unlike the Christian seductresses who are clothed but naked, spreading immorality in the society along with diseases.

Alcohol is killing 261 Americans EVERY DAY. Smoking kills 1315 Americans EVERY DAY. That’s your kind of freedom. Over 2000 women are a victim of rape in America EVERY DAY. Aren’t these statistics shocking enough for you? If this is the kind of freedom you are trying to force on the Muslim world, expect to fight us forever. The real drivers of rape, unwanted pregnancies, abortion deaths, and diseases like HIV, is the immoral dressings of your Christian and Western women, which your governments fail to control. They can’t even ban alcohol and cigarette despite the shocking deaths and diseases from that. 80% of HIV victims are infected through pre- or extra- marital sex. Many other sexually transmitted diseases. 2,854,838 (2.8 million) Americans died in 2019 ALONE. This is more deaths than the wars of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria combined. Despite the advancements in health and technology, despite the infrastructure, food, safety and other life-support measures.

True Muslims don’t like this kind of destructive freedom. The human being needs to be regulated on morality he’ll commit excesses that harms himself and the society.

Islamic nations may not allow Shariah now (because most are ruled by tyrants and cowards). But they are still different from the West. Even Egypt control immorality to a great degree, thanks to the Islamic spirit in its population. It is a crime in Egypt to isolate yourself with a girl you’re not closely related to biologically. This holds true for other Arab Muslim countries – except Syria.
They just don’t practice Sharia in full.

Willing Conscience (The Truths

“We control our women because we love them and want them to be safe”,

Is that why you control them, who’d have guessed, I suppose that makes you the good guys then.
Here in the western democracies we don’t need/have to control women to keep them safe, we just need to find lockup and punish the evil bastards women need to be protected from.
In Australia we kicked out a radical Cleric because he described Aussie woman as “uncovered meat”, insinuating they were guilty of tempting men into doing evil things just because they weren’t covered from head to toe. What a joke, he’s just a sick perverted rapist, women can wear bikini’s in front of a normal guy and he doesn’t want to rape her no matter how gorgeous she is, he may want to introduce himself in the hope of getting to know her better, but he’s definitely not overcome with violent urges just because she so beautiful and nearly naked. Men only need to protect women from that weirdo Cleric and people like him. I saw a program on Egyptian TV where that same Cleric said something similar on the show and the audience booed him, the people who booed him were the real moderate Muslims.
I’m not a Christian but some of the things Jesus said were truly pious, and one thing in particular comes to mind, I don’t remember the exact words but it went something like this,

“let he who is not guilty of any sin cast the first stone”

So who in the world is left to cast the first stone.
In some ways it reminds me of the adultery laws the Prophet Muhammad decreed, you can only prove adultery if you see the adulterous mans penis inside your wife’s vagina, it’s not enough to see them under the sheets together bouncing up and down, you actually have to see the whole damn lot with your own eyes. That makes it extremely difficult to prove an Adultery allegation according to the Prophets decree.
Just like Jesus the Prophet Muhammad had a conscience, and obviously both Jesus and Muhammad used their God given conscience’s to understand what God was really telling them about mercy and forgiveness, so you should try to be a bit more like Jesus and the Prophet Muhammad.
Do you think you have any right to throw the first stone, does anyone, I know I don’t.
Only God can judge us for the sins we’ve committed, the holy book you believe in can’t, and the “uncovered meat” mad Clerics you seem to blindly follow can’t either, and nor can anyone else alive on the world, that’s Gods job alone.

The Objective

So you conveniently ignored all you said about Sunni Muslims planning genocide against Jews. Anyway, I’ll assume that myth of your is now successfully debunked. You also said nothing about my statistics. The statistics proof which legal system is better: Islamic Sharia or Western legal systems. Did you know that 26% of Americans aged 18 and above have mental disorder in their lives?

You want to punish those men who rape women while ignoring the causative agent of rape? Well, we Muslims are more interested in “preventing” not “punishing” rape cases. We don’t want to luck up people in jail. We want to help them avoid commuting that crime in the first place. So we tell the women, make it easier for yourself and the potential rapist not be a victim of rape. Cover any sensitive parts of your bodies. You don’t gain anything by exposing yourself like a harlot. And you don’t lose anything by covering yourself. You actually gain a lot and help the society by dressing modestly.

Rape carries the death penalty in Islam. Go to any Muslim society and rape a woman (especially one dressed modestly). You’d be lucky if the locals don’t kill you. They won’t beat you. They’ll actually kill you. In Islam, we are very strict in protecting our women. By our law, we don’t even allow them to travel alone. A male relative that is healthy and strong should always accompany them to any distant journey and then come back once she arrives there safe. This is a law that every family must uphold.

In Saudi Arabia, there is a social police called the “mutawa”. They roam around to ensure women safety. You don’t want to rape a woman in Saudi Arabia. You had better do that in Australia where you are more likely to go scot-free or be given a jail sentence instead of death. Generally, a Muslim society is not an ideal place for rapists.

In Egypt, you’ll be punished for isolating yourself with a lady, unless if she someone you cannot have sex with. Isolation is easier to proof than adultery or fornication, and it doesn’t carry the death penalty. Maybe a short stay in the police cell – like a few weeks or fine. Even El-sisi upholds this centuries-old law.

Our dress codes is the reason why not a SINGLE Muslim country appears in this statistics despite there being 50 Muslim majority countries in the world: https://www.statista.com/chart/13668/where-babies-are-born-outside-of-marriage/

Islam is the reason why we are not dying at such a high rate as your Western civilized and developed countries. Russian population was in decline – thanks to alcohol and your Western fucked-up ideologies which you want to impose on Muslims. We’re hard-wired from childhood to impulsively reject such pervasive and socially destructive ideologies you’re preaching.

The most important thing is that the whole world combined will never succeed in permanently changing the Muslim way of life. This is a promise the prophet (S.A.W) made.

Ahson

You need to gird it up a bit. Be direct and suggest a reversion no? Why argue with jihadists based on false premise? A few generations ago these guys were all dalit, and you know it. So don’t hold back…..be upfront. Their IMF/ Chinese debt is greater than their sum total GDP, as we speak. That tells me they are done! There’s no way out of this serfdom predicament. Same same with turkish guppu. Are you surprised though it ended up this way?…….shit I’m not. What happens to toady’s?

The Objective

You are liar my friend. Anyone who follows events in the Muslim world will easily see that the Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists are not working for the West or anyone other than Islam. They both believe that Muslim countries should be governed according to Sharia. They both believe that Muslim countries should unite such that an attack on one is an attack on all, whether economic, political, military, psychological or in whatever form. Jihad and Martyrdom are fundamental to Islam. When you attack us, we fight back – that’s what Jihad is. Martyrdom is the willingness to die in that cause of defending Islam and Muslims anywhere.
In order to tarnish the image of Islam, the Western world, Russia and other enemies of Islam promote the narrative that Jihad is defined as the activities of ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-shabab, etc. True Muslims don’t give a fuck about your own definition of Jihad. And no amount of propaganda, criticism, invasions, or threats will make us back down. We are getting stronger and more capable of defending our countries, while you get weaker and less capable of invading us. The ISIS and Al-Qaeda rats you use in destabilizing our societies have been rejected by more than 98% of Muslims worldwide and we’ll never accept them because they were never part of us and will never be. The real Muslims you’re up against are the the likes of the Turkish government, Qataris, Pakistanis, Malaysians, Libyans, Somalis, Pashtuns, and hundreds of millions of others who’ve awakened from their slumber and are working to restore our true position in the World. Your puppet dogs in our societies will fall one after the other no matter how hard they try clinging to power. They are currently finding it increasingly difficult to govern, and this situation will get worse until they fall.

If the religious fundamentalists (Salafis and the Brotherhood) are Western or Jewish agents, then why are the West and Israel complaining about them? Why are they complaining about the promotion of Jihad and Martyrdom in education systems? Why are they sanctioning Turkey and threatening Qatar. Why do they oppose us in Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E, and other countries? Why are they afraid of democracy (which will surely bring us to power).

I think you lack the mental capacity to correctly diagnose what’s going on in the Muslim world.

Allah allowed the coup in Egypt to succeed (temporarily) to teach us a lesson. Turkey learned well, otherwise the second coup would have succeeded against Muslims in Turkey. Erdogan had already prepared a purge of the military, and was going to execute it just a week or so before the coup. The Western dogs in the military realized it and were forced to act prematurely in their coup plans, leading to the failure of the coup.
The Egyptian coup also prompted the true Muslims in Turkey to intervene in Libya to stop another coup against a pro-Muslim government. And right now, no one can argue that the chances of ANY Sisi-like Munafiq ever imposing dictatorship on Libyans is dead for good. If any threat of dictatorship reemerges against the current Libyan government, we’ll be back in full force to end it.
The next country now is Syria. 80 – 85% of Syrians are Sunnis – which means we have majority support, and should democracy prevail, we’ll win. I think Turkey should remain in Syria for the next 100 years if that’s what it takes to end dictatorship there. We must not give in to Russia’s bullying. We should be prepared to defend those 80% Sunnis even at the cost of war with Russia (because Russia lacks the power to forcibly reinstate Assad’s rule over all of Syria). And if Russia is willing to initiate a war with Turkey over Syria, then so should Turkey be willing to fight in defense of our DEAR Syrian Muslim brethren. Idlib will remain a challenge as long as Assad rejects democracy. Neither can Russia defeat the Turkish military on Syrian soil. Bombing rebels and ISIS is one thing, but fighting a professional air force, missile force, navy, and drone super power is an entirely different ballgame. We are closer to the battlefield, which means we can move every single war equipment to the front-lines. Plus there’s the support of Pakistan, Qatar, Azerbaijan and Libya as backup.

We also don’t need America in Syria: America needs us. Biden can choose between Democracy in Syria, or Dictatorship controlled by Iran and Russia – his choice. If he chooses democracy, then he has to end support for the Kurds and resume cooperation with Turkey. But if he choose Dictatorship, then he should withdraw ALL U.S forces from Syria and let Turkey deal with it (starting with the Kurds). Time is on our side. Our only worry is the suffering of Syrians. But they’ve already sacrificed too much to let go now.

Yemen should be relinquished to the back-burner. As long as Saudi Arabia continue to oppose Turkey, Erdogan should abandon Saudi Arabia to its war in Yemen. Neither the Saudis nor the Houthis can win this war without significant support from an external party that decisively tips the scales in one direction. If Saudi Arabia changes its behavior towards Turkey, maybe it’ll get some help. Supplying drones can be ideal.

daniel

Impact-se is Mossad backed and Henry Jackson society is CIA backed, is this New SF?

Willing Conscience (The Truths

Erdogan is the leader of the worldwide Muslim Brotherhood, he tries to distance himself form this accusation but the Arab league who hate the Muslim Brotherhood have accused him of being their leader, and they should know who the leader of their biggest enemy is.
And Russia want’s these pieces of crap to be a part of the next Syrian Government, they’ve included them in the political process pursuant to resolution 2254, and that’s despite the fact Assad keeps saying the Muslim Brotherhood is Syria’s greatest threat, and the conflicting fact the Russians have the Brotherhood listed as a terrorist organization.
So in Russia they’re listed as terrorists but in Syria the Russians call them moderate opposition, so go figure.

Hind Abyad

Russian Diplomacy.

Willing Conscience (The Truths

Putin’s maniacal diplomacy.

The Objective

My friend, Russia can’t do shit even if it wanted to. Do you really think that Russia can militarily defeat the Turkish military on Syrian soil? My in-depth research on this subject shows that Russia cannot win militarily in Syria over Turkey even if it tried to. The Russian defenses can be overwhelmed by a combined missile, air and drone assault by Turkey. Then how will Russia resupply its forces under intense fire? Turkey is right at the front-lines. It can just roll in tanks from the border – something Russia cannot do in a non-permissive environment. The only thing Russia can do in such a situation is launch attacks on Turkish soil from Russian soil. But this will lead to attack on Russia soil and a much bigger war would ensue. The Pakistanis, Qataris, and Azerbaijan are certain to join the fight, as will other Muslims around the world, myself included (if I have the opportunity to go there). Will Putin have domestic support for the war? Certainly not – not when Russia is the aggressor like you seem to be advocating.

When it comes to fighting far from its borders, Russia is militarily weaker than a lot of people believe. It’s military posture is purely defensive. It does not have the capability to mount invasions on distant lands like the U.S does. Russia’s power comes mainly from its nuclear arsenal which it inherited from the Soviet Union.

The horrendous cost of a war with Turkey is more than enough to deter any Russian aggression on Turkish soldiers in Syria. The last time Russia tested the waters to see Turkey’s reaction (when Russia hid behind Assad to kill 23 Turkish soldiers) the message from Turkey was clear.

So what exactly do you want Russia to do? Fight a prohibitively costly war on behalf of Assad? Sorry, but Assad does not have that much much to warrant the kind of sacrifice you want Russia to make. Both Turkey and the U.S have refused to give up on Syria. And the war is costing Russian hundreds of millions every year (Russia is bearing the enormous economic collapse of the Syrian state). There’s reconstruction to think about. The worse is that there is no sign of victory to reconquer other Syrian lands. Putin is doing what he can to end the war – and the best way is through resolution 2254.

Willing Conscience (The Truths

Russia recently blew up 200 trucks smuggling stolen oil to Turkey and then repeated the action a week later.
And without hesitation the Russians and Syrians blew them up right in the middle of Erdogan’s pretentiously named and proclaimed safe zone, and you say Russia can’t do shit, mmm, but the way I see it Erdogan can’t do shit to stop them.
Which means it’s not really a safe zone at all, maybe that’s why all those Syrian refugees living in Turkey aren’t flocking to Erdogan’s safe zone in Syria, the one he created by ethnically cleansing 300,000 Kurds from their homes, another war crime to add to his long list of achievements.
How much do you think 300 or 400 oil transport trucks costs, a pretty penny I’ll bet, and all that destroyed infrastructure as well, 20 or 30 mill at least. And what about the fear it’s instilled in anyone stupid enough to consider driving Erdogan’s oil trucks in the future, Erdogan may have to double or triple their pay to get them to go back to work.

Turkish drones are only effective because they have communications links deployed all along the Turkish border, without them they’re as useless as tits on a bull, and I’ll bet the Russian would have at least 2 ballistic missiles trained on every one of those drone control towers, just in case.
As to the tanks they’d be easy work for the Russian and Syrian air forces, all they need to do is use Russia’s E war capabilities to jam the Turkish air defense systems and they’d have free reign to blow the Turkish tanks to smithereens.
And with all the S-300 systems and the 2 S-400 systems in Syria I don’t think the Turkish air force would get a warm reception if they poked their noses over the border.
And what a great way to unite the Kurds to Assad’s side, they’ve already said they’d help Assad liberate Idlib, so they’d be doubly eager to help him liberate Aleppo, the more the merrier I say.

Russia is bearing the brunt but the Arab league are offering to help out, so the situation isn’t beyond repair. And if you haven’t heard yet the international stance on Assad is slowly changing, they’re softening their stance and there may even be an easing of sanctions sometime soon, just rumors so far but where there’s smoke there’s usually fire.

And Assad says the Muslim brotherhood are Syria’s biggest enemy because of their religious ideology, they want to impose a strict form of Islam with Sharia Law as the top tier of Government [similar to the Iranian democratic system], which is totally incompatible to Nations like Syria.
Syria is multi ethnic, multi religious, and multi cultural, and you can’t fit square pegs in round holes, so the Muslim Brotherhood will do what they always do, persecute the minorities.
The Alawites believe in reincarnation, they drink alcohol, and have a totally different ideology to mainstream Islam, and along with the Druze they’ll become a persecuted people if the Brotherhood ever took control of Syria.

I read your post and was sickened by it, Assad has to stop you and all your friends, and the rest of the world has to stop your hero Erdogan.

The Objective

Russia will surely be able to exact a high cost on Turkey in any war on Syrian soil. But the amount of firpower is in Turkey’s favor. The S-300, S-400 are limited in Syria. Besides, the true effectiveness of these systems are questionable, that’s why Russia never allows Assad to use them against Israeli jets. Russian air defense systems also performed poorly against Turkish drones in several battles. But drones are not the only things in the Turkish arsenal. There are missiles (2000+ km) enough to suppress any battery of air defense systems Russia has deployed in Syria. The situation is quite similar to Iran-U.S posture in the middle east. Iran possesses the power to bomb EVERY single U.S base within 2000 km of Iran. This will impose unacceptable cost on logistics and force the U.S to fight from at least 4000 km away – something Russia isn’t capable of despite possessing NON-STEALTH long range bombers and aerial refueling capabilities. All of Syria is within Turkey’s missile range. Once Russia supplies in Syria are done with, the Kremlin can’t replenish because it’ll lack a logistically permissive environment.
So, Russia’s S-300 and S-400 can only go so far. I once told you that deployed a 1500 km missile before Iran did reach that range. You argued, because you expected Turkey openly announce and test it as the Iranians do. This was before 2015.

Assad can keep singing his song about the Muslim Brotherhood being a biggest threat to his rule (not the 80% Sunni Syrians). He’ll sing that until he dies, that’s his problem.

The Arab league WILL NOT help Assad as long as Iran remains in Syria. The Shiites are the ones currently bombing Saudi Arabia’s oil fields and airports from Yemen, not the Muslim Brotherhood. You also conveniently forget that Saudi Arabia is warming up to Turkey for help in the Yemen war.

Russia did bomb 200+ oil trucks, but does the oil come from? Is it from Turkish controlled regions or SDF controlled regions? I see that the SDF are already taking retaliatory measures backed by the U.S. they are blocking things moving to government areas to further intensify the economic plight of Assad.
This Russian bombing of oil tankers will only go so far, as retaliatory measures are going to be more painful for the regime. An attack or sabotage of Assad’s oil fields cannot be ruled out. Besides, Russia has so much oil. I wonder why it’s not shipping it to Syria. The sanctions I guess.

“Russia is bearing the brunt but the Arab league are offering to help out”
On what terms? Can Assad get Iran out?

gryzor84

The destruction of the criminal, illegal oil business will quickly wear down and break the back of the Turkish-backed war effort and push the SDF into some kind of agreement with Assad. As this very site has documented , kilometer-long queue of wheat and oil trucks have started crossing again from Kurdish areas to gov’t controlled lines, that’s the primary and key consequence of that perfectly timed and executed massive strike on the very spine of Erdogan’s little plan with his arch-enemy the SDF. There is simply no equivalent that either accomplices can enact on Assad or the Russians, as the inherent advantage of the latter allies is that what is happening to national Syrian oil is simply plain illegal, legally indefensible at the UN or anywhere, and nobody in their right minds even in US commanding circles can overtly react , condemn let alone counter-attack on a sovereign nation cracking down on illegal trade between paramilitary thugs and non-state actors involving its natural ressources, plain and simple.

Plus, the brunt of the oil is on Kurdish-controlled soil, so there is simply no equivalent component they can or will try to strike to avenge their own loss elsewhere in the country, and US sanctions are standing at their maximum right now, just like with Iran, there’s simply nothing more they can add to the mix by now, options are depleted, ditto with their military spread over northeastern regions : they can only develop so far and are now pretty much surrounded in every place of relevance by all sides by either Syrian forces or more importantly, reinforced Russian presence. ANY strategic values a given installation of garrison might have is pretty much nullified by a bigger Russian deployment nearby. It’s dollars wasted and easy targets if they ever try to use them as launchpad for an unthinkable campaign against Russian-controlled sectors of Syria, which is technically the whole of useful Syria. And from there on its permanent cat & mouse with tanks and armored vehicles rushing trough checkpoints and helicopters hovering above, as we’ve seen time and again here. And at this little game, time is completely on the Russian/Syrian side.

Bottom line is : The only solution for the Kurdish to salvage a bit of their interest is to engage meaningfully with a long-term sharing plan with Assad while he can show inventives for a federal solution to the Kurdish issue on the longer-term in return. It was well on its way to happen a couple years back but the US killed every single such diplomatic effort with active sabotage using its factions within Kurdish ranks.

As for the military side : The mere activation of both S-400 batteries and air-defense missile destroyers in the Mediterranean connected to the on-shore Russian IADS network a few years back was enough to literally ground the whole of the Turkish air-force squadrons until the Putin-Erdogan Su-24 take-down crisis was over (which happened until the self-proclaimed sultan publicly reneged on his pledge not to “ever apologize to the Russians”, for reminders). No Turkish F-16 dared even ventured hundreds of miles from Russian-controlled Syrian airspace.

Besides, while a serious player in itself, Turkey is by no means a military superpower.

Anyway, the military order of battle and the assets along with existing force multipliers involved quickly make anyone with true culture on military matters realize that the Russian ballistic and cruise missile arsenal deliverable by its surface, air and subsurface elements can utterly devastate the entirety of the Turkish air-force infrastructure on the ground in the opening days of a full-on conflict, where you can expect Russia to mobilize the bulk of its heavy strategic submarine , heavy surface navy and supersonic bomber wings which together can strike every bit of critical Turkish military infrastructure from safe stand-off ranges and come in undetected by Turkish sensors. Kalibr cruise missiles, Iskanders and Tochka balistic missiles, Kh-55s and hypersonic Khinzals will be fired in endless volleys numbering in the hundreds from air, sea and underwater delivery vectors that will unleash unthinkable hell on Turkish command and control structures overnight, and they will see their overall operational condition to drop by at least 80% after the first strike.

The Turks have no credible air-defense capability to face an onslaught of this magnitude without NATO’s direct involvement, which certainly won’t happen considering their recent dismissal of Ankara in the event it gets involved either with Syria or Greece let alone the world’s second military power called Russia.

The consequence of the above scenario of which every military brass is fully aware of is that Turkey will have to make due as much as the SDF with the Russians and Syrians systematically searching and destroying every found remnant of the once very lucrative and critical oil business upon detection from now on. The new facts on the ground are there to stay, up to the impacted players to decide their posture now. But their options are few and far apart. Plus, they aren’t exactly allies outside of that little mutually-beneficial dealings.

Willing Conscience (The Truths

I tried to explain about the Yildirim 3 but you failed to listen, when Turkey finishes research on the Yildirim 3 [the long range fire cracker], they’ll build a bigger rocket that can accommodate the extra fuel and big payload a real long range ballistic has to have.

The Arab league have been helping Assad since the middle of 2017, King Abdullah of Jordan brokered the reconciliation agreement which brought the Southern front Alliance to the negotiating table, 60,000 fighters with heavy weapons.
The League Nations defied US stipulations and reopened diplomatic relations with the Syrian Government WHEN NO ONE ELSE WOULD, now some of the EU Nations are also giving the impression they may do the same thing sometime in the near future.
So as much as most people such as yourself have no idea just how important the League’s help has been for Assad since mid 2017, I do.

The Objective

I’ll only tell you one two things about Turkey’s missile program. You do your own research and verify.
1) Turkey had (not tested) a 1500 km missile before Iran did – using Turkish technology.
2) Any missile range Pakistan achieves, you can be pretty sure Turkey has that too. There are no secrets between the Turkish and Pakistani defense industries. please do an in-depth research on this if you can.
Your problem is that you expect Turkey to publicly announce its missiles or test them publicly like Iran. All the testing is done in Pakistan, and the missiles are manufactured in Turkey after that, without the need to test it.

The Arab League is just a body of Arab rulers. These are the hypocrites in Islam which the prophet told us about. They’ll be responsible for most of the calamities that befalls the Arab Muslim world towards the end of time. So I’m not surprised to know that they are behind Assad.
However, this is a difficult situation for them, especially with the emergence of Erdogan. Erdogan is a bigger threat to them than Iran, because the Arab public love Erdogan more than their Arab rulers. That’s because the Muslim brotherhood is Sunni, not Shiite.

The most ideal outcome for them (Israel, Russia, America, Arab League) is to push Iran and Turkey out of Syria. But this is a near-impossible task because it cannot happen without a second civil war that is highly likely to overthrow Assad. Now I understand why you always complain that Iran is not fighting the rebels or ISIS in Syria anymore. Russia and America probably already have a deal for Russia to push Turkey out of Syria so that America and Israel can later push Iran out. Thankfully, both the Iranians and Erdogan are really smart people. I foresee a Turkey-Iran alliance in Syria (if this hasn’t already happened).

Will the Russians and Americans deploy ground forces to fight both the Iranian and Turkish forces? this is highly unlike as the political climate in their countries cannot endure the body bags. The most likely outcome is the Arab League, Russia, America, and Israel, to employ mercenaries from around the world while providing them air support. They’ll probably send these mercenaries in through Jordan. If this happens, and Turkish forces and Iranian IRGC start dying in Syria, I’m pretty sure they’ll destabilize Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E by taking the war right to their home soil. Expect more devastating missile strikes on Saudi soil from Yemen and Iraq, and more missile strikes on the U.A.E (which will drive their tourist industry to the ground). Turkish and Iranian forces can more than handle any mercenaries these countries can send to Syria. Between the two of them, they can marshal over two million fighters within months.

Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E will think twice before making such a move. To me, the days of these rulers is numbered. Their populations hate them and they are ruling with an iron fist. They’ll have no chance in hell once there’s domestic chaos. And a high barrage of missiles on sensitive facilities will trigger such chaos.

Thank you for making think by some of the things you say.

RichardD

It looks like liar, moron and idiot are the new banned comment section words here at SF. At least for my posts. I can understand moderation against profanity, pornagraphy and crminial behavior. But blocking truth terms, using dictionary definitions, used in comments criticizing lying, moronic and idiotic behavior, when it’s clear that the behavior is lying, idiotic and moronic? I don’t get it.

RichardD

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Willing Conscience (The Truths

You just don’t get it do you RichardD, just go back to hunting bigfoot and the extraterrestrials and leave the online discussions for civilized people, civilized people who don’t need to be abusive and condescending when holding a discourse.
And you just posted the words “liar, moron and idiot”, so what the hell are you rambling about, how can they be banned if you’re still using them.
Perhaps you use those words way too often and with no apparent justification, that may explain why you’re in the bad books.
And no it wasn’t me who complained about your abusive behavior, but obviously someone has. :]

RichardD

It looks like an AI filter issue:
comment image

Willing Conscience (The Truths

Yes I’ve had the same issues with certain words.

The Objective

That change in curriculum will prepare the masses to make the sacrifices necessary to fight off the Christian invaders of our lands. They’ll be able to accept Turkish losses on the battlefield as the Turkish military helps Muslims regain their rights in Syria, Libya, and beyond. They’ll also endure any sanctions as a result of Turkey’s Islamic liberation campaigns.
The change in curriculum will also prepare future leaders to continue on the cause of liberating Muslim countries. Military recruits will also embrace death as part of the struggle. They won’t be afraid to die and will NOT retreat even when facing death. this has been the spirit of successful Muslim warriors of the past. Without preparing the people’s hearts in this way, victory will be hard to come by.
Your major concern is that your domestic populations are not willing to sacrifice in your imperialistic wars. When the losses begin to mount for you, your people will protest against your continued occupation or meddling in Muslim countries. They’ll put enormous pressure on your leaders to withdraw.
The Muslim population that has been prepared for Jihad and martyrdom will agree with their governments on the need to liberate other Muslim nations. That means we can fight for decades like the Taliban did, and still maintain domestic support. But this time, it’ll be a much more powerful force than the Taliban. Taliban will only add to it.
Criticize Sharia or Islamic law as much as you want. poke your noses into what we’re doing as much as you want. But that isn’t going to deter us. We can slow down when we think it’s best to slow down, but we’ll never stop. Muslim countries must be liberated and united.

Ahson

Man stop joking…..lol…..seriously you’re better off turnin lower caste hendu again. Yous done brah sitting bankrupt eyes deep in IMF debt. The West owns you…..Just revert no? Pakestan is a failed state. You need to accept this.There is no way out. Let us dismantle the turks and gulag them out east. You can join them in Xinjiang if you want to.

The Objective

If you make such a reply to me again, I’ll block you.
I like to learn new things even from my enemies, but I have time to read nonsense.

Ahson

Come on brah….lol…..why so salty? You think some of us here don’t know you boyz?…..specially us Iranians?…..lol……Look, no offense but until there is Iran, we’d block your swindle out east, just like how a Zoroastrian and Aryan Iran blocked Christianity from penetrating east for 2000 years. You will bow down to us, like you’ve always had. It don’t matter…….nobody would help you, not even China, as is evident in them offering half a trillion to us, vs $46 billion to you. And Iran hasn’t taken up on that offer yet. What does that tell you? You will do as told…like you’ve always have done… It’s your destiny!…..you will get told.

The Objective

How many of your people have they killed since the last three years?

Ahson

Thousands of Iranians and allied militia have died fighting jihadi’s in the SyRaq. However, Iran has wiped out hundreds of thousands in retaliation. This won’t stop until we bust down the house of Saud and the oglu toglu mongol republic. Both are US toady scum, just like your country is, on permanent western life support.

The Objective

You are really clueless aren’t you. Are you still making an enemy of Turkey after it has become crystal-clear that Turkey and Iran need to watch each other’s back in Syria? Have you ever asked yourself why Iran stopped fighting Sunni rebels in Syria? Have you ever wondered why ISIS stays away from Iranian forces while killing SAA soldiers in dozens every months? Have you ever wondered why Iran is having disputes with Russia over what to do in Syria? Did it every cross your mind why Russia allows Israel to keep bombing Iranian forces in Syria? You need to open your eyes, and for the first time, I’m going to address you as a brother (I hope you are).
The U.S, Israel, and Arab League want to destroy BOTH Iran and Turkey. Because these two countries are the biggest threat to the regional order right now. This Sunni-Shii rivalry got to stop – at least until we overcome this mutually existentialist threat to both the Turkish and Iranian regimes.
Russia, Israel, America, and the Arab League want to do away with Iran and Turkey in Syria. I’m very sure after thinking about it the America and Russia have reach some kind of agreement with each other. The U.S will let Russia push Turkey out of Syria, then there focus will be directed towards removing Iran from there. Then the U.S/Israel/Arab League will leave Syria to Assad and Russia. This is the perfect outcome for all of them. If this happens, Israel can attack Hezbollah without fear of Iranian support through Syria.
Iranian forces have largely separated themselves from regime forces in the past year or so. Whenever you hear reports of attack on Assad’s forces, you won’t hear that it affected Iran’s militias or Hezbollah. Whenever you hear attacks on Iranian forces in Syria, it always comes from Israel or some pro-Assad forces, and no SAA are normally harmed in such attacks.
I also noticed that pro-Iran commeters like “Blue in Green” no longer frequent SF like before. I suspect the Iranian-Russian alliance in Syria has ended, and now both are working to cement their control over the country. Assad is in Russia’s pocket. There has been reports that the Syrian Arab Army is divided between Iran-loyalists and Russia-loyalists.
Russia is playing the Sunni and Shiite forces in Syria. It allowed them to fight and weaken each other, pretending to be allied with Iran. But ever since Iran realized this, there has been no major clash between Shiites and Sunni rebels in Syria. That’s because both Iran and Turkey have decided to end this fight between Sunni and Shiite forces. Russia has no option but to work with sections of the SAA loyal to Assad to fight the Sunni rebels. That’s why Russia’s attention is focused on Idlib.
Rest assure, once they succeed in pushing Turkey out of Syria, they’ll come after Iran (both the U.S and Russia). Russia will not lift a finger to help Iran and will even cooperate with intelligence. Then after Iran is pushed out, the U.S will leave and Russia gets to reunite Syria under Assad (but this time without Iranian influence or access to Hezbollah).
What do you think? For me, I believe Turkey and Iran are forced to work as allies in Syria right now. They must put away all sectarian differences and protect each other. Otherwise they’ll both be defeated.

Ahson

Come on man……Assad sitting on 75% of his country today. The rest is slowly being reclaimed. Turkey makes a mistake and Russia very heavily bombs the daylights out of the jihadis. Iran controlling the ground with tens of thousands of militia and specialists leading the Syrian army. Same same in Iraq with the PMU’s being the vanguard. You know whose already won here, don’t you? Same same in Lebanon with Hezbollah and increasingly in Yemen too. We need to turn next to Afghanistan and make a stand there and start pushing the wahabbi pashtu out of the country and form an alliance with the majority Persian population to push the US and wahabbi talibs out. Most importantly, Russia and China are on board with this agenda, in case you haven’t noticed it yet. It’s not even a question of winning this, we’ve already won long ago. Just waiting for the US to throw in the towel.

The Objective

Then you’ve been tricked by a sophisticated Russian propaganda. Suppose Turkey leaves Syria today, what do you think will happen to Iranian forces on Syrian soil? I’ll tell you what happens: the U.S and Israel will physically bomb them across Syria and Putin will just fold his arms and watch. To Russia, Iran is a competitor on influence in Syria. Iran is a barrier towards Western, Israeli, and Arab normalization with Assad. Iran is a barrier to sanctions being lifted on Syria. Iran is a barrier to reconstruction aid. And Iran is a barrier to Russia’s full control of Syria and its domestic stability.
There is no reason why Russia will not stab Iran in the back. In fact, it already did when it failed to protect the Iranian soldiers from Israeli air strikes. These are the same foot-soldiers Russia used to defeat the Sunni rebels, and who Russia still needs to take back Idlib and other provinces from the Sunni rebels. The surprising thing is that Iran-backed forces are now refusing to fight on behalf of Russia. Only forces loyal to Assad are doing the real fighting.

I’ll soon know if you are really an Iranian and not a Russian in disguise. Because these facts are undeniable. You can’t fail to see that Iran and Turkey must unite if they are to both survive in Syria.

Ahson

lol……man the last time Iranians were actually killed in IDF strikes in Syria was years ago, and Iran retaliated. After that Israel is extremely careful in where it strikes, making sure no Iranians are present. To add insult to injury, 90% or more of Israeli ALCM’s are intercepted now and shot down. So Israeli strikes are a non issue. I would like to ask you just how many soldiers Russia has in Syria vs how many soldiers/ militia Iran commands on the ground?…….do you have any idea?

The Objective

I know that Iran has far more forces on the ground in Syria than Russia does. But that’s not the issue here.
You said the IDF stopped attacking Iran after Iran “retaliated” not because Russia “stopped” the IDF. And again, Israel still says it’s launching attacks on Iranian forces in Syria. Even if these attacks do not kill any Iranian, they are clearly a bad move which could kill or damage Iranian property (even accidentally).
If you are really Iranian or a supporter of Iran, you want to really think hard about what I’m telling you now: Russia has sided with the U.S in trying to push both Iran and Turkey out of Syria. They all have no problem with Assad’s continued rule anymore.

Ahson

man for the love of god get a grip on reality. It was Iran who brought Russia into Syria. Had we not done this, we’d be fighting these jihadis in Tehran, Moscow and Beijing. Your problem is that you are rather chaffed at being dumped by your overlords sitting in DC….lol. Without Iran, there is no Russia in Syria……..you getting the drift? Syria was the only Arab country to help Iran against Saddam in the Iran/ Iraq war. Iran will never abandon its allies. Iran has long defeated the US for control in the entire northern middle east. And from the looks of things, Iran is poised to pull the rug from underneath the wahabbi camel jockey in sawdi judea. You pakestani hendu-pak and guppu moghal turks need to sit back and enjoy your irrelevance. Are you surprised though that this happened to both of yous? being that both of yous turkey and pakestan are born toady? on perpetual western IMF/ WB life support?……get real bro…..lol
P.S. I tell this to the pakestani on Press TV comments, and they get upset with me….lol…..Lets just hope you survive and not get dismantled in the next few years and end up like Afghanistan or Libya..

gryzor84

The destruction of the criminal, illegal oil business will quickly wear down and break the back of the Turkish-backed war effort and push the SDF into some kind of agreement with Assad. As this very site has documented , kilometer-long queue of wheat and oil trucks have started crossing again from Kurdish areas to gov’t controlled lines, that’s the primary and key consequence of that perfectly timed and executed massive strike on the very spine of Erdogan’s little plan with his arch-enemy the SDF. There is simply no equivalent that either accomplices can enact on Assad or the Russians, as the inherent advantage of the latter allies is that what is happening to national Syrian oil is simply plain illegal, legally indefensible at the UN or anywhere, and nobody in their right minds even in US commanding circles can overtly react , condemn let alone counter-attack on a sovereign nation cracking down on illegal trade between paramilitary thugs and non-state actors involving its natural ressources, plain and simple.

Plus, the brunt of the oil is on Kurdish-controlled soil, so there is simply no equivalent component they can or will try to strike to avenge their own loss elsewhere in the country, and US sanctions are standing at their maximum right now, just like with Iran, there’s simply nothing more they can add to the mix by now, options are depleted, ditto with their military spread over northeastern regions : they can only develop so far and are now pretty much surrounded in every place of relevance by all sides by either Syrian forces or more importantly, reinforced Russian presence. ANY strategic values a given installation of garrison might have is pretty much nullified by a bigger Russian deployment nearby. It’s dollars wasted and easy targets if they ever try to use them as launchpad for an unthinkable campaign against Russian-controlled sectors of Syria, which is technically the whole of useful Syria. And from there on its permanent cat & mouse with tanks and armored vehicles rushing trough checkpoints and helicopters hovering above, as we’ve seen time and again here. And at this little game, time is completely on the Russian/Syrian side.

Bottom line is : The only solution for the Kurdish to salvage a bit of their interest is to engage meaningfully with a long-term sharing plan with Assad while he can show inventives for a federal solution to the Kurdish issue on the longer-term in return. It was well on its way to happen a couple years back but the US killed every single such diplomatic effort with active sabotage using its factions within Kurdish ranks.

As for the military side : The mere activation of both S-400 batteries and air-defense missile destroyers in the Mediterranean connected to the on-shore Russian IADS network a few years back was enough to literally ground the whole of the Turkish air-force squadrons until the Putin-Erdogan Su-24 take-down crisis was over (which happened until the self-proclaimed sultan publicly reneged on his pledge not to “ever apologize to the Russians”, for reminders). No Turkish F-16 dared even ventured hundreds of miles from Russian-controlled Syrian airspace.

Besides, while a serious player in itself, Turkey is by no means a military superpower.

Anyway, the military order of battle and the assets along with existing force multipliers involved quickly make anyone with true culture on military matters realize that the Russian ballistic and cruise missile arsenal deliverable by its surface, air and subsurface elements can utterly devastate the entirety of the Turkish air-force infrastructure on the ground in the opening days of a full-on conflict, where you can expect Russia to mobilize the bulk of its heavy strategic submarine , heavy surface navy and supersonic bomber wings which together can strike every bit of critical Turkish military infrastructure from safe stand-off ranges and come in undetected by Turkish sensors. Kalibr cruise missiles, Iskanders and Tochka balistic missiles, Kh-55s and hypersonic Khinzals will be fired in endless volleys numbering in the hundreds from air, sea and underwater delivery vectors that will unleash unthinkable hell on Turkish command and control structures overnight, and they will see their overall operational condition to drop by at least 80% after the first strike.

The Turks have no credible air-defense capability to face an onslaught of this magnitude without NATO’s direct involvement, which certainly won’t happen considering their recent dismissal of Ankara in the event it gets involved either with Syria or Greece let alone the world’s second military power called Russia.

The consequence of the above scenario of which every military brass is fully aware of is that Turkey will have to make due as much as the SDF with the Russians and Syrians systematically searching and destroying every found remnant of the once very lucrative and critical oil business upon detection from now on. The new facts on the ground are there to stay, up to the impacted players to decide their posture now. But their options are few and far apart. Plus, they aren’t exactly allies outside of that little mutually-beneficial dealings.

TL:DR : the days when the anti-Syrian governments and their proxies could credibly contemplate the prospect of any easy win over secular Syria and turn it into a Gulf satellite with a docile pseudo-moderate puppet regime at its top are dead and buried. The best they can do and currently are hard at work to achieve is to drag the frozen conflict on for some time to come, though various disruptive ways, both economical and geographical, but that game cannot provide a lasting or meaningful change on the now-established balance of power : Damascus is here to stay, ditto Russia and even Iran, should they choose to stay there. If the US + allies want that situation to change anew for real, they will have to wage direct, hot war on the actors involved, and I guess believing in unicorns can help still having faith in such a scenario materializing in March 2021.

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