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MAY 2021

Chicken Kiev Meets Cold Turkey: Black Sea Axis Emerges?

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Written and produced by SF Team: J.Hawk, Daniel Deiss, Edwin Watson

On the face of it, an alliance between Turkey and Ukraine seems like a rather odd creation, yet one that may surprisingly durable simply because neither country has anywhere else to turn. What practically dooms them to a partnership if not an outright alliance is their unenviable geographic and geopolitical position of occupying the strange “no man’s land” between Russia, NATO, and the Middle East. It is, of course, largely a predicament of their own making. Ukraine, with considerable Western backing and encouragement but nevertheless mostly through efforts of a faction of its own oligarchy, opted out of the Russia-centered network of loose alliances, trade partnerships, and other forms of cooperation that were mutually beneficial to the two in the previous two decades. But that defection was not rewarded by the West in a way the likes of Poroshenko, Yatsenyuk, Avakov, Parubiy, and other architects of the Maidan coup expected. Merely being stridently anti-Russian did not prove enough to warrant a shower of US and European cash, only onerous IMF loans which moreover come with conditions Kiev elites are in no hurry to abide by. EU foreign policy chief Josef Borrel lecturing Kiev that the European Union is not an “ATM machine” delivered that point loud and clear: Kiev is supposed to privatize whatever crown jewels its economy still has (at this point, mainly agricultural land), fight corruption of its own elites and facilitate the corruption of Western elites. Joseph Robinette Biden Junior is hardly the only Western politician with a talentless son in need of a lucrative sinecure. There are entire Western companies eager to participate in the thinly disguised plunder that the privatization of Ukraine’s economy will inevitably turn into. A Kiev court’s recent decision to declare the country’s anti-corruption institutions that were painstakingly stood up with considerable aid and tutelage from Western governments, down to screening appropriately-minded individuals for the job, looks as if it were calculated to send a middle-finger gesture to Borrel in terms even dense EU bureaucratic hacks will comprehend. Pro-EU newspapers like Kiev Post were quick to label this a “death of democracy”, presumably with the intent of interesting EU and NATO in sponsoring yet another Maidan since last one seems not to be delivering the goods. The expected shower of Western weaponry has not materialized, probably because NATO is afraid to give Ukraine so much aid that it will risk a full-blown war with Russia.

Erdogan’s Turkey, by contrast, is in process of de-facto opting out of NATO, though neither Turkey nor the alliance itself want to take the final step of severing ties completely. NATO membership is still beneficial to Turkey. While the procurement of Russian S-400 air defense systems angered NATO and US in particular, resulting in the expulsion of Turkey from the F-35 program and the cancellation of F-35 sale to the country, evidently Ankara hopes that by nominally remaining in the alliance it limits NATO and EU sanctions that would no doubt be far harsher if it were totally out of the alliance. The hope that Turkey, possibly post-Erdogan, will yet see the error of its ways and return to the fold, prevents NATO from adopting harsher stances that would definitely push Ankara away. Yet the drifting apart is unmistakable, and the animosity between Turkey’s leaders and their Western European counterparts is so intense as to beggar belief. While Germany’s Merkel is careful to tip-toe around the issue due to fear of another wave of refugees as well as unrest among the large Turkish diaspora in Germany, France’s Macron seems to have taken a personal affront to Erdogan’s suggestion he might need a mental evaluation and will press the issue of EU sanctions against Turkey at future Union summits.

But from Turkey’s perspective, getting a cold shoulder from the EU is par for the course. Its own migration to the geopolitical gray zone of Eurasia was motivated by EU’s failure to admit Turkey as a member after decades of leading it by the nose and promising neighborhood in some nebulously distant future right after Hell froze over. Like Ukraine, Turkey was not seeking EU membership because of some mythical “shared values”. It, too, saw EU as an ATM machine that would shower Turkey, one of the poorest countries on the continent, with development assistance and moreover allow Turks to freely travel and work throughout the Union. Needless to say, neither of these prospects appealed to pretty much any European country, no matter how close or distant it was geographically. So after decades of leading Turkey by the nose, EU politely put an end to the charade citing problems with Turkey’s democracy. Thus snubbed, Erdogan opted to chart an independent course and appears to be finding a similarly snubbed oligarch clique in Kiev looking for ways the two countries could extract mutual benefit from their isolated status.

There are plenty of those to be had, as limited as Ukraine’s and Turkey’s resources are, compared to such patrons as EU, NATO, US. Faced with isolation and even a potential ban on arms exports, Turkey has a strong incentive to exploit the resources of the Ukrainian defense industry and engage in some export substitution in case vital supplies are no longer available from the West. Canada’s and Austria’s ban on exports of optronics and engines needed for the Bayraktar TB2 combat drones means Ukraine’s ability to provide substitutes would be most welcome. Ukraine, for its part, would not be against deploying a huge attack drone fleet of its own in the hopes of replicating Azerbaijan’s successful offensive against Nagorno-Karabakh on the Donbass, though there Ukraine’s drones would probably run afoul of Novorossiya’s air defenses in the same way Turkish drones were brought to heel over Idlib. Turkey’s Altay main battle tank is likewise little more than an assembly of components imported from other countries, particularly Germany. Since Germany has already placed a ban on export of powerpacks and transmissions for the Altay, Turkey has been casting about for replacements, looking as far as China. Whether Ukraine’s developments in this realm can be adopted to rescue the Altay project remain to be seen. However, the Oplot powerpacks and transmissions can probably be adapted to Altay use, resulting in Turkey realizing its goal of a home-grown MBT. Ultimately, the greater the contribution of Ukrainian defense industry to Turkey’s military modernization, the more freedom of action it would bestow on Turkey and make it less dependent on other foreign sources of military hardware who can exert influence over Turkey simply by withholding future technical support. If the United States were to follow up on the F-35 expulsion with a ban on servicing Turkish F-16s which form the mainstay of its airpower, the result would be crippling of the country’s air combat capabilities that drones cannot compensate for and which would be sorely missed in any confrontation with another comparable power like Greece. Turkey’s efforts to develop an indigenous fighter aircraft would benefit from Ukraine’s technological contributions and its own interest in indigenous aircraft designs. For Ukraine, the relationship would be an opportunity to acquire NATO-compatible weaponry with the caveat that it would have to pay in full for every last drone, either with cash or in kind. Turkey’s economic situation is not so strong as to allow largesse in the form of free military aid to anyone.

Mitigating against the long-term development of what Zelensky referred to as “strategic partnership” with Turkey is the erratic behavior of Erdogan who seeks to dominate any and all partners and tries to see how far he can push before the partners push back. This practice has led to the confrontations in Syria, Libya, and eastern Mediterranean. Ukraine, in contrast to Russia, France, and even Greece, is hardly in a position to push back. The most dangerous aspect of Turkish politics, from Ukraine’s perspective, is the ideology of Pan-Turkism that just might transform Ukraine’s Tatar community into a proxy force for Turkey right inside Ukraine, adding yet another fissure to the already fractured political picture. On the plus side, Erdogan does not appear interested in “combating corruption” in Ukraine, though that does not preclude the possibility Turkey’s military collaboration with Ukraine might not cost Ukraine dearly, though not to the same extent as EU-promoted privatization efforts.

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      1. HiaNd says:

        You bitter delusional Ukrainian twat. It is Ukrine that is totally de-populated not Russia you miserable c u n t.
        Shitheads like you have prophesized for decades that Russia is doomed !
        That they will have natality collapse and that they are finished as country.
        Yet 20 years after Russia is perfectly OK (unlike Ukraine who lost 30% of its population). Russia today has 145 million population you bigoted impotent Ukrainain NAZI c u n t and can only grow since Russian economy has stability and the best prospects for growth in Europe despite crisis.
        Wile Ukraine NAZI pigs having only collapse of Ukraine in front of them.
        So go f**k yourself !

        1. occupybacon says:

          Be a good patient and take your pills.

          1. HiaNd says:

            Ukraine bankrupted neo-NAZI crap country is FINISHED !

          2. occupybacon says:

            Say AAAA. That’s it. Go to sleep.

          3. HiaNd says:

            As I taught you have nothing to answer to that one!
            Ukraine is FINISHED – bankrupted just like US !!!

  1. Rhodium 10 says:

    The military-industrial complex of Ukraine is dead…Ukraine military have been defeated in Donbass….if Ukraine star a war using drones in Donbass…they will need money( each TB 2 cost 5M dollar and the Harop 10M dollar) in the other side Russia will supply modern air defense( NK army only had old Soviet system for a 80-90s war)…beside just Russian fighter jets can shot down that drones from Russia border if they flight over Donbass air space…but meanwhile Ukrainian politics and Oligarchy can fool the population that they have a chance to retake Donbass.

    1. HiaNd says:

      The military-industrial complex of Ukraine is dead but “Motorsich” (chopper engines, light jet engines ) production of gas turbines for ships and some other elements of production are still live. Soviet know how ( blueprints ) is what are the Turks after also.

      1. Rhodium 10 says:

        They have sold all patents and machinery to China…Ukraine tech ( ex Soviet) are outdated and obsolete!…Russia has replaced all that Ukraine Ivchenko.progress engines for modern Klimov and Adviavigatel engines..also gas turbine for ships and power Gen station…Ukraine without Russian military-industrial tech is nothing as we have seen how they cannot build new planes..I have doubts thet Turkey tech can help them.

        1. HiaNd says:

          I know all that.

          “Ukraine without Russian military-industrial tech is nothing”
          I was not talking about Russia at all.
          But if you insist 4 “Krivak” frigates(2 half finished 2 as building licence) are sold to India by Russia and they will have their gas turbines driveled by Ukraine.
          “.Ukraine tech ( ex Soviet) are outdated and obsolete!
          The only reason why Russia have stopped to by those jet engines for “Yak”, chopper engines and gas turbines is because Ukraine has stopped to deliver them (not because they were “Soviet” and “obsolete”). So Russia was forced to create domestic production of Russian created (not Soviet) for all those missing engines and gas turbines.
          I do not argue that Ukraine is “something” without Russia I just state the facts that Russia had to replace chopper engines, ship gas turbines, Antonov aircraft’s etc. by domestically produced models and those are the facts.
          No they didn’t obviously sell “everything”, Since China wanted to buy Motorsich and US have stopped them.
          Know-how for building those engines is still in Ukraine… I do not know if Motorsich is still working though.

          1. Rhodium 10 says:

            All Ukraine tech was made in Soviet times…do you know what it means?…it means that Russia was the heir of all tech developed during Soviet times ( in all republics)and all that was registered in Moscow!…thats why Russia didnt have problems to build Ukraine engines such as VK-2500 or Progress…now Klimov!..as well as gas turbine!..the same case with Ballistic missile and Antonov planes which all avionics ( except engines) was made in Russia!…nowdays Russia can build a new engine for AN 124 ( PD-35) while Ukraine cannot..and have to ask for western partners if they want to replace the old Ivchenko progress.

          2. HiaNd says:

            I know most of the staff you are saying here yet you keep speaking as if I don’t understand something.
            I have stated you some facts on Ukraine as an argument on which you didn’t respond.
            So no point in continuing this conversation.
            Ukraine doesn’t have your interpretation of things and proof is that “Mirya” blueprints and all documentation was sold to CHINA without asking any permission from Russia, SU-33 prototype also and many other blueprints and weapons systems are sold by Ukraine without any additional “permission” from Russia. So much about Russia’s ownership.

            That’s why China now builds the biggest airplanes in the world because they use Soviet – Antonov know how.
            Maybe Russia will build some Antonov’s “Ruslan” AN-124
            but under the different name. Since branding with “Antonov” name is problem.
            As for new ship engines – gas turbines, they are 100% Russian design (not Soviet – from Ukraine )
            PD-35 is 100% Russian design new engine (not Soviet ) and will be used for Irkut MC-21- 400 also.
            And also for Russo-Chinese project of the “wide body” airliner that will compete with largest Airbus A-320 and US Boing 787 Dreamliner jets.

    2. occupybacon says:

      Currently everyone in the world is dead curious to see what new toys Russia has to counter a wave of drones the kind of Nagorno, so if all Ukraine needs is just the will, the money and technique will follow. Probably they could be manned from outside Ukraine too, to signal Russians: bring your best toys, aint no joke here!

      1. Rhodium 10 says:

        Drones cannot do nothing vs modern air defense!..NK only had obsolete SA-8/13 useful vs jets and helicopters…all TB2 and Harop/Orbiter shot down by NK was in Martouni region where only a single TOR-M2 was deployed and could be destroyed only when was hided in a grain!…meanwhile Iran shot all drones( 6) which were flying close to its borders…

        1. occupybacon says:

          Those were separate incidents, not a full wave aimed at them, I’m curious how many tors are needed to stop a wave of tens of drones.

          1. HiaNd says:

            You are ignorant useful idi*t (as usual) spreading bullshit about things you don’t know nothing about.
            No need for many Tor or BUK. They use sub munitions – put 4 small shorter ranged rockets in each tube (if the attack is performed by “swarm”) So 6 launch tubes send 24 rockets, While other can keep longer range if need be.
            Turk “Baryaktar TB2” costs 5 million each. And flies about 200 km per hour ONLY – impossible to miss ! They would be MASSACRED by modern multi layered air defenses like Russian. If loosing 40 drones in one “swarm” attack that would be 200 million loss and Turdogan would have heart attack !
            Immediately after that Turkey would be nuked into oblivion by Russia.
            Not even US and NATO know exactly how to perform aerial attack against best air defenses in the world without having huge losses. Let alone Turkey.
            So will you just shut the f*ck up!

          2. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            ” (if the attack is performed by “swarm”

            If the attack is made by from this swarm, what do you do ??? (the Bayraktar are shot down with a simple rifle..) WHAT IS NOW TESTED FOR MILITARY USE, IN THE USA, IS EVEN SMALLER, THE SIZE NOW OF A PEAS. UNTIL 2030 THEY WILL BE “INVISIBLE” (SIZE 1-3 MOLECULES, WITH BATTERY-PROCESSOR COMPONENTS IN NANO-SCALE.) AND THEIR FLOCKS WILL HAVE UP TO 500.000. Let the Turks talk nonsense.


          3. HiaNd says:

            Brayakar is very slow thus very wulnerable but not on all heights.
            Not if flying on 6000 meters.
            It is even out of reach of best MANPADS like Russian “Verba”.
            Only radar guided Russian 57 mm canon does the job on height as high as that (apart from Tor and Pantsir Missiles).
            So verify your knowledge before commenting not to feed trolls here because some of them are not ignorant.

          4. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            Yes, but do the trolls in here know HOW can you neutralize a tiny swarm of killers ??? I doubt they know the way.

          5. HiaNd says:

            Small drones are attacked by spoofing their signal by electronic warfare trucks positioned around air defenses.
            Than they either fall down or are completely taken control by new “enemy” signal and they fly them over to the “enemy”.
            That is how Iran took control over some of the most advanced US drones or Russia in Ukraine instead of shooting them down took control of Ukrainian drones and have flied those drones on the Russian side, captured them.
            Now lave me alone…Internet is full of examples of what I was talking about
            Read sometime Russian or Chines news not only Western propaganda.

          6. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            ” Small drones are attacked by spoofing their signal by electronic warfare trucks positioned around air defenses.
            Than they either fall down or are completely taken control by new “enemy” signal and they fly them over to the “enemy”.

            First you have to SEE them and LOCATE them !! Traditional air defense systems can hardly deal with these weapons. It is difficult to detect small kamikaze aircraft made of plastic and other materials that do not reflect radio signals, leaving the aircraft almost INVISIBLE on enemy radar. Read ALL the sites NOT ONLY in Russian, as I do … I READ EVERYTHING.Another way is to neutralize the tiny kamikaze and it is not the one you wrote.

          7. HiaNd says:

            You are IGNORANT on the subject and going stubornly with your IGNORANCE again and again and again and again !
            LAST ANSWER TO YOU (I do not want to wast my time on as ignorant as you – only Bacon here is more ignorant than you it seams)

            First Russia has already large …the biggest combat experience with fighting swarms of small drones in the world.
            First you have to SEE them and LOCATE them !!
            Not true!
            Electronic warfare doesn’t have to “see” them at all because if activated radio waves propagate in 3D 360 degrees when activated to protect other elements of multi layered defenses.
            None of drones can escape that.
            Also Russia already has radars that are specialized for small drones that track everything from few maters above.
            Lower than few maters is not necessary because drones can’t go lower because of the trees anyways
            Plastic or no plastic drones they are ALL VISIBLE !!!
            While Micro drones can be launched only from only few hundred maters distance from the target which is question of military security of parameter that is always protected by patrols of soldiers and mine fields.

            NOW LEAVE ME ALONE I am fed up from your stupid comments!!!

          8. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            stupid and childish comments do you, and on your feet like you give balloons ha ha


          9. HiaNd says:

            You are boring the hell out of me with your persistent ignorant comments based on Western propaganda about “drone miracle”.
            West is lagging behind Russia in HYPER-SONIC missiles in strategic, tactical nukes and now with crappy F-35 in fighter jets ! That is why they talk so much about drones to compensate being total losers !
            I have seen that crap in Western propaganda media too many times.
            They have tried against Russian base in Syria so many times and it DID NOT WORK !
            But simpletons like you just don’t get it and keep nagging about “swarm” bullshi*t endlessly !
            I am fed up with that bullsh*t !!

            Go to somebody else with your prejudices and ignorance.
            I do not want to wast my time on you.

          10. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            Before dealing with Western propaganda, read what the Russians write. It is a Russian site ΒΟΖΟ.


          11. HiaNd says:

            Go away you f*cking Greek IDI*T !!
            There are more opposition (even radical Opposition) media in Russia than in Greece !
            Just LEAVE me ALONE you dic*head !!!

          12. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            If you do not close your dirty mouth, I will come there and push your throat so deep that you will brush your teeth from the ass .. capito motherfucker;;;

          13. HiaNd says:

            Suck donkey c*ck you Greek twat !

          14. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            Questa è una specialità di TUA MADRE. !!
            This is a specialty of YOUR MOTHER. !!

          15. HiaNd says:

            Οχι ! Αυτή είναι μια ειδικότητα, της μητέρας σας!

          16. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            you took 4 hours to write this.?? !! xa xa xa Reduced intelligence. And now Fuk off bozo.

          17. HiaNd says:

            it takes 4 seconds on google translate you r.e.t.a.r.d !

          18. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            ..Ν Ο Μ Ι Ζ Ε Ι Σ

          19. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            look at any children’s bass and calm down


          20. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            You do not know anything about war … the war in the future will not be fought by warplanes, warships, tanks or cannons. I will give you an example, in the future nanorobots will be used in the context of cyber warfare to destroy enemy networks. They will penetrate the enemy’s computers and “eat” the electronic components that have silicon.

            Imagine a “cloud of dust” made up of tiny nanorobots that can wipe out an entire city in minutes. Who can escape the “dust” ??? INCOME EVERYWHERE. The war at the end of the 21st century will have ANOTHER FORM. .

            You are right we do not deal with you again, because YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING. I’m wasting my time.

          21. HiaNd says:

            I had it!
            You have wasted too much of my time !
            I will not read any more of your crap comments!

          22. HiaNd says:

            Electronic warfare (and Russian is the best) can neutralize electronics on everything including warships or fighter jets let alone tiny drones.
            No such hing as “tiny kamikaze ” they are quite big – size of medium sized drones if not bigger and they as vulnerable on electronic attack as any drone !
            Good bye !

          23. HiaNd says:

            F*ck those “peas” !
            If you think that “pea sized” drones can carry any kind of bombs than you brain is the size of the pea!
            Russia use ELECTRONIC WARFARE against the tiny crap like that.
            None of them would survive Russian electronic attack even if they are 500.000.000. in swarm they would all FALL DOWN !
            Missile are too expensive for smaller drones. They use auto cannons or electronic warfare.

            You don’t know much on the subject do not bother me with your silly comments please.
            CNBC can only talk fairy-tails to “experts” like you.

          24. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            If you mean Krasukha can not LOCATE them. They are very small … especially if they are the size of a fly or a mosquito. Open your eyes, it is not only Russia that knows everything. !! Neither do you, of course. But as you believe the Russians do everything better than the Chinese, the Americans, the Israelis and everyone else. !!!!!! Everyone is useless except the Russians.


          25. HiaNd says:

            Size of a fly or a mosquito has only radius of few hundred meters and autonomy of 10-15 minutes flight !!
            Those MICRO drones are used only for CLOSE COMBAT !!!

            That is deep inside security perimeter of any military base you nitwit !!
            Now KINDLY FU*K OFF !!!

          26. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            Li mortacci tua, de tuo nonno, de tua madre e dei 3/4 daa palazzina tua

          27. HiaNd says:

            Testa di CAZZO !

          28. AM Hants says:

            Ooooooh precious, has somebody rattled your cage?

            How many nuclear triad nations are there in the world and which one has the most nuclear warheads and hypersonic in active service?

            Which super-power nation needs Russia to get them into Space?

            Riddle me this, but, out of curiosity does Russia focus on traditional educational needs, that lead to creative thinking? Do NATO and 5 Eye member nations avoid traditional educational requirements in their rush to embrace the Woke culture and prevent critical thinking? Does it make a difference?

          29. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            ” How many nuclear triad nations are there in the world and which one has the most nuclear warheads and hypersonic in active service?”

            Does it matter who has the most nuclear warheads or that NO ONE will dare to press the launch button ??

            Whoever has balls presses the button.

          30. AM Hants says:

            Tell that to the NATO leaders, especially those with no knowledge of MAD or those that came through the peace activist route, or from a non-nuclear nation.

            Why are the morons encircling Russia?

          31. ΠΑΡΜΕΝΙΩΝ says:

            Because they are stupid … everyone is stupid…If you have any gonads press the button to finish with the joke

          32. AM Hants says:

            With regards NATO Leadership, assumed the lack of balls or ovaries, were an. essential requirement. So guess there is a major lack of gonads within the NATO elite.

          33. AM Hants says:

            I think it was around 2014, I was reading an article that was going on about the ‘Bee’ drones. Nice to know Russia has it sorted, as you never know what those ‘buzzy bees’ carry.

          34. HiaNd says:

            Finally (in few years time) couples will be able to buzz around and spy on their wife, husband, girlfriend , boyfriend. That will create a mortal wound for majority of relationships….unless of course invisible cloaks are discovered beforehand.

          35. AM Hants says:

            Cannot think of anything less appealing. Getting the ‘buzzy bee’ out to check on your partner. I could get myself into so much trouble if I go any further.

          36. occupybacon says:

            Drones also fire plenty of fake rockets, to consume AA missiles, that’s how Israel and Turkey took out Syrian Pantsirs, by exhausting its missiles, which are more expensive than any flares, and also Hamas fire these kind of fireworks from Gaza, that consumes Iron Dome munitions. When I said swarm I included swarm of fake rockets fired upfront, in the picture, I know that you are slow so it always makes me pleasure to explain things to you :)

          37. HiaNd says:

            Drones also fire plenty of fake rockets, to consume AA missiles

            OK tell me the exact names or types of those “rockets’ and those “drones” which fire them?
            And how on earth they can confuse radar or missiles that are not IR guided?!?
            And if you don’t know what are you talking about than just shut the f*ck up!
            Hamas-Palestinians use make shift rockets a metallic tubes from road singes, lamp posts, anything they can put thir hands on, make adequate warheads and fire them away !!
            Those Palestinan “rockets’ are the most primitive weapons on the planet Earth
            “Swarms” of rockets ha, ha, ha, ha you mean volley of rockets from MLRS?
            You are so LAME and IGNORANT Ukrainian c u n t that knows jack shi*t on subject!
            Not worthy to revive an answer !
            You know jack sh*t on subject you aborted Ukrinian peace of sh*t !

          38. cechas vodobenikov says:

            not curious—stupid

          39. occupybacon says:

            I don’t care if it’s stupid. I want to see what Russia got.

          40. Alex says:

            In contrary to NK Russia can also just strike point of origin and then all of the waves will stop :)

          41. occupybacon says:

            If Russia strikes Ukraine, bye bye economy. Russians will beg China to buy Siberia to get some buckwheat and tea for their children.

          42. Alex says:

            Somehow i doubt that, nobody in europe wants to cut own fingers for ukraine more than they already did. Many ukranians will support Russia in order to get rid of the sadistic govmnt and system they have now.

            Besides, it will all be happening as retaliation to the drone strikes :)

          43. occupybacon says:

            “Many ukranians will support Russia in order to get rid of the sadistic govmnt and system they have now.” yeah they want to live behind the wall with the polar bears))

          44. Alex says:

            Obviously you have no clue :) Beter behind a wall with polar bears than western loan sharks and corrupt oligarchs that slowly take them appart.

          45. occupybacon says:

            But you can go any time. Nobody will miss you.

          46. Rhodium 10 says:

            Wave of drones can destroy a AD system like wave of rockets can surpasse AD( as we have seen in Israel)….the question is that TOR M2 destroyed inside a grain cost 20M dollars….while that system when was operative shot down 2 TB2 and 6 ( Harop)…total cost 70M.

          47. occupybacon says:

            All the drones in the war were shot down by one system(vehicle)? It must be hiding very well :))

          48. Rhodium 10 says:

            I wrote almost all drones…SA-8/13 were useless…even that they manage to shot down some loitering drones like skystriker and Orbiter..2 TB2 were shot down in Martouni photos of Debris have been posted.

          49. occupybacon says:

            But I want to see how Donbassians fight drones, Russia should test its capabilities too.

          50. Nekoime Nekoprezime says:

            You are just blabbing stupidity. Have no clue about technology.

          51. occupybacon says:

            And that is why, I want to see how a wave of drones can be stopped. If you already know the answer, sell it and make a fortune.

  2. Kefir says:

    Ukraine will use Turkish suport to take donbass and turkey takes crimea, that’s the plan.

    1. HiaNd says:

      Turdoclown ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
      Turd lira is worthless, you can’t even afford to pay vacation on Crimea.

      1. occupybacon says:

        But Lira is still stronger than Ruble. Heard they are interested in SU-57. Just waiting the new sanctions to lower the price.

        1. Rhodium 10 says:

          “Lira still stronger than ruble”…if you go to an EU Bank with Lira, Grivna and Ruble to change for Euros…Banks only change Rubles while Lira and Grivna can be useful for paper toilet!…

          1. occupybacon says:

            I live in EU and can exchange all 3 but Lira is a lot more common by far. Rub second, Hryv third. So you’re bolloks :)

          2. Rhodium 10 says:

            I live in another EU country and NO Banks here change Euro for Lira ( I know it because my brother had to travel to Estambul)…No Banks change Grivna…but almost all Banks change Rubles!…

          3. occupybacon says:

            That sounds Rubbish :)

          4. Rhodium 10 says:

            Rubbish sounds Lira and Grivna

          5. occupybacon says:

            Isn’t Rubbish Russian coin?

          6. HiaNd says:

            Rubbish is Ukrainian coin, like everything else …There is only rubbish and misery in Ukraine.

          7. occupybacon says:

            Still is because Ukraine, like Armenia was Russian vassal for foo long, that’s wjat happens when you are lazy and stay vasal of a gas station instead of building an economy.

          8. HiaNd says:

            Look who is talking?!!
            Half of the population has escaped from Ukraine!
            Anybody who could walk has escaped from US vassal Ukraine.
            Ukraine is not even “gas station” you are more like beggars corner.
            People living in primitive way. In total misery in the woods like in Medieval ages…horrible !

          9. occupybacon says:

            Ahh posting gypsy living in the woods, claiming these are Ukrainians. So smart from Ruskies thinking only they have internet and all the other people are very stupid. No wonder you let your country plundered by those billionaires, you are happy that your living standard is just a bit above these gypsy you post :)

        2. HiaNd says:

          The only thing that keeps “lowering the price” (despite inflation) is your neo-NAZI Ukraine.
          No Turkey will not buy SU-57. They want it… but they do not have that kind of money. They survive on Chinese loans.

          1. occupybacon says:

            Still they have higher living standards and in Russia are more ethnic Turcic billionaires than ethnic Russians, that says a lot aboug the self respect of the resourse-richest country in the world. Too bad is populated.

          2. HiaNd says:

            And WHERE is Turkey having “higher living standards”?!!!?!
            In “Never-land” world of fantasy?
            “To bad” your fat SOW mother s h i t you
            in this world you filthy Ukrainian p i g !

          3. occupybacon says:

            Better a Ukrainian pig than a Russian rat :)

          4. HiaNd says:

            Millions of Ukrainians took Russian citizenship while NOBODY wants to become Ukrainian citizen!
            The pathetic citizen of the POOREST country in the Europe!
            So who is “rat” really?
            You who live in squalid conditions; with African standard of living or Russians who are super rich comparing to you?
            You live like rats so you must be a rats.

          5. occupybacon says:

            You are superrich?? %)) please keep an eye on your stocks, while covering yurta wall with blankets. Yurta has a single wall, right?

          6. HiaNd says:

            I am far more European than you will ever be …you would be EU citizen….You are so proud to be outside of your pathetic miserable country, with African like misery deeply encrusted in every raped by poverty Ukrainian.

          7. occupybacon says:

            Go back to yurta, moscal

          8. HiaNd says:

            Look who is talking. You have Tatar blood. And I am Western European comparing to anybody who is from Ukraine.
            So you are would be EUropean, only in name Tatar.
            Russia is huge country belonging to Asia and off course they have Asian blood also, no way around that.
            While backward (African standard of living) Ukraine doesn’t belong anywhere because bankrupted and miserable… soon to fall apart.

          9. occupybacon says:

            Poor russians instead of minding their own business and make their own country look less like a yurta, pray others to fall and bankrupt to make them look better. That’s the main difference between you and west europeans.

          10. HiaNd says:

            “pray others to fall”
            No need for “praying” Ukraine is bankrupted and falling apart even with US and EU help.
            Ukraine had the best USSR industry now your industry is ZERO.
            Ukraine was “bread basket” of USSR and today Russia is the biggest producer and exporter of the wheat in the world far above Ukraine
            Russia doesn’t only surpass your AFRICAN STANDARD OF LIVING by far but is having infinitely better prospect for future than even huge majority of EU countries while beggar Ukraine is about to die out of misery or fall apart as country.

          11. occupybacon says:

            Speaking of expirts, that wheat Russia expirts is 6.5 Billion. USA exports 450 Billion in services only, that’s basically nothing but knowledge. 90% of Russian exports are natural resources. That’s a banana republic economy. Without those natural resources you would be way below Ukraine which has close to nothing in matter of natural resources, it’s like Saudi Arabia bragging they have it better than Oman. Only Ukraine middle class standard of life is very close to Russian middle class because the money frim natural resources goes to those ruch which are not even Russians.

        3. cechas vodobenikov says:

          for a ukrop pig perhaps—not by PPP

          1. occupybacon says:

            That’s a standard for poor people to feel rich, and for males with small pp’s

    2. JIMI JAMES says:

      Turks won’t fight against chechnyans fool!

    3. SnowCatzor says:

      Well Turkey would love to, but it knows it can’t. Not even the most optimistic scenario for Erdogan would permit that.

      1. Arman Melkonyan says:

        They took NK and acquired passage to Azerbaijan and beyond going through Armenia. That’s an even greater achievement.

    4. occupybacon says:

      Hearing this plan will make some Soviet veterans to die from herth attacks instead of covid.

  3. HiaNd says:

    Turkey is just fishing for Soviet know how in building jets, jet engines, missiles, everything they can put their hands on including Soviet blueprints from bankrupted country.
    China took already everything they could (US prevented them from buying Motorsich)

  4. Zulubal Andre says:

    and the topic of next video will be the prussia to russia axis and berlin’s gas lamps…

    1. occupybacon says:

      Russia was an empire and Ukraine didn’t exist? Great idea!

  5. Carmen V says:

    You, all three, think you’re great analists, eh?

    You’re looking at the scope through Western eyes, not Turkish or islamic eyes.

    The thing is that, Erdogan may not need anyone. He intends to be the next Sultan, have you taken this into account?

    Also, the U.S. gov. is the agressive one, since the 1890 Indian Wars, the U.S. has been pricking and attacking other countries. And today, at the orders of israel, the U.S. is their vassal, attacking Iraq, Libya, and intending to do the same with Iran.

    1. Albert Pike says:

      ‘Erdogan may not need anyone. He intends to be the next Sultan’

      You seem to forget that Erdogan did do a pilgrimage to Theodor Herzl’s grave:

      Making him clearly into a guy of the Zionist/Frankist leading system, confirming what Ergün Poyraz, wrote years before about him in his book ‘The Children of Moses’, that he is of Dönmeh/crypto-Jewish descent:
      ‘Why has Turkey’s prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, helped the USA and Israel in their attacks on Syria and North Africa?
      Why do ‘anti-Americans’ in Turkey hate Erdogan’s AKP political party?
      Allegedly, Erdogan and his wife are crypto-Jews, secretly working for the New World Order.’

      Even your second part ‘to be the next Sultan’ ignores the fact that the Sultans were heavily undermined by jewish Nasi blood and interests, so came the mayority of their the harem leading wives always from the crypto Jewish Bektashis, and latest since the historical figure of Joseph Nasi:
      ‘Nasi is best known for his attempt to resettle the towns of Tiberias and Safed in 1561.[12][13] He was the first person to attempt to settle Jews in the cities of what was then Southern Syria by practical means, as opposed to waiting for the Messiah.’
      who adviced Suleiman I, who married the Ruthenian (may be Jewish lady) Hurrem Sultan
      who was the mother of Selim II who married Nurbanu Sultan:
      ‘Conflicting theories ascribe her a Venetian, Jewish[2] or Greek[3] origin. Her birth name may have been Cecilia Venier-Baffo,[4] Rachel[5] or Kalē Kartanou.[6].
      There are only two women in Ottoman history that were legally married
      to their spouses the Sultans after they were freed from slavery. Hurrem Sultan and Nurbanu Sultan achieved that…
      Jewish origin: Turkish historian Ahmet Refik believed she was of Jewish descent,[7] followed by some Turkish historians.[1]
      Cecilia Venier-Baffo: In 1900, Emilio Spagni claimed that she was a Venetian patrician, daughter of Nicolò Venier and Violanta Baffo, abducted on Paros when it was captured by Ottoman admiral Hayreddin Barbarossa in the Third Ottoman-Venetian War. The Sultana, herself, would often say she was of Venetian patrician descent, but never named her family…’

      Well Paros and Naxos, where Joseph Nasi became later the Duke of Naxos, are very near neighbouring islands and the most fitting explanation is the Turkish explanation at she was the daughter of a Yosef de Nasi (different Nasi since Joseph Nasi of Naxos was born 1524 and Nurbanu Sultan in 1525) another relative of the first Zionist in History Gracia Mendes Nasi:

      However you play it – since that time, mid of 1500 latest, are the Sultans more Jewish than Muslim…

  6. AK says:

    The only successful future for Ukraine is to move away from pro-West suicidal journey it is on, and work on fixing relations with Russia. Anyone can see that the country is in much worse shape after 2014, using any type of metric. Like in all the other ‘color’ revolutions, the country undergoing the revolution suffers the most, and western vultures descend to pick at the carcass of the country. As for Turkey, they are opportunistic and will seek any advantage with Ukraine that they can. It won’t be an equal relationship and Turkey is looking at Ukraine like a potential vassal state.

    1. occupybacon says:

      Also Russia is in worse shape than it was in 2014, the graphics are proportional with Ukraine’s ‘using any type of metric’.

      1. AK says:

        Sure, after Covid, and decline in energy prices, Russia is in worse shape in some ways than in 2014, but relatively, Ukraine is in much worse shape, in terms of the economy, debt, foreign reserves, and most importantly, borders and sovereignty. Crimea was one of the most valuable parts of Ukraine. I know its emotional issues, but it’s not like the West is the ‘good guys’ and Russia is the ‘bad guys’. The West doesn’t care about Ukraine, they pretend in order to put troops on Russia’s border and to weaken Russia in any way they can. If, in the mean time, Ukraine gets destroyed, they don’t care. Note that they are providing Loans and not grants to Ukraine. What happens if Ukraine doesn’t pay back the money in time ? They will foreclose on any assets they can like in Argentina. It’s not the smart play. The Western powers are great at marketing and selling the color revolution but it always leads to worse days.

        1. occupybacon says:

          Allways the lesser from two evils… West gives loans instead of grants, Russia cuts chunks of you, but because they care more =)

          1. AK says:

            True, either road has risks and with both relationships, the less powerful member gives up more.

        2. cechas vodobenikov says:

          Russia far better positioned today than in 2014

      2. Rhodium 10 says:

        Russia payed ( Gazprom) 2.9BM to Ukraine to avoid collapse and with that amount of money Ukraine payed debts to EU!…thats why all main EU countries allow North Stream2 included Denmark!

        1. occupybacon says:

          ROFL. EU has financial institutions that oversee the countries on how they spend the borrowed money, Russia simply doesn’t. All the money Russia give are going to politicians that eventually buy appartments with view on Central Park.

          1. cechas vodobenikov says:

            yet u ukrop nazi amerikans have debt of nearly 30 trillion$; Russia vast reserves and far less wealth income disparities than your backward LGBT PLYWOOD EMPIRE…wishful methamphetemine porky dreams

          2. occupybacon says:

            Indeed, Russians don’t have wealth disparities because none from the Muscovite wealthy class is ethnic Russian. But all workers and peasants are.

    1. RichardD says:

      This is the Jew world order omnicide plan for killing every man, woman and child on the planet. And replacing our to become extinct species with a genetically engineered caste system slave species ruled over by immortal JWO transhuman “gods”. The master plan for what’s happening on the planet at this time.

      Jones puts it in a Christian biblical perspective. I have a Christian ethos from a Christian upbringing. But from my life’s experience, and UFO and ET/ED research and contact work. I have a different perspective on what’s occurring. And it’s more technology centric than spiritual centric.

      I agree with Jones that the omnicide plan is real and is in the implementation stage. But I’m not convinced that it’s biblical prophecy coming true in a Christian end times scenario. With the qualification that some of what’s in the bible may have origins in ET/ED interaction with the development of our civilization. And to that extent some of what’s in the bible, and for that matter other spiritual ideology texts. May a basis in time forward viewing and time travel technology used by ET/ED parties interacting with our species during our development.

      In Alien Mind by George Lobuono, which I’ve read. A free copy of the ebook can be downladed at this link: http://docplayer.net/65403809-Alien-mind-a-primer-by-george-lobuono.html

      Labuono describes two versions of ETs races in our physical universe, those derived from natural procreation and laboratory procreation. What Jones is describing in the JWO omnicied plan is the attempt to transition our species from natural procreation to laboratory procreation. This may be closer to the truth than the biblical end times explanation that Jones is setting forth as the reason for the current course of events.

      There are a lot of UFO contact reports describing ET clones. That supports my view.

    1. RichardD says:

      This is from the preface to the LoBuono book Alien Mind.

      My view is that the conflict covered on SF every day is part of the struggle for the future direction of our civilization. Between a laboratory created slave species that Jews, Zionists, and their collaborators are trying to implement. And a natural procreation free species favored by those opposed to the JWO omnicide plan written, funded and being implemented by Jews, Zionists and their collaborators.

  7. RichardD says:

    Humanity is in the process of an extinction grade event at the hands of JWO Jews and Zionists who are trying to kill us all. Judaism should be outlawed worldwide and the synagogues and yeshivas permanently closed. Plans and preparations should be made to nuke Israel in response to any Israeli first strike. The Davos Jews and Zionists need to be investigated and prosecuted for their crimes. Including those involving the virus disaster.

  8. HiaNd says:

    Bring it on Turd w h o r e s,
    give Russia excuse to make one giant kebab out of Turkey !
    Turdistan can be destroyed by missiles from distance without Russian strategic bombers taking off, just bring it on p i g s.

  9. Boxman says:

    Perhaps there’s now an opportunity for a Russia-Greece-France axis to counter this.

  10. Sauron says:

    History repeats itself

  11. thomas malthaus says:

    Erdogan has domestic problems one could link with expat Russians or those about to sell their Turkey-based property. Turkey’s domestic consumer price inflation is 30 percent per annum.

    In a dictatorship or what passes for a democracy, that number has likely been low-balled.

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