Catalonia Declared Independence From Spain

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Catalonia Declared Independence From Spain

On October 27, Catalonia’s regional parliament declared its independence from Spain. Members of parliament approved a motion saying they are establishing an independent Catalan Republic with 70 votes in favor, 10 against and two blank ballots.

The motion called for beginning an independence process. This includes drafting Catalonia’s new top laws and opening negotiations “on equal footing” with Spanish authorities to establish cooperation.

“Today the parliament fulfilled the long-desired and fought-for step … in the days ahead we must keep to our values of pacifism and dignity. It’s in our, in your hands, to build the republic,” Catalan President Carles Puigdemont said after the vote.

The Federal Governemnt of Spain reacted with approving Article 155 of Spain’s 1978 Constitution suspending home rule in Catalonia.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy the Catalan parliament’s vote “illegal” and a “delinquent act.”

Now, the Spanish government will likely attempt to impose own rule in Catalonia by force.

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  • ✠Kane jeeperz✠

    Catalonia btfo

  • paul ( original )

    I am pleased about this, though it does seem rather a timid declaration
    of independence. I would be much happier to see a general
    mobilization with barricades and key installations under armed
    protection. I fear their timidity will be their downfall.

    • You can call me Al

      You do realise this was all funded by the likes of Soros. Please make your own search for this as I do not want to be seen and slagged off again as a conspirey theory nut.

      • gustavo

        Soros is a jew and thinks as a jew.

        • You can call me Al

          I agree, but even Israel have concerns about him now…. maybe he has gone rogue ?.

      • TheLulzWarrior

        So why is the EU siding with Madrid, then?

        • Daniel Castro

          Because Madrid is the capital of Spain, if EU openlu supports the break up of one of its member states it will be giving Spain grounds to leave the block unpunished.

          However we all know EU wants its member stated weaker to the point they will have no sovereignity at some point.

        • You can call me Al

          Maybe a turning point ?, Hungary have already banned Soros and I am sure the politicians know, better than we do what a slimy scumbag creature he is.

    • FlorianGeyer

      One problem with a violent insurrection is of course that the Spanish government has all the Bombs and Bullets. There are not any countries willing to arm and supply an armed insurrection ,which of course would be complete folly anyway.
      There is also the factor that the electorate is split roughly 50/50 but few of those who wish to ‘Remain in Spain’ were willing to vote in a violent referendum that they deemed illegal anyway.

      Essentially the Spanish Government must be very statesmanlike or there will be a running sore that will further degrade their delicate economy.

      • Daniel Castro

        Spain can even falsely claim those separatists are supported by russia and ask the german aiforce to help bomb them back to their places, that would be very ironic.

        • FlorianGeyer

          Unfortunately there are many crazies in the EU and NATO who will actually be considering that :)

        • Daniel Rich

          @ Daniel Castro,

          You’re remark is funny and cynical ‘in the same run’ [very much appreciated]. If only it took place in Pamplona….

      • TheLulzWarrior

        They can just stop paying taxes to Madrid, no more gibs.

        • Daniel Castro

          If sonegating taxes were that easy noone would ever pay a dime…

    • alex

      You want to see blood, right?

    • TheLulzWarrior

      Yeah, they waited too long. Thought they had pussed out.

  • gustavo

    Veamos como reacciona la mentalidad fasista de los gobernantes españoles, ¿ habrá sangre como con el fasista Franco ? ¿ Qué países en el Mundo apoyaran a este movimiento ?

    • Gabriel Hollows

      Me tienen harto estos españoles, ojalá que su país se haga pedazos.

      • TAzz Mannia

        Que te jodan.

        • Gabriel Hollows

          Tus lágrimas son deliciosas.

      • Petrus Levelleri

        Vete a llorar a otro lado, sudaca

        • Gabriel Hollows

          Haha pero si los que están llorando son ustedes, negros de la paella. Ver a la pocilga a la que llaman país desmoronarse es toda una delicia!

    • Daniel Castro

      Only 40% voted on the iliegal referendum, Spanish government has all the rights to reinforce law through force if needed.

      They want to separate to become vassals of the globalists, fuck that.

      • gustavo

        Do you want Spain kill them all, like Franco did to the socialist movement some time ago ? I means, fasist behavior is very easy to express it when you have the power, and use to kill as a legal action.

        • Daniel Castro

          Reinforcing the law =/= kill them all

          The police and the military should reiforce the law as they are supposed to do, if the separatists start the violence then they should meet adequate response.

          • gustavo

            Franco though the same.

          • Daniel Castro

            Yes, you had all sorts of international revolutionaries meddling in Spain back then, so he in fact had all the rights to defend the integrity of spanish territory against what was in fact something very alike the current syrian “civil war”.

            You might say the only problem was really the use of widespread bombing of civilian population.

            Same shit happened here in Brazil with communist trying to take power at that time, and we also had a “fascist” that averted widespread revolution and consequent millions of deaths.

          • gustavo

            Of course, that is the problem of trying to enforce the “law” at any cost. If your government administrators have a fascist mentality, they do not care to kill children, women, old men and women, whaterver, in order to mantain the land integrity. When, in reality, this land integrity does not exist anymore (mainly mentality).

          • Daniel Castro

            It’s bad with the law, worst without it.

            If you think otherwise you should move to Somalia.

          • Daniel Castro

            And again, we have here the same shitty people making ilegal referendums to separate our southern region, they call themselves anarquists, anarcocapitalists and libertarians, but what they want in fact is to be vassals of the globalist empire.

          • gustavo

            If this referendum is ilegal ¿ how can you explain that 45% persent, or 85% in favor (depending who you are talking to) ? It is not possible to explain those numbers if this would be ilegal, do you understand what I mean ? These numbers just mean that people really want to be separated.

          • Daniel Castro

            It is ilegal because it is against the constitution or the rules of the country, simple as that.

            Moreover, there were polls saying that 60% are against the separation, those who were ther eto vote were the ones in favour, most of the people who are against didn’t vote not to give legitimacy to that nonsense.

            It would be much more constructive if catalonians started a nation wide debate on this mattert and proposed a nation wide referendum, this would make it legal. The independence of a region is a matter of interest of the people of the entire country as it affects the country as a whole, those lands are public, they don’t belong only to the people of catalonia to begin with.

          • gustavo

            Well, I thin the solution would be that Spanish government (officially) makes a poll calling to all people of Catalonia to vote whether or not they want separation. This vote would be superviced by Catalunia people and government people. You do not have to kill anybody, and the goverment or Catalunia people have to accept the result of the poll. What do you think ? would the government be afraid of this poll ?

          • Daniel Castro

            Depends, I don’t know what is written on spanish constitution, here on Brazil our constitution states that all territory of Brazil belongs to all and it is not divisible in any way or form, so here we would need to change the constitution, but even then it would be impossible because on the constitution any attempt to divide our territory is a crime, even if such attempt is made by the president or lawmakers, such crime is high treason and if the country’s integrity is in danger the military can be summoned by one of the 3 powers to defend it, so taking my country as an example it is pretty impossible to separate any region on a legal basis.

            As I don’t know spanish legislation I can’t answer your question.

          • TAzz Mannia
          • Daniel Castro

            Thx, but I already imagined that it wouldn’t be separatist friendly.

          • TAzz Mannia

            Spanish Constitution, voted and approved by more than 90% of people in CATALONIA says that “Spain is non-divisible country”. Article 2.
            Read at least Preliminary Title.

            Constitution can be modified, of course. There are legal ways to do it. But not a unileteral decelaration of independence.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            it was illegal also acording to catalonian law

      • TheLulzWarrior

        Nope, because Catalonia is not Spain and of course, there was never any referendum to include Catalonia into Spain to begin with, that union as never legitimate to begin with. There is no law to be found in Madrid, only thievery and corruption.

        The whole purpose of this is that the Spanish regime blows Catalonian taxpayer money on being the corrupt, scumbag EU puppet regime that it is.

      • Hunter1324

        You are aware that’s very close to the NORMAL % of people that vote in any election in Spain.

        Here me out, if the central government manages to force elections for the 21st of December I’m betting the participiation will be even lower, specially if they don’t let Junts pel si and CUP in the Autonomic elections.

    • TAzz Mannia

      No country is supporting right now Catalonia independence. It’s a nonsense.
      When more than 50% of people DO NOT support independence, you have a big problem. Of course, only supported voted in an illegal referendum.

    • Solomon Krupacek

      speak in english

  • Enkidu

    Is he gonna chicken out after ten minutes again?

  • Will NATO bomb Madrid? Isn’t that what they did to Serbia when KLA terrorists were butchering innocent civilians?

    • FlorianGeyer

      The US Military are arming up as we speak. The CIA is transporting some of their ISIS bombers to create a False Flag attack as we.
      Trump is ready to sign off a ‘ Powerful, very powerful ‘ Cruise Missile attack.

      p.s Will all humourless Libtards here please understand that my comment is Tongue in Cheek :)
      Many a true word though has been said in jest.

    • TheLulzWarrior

      The Spanish regime supported the bombing of Serbia.

      • Daniel Castro

        You can’t correct a mistake with another mistake.

      • Petrus Levelleri

        Spain supported the bombing of the Serbian regime

        • Goran Grubić HardyVeles

          Well, we here in Serbia have joke about it:
          “4000 civilians killed, 0 Slobodan Milošević killed”
          sounds, kind of failure, right? hahahah

          “The Serbian regime” was legally elected, on almost free elections (elections were ok, but media bias was not) with support rate far greater then any US president had any time (I imagine Trump has ~50% support, and he is the closest to Milošević on that metric). Regarding that elections, media bias was nothing compared to what Trump survives every day since elected. So, if the US is still considered democracy, Milošević’s Jugoslavia was democratic dreamland. Also, we had a referendum ~year before the NATO aggression – question was about OSCE mission on Kosovo, of course we understood well that was in fact question: do you support we go in war with NATO? Result was YES higher than 95%, so, it was war against Serbs as people – like it was 4 years before when NATO bombed Serbs in Bosnia – we are pain in the ass to the Globalists and we are in that war since beginning of Serbia

        • Lars

          Spain supported nato expansion and ethnic cleansing and a war of aggression, under the pretext of human rights violations – apparently fighting nato and cia backed terrorists is illegal. One should always remember the Spanish war criminal Solana, who crawled up the cia asshole in 68′ and never crawled out.

      • Goran Grubić HardyVeles

        On the other had, Spain never recognized Kosovo (that declared independence without referendum, which is veeryyy interesting fact)

    • Petrus Levelleri

      Are you serious to compare Spain and Catalonia with the other shithole in the Balkans?

      • The point is that NATO is a terrorist organization. In Syria, Serbia, Libya and more, Natzi Alliance of Terrorist Organizations support Jihadist terrorists. You focus on whether Serbia is a perfect analogy for Spain. It isn’t but that isn’t the point of my comment.

      • Goran Grubić HardyVeles

        We are “shithole”? We are protecting Europe from Islamization for last 6 centuries. It is so nice to see people know how to respect that favor. No wonder why we were betrayed by the West. Ok, now, the Europe has to solve its problem with islamization without us. They got what they wanted. We already done our part in 1389 (the greatest battle between Christians and Muslims
        ever – in numbers – but that’s because we are shits from the shithole – I get it)

    • Daniel Rich

      “How do you explain ‘We are truly f***ed!’ in 140 characters?” – Tee Rump

    • Augsta “Augsta”

      Stop with the B.S. That’s what the Serbs were doing killing civilians I know NATO is a piece of shit but that war was a just war against that as whole Slobodan melosivic Bastard get your facts stra8. num nuts !!!!!

      • Goran Grubić HardyVeles

        “the Serbs were doing kiling civilians” – How you imagine that is truth when Kosovo lost (by their census) 36000 people including KLA terrorists, civilian losses and the ones that NATO killed (there were so many “wrong identifications”) in war that lasted almost ~4 years and our forces were controlling 95% of territory for the most of that period? I was shocked hearing such small number – but an Albanian told me that when I visited Kosovo last time. So, 4 years – 36,000 people, including KLA and NATO wild bombing. Check stats. on any war in history you’ll see its very low. So, civilian deaths has nothing to do with reasons behind NATO occupation.

        • Goran Grubić HardyVeles

          … and certainly it can’t explain why Medlin Olbrait is owner of Kosovo mobile network, why Gen. Vesely Klark is owner of coal mines… why everything is owned by the same group of people that pushed NATO to attack us. Albanians are not idiots, they see what happen. That could be one of reasons why Kosovo never had referendum on independence.

      • Lars

        Nonsense, the attack against Serbs was always well prepared media-wise (targeted nations are always portrayed as “Indians” , as savages) . Google the James Harff interview. Ruder finn was just one of the several beltway PR companies, partaking in demonization propaganda.

  • PZIVJ

    Does this mean Barcelona is to be bombed until they rescind their vote? :DD

    • Solomon Krupacek

      nazi, back in the rathole!

  • gustavo

    ¿ Alguna vez España ha perdido perdón a Latinoamérica por las atrocidades que cometieron durante la época cololial a los indígenas ? o ¿ ha devuelto las riquezas (artísticas, ya no digamos el oro) que se robaron de Latinoamérica ? o ¿ a perdido perdón por haver dejado gente ignorante, corrupta y criminal como sus desendientes después de la colonia en donde aún estas cabecillas descriminan y explotan a los indígenas aún presentes ? NOOO, ¿ verdad ? Por lo tanto, yo creo que Latinoamérica debe de apoyar ael movimiento de independencia de Catalonia.

    • TAzz Mannia

      Yes, here we say the same about Romans. Next time I will be at Rome I’m going to ask for Galician gold and some kind of compensation for all iberians killed during Roman conquer around century I BC. Stupidity is universal, I’m afraid.
      By whe way, write in English, not in Spanish.

    • Daniel Castro

      Incas and astecs were tyrants, most south american native tribes were canibal in constant warfare, hatred was their religion and they didn’t have any hope for a world where you wouldn’t eat or be eaten.

      They had nothing, there was no concept of property, not even their lives were their own, they were just food eating each other, theycan’t claim to be robbed of anything, and the more inteligent tribes allied themselves with the conquerers and were saved by christianity, the savage ones fought to death, and many just died because they had no immunity to european diseases.

      • Solomon Krupacek

        this is not so

        • Daniel Castro

          If you really knew our history you wouldn’t deny it.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            i know better then you. you learn falsified history.

          • Daniel Castro

            So give me the name of one south american tribe.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            yanomamo. in two years i will visit them

          • Daniel Castro

            Yanomamis were the last tribe to be found on the 20th century and it is one peacefull one, there were eaths caused by criminals and gold miners, but they are largely protected by the government and laws.

            There are reports of more tribes untouched by modern civilization.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            arawak, kechua, aymara (i am learning kechua), patagones, charrua, guarani …

          • Daniel Castro

            Yes, most of the tribes you quoted were exactly the more peaceful ones that aligned themselves with the conquerers, with exception of the charruas, it seems you never heard about the Aimorés, Tupinambas, Caribas, and many others.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            tupinambas, caribas yes.

            i hate typing. when i wll go in south america, i vist you :) you can me talk a lot of about brasilian indians :)
            and also about not indians :D

          • Daniel Castro

            Few tribes left where I live, but some historic colonial cities with lots of baroque churchs and art, I don’t know if that interests you.

            I guess the most popular places to visit here in Brazil are northeatern beaches, the amazon region, Pantanal, and Iguaçu falls.

            If you like sexual tourism and getting robbed you go to Rio de Janeiro.

          • So you are Brazilian. I understandi now, You and your country exist because of the Portuguese. My country and its history go back to 3500 BC. We had a civilization then and your ancestors were eating raw meat and living in caves.

          • Daniel Castro

            So the genocide of brazilian tribes have your seal of approval?

          • “So the genocide of brazilian tribes have your seal of approval?” Is this answer addressed to me? If that is so, I will clarify. When I said that your ancestors were eating raw meat, I meant the Europeans because given your enthusiasm for defending them, I guess you are of European stock. 4500 years ago -the time of the first civilization in Peru- your ancestors -Portuguese or whatever- were not the “highly civilized” you are so proud about. This shows that history does not progress as a continuous line.

          • Daniel Castro

            I can’ t trace my ancestrality to 4500, what if I have egyptian ancestors, I don’t know.

            This is not a contest about who has the oldest civilization, my argument is you can’t blame everything that happened on europeans.

            You don’t need to hate me because I’m “white”, I sure don’t hate you, and I find all history beautiful and interesting, including Incas.

          • If I mentioned the civilizational state of your ancestors is to show you how relative it is to say “hey we were so much more advanced” as you do when you write and compare European and native societies. On the other hand, it is funny that you say that you don’t hate me when above you state an absolute lie about this “…hatred was their religion and they didn’t have any hope for a world where you wouldn’t eat or be eaten.” If somebody had hatred as religion was precisely the Spanish who saw the need to torture in order to “convince” people about their faith. We lived a life more in tune with nature.

          • Daniel Castro

            I never claimed they were more advanced, I aid Incas were tryants, I never said spanish were not tyrants.

            Yes, you lived more in tune with nature, and that means the rule of the stronger, there were human sacrifices and such, you can’t deny it was ruthless society, and of course spanish were ruthless too, but on european culture there was the seed for a the more tolerant world we have today.

          • It is foolish to say the Incas were tyrants. This is using a western concept to define something that they didn’t understand because it was completely alien to their own experience. So you keep making generalizations? When you write about human sacrifices, I guess you mean the Brazilian tribes. In the Inca Empire there were very few cases. The Aztecs were another story. So what? Do we have to justify ourselves for our own way of government? Whatever we did, it is something that only concerns us. Surely “the more tolerant world” as you call your ancestors is the one that committed the worst crimes in history from making enslavement an international trade to two world wars and the current destruction ofd the planet.

          • Daniel Castro

            My argument about Inca tirany is just to explain the fact that they were also hated by other local tribes who allied with the spanish to take them down, so to say everyone, all the peoples are to blame for everthing that happened in history, if the Incas were nicer to other tribes such tribes wouldn’t ally with spanish conquerers to overthrow them.

            Yes, huge wars happened exactly because there were those who tried to remake civilization at their own image, it was not the fault of those who preached tolerance.

            And international trade always happened, there is reports the chinese would trade as far as mexico much before the europeans were here.

            Slavery too is something that always happened one way or another.

          • The fact that other tribes allied themselves with the Spanish is because evidently nobody likes to be dominated. These tribes believed the lies the Spanish told them. Little did they know that they were sealing their fate when they decided to suppport the invaders. Had they known that they’d become servants exploited to death, I assure you they wouldn’t have been so fickle.

          • Daniel Castro

            So, the Incas were tyrants, just like spanish, I prove my point.

          • I think you should stop using concepts that do not appply. No, they were not tyrants. Tyrants were your kings.

          • Daniel Castro

            Tyrant is someone who rule for himself and not for others, if Incas ruled for themselves at the cost of other tribes they were, indeed, tyrants, and that explains why the tribes rebeled… just to discover later spanish were tyrants too…

            You know whatm everyone will be a tyrant without very explicit rules giving them limits, nowadays we have USA, tomorrow might be the chinese.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            no, sexual turism not is my goal :)
            yes, north east is also for me interesting.

            how is now in Mato Grosso?

          • Daniel Castro

            There is always hot as hell, we are facing soem kind of droght across the country right now, rainy season is the best time to go there, but is also the hottest.

          • Solomon Krupacek

            i am fascinated with jungles in amazonia

          • Daniel Castro

            Better to come fast before they chopp them all then…

          • Solomon Krupacek

            :(

          • Daniel Castro

            Hehe, don’ t wory I was kind of kidding… the rate of forest destruction reduced a lot lately…

            It doesn’t change the fact we lost a lot on the last decades though…

          • Sure you must be one of those white trash in here who thinks you are better than the natives. What is your point of asking him to name tribes? Ok my tribe is Quechua. So what?

          • Daniel Castro

            I also have native blood, probably nto as much as you though, our blood is the same color though…

          • If you have native blood, at least you should, for the sake of decency, not spread lies and falsehoods. Maybe the tribes in your country were all cannibal. I doubt it. But don’t put us all in the same bag. Even if this were the case, so what? Did this give the right to Europeans to invade and destroy the civilizations and societies they found? This “natives were backward and killed each other by the thousands” is only a poor argument by Europeans to justify their crimes. What are you doing taking the side of Europeans? Are Brazilians Europeans?

          • Daniel Castro

            Back then there was no such thing as right to invade, strong empires would grow, like the inca, and would be conquered if they were weak. IF you think Incas were all nice and never commited any aggression to other tribes you are deluded, it was always about military power.

            The same happened to iberian people when they were conquered by the moors, they had to reconquer their territories and were in constant struggle just to survive as a people, always under threat of invasion, and that is how it worked, you conquered or was conquered, and that is why they were sailing across the oceans because they were cornered in europe and had to find a way out, they ended up here and conquered here, that’s just how it worked, nothing more, nothing less.

            Of course when they came here they changed the dynamics of local conflicts, but the same law would apply here too, it’s just the Incas stopped being the stronger power in the region and lost their supremacy, thus they fell.

            Stop judging history.

          • Who said my ancestors, the Incas, were “all nice”? Again,this is the same old tired argument from Europeans- are you European?- to justify their crimes. My point is that we would have been much better without the European invasions. Well, it happened and there was nothing we can do about it. But at least if someone is going to say something about it, that person should try to be accurate. Otherwise he is just being an Uncle Tom.

          • Daniel Castro

            You don’t know how things would work out, perhaps our Tupinamabas could organize a barbarian canibal horde and climb your mountains eating and conquering your falling inca empire always engulfed in civil wars. Or even the Inca empire could grow even stronger and conquer brazilian lands doing to our peaceful tribes exactly the same stuff the spanish did to you.

            All I’m saying is we are all humans, and on history it was always the rule of the stronger.

          • You seem to overlook something called weltanschauung. Whenever there were conquests in the Andes region, and since we all shared the same “cosmovisión”, we never tried to destroy and crush the other society. That is why the Inca pantheon was full of the other civilizations’ Gods and their elites came to Cusco to study and learn the Inca ways. When the Europeans came, their vision of the world was completely different and they only cared about greed and religion.

          • Daniel Castro

            Rome also would integrate other peoples gods on their panteon… Were romans all nice and good? No, they were an empire, they didn’t like to genocide the people they conquered, but they would if it was needed to fulfill their domination, and this also probably was true to Incas, however we don’t have as many accounts for Incas as we have for romans.

          • We were not Romans. There are accounts about Inca rule and coming directly from Spanish “cronistas” and if you had read them, you would not have been so casual in mentioning the “savages” and our customs.

          • Daniel Castro

            I’m talking about pre-colombian times.

            I don’t think Incas were savages, they were indeed a civilization, an empire that ruled over other peoples like many empires there were in history.

          • Daniel Castro

            I’m not taking the side of europeans, I take the side of modern civilization as I don’t think overthrowing modern civlization will bring anything but barbarism and tragedy.

            Dismembring spain will only bring chaos to spain, will only strngthem the postion of thoe who want to see us all fighting wach other for profit.

          • There is something called internatioonal law that suppports the Catalans’ drive for independence. The same happened in the 1990s with the dismemberment of Yugoslavia. Then the US as well as NATO said that the nations inside that country had the right to choose an independent path. The Spanish supported this split up. But now the hypocrites whine because it is affecting them.

          • Daniel Castro

            Dismemberment of Yugoslavia was a major crime against humanity, then they created a precedent with kosovo independence and that was a HUGE mistake, and spain never recognized Kosovo, yo uare wrong, blinded by hatred.

          • Mr. Costelol

            Yugoslavia was too developed for Germany’s tastes and too competitive (it’s better to have a colony than a competitor). The occupation of Kosovo is to deprive Serbia of independence (Serbia has 500-700 years of coal there for it’s needs) , numerous minerals and metals worth well over a trillion dollars. The establishment of a base of occupation (Bondsteel (2nd largest in Europe) – built on 2 leveled Serbian villages) is to control South-East Europe (Stabilize/Destabilize). Thirdly, to control communication towards the black sea – for the war against Russia. The avarice of the western elites and yes men is a crime against humanity, against all of us – because it leads to the END.

            P.S. Serbia supports the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Spain.

          • Daniel Castro

            Patriots around the world should unite against the evil of globalism.

          • The right of self-determination is an international law tenet. Spain led by its fascist leaders want to trample on this. Rajoy’s sacking of Catalan President Carles Puidgemont and other Catalan authorities is lawless and malicious. This IS a type of behaviour characteristic of a tyrant, one where a police state represses and exploits its people. A tyrant, smart ass, is “an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or person, or one who has usurped legitimate sovereignty. Often described as a cruel character, a tyrant defends his position by oppressive means, tending to control almost everything in the stateThe Incas never did that with their subjects”. These were not traits of our kings in Cusco, but they define your royals in Europe. Their democracy is a farce because only monied interests rule and the rights and welfare of the common people are totally ignored.

          • I can see below that you have upvoted the rant of a Spaniard who rather than using arguments to defend hs views he insults viciously a person he disagrees with. Good to see the kind of ilk you belong to.

          • Daniel Castro

            Please, refer to me a a brazilian, I’m not european, we brazilians alwas had strong sense of national identity all the way back to the 19th century, there was never here this concept of white are them, and native or black are true owners of the land. Research brazilian history and will understand that the beginning was when Diogo Álvares Correia married princess Paraguaçu, it was not a conquest through arms, but an alliance between a Tupinambá tribe and the portuguese, much for the interest of the natives.

            A for the tyrant concept, it is an aristotelean one, and it means exactly that, it is the oposition of monarch (one who rules for all), tyrant is one who rules for himself, you don’t need to go over the board and pick a very complex definition of the word to suit your interests.

            AS for the right of self-determination, it was exactly what happened to the tribes who aligned themselves with pizarro, they wanted to break away from Inca rule, so they aligned themselves with the foreign invader, so you shouldn’t be complaining. If catalonians find a foreign sponsor to help them break away from Spain their fate will be the same of native tribes who brak away from Incas, they will just be enslaved.

            The nation-state is the cornerstone of world stability, if you allow international institutions to break it we will be at the verge of global conflict, don’t be naive.

          • Mr. Costelol

            The dismemberment of Yugoslavia was planned in 1976, and agreed upon by the USA, Germany, and the Vatican (French General Pierre Marie Gallois). Numerous appropriations bills were voted for prior to the war in the US congress, and senate. The interesting part was it was in contravention of the constitution of the land, as well as republic constitutions. The parts of Croatia and Bosnia inhabited by Serbs voted to stay in Yugoslavia, henceforth they demanded to breakaway from the breakaway republics. Serbs were in the way of Nato expansion, so no mercy was shown. More interesting was the pressure and blackmail exerted by Germany and the vatican towards European partners re: the signing of the maastricht treaty (Hans van den Broek). The Maastricht treaty killed Yugoslavia. German BND agents were already dying in Slovenia from early 91. International law meant nothing then but interests, and this is the way of the future.

      • Don’t talk nonsense. Tyrants were the thives of kings tjhat you had. For one thing, the Incas had no use for gold as a means of enrichment. I don’t know where you got your idiotic rant about “most native tribes were cannibal”. I am a native and your “opinions” are based on either ignorance or what Marthin Luther King called conscientious stupidity. By the same token I can say that all Europeans were killing each other by burning -a stupid generalization to counter another one.

        • Daniel Castro

          “Pizarro was named governor and captain of all conquests in Peru, or New Castile, as the Spanish now called the land.”[22]

          When they returned to Peru in 1532, a war of brothers between the sons of Huayna Capac, Huáscar and Atahualpa, and unrest among newly conquered territories weakened the empire. Perhaps more importantly, smallpox had spread from Central America. Pizarro did not have a formidable force. With just 168 men, one cannon, and 27 horses, he often talked his way out of potential confrontations that could have easily wiped out his party.

          The Spanish horsemen, fully armored, had technological superiority over the Inca forces. The traditional mode of battle in the Andes was a kind of siege warfare where large numbers of usually reluctant draftees were sent to overwhelm opponents. The Spaniards developed one of the finest military machines in the premodern world, tactics learned in their centuries-long fight against Moorish kingdoms in Iberia. Along with their tactical and material superiority, the Spaniards acquired tens of thousands of native allies who sought to end the Inca control of their territories.”

          Incas were also an empire and were hated by the native population, the same for the Aztecs, Spanish conquerers were most of the time a few more than 100 soldiers and would accomplish nothing without local help.

          Your ancestors very probably fought against Incas on the side of the spanish, and that’s why you’re here.

          Enough said.

          • ??? what is this that you copy and pasted? Of course that when the Spanish arrived we were in the middle of a civil war and they took advantage of this. So? Surely that in tems of weapons, Europe was ahead. However, in terms of administration, roads, common wealth, the Inca Empire was much more advanced. For one thing nobody was hungry nor were people brutally exploited like in Europe where the kings were just a bunch of thieves.

          • Daniel Castro

            Because you had potatoes, potatoes also ended the hunger in europe.

          • Not only potatoes. We had institutions like the Minka, the Ayni, etc as well as the Tambos which were set up to prevent people from going hungry in years of bad harvests. The inca rule was paternalistic and Europeans cannot come with their concepts to tell us how we had to govern ourselves.

          • Daniel Castro

            Fact is you overthrowed yourselves, that can’t be denied.

          • Daniel Castro

            Also, Incas in never had real competition, life on europe was not that easy, I wonder how much time they would last with the moors as their neighbors.

    • alex

      ¿Realmete crees que es razón suficiente para todo este ridículo que hace quinientos años se colonizó América con sus tristes consecuencias? Tu comentario delata tu odio a España, y lo mas triste es que seguramente seas español ya que sois esa pequeña parte de españoles los que más odian este país. Pero te voy a decir una cosa: NO LO VAIS A CONSEGUIR!!!!

      • gustavo

        No hay justificación para la maldad, no puedes deicr que debido a que ellos son malos también yo haré la maldad. Tengo sangre española e indígena y de ambos estoy orgulloso. No por ello no dejo de ver los errores de uno y del otro, y las virtudes de uno y de otro. Si España hubiese tenido en mente construir un país fuerte en Latinoamérica en vez de saquearlo, explotarlo, y esclavizarlo, ahora sería el país más poderoso del orbe (aún mucho más que USA), pero cometió un error grave en el pasado y, lo pasado es pasado. Sin embargo, Lationamérica aún sufre la consecuencia de nuestros ancestros ignorantes, criminales, y déspotas que vinieron de Europa, aunque dejame decirte que mucho después (siglo pasado) Latinoamérica se benefició de Franco dado que vino a refujiarse mucha gente educada, preparada e inteligente a este continente.
        De cualquier manera, tarde o temprano, un país debería (idealmente) reconocer los errores (o crímeres) de su pasado, eso es todo, y no veo que la mentalidad española (governantes) sea de este tipo.

        • Daniel Castro

          Your narrative is nonsense, do you really think it was spanish or portuguese choice to come here? That is ridiculous, that was a historic movement far beyond the power of any individual or nation to stop.

          Portuguese didn’t want to come to america, they wanted to reach India and found us by chance, at the time all powers were at war and fighting for resources or trade routes, if they didn’t try to take our largely undefended territory other would, and history shows the dutch, english and french were far more genocidal than the iberians.

          Another misconception, they didn’t have enough population to conquer america, what happened is very few conquerers came here and made alliances with some of the tribes and were caught in the perpetual warfare that ruled the americas, as they had superior weapons they ended up winning, but most of the killing were made by the natives and miscigenated population.

          Ii is very easy to lay all the blame on europeans, fact is all the world was ruled by barbarity and if there is something like the concept of universal law and universal rights it is due to europeans, denying that is hipocrisy.

          • Gabriel Hollows

            No one is hating on Europeans in general, just the Spaniard paella-niggers. Nearly every single nation they conquered was left a complete shithole because their Arab blood prevented them from doing anything but rape and plunder the lands they conquered.

          • Daniel Castro

            All the english did was kill and expel 100% of the population where they were and proceed stealing their neghbours, and that is how you made your empire.

    • Petrus Levelleri

      Cállate llorón sudaca. Después de daros una cultura, una lengua, una religión decente (la vuestra de los sacrificios humanos era una mierda), tecnología sin la cual seguiríais en el calcolítico, etc. después de todo aún llorais. Ojalá os hubiese conquistado los anglosajones, os hubiesen exterminado a todos como han hecho con los indios de norteamérica. Sois unos idiotas desagradecidos. Ah, que igual ni eres indígena, seguramente seas un blanco o un mestizo, descendiente de criollos traidores. Qué ironía, Gustavito.

      • jvelilla

        El fascista en su salsa.

      • jvelilla

        El fascista en su laberinto.

    • Gabriel Hollows

      Me vale verga lo que hayan hecho sus ancestros, lo que sí me parte de la risa es que incluso hoy se atreven a ser la gente más arrogante e insufrible que puedes conocer, todo mientras van por ahí evenenando a todo lo que les rodea con su fumadera enfermiza.

      Ni te imaginas el gusto que me da ver a su país de mierda hacerse trizas.

  • Russian225

    Awesome stuff. Spain was very quickly to recognise breakaway USSR and Yugoslavia regions, now they will know how it feels.

    • TAzz Mannia

      Spain has NEVER recognized Kosovo. You can imagine why…

    • Solomon Krupacek

      ussr was destroyed by russians gorbi + yeltsin

    • Petrus Levelleri

      Your government is not as ***** as you. They won’t recognise a shit. BTW, Catalonia is going nowhere, wait and see…

  • TiredOfBsToo

    If Catalonia had been a former Soviet state, the US government would’ve been the first country to acknowledge their independence, probably the first second after the vote.

  • Solomon Krupacek

    Two days ago, Dmitri Medoyev, south-osetian indepemdence maniac. friend of dimitriy medvedev dagestanian russian guy secretly visited the katalonian leaders. Putin is again shitmixer.
    russia will lose everything, if will interfere in european union.

    on the picture medvedev (sinister) and medoyev (rectus)
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/335848c1b72bc23ea0502f661a190d3eacf810c62924a4f48080bf24671038cd.jpg

    • Volker Burkert

      I think the “maniac” is you. What does south-osetian independence have got do with the european union. Take a look at the map.

      • Solomon Krupacek

        he is russian lady nuland

      • Solomon Krupacek

        yup. actually putin gave me right. russia is the only country, which talks about accepttion of katalunia.
        so, ruskies, we will be happy to greet fre chechya, tatarstan, finnish karelia, fre jamal-nyenyents republic, and so on … putin began chass play, at of which end russia will be splitted.

  • GroundlessAir

    And yet they’ve done nothing to stop the occupants docking their ship in Barcelona with potential to seize government institutions of free Catalonia?

  • Shy Talk

    saddened to see this happening,both sides need to come to their senses and talk, if ‘outside forces’ have played a part in this, then anyone who has conspired with them, should be tried as traitors

  • The Farney Fontenoy
  • SOF

    Good luck Catalonia. Fuck the EU.

    • Gabriel Hollows

      ¡QUE VIVA CATALUÑA, CARAJO!

    • Solomon Krupacek

      Vivat EU!

  • Gabriel Hollows

    ¡Ya no se sabe que es lo que va a acabar con los negros de la paella! Si el cáncer de pulmón, los inmigrantes, ¡o la guerra civil que se les avecina!

    Por mi parte continuaré cagándome de la risa mientras veo a los joder tíos desaparecer por televisión HD.