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AUGUST 2020

Bolivian Coup Leader Announces Presidential Bid in Upcoming Elections

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Bolivian Coup Leader Announces Presidential Bid in Upcoming Elections

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On December 1st, Luis Fernando Camacho announced that he would run for President in the upcoming Bolivian elections.

He is a Bolivian oligarch and one of the suddenly appeared opposition leaders, responsible for the military coup in Bolivia.

Following Morales’ resignation, protest leader Luis Fernando Camacho stormed into Bolivia’s presidential palace, with a Bible in his hands. Essentially, he showed that the far-right opposition had overthrown the leftist government under Evo Morales.

Camacho was the leader of a right-wing fascist group, Max Blumenthal’s investigation into Bolivian opposition figures showed.

Wyatt Reed, one of the journalists reflecting the situation in Bolivia from inside the country interviewed Maribel Vargas – a member of “former” Bolivia President Evo Morales’ party MAS, who said that “fascist shock troops” brutalized her and others when they were celebrating Evo’s win in the October 20th elections.

According to her, those that carried out the military coup began their efforts as early as in August, when the Amazon fires were happening. She claimed that Bolivia President Evo Morales was blamed as the first stage of the coup against him.

In terms of foreign policy that required changing, the right-wing coup government restored relations with Israel on November 28th.

Foreign Minister Karen Longaric made the announcement in a meeting with foreign reporters, without giving a date for the establishment or giving any other details.

Evo Morales cut relations with Israel in December 2008 when an Israeli offensive in Gaza left hundred of Palestinians dead.

“It was a political measure that did not take into effect the collateral effects, such as economic and trade issues,” said Longaric, adding that restoring these ties would be good for the Bolivian tourism industry.

To show that support for Evo Morales is still strong in Bolivia, a poll by Atlas Electoral showed that if elections took place on November 22nd, 12 days after he resigned and left for Mexico, he and his party would win 57% of the vote.

Protests throughout Latin America took place on December 1st in support for Bolivia.

Regardless, there is still very limited information regarding what is happening inside Bolivia, and that is due to the revoking of media licenses of many of the outlets covering the situation in the country.

The majority of information that comes out is of “democratic” actions undertaken by the coup government and self-proclaimed interim president Jeanine Anez. They are mostly to the benefit of the US, and now Israel.

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  • Chris Gr

    He looks Native American. I thought that the new government is against them. My bad…

    • Tudor Miron

      Camacho is the one on the right as far as I understand.

      • Chris Gr

        He is not white either.

        • Tudor Miron

          Spanish. But that’s not what matters. What matters is what he’s doing and that’s dragging Bolivia back into role of a colony.

          • Chris Gr

            What’s wrong with having colonies? Nothing except in the minds of ultra-leftists.

          • Tudor Miron

            What’s wrong? What country you are from? Would you like your country to be a colony? Will there be anything wrong for you to be a 2nd rate human? Will there be anything wrong with your country being looted on behalf of foreign powers while your own people live in poverty? Or you are one of those who hope to take the role of comprador “elites”/those who facilitate looting of their people for a little share from their foreign masters?

          • Chris Gr

            I am from Greece. However, I will ask your questions when you leave sensationalism. Native Americans also had empires and colonies and many of them allied with the Spanish, the British, the French, the Portuguese, etc … Life is much more complicated than the reductionistic communistic model.

          • Tudor Miron

            Greece? That’s a good example of crypto colony. No wonder that it is when it’s citizens think that it is alright. Or would you dare to claim that Greece is an independent country?
            Saying that Native Americans also had empires allied with Spanish/British etc. :) yeah that was a nice little twist. What they had was nothing other than comprador elites submitting to western powers for their little share of sheckels.

          • Chris Gr

            And Evo Morales is a Chinese puppet. And the Russians want him in order to get in the backyard of US. But they still recognize the new government and they will have relations after the elections. So much for anticolonialism?
            Also, the socialist dictators of Ethiopia, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Iraq jailed many people, tortured them and made their countries so dangerous. While in Libya, Ethiopia, Egypt and Iraq monarchy was far better. The only dictator that remains is Assad and he has liberalized everything, at least after 2015. Syria had problems even when it had democracy, however, if Syria had had democracy or constitutional monarchy, things would have been much better.

            Greece is doomed because of our bad politicians, most of them are of socialist bent. Corrupt to the core. If we weren’t in the EU and NATO, Turkey and Albania and Bulgaria would destroy us.
            Not elites but whole armies were allies of English, Spanish, French and Portuguese empires because they had certain interests.

          • S Melanson

            Ok. Greece is saved by the EU and NATO from Turkey, Albania and Bulgaria. But Greece is doomed because of very bad politicians – bad and corrupt for taking orders as vassals to the EU – welcome to neo-colonialism that looks and functions much like the colonialism of old.

            So if colonialism is not to bad, how do you accept what is happening. The EU protect you? No, they prevent others from pillaging Greece because they want to pillage Greece themselves.

            For a Greece to escape doom, Greece needs to make decisions in the interests of Greeks, not their neo-colonial masters

          • Alberto Garza

            do you think the u.s. is bad ? wait until the chinese communist arrive in your country . they are barbaric.

          • S Melanson

            As I said, chart your own course. If China replaces the US, I just say here’s the new boss, same as the old boss (or worse)

          • Chris Gr

            Both US and China are barbaric.

          • roland

            I wasn’t aware of the Chinese government practicing child sacrificing as they do in the good old US of A im presuming you have heard of the illuminati those fucks take barbarity to another level and Geuss what they seem to have full control of the United states government

          • Chris Gr

            Without the EU will be pillaged worse. The problem are our politicians not the EU or NATO.

          • S Melanson

            Do not disagree, but the lesser of two evils does not seem good either. Your politicians gave away the farm and so a good point. Other nations will always be there to pillage and it is the politicians not to cave in that is necessary. Obviously your politicians sold you out. Is it not time for the people to do something about it?

          • Chris Gr

            Yeah probably.

          • roland

            The USA jails and tortures more than Libya Syria and Iraq and you say Syria had democracy things would have been much better bullshit democracy is the worst form of government because anyone can get into a position of power and that means evil people can get into positions of power very easily and that’s what’s happened in all western governments i would honestly prefer to live in Russia or Syria at the moment than in a western country we are all sitting ducks unarmed divided and half asleep at least.in Syria Russia Iran etc there is some shelter from the sick evil fucks that run our governments.

          • Tudor Miron

            Well said. Western “democracy” is nothing other than plutocracy. Higher level of living was kept by looting the rest of the world.

          • Chris Gr

            USA is slowly turning into a communist state. No democracy there. Democracy, however, and capitalism are far better than socialist dictatorships. Russia has democracy. Iran has democracy however, it is theocratic. Syria has liberalized after 2015. Life in Ba’athist Syria was pretty bad. I have talked about the states of Ethiopia, Libya, Egypt and Iraq and how they were screwed when they overthrew the pro-Western monarchs and installed socialistic dictatorships. Also, Syria, Algeria, Yemen and Somalia have been screwed by socialism and anti-Western sentiment. Civil wars and jihadists … failure of socialism made a lot of islamofascists and civil wars. If these states had democracies or monarchies they wouldn’t end up like that. Syria, for example, monarchy is difficult but if it run by a party like some Aramaic pro-Western and democratic party it will be far better than Assad.

          • roland

            You don’t seem to be taking into account who controls western governments they have big plans for us and nothing they are planning will be good for anyone

          • Chris Gr

            There are many different factions, that are fighting with each other. However, we also have Central, Eastern, Northern and Southern Europe not only the Western.

          • AM Hants

            Russia want him to get into the backyard of the USA?

            ……………..

            What you mean like the US has done to Russia?

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/301bea7aa7a285a9f779164d8d06c85bf1c3246033cbffbdf32010500f707595.jpg

          • Chris Gr

            I don’t disagree. This is politics.

          • AM Hants

            Who would you trust?

            President Assad interview with Afshin Rattansi of RT Going Underground – 11/11/2019… https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=president+assad+with+his+people&&view=detail&mid=B418324671EA9EF7DE7BB418324671EA9EF7DE7B&&FORM=VRDGAR

            President Bashar al-Assad filmed driving himself to the Syrian civil war’s front line… https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=president+assad+with+his+people&&view=detail&mid=8FBF03D910CA92726AC48FBF03D910CA92726AC4&&FORM=VRDGAR

            or

            Madeleine Albright says 500,000 dead Iraqi Children was “worth it” wins Medal of Freedom
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE

            HILLARY CLINTON REMIX… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqYJRc0TJkQ

          • Chris Gr

            Hillary is pure evil. But Assad is no angel.

          • AM Hants

            Nobody had any problem with President Assad, prior to 2012, when he refused to hand over his nation’s natural resources to the pillagers? Plus, his nation had no Rothschild Central Bank or debt, did they?

            President Assad, who was working in England, as an opthalmic surgeon, where he met his wife. President Assad who had a Royal State Visit in his honour. Then Obama and friends decided they wanted the natural resources of Syria and President Assad was not going to roll over, have his tummy tickled, and hand them over.

          • Chris Gr

            This is the half of the story. Assad had enmity with several states. With the Saudis, because he was against Wahhabism, he was correct on that one. With the Turks because he supported PKK and he wanted the Hatay province. With the Jordanians because he supported the PLO. With the Moroccans because he supported the Polisario Front. With the Iraqis because he was the enemy for the other half of the Ba’athists. Not to mention that he was against Israel and the Brotherhood. Because of his enmity with Israel he earned Lebanese, Palestinian, Iraqi and Iranian support. Because of his enmity with the Brotherhood he earned firstly Russian and then Azeri, Uzbek, Kazakh, Tajik, Afghan, Algerian, Egyptian, Yemeni, Armenian, Kurdish, Assyrian, Sudanese, Libyan, Jordanian, Emirati and Omani support. And because of his enmity with US imperialism he earned the support of states like Bolivia, Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, China, South Africa, Vietnam, North Korea and other anti-US nations. He also earned the support of far-right and far-left groups. Reality is complex.

          • AM Hants

            So, President Assad, the leader of a secular, sovereign nation, has a problem with Wahhabism, cannot fault him there. How much has Saudi invested in the overthrow of the Syrian Leader? Not forgetting their own Human Rights Abuses.

            The Turks, well, Erdogan does make me laugh, but, didn’t he also wish to become the Sultan of the Middle East, starting with resurrecting the Ottoman Empire? Then you have Turkey, being a champion for implementing Human Right actions, as Cyprus can no doubt explain.

            The Jordanians, now aren’t most of their leaders educated in the UK, have a stint at Sandhurst and heavily involved in the military industrial complex and have vested interests in demanding the resources of Syria?

            Then you have Israel and those involved in the Greater Israel Project, who have a problem with President Assad.

            All in all, he sounds like a thoroughly decent leader. You can always tell a good leader by his enemies.

          • Alberto Garza

            venezuela is a colony of cuba they are controlling the security apparatus and stealing their oil .

          • Tudor Miron

            That’s not even funny.

    • Ivanus59

      “He looks Native American” does he? I don’t see it. And the usurper coup “government” actually is heavily terrorizing the native population and all who don’t agree with their oligarchy.
      You saying that one of the fascist leaders “looks like he might be a native” doesn’t really count as any sort of an argument.

      • Chris Gr

        Fascism died in 1945.

        • Tudor Miron

          Supposed to die in 1945. Saying that it really died is nothing other than wishful thinking. Should I post examples of modern fascism thriving under quiet blessing of western “democracies”?

          • Chris Gr

            Russia also supports right-wing movements in Europe.

          • Tudor Miron

            Which exactly?

          • Chris Gr

            The ones in Britain, France, Austria, Serbia, Greece. That’s not bad in my opinion. It is very good.

          • Tudor Miron

            I didn’t ask where. I asked which exactly.

          • Chris Gr

            Le Pen, Farage, FPO in Austria and in Greece several small right-wing parties.

          • Alberto Garza

            right wing is not fascism .

          • Chris Gr

            Of course! It is conservatism.

          • AM Hants

            Do you even know what conservatism actually means?

            I guess you are ignorant of the fact that Adolf led the National Socialist (Worker’s) Party and the leader of the UK Fascist Party, at the time, was a member of the elite Socialist Fabian Society.

            Where does the Far Right end and the Far Left begin?

          • Chris Gr

            The founders of the Ba’ath party were also member of the Fabian Society. However, the British later supported the Muslim Brotherhood.

          • AM Hants

            Check out the Tavistock Institute, nurtured by the Fabian Society and also who are behind say Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis, Bolsheviks, Fascists, IRA. ISIS, Daesh, Al Qaeda, etc, etc, etc and the mind control programme.

            Operation Gladio, and how long had it been running, before it became known?

          • Chris Gr

            You are right on that one. Nazism was created by Ariosophists and communism by Sabbatean-Frankists. Modern social democracy is a Jesuit product while modern neoliberalism is a Freemasonic product. These sects are always clashing with each other.

          • AM Hants

            Yet, their ideology was exactly the same. Totalitarian control, by the state.

          • Chris Gr

            Social democracy and neoliberalism are not totalitarian.

          • AM Hants

            Compare the ideology of the fascists and the ideology of the communists, and apart from a difference of using class or race, they aim for exactly the same results. Totalitarian State Control, however, do believe it is now Totalitarian Globalist Control/NWO/Full Spectrum Domination.

          • Chris Gr

            Thesis/antithesis/synthesis

          • AM Hants
          • Chris Gr

            I agree. This also happens in Assad’s Syria and Maduro’s Venezuela and communist China.

          • אהרון

            Check out the SOVA Center and the Civil Society Development Foundation – each funded, in part, by the Russian Foreign Ministry and donations from wealthy Russian Oligarchs.

            Wasn’t the SOVA Center and the CSDF collecting demographic data in Crimea in 2013-14 just prior to Russia’s annexation of Crimea?

            Why does “Directorate S” so come to mind?

          • AM Hants

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a22f5706995b448f222110da2826cef6d66de99759c1eaf36ff2c64c39ab60d6.jpg

            Was going to ignore your comment, till I saw Crimea annexed by Russia.

            Guess you have never heard of self determination/will of the people.

            Crimea, used the argument, when they voted to go home to Russia in 1991 – they were ignored.
            1994 – Ukraine said no, so led to the independent autonomous Republic of Crimea.
            2014 – Again, over 80% of the electorate voted and over 93% to go home to Russia.

            US used self determination back on 4 July 1776, to gain independence from Great Britain.
            The end of WWI and the fall of the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires, they used self determination to decide who would join who.
            Falkland Islands Referendum – based on self determination.
            Scottish Referendum – based on self determination.
            BREXIT – based on self determination.
            Reunification of Germany, based on self determination, despite no votes being cast.
            Kosovo invasion – based on self determination.
            UN Charter – based on self determination.

            So why aren’t the people of Crimea, who never got a say, when the Ukrainian Krushchev, helped himself to Crimea and gave it to Ukraine, back in 1954, as a thank you for their support, in getting him elected to Leader of the Bolshevik Soviet Communist Party, allowed to use self determination?

          • אהרון

            When will you learn that your attempts to change the subject never actually changes the subject?

            ODIHR and HCNM report identifies widespread human rights violations, discrimination and legal irregularities in Crimea

            https://www.osce.org/odihr/182526

          • AM Hants

            LOL and did they actually turn up in Crimea, to create the report?

            Crimea is nothing to do with the OSCE, now is it, but, the three blind mice, are involved with Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights, are they not? Now, why does Soros invest so heavily in Human Rights Groups and didn’t he have a hissy fit that his violent coup d’état did not deliver Crimea?

            Even the UK Government, back in 1994, together with the US Government were telling Ukraine that if they did not invest and look after the people of Crimea, then they would lose Crimea to Russia.

          • אהרון

            When, AM? When will you learn that your attempts at changing the subject never actually changes the subject?

            UN report details grave human rights violations in Russian-occupied Crimea

            https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22140

          • AM Hants

            Sorry, but, who mentioned the OSCE Human rights group report, when the OSCE is nought to do with Crimea?

          • אהרון

            Always fascinating to see those of your ilk so quick to dismiss the OSCE. It has never failed to strike me as a desperate attempt to keep people from fully understanding or recalling events of the days leading up to Russia’s annexation of Crimea.

            World News
            March 12, 2014 / 11:57 AM
            OSCE team say Crimea roadblock gunmen threatened to shoot them

            Fredrik Dahl

            VIENNA (Reuters) – Armed men manning a roadblock in Crimea last week threatened to shoot at an unarmed OSCE observer team if it tried to enter the southern Ukrainian region now controlled by pro-Russian forces, a mission report said.

            The report, obtained by Reuters, gave new detail on how more than 40 military observers from about two dozen member states of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OCSE) were prevented from getting to Crimea. ‘Despite repeated attempts to enter the Crimean peninsula… (the monitors were) consistently refused access at gunpoint and therefore were not able to
            dispel concerns over the reported unusual Russian Federation military activity
            ,’”

          • AM Hants

            Three blind mice. Three blind mice.
            See how they run. See how they run.
            They all ran after the farmer’s wife
            Who cut off their tails with a carving knife
            Did you ever see such a sight in your life
            As three blind mice?

            You have reminded me of John Christensen, the Swedish Mercenary, posing as an a member of the OSCE, when he was taken hostage, back in 2014. I do believe he was loitering around Donetsk, at the time.

          • אהרון

            Creepy of you to go on this way about the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe.

          • Otto310

            Why creepy?…..What are you on about now?…Creepy?…LMAO!!

            I´ll tell you what is creepy….Creepy is when those that run the lunatic asylum you currently reside in, allow you to have an internet connection.

          • אהרון

            While you oddly sing children’s songs RIAFAN.ru (Russian news agency), part of the Internet Research Agency, is falsely reporting (in Russian) that American politicians and officials are calling for violence against Hong Kong police and government officials. [FALSE]

          • AM Hants

            Gosh, a Russian news agency, actually using the Russian language to report in.

            By the way, what are the Ukrainian nazis doing over in Hong Kong? Must admit, molotov cocktails and setting people on fire, with opposite points of view, did remind me of the Ukraine NAZI script, then low and behold, we find out they are out with their NED and Open Society mates, protesting, over in Hong Kong. Chinese version of the Maidan, but, what happened to the cookie monsters?

            Cannot find the post I wished to link, but, have posted it before.

            Chinese Ambassador Derided Ukrainian Instructors at Hong Kong Protests… https://www.stalkerzone.org/chinese-ambassador-derided-ukrainian-instructors-at-hong-kong-protests/

            …………………

            Still no doubt, whether Hong Kong or Ukraine, this crowd will be kept sweet.

            Which American Top Officials Are Involved in Pillaging Ukraine: New Names and Outrageous Sums… https://www.stalkerzone.org/which-american-top-officials-are-involved-in-pillaging-ukraine-new-names-and-outrageous-sums/

          • אהרון

            You read from stalkerzone regurgitate a RIA Novosti “news” article which, as it turns out, is completely [False].

            There is zero evidence of “Ukrainians” involved in protests in Hong Kong. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH and end your habit of being led about my the nose.

          • AM Hants

            Really? Love the articles that Stalker Zone provide. Found the article I was looking for and it was over on Sputnik, not the Stalker Zone.

            Why Are Ukrainian Neo-Nazis Joining the Hong Kong Protests?…

            ‘…“Hong Kong welcomed us as relatives,” Serhii Filimonov wrote on Facebook Saturday, sharing a video of himself and other Ukrainian far-right figures in the semi-autonomous Chinese city. Filimonov once headed the Kiev branch of the Azov Civilian Corps, a support group for the ultra-nationalist Azov Battalion that’s thinly veiled as a civilian NGO…’

            https://sputniknews.com/asia/201912021077466396-why-are-ukrainian-neo-nazis-joining-the-hong-kong-protests/

          • אהרון

            Good grief. More Stalker zone and Sputnik. Hardly what you would call bipartisan sources.

            Serhii Filimonov was invited by Hong Kong protesters to show his support for their cause. Filomonov did just that in the full light of day, unlike Russia’s Internet Research Agency falsely claiming that U.S. politicians and officials are calling for violence in Hong Kong.

            You constant attempts at changing the subject never actually changes the subject.

          • AM Hants

            Have another 25 years to wait till they release the classified papers on MH17 and Ukraine, plus, another 30 years for classified info on U long Kong protests. Till then will entertain myself with Stalker Zone. So love the site.

          • אהרון

            Classified papers. You get creepier by the post.

            Is Stalker Zone where you were mislead on Mark Zuckerberg’s Grandparent being Rockefellers?

            Do your own research. Kempner and Zuckerberg.

          • Otto310

            You´re doing well.
            It seems you´re giving…. aron/russie/arsehole….. the creeps.

            Proof enough the truth frightens the creep.

          • AM Hants

            Lol, never thought of it like that. Only taken 5 years. Guess I must try harder. Haha.

          • Otto310

            I made it feel sick once. :-)

          • AM Hants

            Shame, just the once haha.

          • Otto310

            Working on it….I am working on it.
            I ain´t finished with the troll….Or the other one….Its boyfriend……”bruno”.

            Y´know it´s quite funny, but an example of the lack of brain capacity of a certain “bruno giordano” or in other words the banned dutch government troll…”govert”…..
            It….the dutch government troll has chosen to name itself after a man who became famous for going against main stream thinking, and was executed for being a heretic.
            The real Mr Giordano would be turning in his grave if he knew someone/something like this shill has chosen his name for its avatar to attempt to push what is fascistic establishment thinking onto free thinkers.
            Is it a retard?

          • AM Hants

            With regards Bruno, I just automatically think of the mouse in Roald Dhal, The Witches, whenever I hear the name. Doubt the Bruno below, would mind having part of his name as Govert’s avatar haha.

            The Witches (5/10) Movie CLIP – Hello Little Bruno (1990) HD
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtf8uPmgq0A

          • Otto310

            I always thought of “bruno” as more as Sacha Baron Cohen´s Bruno the poof character.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAnBes__11Y

            But I do see your point. :-)

          • AM Hants

            Hilarious and OMG, that image is going to stick with me, whenever I come across his articles. Gives a whole new meaning to the JIT sessions, with regards the MH17.

          • Bruno Giordano

            Hilarious indeed… for little children… Pathetic.

            What Michael Bociurkiw writes these days: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/17/opinions/malaysia-airline-ukraine-crash-russia-bociurkiw/index.html

          • Otto310

            As that is the case, will he called as a witness to describe what he saw when he was one of the first on the scene in this up and coming Kangaroo cour…….whoops ….court case?

          • Otto310

            Well that makes his original statements……..(Let me repeat them, I think you need a reminder)…..that much more compelling……..”There looked to be two or three panels of the plane that looked as if it had been hit by machine gunfire…..Very very strong machine gunfire”……He then goes onto say ……”That left these unique marks”…..(Definition of Unique)…..”Being the only one of its kind”, but better still and in the context of MH17 and the marks left by the cannon fire?…….”Unlike anything else”.

            Think about that banderite….”Unlike anything else”.

            He then goes onto to say……”We´d been asked if we had seen any example of missile”……The answer he gave was…..NO.

            Your point above about who he writes for now…..Screws your argument.

            I always did say….banderite….You are not very bright. :-(

          • PaulMacc

            You cannot honestly believe the speculation of a single civilian pilot/crash investigator holds more evidentiary gravity than two sets of Radars conclusively proving that Malaysia Flight 17 was alone in the skies but for two additional civilian aircraft.
            It seems to me you’re a couple of years behind the times, Otto310. Any machine gun damage must have come after the fact and on the ground.

          • Otto310

            What “two sets of radars” are you referring to?
            Can you also say if a buk missile was seen on the radar?
            Then we can move on and discuss the reasons why there were no planes seen on the “two sets of radars”.

            Your last paragraph is of great interest…..Read it carefully……Then tell me where the “investigators” mentioned in their report/reports there was machine gun damage to the plane….And if they did, how they came to the conclusion of when and how the bullet hole damage was done.

          • PaulMacc

            I don’t understand your reply. There is the Radars data from Ukraine and from Russia. I had assumed that anyone following these events understood that.

            There were no planes? Investigators reports on bullet holes?

          • Otto310

            LMAO!!……In reference to your first paragraph your first paragraph.
            Ukraine did not supply any radar data of any value..Remember?…The Ukrainian´s said it wasn´t working….=…you lied.
            Unless you wish to support your claim with a link saying otherwise.

            Yes the Russian´s supplied radar data……Which proved no “BUK” missile was fired from where the Dutch “investigators” said the missile was fired from…..That radar data showed no “BUK” missile….I suggest you listen carefully to what the Russian´s said during their presentation of the radar data they supplied….And btw… the Dutch are not interested in the data they did supply….You make no mention of the other Russian radar data supplied…from their military radar which showed jet fighters in the vicinity of MH17…..And yes there is radar data from Ukrainian atc……Which was confiscated, and never heard of again, a bit like the Ukrainian atc´s….I wonder why?

            C´mon russie russie, answer these two glaring discrepancies, then we can move on as to why it was perfectly possible the fighter jets were not seen on the Russian radar data.

            Your two questions…Are you asking or telling?

            Anyway, lets go back to your first reply. You wrote above the…..Let me go back and have a look…..This is what you wrote…I quote..

            “It seems to me you’re a couple of years behind the times, Otto310. Any machine gun damage must have come after the fact and on the ground”.

            It seems you agree there was indeed machine gun damage….Well done, that is a good start…..I agree fully….
            Who would have thought we would have come to an agreement….You write the machine gun damage must have happened after the crash…..Well I suppose it now depends on whose machine gun made that damage.
            Why do you “think” the machine gun damage was not mentioned in the “investigators” reports?

          • Bruno Giordano

            Just this sentence in Sputnik news is enough: Both the JIT and Russia agree that the aircraft was downed by a Buk missile. Moscow, however, insists…. Of course they want it to be Ukraine’s BUK, but the fact is, they only speak of a BUK now. “Otto310” is indeed years behind the times.

            https://sputniknews.com/world/201909271076907098-jit-trying-to-match-mh17-crash-probe-with-answer-prepared-beforehand—source/?utm_source=https://t.co/oHDN5IqwRU&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=9SRA&utm_campaign=URL_shortening

            It is also worth mentioning that they finally admit that the “satellite photo” of the alledged attack by a fighter jet was fake.

            https://112.international/conflict-in-eastern-ukraine/russian-tv-channel-admits-it-was-wrong-to-blame-ukrainian-fighter-jet-with-downing-flight-mh17-46427.html

          • Otto310

            “paul mac”….=….”russ russell”…banned from RI….I played a big part in getting “paul mac” banned. :-)
            You know that banderite.
            I just wanted to see how far it was going to going to go….Not very by the looks of it.
            Funny it “thinks” the bullet holes were made during the time after it crashed.
            Maybe you can point out where the bullet hole damage was mentioned in any of the reports by the “investigators”.
            At least pauly above agrees there are bullet holes…..:-)

            Let me repeat his words…..Mr Bociurkiw…….”Two or three panels of the plane looked as though they had been hit by machine gun fire…..Very very strong machine gunfire, that left these …UNIQUE marks”……He was then asked if he saw any signs of missile….He said…NO.

          • PaulMacc

            What the hell is this? I’ve never been banned from a Web site in my life.

          • Otto310

            Yes you have…From Russia Insider.
            Several times. :-)

          • PaulMacc

            I took the time to glance through your participation with others throughout this thread and have determined that I have no choice but to test your grip on reality.
            How many individuals who’ve seen the MH17 wreckage personally believed they may have seen damage caused by bullets?

          • Otto310

            I´m pleased you have taken the time “to glance through my interactions with others”……It is a shame I can´t do likewise and “take the time to glance through your interactions with others”……For some reason being, you feel the need to keep your profile private….Which begs the question…What are you hiding?….Or indeed ashamed of?
            Are you embarrassed by your comments history?….Or just a coward?

            Your question is what one would expect from someone that has little or no grip on reality….The answer is….who the bloody hell knows?……However, this man who was one of the first to arrive at the crash site seems pretty sure he “observed machine gun damage”,….Very very strong machine gun damage….That apparently left these unique marks……. and not seen any sign of missile……..I´ll post the clip. I don´t think you have seen it. :-)
            Well worth watching..
            Oh…I won´t bother asking
            How many individuals who’ve personally seen the MH17 wreckage believed they may have observed BUK missile damage?
            The question is too stupid for words.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms3iDoiWqy4

            Btw…I don´t see what anything you have written above has to do with you being banned….(several times I might add)….. from Russia Insider.

          • PaulMacc

            Who the bloody hell knows?
            Just as I suspected. You’re not here seriously discussing this matter.

          • Otto310

            What you suspect is neither here nor there…..As far as I´m aware there hasn´t been any research carried out on the subject of “How many individuals who’ve personally seen the MH17 wreckage believed they may have observed machine gun damage”.
            That makes your question a stupid one…….My answer was quite clear…How I phrase it is irrelevant.
            However russie russie……We do have this gentleman who could not quite believe what he saw. As what he saw would involve the destruction of a civilian airliner not by accident, but planned for political gain.
            That would make the destruction of MH17 one of barbarity of the highest order.

            Listen to his words very carefully.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms3iDoiWqy4

            Then of course there have been many witnesses having seen fighter jets in the area where MH17 was flying….Yet there are none that saw a buk missile, unless you know different, in which case….Show it.

            Btw…I don´t see what anything you have written above has to do with you being banned….(several times I might add)….. from Russia Insider.

            Just out of interest….Why do you “think” out of the several people….(if I may call “them” that)……who have shown their disapproval to my replies, but at the same time, have not given you any upvotes for yours?……:-)
            I know logic is not one of your strong points, but using mine….(logic)……It would make sense that if my replies to you are a bit rubbish, that would make your replies pretty good, in which case I would expect you to have at least three or four or even more upvotes….Yet you have none, or just occasionally the one from a multi username DISQUS account holder going by the name of “bruno giordano”.

          • Bruno Giordano

            The idiot keeps coming back with the OSCE monitor’s interview., so let’s repeat here what Mr Bociurkiw’s expertise really is

            https://www.michaelbociurkiw.com/

            I am available to speak on global affairs, diplomacy, disasters, humanitarian issues, migration, technology and the Ukraine crisis/Black Sea region politics.

            Not to speak on “machine gun fire or bullet holes” LOL

            https://www.huffpost.com/author/michael-bociurkiw?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLm5sLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF5eC6X9YNu2ZdOUv5xa8Ogz59fOpc8ZFg1epVmo27iviuVF__BjyorRSAjwpb5P3ctjokDqkdomv2VA60hR4H7-kxDmU1u7Bkda2GLRotAFIbJVmh0mHTQqzT-D2Bmq_YdKgb5Rgv2REu3RASv9CGLK_fk9qOviyPf4hd8JSe4w

            Michael Bociurkiw TEDX speaker, writer, journalist, aid worker. Canadian writer Michael Bociurkiw has worked as a journalist in Canada, the US and Asia. He’s also served for more than a decade as a staff member and consultant for UN agencies on five continents. A social media expert and digital influencer, he is about to publish his first non-fiction book.His passions are: helping others, travel, food, wine, networking and cycling…oh – and all things Ukrainian (his heritage).

            Not the profile of a “specialist” that can perform an analysis of the cause of the damage on pieces of a wreckage at a crash site….

            A social media expert! What was that criticism again from certain people against for instance Bellingcat?

            And what he writes these days…

            https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/opinions/malaysia-airline-ukraine-crash-russia-bociurkiw/index.html

            Thanks to the diligence of the Dutch-led investigation team, and the sheer gumshoe work of such outlets as Bellingcat, we now know beyond a doubt that much heavier and sophisticated weaponry had been secretly snuck into the war zone from Russia — including the BUK missile, originating from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, that brought down MH17 on that summer’s day.

            As the idiot also likes to refer to Mr Mahathir’s criticism, it is also good to repeat what Mr Mahathir really has said (on the Malaysian PM’s own website)

            https://www.pmo.gov.my/2019/05/malaysia-wants-evidence-to-show-russia-shot-down-mh17/

            Dr Mahathir said while the government agreed that the plane was brought down by a Russian missile, it cannot be certain that the missile was launched by Russia.

            .

            That is fully in line with what the Russian Government currently says:

            “Both the JIT and Russia agree that the aircraft was downed by a Buk missile.” (source: Sputnik news).

          • PaulMacc

            we now know beyond a doubt that much heavier and sophisticated weaponry had been secretly snuck into the war zone from Russia — including the BUK missile, originating from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, that brought down MH17 on that summer’s day.” — Michael Bociurkiw
            Mr. Bociurkiw obliterates Otto310’s entire argument. That fool is not here to seriously discuss these matters. Pure trolling!

          • Otto310

            It seems we have made some progress banderite…..You, me, Mr Bociurkiw, and “mr paul mac have at last come to an agreement……. There are bullet holes in the MH17 fuselage. Well done banderite. :-)

            You even gave your girlfriend an up vote… :-)

          • Otto310
          • PaulMacc

            Thank you, Bruno. You’re right about Sputnik News. I personally know of no one seriously discussing anything but who’s SAM missile brought down Malaysian Flight MH17.
            It seems to me the faked satellite photo and Russia’s initial faked Radars presentation speaks in volumes regarding Russia’s motives.

          • Bruno Giordano

            Yes, I feel almost sorry for all these fighter jet theory believers, including this Otto kid that gives me the impression that he is desperate. Abused as the Kremlin’s useful idiots. Mmm “almost” as in the words of a former OSCE monitor – LOL.

          • PaulMacc

            On day one I believed there was at least one, perhaps two, fighter jets involved as those who took credit for downing Malaysian MH17 reportedly also bringing down at least one fighter jet as well. The fact that no second or third crash site was located, coupled with having no radars data displaying fighter aircraft in the vicinity, quickly dispelled the idea.
            Frankly speaking, I don’t know what to make of Otto310. He/she strikes me as not serious about discussing this matter.

          • Otto310

            Well no banderite, I am fully up to date with events…..it seems you are behind, along with your girl friend the multi username trannie.
            I´ll tell you why……The Malaysian Prime Minister does not accept the jit´s findings.
            This is an inconvenient fact you find uncomfortable to discuss.
            It has also been proven the tape recordings supplied by Ukraine supposedly of “rebels” discussing matters to do with MH17 have been proven to be fake.

            It has also been established there has been no forensic study by carried out on the wreckage……That would indicate, neither the jit or the Russian´s can agree on anything…..Tell me there has been a forensic study analysis of the wreckage to establish what caused the plane to crash….Btw…The Russian´s have never been allowed to examine the wreckage…..So tell me how they come to any conclusions?
            It has also been established the buk missile as shown during the jit presentation belongs to Ukraine….The serial numbers on the buk missile prove this, as does the documentation for the buk showing it was transported to Ukraine back during the 1980´s.

            This is quite interesting banderite…Something I came across quite recently…Listen to what he says…..I think he is one of the criminals involved in the “investigation”…Also watch his body language and listen to the tone of his voice and the words he uses……He is obviously lying.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox7RXOfBDQk

            So…Do the Ukrainian´s have any useful radar data or don´t they…And if they do, why did they say their radar was not working?
            It seems the dutch war criminal liars are making it up as they go along.

            Btw…There are lots of witnesses who saw fighter jets in the vicinity of Mh17, yet not one person has come forward to say the saw a buk missile.
            These are not stealthy weapons banderite….Anyone standing within a ten mile radius would have seen the vapour trail from the point of take off and into the sky. Yet mysteriously no did.

            You know what that means banderite….Have a look.

            https://cdn.newspunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/BubEgTAIIAElOX1-600×381.jpg.optimal.jpg

          • Bruno Giordano

            https://www.michaelbociurkiw.com/

            I am available to speak on global affairs, diplomacy, disasters,
            humanitarian issues, migration, technology and the Ukraine crisis/Black
            Sea region politics.

            Not on “machine gun fire” LOL

            https://www.huffpost.com/author/michael-bociurkiw?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLm5sLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF5eC6X9YNu2ZdOUv5xa8Ogz59fOpc8ZFg1epVmo27iviuVF__BjyorRSAjwpb5P3ctjokDqkdomv2VA60hR4H7-kxDmU1u7Bkda2GLRotAFIbJVmh0mHTQqzT-D2Bmq_YdKgb5Rgv2REu3RASv9CGLK_fk9qOviyPf4hd8JSe4w

            Michael Bociurkiw TEDX speaker, writer, journalist, aid worker Canadian writer Michael Bociurkiw has worked as a journalist in Canada, the US and Asia. He’s also served for more than a decade as a staff member and consultant for UN agencies on five continents. A social media expert and digital influencer, he is about to publish his first non-fiction book.His passions are: helping others, travel, food, wine, networking and cycling…oh – and all things Ukrainian (his heritage).

            Not the profile of a “specialist” that can perform an analysis of the cause of the visible damage at a crash site….

          • Отто дезинформационный агент

            https://www.michaelbociurkiw.com/bio-1
            https://www.ucpbacalgary.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/MICHAEL-BOCIURKIW-bio.pdf

            “Finally, my academic credentials: I’ve studied mass communications,international politics and TV News at Carleton University, Columbia University and George Washington University”.

            Expertise not air crash investigation. Expertise not weapon systems investigation. Expertise is journalism. Man said “almost look like”.

          • Otto310

            The jit has no meaning, when the only member of the jit that has no axe to grind concerning MH17 …The Malaysian´s ……do not trust or rate what has been offered up so far as “evidence” by the Dutch and the Ukrainian´s.

            This “bruno”/govert poof character who sullies the name of a great man…., would have fully supported the execution of THE Mr Bruno Giordano for going against establishment thinking.
            I have asked this establishment lackey to explain what its logic is for picking the name of a heretic……But it can´t.
            It uses the name as a lie, or it is a retard who has no real understanding of what the name represents…My suspicion is probably both of these.

          • AM Hants

            Your image, just nailed it for me and thankfully has cured me from replying to the troll. Just visualise the image and too busy laughing to notice the comment, let alone reply to it.

          • Otto310

            It is funny…..The look on Eminem´s face as he walks out of the theatre in abject disgust. :-)

            I see the little “bruno” poof appreciates my humour….It has shown its approval by giving me four down votes….Do you know?….It has been a busy little troll along with its girl friend using their multi DISQUS accounts……to down vote every comment I have made going back several months. :-)
            It seems they do have a sense of humour of sorts.

            I think this gives us a good idea of the inner character of these two thoroughly dishonest low level establishment lackies.

            I am pleased the image has a therapeutic effect. :-)

          • AM Hants

            You only got one down vote for this comment, so far. If it is any consolation, the same foursome (or is it just one with a ‘multi personality’ disorder have been doing the same to mois). Don’t know about you, but, don’t you find it disheartening to find out you are having to compete for downvotes haha?

          • Otto310

            Disheartened competing for down votes?
            No…My down votes beats yours by a mile.
            I just took the liberty of taking a peak at your profile to see your down votes…Oh sure you got one here and one there….On the other hand I got many down votes on every comment and reply I have made going back at least five months. Yet DISQUS has allowed the down vote function to work for only the last two months.
            Yes siree, “bruno giordano” has been very busy indeed.
            No AM…No competition at all….I win hands down. :-)

          • AM Hants

            Haha, I never check out my up or down votes. Although, somebody mentioned the foursome a couple of weeks ago. I then noticed you were also receiving them. No doubt when they have finished with you and no doubt Mike, I wonder how long it will take for them to work through others. Can you imagine spending you day having to check the comment history of others?

          • Otto310

            At least it keeps them off the streets.

            Have a good night. :-)

          • AM Hants

            Ditto.

          • Bruno Giordano

            As with KAL007?
            Nah… March 9th next year, hants.

          • AM Hants

            So they are releasing their classified papers, that include absolutely everything, for the hearing? Or the Disney version, and on time, believing they can get away with it all?

          • Bruno Giordano
          • AM Hants

            Guardian hahaha – have not even opened your link, courtesy the likes of ‘Integrity Initiative’ members, working as propaganda agents for the old rag. How the founders of the Manchester Guardian must be confused, with regards where there efforts have ended up, thanks to the likes of Luke Harding. Remember, when it was formed, following the ‘Peterloo Massacre’? UKs version of ‘The Maidan’, back in the early 19th century. There again, is the Guardian staying close to it’s roots. as ‘false flags’ and the media so comes to mind, even back in the 19th century.

            Court MH17, again I have not opened the link, owing to the fact, until they actually go to court, using substantial and fact related evidence, then why should I be interested?

            Will all the questions be answered to the satisfaction of the loved ones, friends and families of all those who perished on the MH17? Or will it be like the Coroner led trial on Litvenenko? Remember, in the UK Law Courts a coroner changed legislation, when he used the word ‘Probably’ for the conclusion. Yet, when did we change the rule of law, over in the UK?

            ‘Innocent until proved guilty, beyond all doubt and probably, is never part of the summing up.

            The Late Timothy Bell – special adviser to Margaret Thatcher, made a life time peer by Common Purpose Member (who are heavily linked to the Integrity Initiative/Statecraft/Open Policy Information. Why are Alan Duncan, Bill Browder and Anne Applebaum, members of Integrity Initiative and running the Russia Disinformation Programme, over in the UK? Sorry, as I return to the Late Hampstead Heath Flasher, Timothy Bell, the Special Adviser to Maggie Thatcher, Boris Yeltsin, Boris Berezovsky, PR Management adviser to the Russian ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko. Timothy Bell, who was seconded to the National Coal Board to advise on media strategy at the start of the miners’ strike. He worked on media relations and helped set the terms of the negotiations and course of government policy. Funny, how he helpted advise Maggie to close down the UK coal mines and start importing coal from Poland, around the time of the Miner’s Strike. The same late Timothy Bell, who was handed $500,000 from the Pentagon to spin the Iraq War, via his firm Bell Pottinger. He then went on to found the ‘Libya to Europe Cruises for Jihadists’, via his Sans Frontieres organisation. Now why does he remind me of an Elliot Higgings character? The former post boy, of some media outlet, who ends up controlling the spin behind the Iraq War. Elliot, the redundant Housing Officer, who took a Google software course and the deranged believe he is ‘the second coming’, where journalists are concerned.

            Then you have Brother David Bell, and advertising executive with so many links to Cambridge University. Now why does Cambridge University and the 60s so come to mind? Whatever happened to those old ‘Soviet Spies’ and where are they now? Brother David, who set up ‘Common Purpose’, and why are so many UK politicians members of Common ‘Make Israel Great Again’ Purpose, including John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Theresa May, etc, etc, etc?

            Why are they all linked into Kosovo – Iraq – Ukraine – MH17 – Russia Gate – Skripals, etc, etc, etc and why does Common Purpose run the UK Legal System?

            So with regards 9 May 2020, will the ‘Sentence First, Verdict Comes Later’, Lewis Carrol Themed court trial, rely on ‘Probably’ for it’s conclusion into the MH17? Based on lack of substantiated evidence, that has been denied a showing in the Court of Law?

          • Bruno Giordano

            Blah blah blah.

            March 9th, next year, hants.10:00 AM

          • AM Hants

            Yeah, just like the promised coroner’s inquest into the death of Dawn Sturgess, that keeps being moved forward. How long has she now been dead and when will she get her coroner’s inquest?

            Remember, the woman with a chronic drug habit and related health problems, who came across a bottle of Eau De Novochok, a few years ago. She is still waiting for the coroner’s inquest into her death. Now why would a toxicology report take so long to be produced?

          • Otto310

            LMAO!!!
            What is the evidence?
            Not even the Malaysian´s believe the Dutch and Ukrainian bullshit masquerading as “evidence”.

            Do you “think” this man will be called as a witness?
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms3iDoiWqy4

            Will the ukrainian atc´s be called as witnesses?…..No they won´t.

          • אהרון

            We see that, not only is AM desperate to continually change the subject, she outlines in some detail why and how no amount of evidence will change her tactics in as much as her blatant dishonestly is concerned. In short AM argues that Russia and Russian-backed rebels must not be found culpable in any manner, in any event, world wide.

            Now missing: I see the Kremlin is now refusing to hand over MH-17 suspect, Ukrainian national Volodymyr Tsemakh, to Dutch prosecutors. The Kremlin claims they know not where Tsemakh is today.

            As a Ukrainian national it’s never made sense that Tsemakh was part of a prisoner swap to Russia to begin with.

          • Bruno Giordano

            They (the Kremlin) have done/do everything they can to obstruct and frustrate the investigations. “Tsemakh” fits in that pattern. It is “strange” indeed that he was part of the prisoner swap, which was a shame anyway. In fact those illegally detained Ukrainian sailors were kept as hostages. According to the European Convention on Extradition of the European Council, to which Russia is a full member, they should have arrested Tsemakh when he landed in Moscow and extradited him.

            https://www.dw.com/en/russia-let-mh17-suspect-flee-dutch-prosecutors-allege/a-51507750
            https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/12/03/russia-refused-dutch-request-to-hand-over-mh17-suspect-investigation-says-a68443
            https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_ukraine_prisoner_swap_hope_or_desperation

          • אהרון
          • Otto310

            Will they call on the ukrop atc´s to verify why they ordered MH17 to not only veer out of the designated flight corridor, but also to ascertain the reason they ordered MH17 to lower its altitude……And while they have their “court case”, will they bring this gentleman as a witness.?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms3iDoiWqy4

            Let me remind you of what he said……”Some panels of the plane looked as though they´d been hit by machine gun fire….Very very strong machine gun fire”.
            He also said there was “no sign of a missile”……Tell me banderite, why do you “think there was no forensic examination of MH17 to ascertain what wepon was actually used to bring MH17 down?

          • Otto310

            They support the violence……That is the american way….violence. :-(

          • AM Hants

            Funnily enough, thinking of the Sputnik article, aren’t the Ukraine Nazis against the people of Crimea voting to return home to Russia, using self determination?

            So how come they desire the people of Hong Kong to use self determination, to free themselves from their autonomous relationship with China?

          • Otto310

            Good point.

          • Otto310

            What are Ukrainian nazis doing in Hong Kong?

            https://insomniacresurrected.com/category/hong-kong-ukraine-connection/

            As those nazis were organised by the yanks in Ukraine, there is no reason to think the ones who travelled to Hong Kong haven´t been organised by the yanks…..You see “aron”, this is the problem faced by yanks……You….yankees…have form for using these unsavoury groups for doing your dirty bidding….Twat.

          • Otto310

            “False”?….Idiot….Not false at all.
            They are on public record as being in full support of the protests.
            Can you show anywhere “American politicians and officials” are calling for the “protesters” to be a little more retrained and to stop using molotov cocktails to make their point?
            I know you are far too cowardly to answer, so I will answer for you.
            No…These “American politicians and officials” have not done that at all.
            In fact the so called leaders of the protests not to mention Ukrainian nazis have been encouraged….Have you not seen the US and British flags being flown……In the name of democracy?…..Well fool…Do you know under British colonial rule, there was no democracy of any sort in Hong Kong during that period of history. Bozo.

          • Otto310

            For starters …”aron”……To have guards at a border is not at all unusual….Especially when your neighbour is a nazi state…..You know aron, I once ….By accident I might add…..crossed the Canadian/US border without without going through the proper checks of showing ID´s….Do you know what, A yankee border guard pointed a gun at me for doing so?.
            What is it about Canada the yanks are so concerned with?

            Btw….The OSCE does not have an automatic right to enter Russian Crimea.
            Maybe next time they might want to go through the proper channels, and themselves a visa or whatever.

            While we are on the subject of the OSCE…Have a listen to this guy,…

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms3iDoiWqy4

            He was one of the first to visit the crash site of MH17……Do you know what he said …”aron”…..He said there are some panels of the plane that looked as though they have been hit by MACHINE GUN FIRE…….Very very STRONG MACHINE GUN FIRE…….´During the interview, he was asked if he´d seen any sign of a missile having caused the crash……Do you know what….”aron”……He did not say…..”well it could be”…..He did not say……”I reallly don´t know”….He did not say…..”We found some bits of missile shrapnel”…No no no….He unequivocally said ….No, we did not see any signs of missile.

            I think after that interview, he was removed from his post as the OSCE spokesman.
            I wonder why?

          • Otto310

            The UN is a US puppet.
            It will say whatever the US will want them to say.
            You do realise if they don´t, those that work in the UN will be bumped off.
            Btw aron, can you say if the UN has ever condemned the US for its mass murder of Iraqi citizens?, and its wars of aggression??…Or indeed its hunger for regime change?….Which as you may be aware, is highly illegal.
            Until they do…..Do shut up aron, and don´t try to use a discredited organisation such as the UN to make a point.
            Many thanks for your co-operation.

          • Ralph London

            Same with the osce.

          • Otto310

            Indeed.
            Thank you for reminding me.

          • Ralph London

            WHEn will YOU learn, boy, to concentrate on the SERIOUS crimes the usg has committed???

          • Ralph London

            What about the widespread human rights violations at Gitmo and other secret YANK prisons around the world, dumbfuck boy?

            What about the widespread human rights violations around the world by the yanks and their ‘color revolutions’ and lies, boy?

            What about the widespread human rights violationsin Iraq and Afgnahistan to name just 2 countries, namely the deaths and suffering inflicted upon the INNOCENT people there, boy?

            As usual, your focus is so fucked up in the wrong direction, boy.

          • Ralph London

            What’s that annexation BS you’re pushing, boy? Crimeans VOTED to re-join Russia. Not surprising, considering the hatred and madness of the fucked in the head SHITS in ukraine, who would have loved to murder them, is it?

            Also, WTF was the usg doing in getting involved in ukraine, stirring up SHIT, boy? The usa wanted Russia out of Crimea so that they could get in.

            Why are you also so fucked in the head that you simply don’t – or don’t want to – understand the strategic importance of Crimea to Russia?

          • אהרון

            Crimea is of great strategic importance to Russia? Oh my. I wish I had understood that prior to 2 minutes ago!

            You’re my new hero. LMAO………

          • Tudor Miron

            And what is the connection between Marie Le Pen and fascism? Some call it right wing but truth is that she’s simply trying to preserve France from becoming part of European Khalifat as planned by liberast gang.

          • Chris Gr

            Not fascist but right-wing. And the new government of Bolivia is right-wing not fascist. These people are not liberals but cultural marxists.

          • Tudor Miron

            Names and labels… You’re missing the actual sense and doings behind those names and labels.

          • Chris Gr

            What’s the difference between Anez and Le Pen?

          • Tudor Miron

            If you don’t see the difference yourself than there’s no point trying to explain it to you.

          • Chris Gr

            I see a difference. Le Pen never made a porn video. lol

          • Chris Gr

            Anez is also pro-American while Le Pen is anti-American. And I don’t see what’s evil with moderate liberalism.

          • AM Hants

            Le Pen is patriotic to France, a sovereign nation, where she was born and resides in. Why should she be loyal to a foreign nation, far, far away?

          • Chris Gr

            I agree with Le Pen.

          • AM Hants

            I agree with Farage and my politics are old fashioned Conservative, very in the centre, minimal Government involvement, low taxes and look after the genuine, in need, and not using the benefit system as a ‘lifestyle choice’.

          • Chris Gr

            I also agree with you.

          • AM Hants

            Cultural Marxists, who created the Nazi Party, known as the National Socialist (German) Worker’s Party and also the Communist Bolsheviks. Nought to do with Conservatism, more socialism.

            Where does the far right end and the far left begin?

          • Chris Gr

            Cultural marxists are far-left. Nazism is a syncretic movement from both far-right and far-left. Far-right is ultra-capitalism and radical monarchism.

          • AM Hants

            Where does one end and the other begin. Remember, the Nazis were also created by the Khazarian/AshkeNAZI nomadic Turkic tribes, who adopted Christianity, Islam and Judea whilst learning Hebrew? Nazi – National Socialist (German) Worker’s Party.

            As stated by Adolf Hitler:

            Hitler to Rauschning Adolf Hitler (Speech of May 1, 1927). Quoted by Toland, … THAT IS THE KERNEL OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM. In these straightforward statements of intent.

            “I have learned a great deal from Marxism, as I do not hesitate to admit. The difference between them and myself is that I have really put into practice what these peddlers and pen-pushers have timidly begun…. I had only to develop logically what Social Democracy repeatedly failed in because of its attempt to realize its evolution within the framework of democracy. National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with a democratic order.” Adolf Hitler

            “The party is all-embracing. It rules our lives in all their breadth and depth. We must therefore develop branches of the party in which the whole of individual life will be reflected. Each activity and each need of the individual will thereby be regulated by the party as the representative of the general good. There will be no license, no free space, in which the individual belongs to himself. This is Socialism–not such trifles as the private possession of the means of production.” Adolf Hitler

            “Of what importance is that if I range men firmly within a discipline they cannot escape? Let them then own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the party, is supreme over them, regardless whether they are owners or workers. All that, you see, is unessential. Our Socialism goes far deeper….”
            “Private property” as conceived under the liberalistic economic order was a reversal of the true concept of property. This “private property” represented the right of the individual to manage and to speculate with inherited or acquired property as he pleased, without regard for the nation.” Adolf Hitler

          • Chris Gr

            He took the nationalism from the right-wing. Syncretism.

          • AM Hants

            He has always stated, he wanted to take socialism to another level and those before him did not go far enough.

            Hence he was leader of the National Socialist (German) Worker’s Party and not the National Conservative (German) Worker’s Party.

          • Chris Gr

            Fascism is Third Position. Beyond the left and right.

          • AM Hants

            Oswald Mosely, who was a member of the elite Socialist Fabian Society, was also the UK Leader of the Fascist Party. Not the only member of the Fabian Society or Tavistock Institute, to swing both ways.

          • Chris Gr

            Aflaq was also a member of the Fabian Society.

          • Per Jensen

            Calling Marxist-leninist Bolsheviks nazists, in line with the right wing and Trotskyists?
            No, no, here jumps off your otherwise excellent prior analysis chain.

          • AM Hants

            Personal opinion, but, for me it goes back to the Fabian Society, set up in the 19th century and then moved on with the Tavistock Institute, back in 1913.

            1913 – Fed Reserve Act
            1913 – Tavistock Institute
            1917 – Fall of the Russian Empire
            1917 – Balfour Declaration
            1917 – IRA launched
            1919 – End of WWI, fall of Ottoman Empire and fall of Austro-Hungarian Empire
            1919 – Early revolutionary activity of Chinese revolutionary and politician Mao Zedong lasted for eight years, from 1919 to 1927
            1919 – Mussolini came to power, by forming the Fascist Party
            1920 – Hitler delivers the National Socialist (German) Worker’s Party
            1922 – 2nd congress of Communist Party took place in Shanghai

            WWI – League of Nations
            WWII – United Nations
            WWIII – NWO – Full Spectrum Domination.

            Same crowd played us back in the early 20th century and are still playing us now.

          • AM Hants

            When is being patriotic, and not nationalistic, classed as being far right?

            Many patriots, who follow Le Pen, Farage and the FPO in Austria and Greece, are just aligned to the centre of politics, with a love and respect for their nation. As I stated, patriotic, as opposed to nationalistic.

          • Chris Gr

            Agree 100%. Anez is just a right-wing Bolivian not a fascist. She is not Pinochet.

          • AM Hants

            She is just a puppet of the globalists.

          • Chris Gr

            Globalists only exists in Western Europe and the US. The rest of the world is pretty much patriotic.

          • AM Hants

            Till the NED, Soros Open Society Foundation, Blair Foundation, McCain Foundation, Clinton Foundation, etc, etc, etc, come rolling into town.

            How many colour revolutions, leading to regime change have the above been involved in?

          • Chris Gr

            I am against color revolutions. However, what happened in Bolivia has nothing to do with a colour revolution.

          • AM Hants

            Hahaha, if you insist. However, it has NED and Soros Open Society written all over it. Bolivia, who ridiculed the US in the UNSC and Bolivia who openly support Venezuela, who now have an NED trained, funded and supported temporary leader?

            Did love the Bolivian UN representative, who held up the photo of Colin Powell and the fake test tube, when he was pushing for war with Iraq. Now what was that based on, besides lies?

          • Chris Gr

            Soros supports left-wing movements but not left-wing nationalists.

          • AM Hants

            Soros supports anything that destroys a nation, any nation.

            Left wing/right wing nationalists, is there a nationalist that he does not support or use for his own desires? Is there any difference between the nationalists, whether they be from the right or from the left?

            ‘The next fascist will present themselves as the anti-fascists’ – Winston Churchill.

            Remind me, but, who funds Anti-fa and the Anti-fascists? Not forgetting BLM, Hong Kong Protesters, Bolivian Protesters, Ukraine Nazis, ISIS/Daesh/White Helmets/Al Qaeda, or whatever they are called today?

          • Chris Gr

            Hong Kong protests and Bolivian protests are much different. Ukraine is supported by Nazis, however, the Donetsk and the Lugansk republics have Stalinists in them.

          • אהרון

            Was This Banned Fake Antifa Twitter Account Actually Troll Tweeting From Russian Internet Research Agency?

            Blake Montgomery
            Last updated on September 28, 2017, at 3:03 p.m. ET

          • AM Hants

            A Brief History of the “Kremlin Trolls”… https://thesaker.is/a-brief-history-of-the-kremlin-trolls/

            13 trolls, 72p spent on Twitter, during 2016 US Presidential Campaign and around $4,000 on Facebook ads, before and after the 2016 US Presidential Campaign. Funny, didn’t Clinton spend $billions, trying to get into the White House. Yet, 13 Russian trolls and a spend of under $5,000 provided Russia with the result they wanted lol.

            Why is everything so expensive in the US, compared to Russia?

            US Defence Budget – $750 billion and rising.
            Russia Defence Budget – $47 billion and decreasing.

            How many $billions did Hilary spend on her Presidential Campaign?
            Russia spends under $5,000 and yet, the MSM believe they are the reason that Trump is in the White House haha.

          • אהרון

            Trash alt media such as The Saker isn’t nearly good enough, AM.

            Russia’s Internet Research Agency spending less than $5,000…LMAO

          • AM Hants

            What is even funnier is who were behind them and so not the Russian Government. However, the media believe Russia, at a cost of less than $5,000, managed to get Trump into the White House. No wonder it is called Fake Media.

          • אהרון

            The Internet Research Agency employs thousands of trolls, as opposed to the 13 you like to go on about.

            Strange, AM. Terribly strange.

          • AM Hants

            This crowd you mean? Remind me, but, who set them up and funded them? Clue, it was not the Russia Government.

            Mueller bombshell: 13 Russian ‘troll factory’ staffers charged with allegedly meddling in US presidential election
            Ruskies stole citizen IDs to spread discord – indictment… https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/16/mueller_russians_election_indictment/

          • אהרון

            You do enjoy being told by media organs what’s in a document or behind an event instead of going directly to the source. May I suggest again you take the time to do some authentic research using direct sources?
            https://regmedia.co.uk/2018/02/16/feb16dojindictment.pdf

            I’ll repeat myself for effect. The Internet Research Agency employs thousands of trolls, as opposed to the 13 in this singular indictment.

          • AM Hants

            13 – unlucky for some.

            However, who created the trolls over at the IRA? Nought to do with the Russian Government, now was it?

          • אהרון

            The Russian government’s Inter Research Agency has nothing to do with Russia?

            Weird, AM!

          • AM Hants

            Guess you never read the Saker article, which explained who was behind the Internet Research Agency and it was not the Russian Government. Closer to the old Clinton Foundation, I do believe.

          • AM Hants

            According to Mueller, it was just 13 that managed to alter the results of the US Presidential Campaign.

          • אהרון

            Actually you’re quite incorrect. At no point did Robert Mueller say or report that 13 individuals altered the Presidential elections. That’s just creepy of you to suggest.

            You now have the actual indictments. There’s no need for you to rely on your favored media organs to tell you what’s in the indictments or, for that matter, in the Mueller report.

          • AM Hants

            Learnt a new word have we or have you been following Grandpa Joe and learnt ‘creepy’?

            Mueller charges 13 Russians with interfering in US election to help Trump…
            ‘… Thirteen Russians have been criminally charged for interfering in the 2016 US election to help Donald Trump, the office of Robert Mueller, the special counsel, announced on Friday…including the notorious state-backed “troll farm” the Internet Research Agency, had been indicted by a federal grand jury in Washington DC…’ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/16/robert-mueller-russians-charged-election

          • אהרון

            At no point did Robert Mueller say or report that 13 individuals altered the Presidential elections. Full stop.

            Read the Guardian article again, read the actual indictments and study the Mueller report yourself. You’re becoming creepier at every turn, AM.

          • אהרון

            You read somewhere that less than $5,000 is involved. Now that’s funny!

          • AM Hants

            Read about it in several places. One of the hearings, where Facebook and Twitter had to take a stand. It seriously made me laugh, that according to the MSM, if you had under $5,000 and were connected to Russia, in any way, you could get a President of your choice in Washington DC, running the US?

            As President Putin said, ‘America is a great nation, not some banana republic. Correct me if I’m wrong’? The media certainly seems to think so.

            Putin: ‘America is a great nation, not some banana republic. Correct me if I’m wrong’… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhADIr179DM

          • אהרון

            While I have no doubt that you’ve read it in several obscure blogs and alt media corners of the internet. that you actually seem to be under the impression that anyone of notability has claimed that $5,000 from Russia chose the U.S. President is astoundingly creepy, AM. Creepy even for you.

            You’re having another “Hitler was a secret Rothschild” moment, yes?

          • AM Hants

            72p was spent on Twitter ads. Around $4,500 was spent on RT adverts – which comes to under $5,000. It was the MSM screaming that Russia put Trump into the White House. So it is not rocket science, if the MSM are correct, and Russia spent less than $5,000, using as Mueller stated, 13 trolls, it is not me having the Rothschild Moment, now is it?

            As President Putin said, is the US a banana republic? Yes or No, according to the MSM.

          • Ralph London

            Come on, AM, stop insulting bananas.

          • AM Hants

            Haha, Meghan Markle sent me a bunch, which she had been using for helping out the prostitutes, using inspirational words, I do believe. Never had advice from a banana before and no I am not on the game, just in case my words are taken the wrong way.

          • Ralph London

            Just as well you didn’t mention cucumbers.

          • AM Hants

            Haha, plus I left out the marrows. Will shut up now, before I get into trouble.

          • אהרון

            Again, that you actually seem to be under the impression that anyone of
            notability has claimed that $5,000 from Russia chose the U.S. President
            is astoundingly creepy!!!

          • Concrete Mike

            So it has nothing to do witha multi billion dollar lithium deal with china either then? With technologiy transfers for on site processing.
            Its not color revolution, your right, this is full spectrum dominance.

            This policy has to stop.

          • Chris Gr

            Morales failed that’s why.

        • Dušan Mirić
          • Chris Gr

            Soviet Union, the most genocidal state in history!

          • Dušan Mirić

            the usa surpasses ussr in number of people killed if you count post wwII era

          • Chris Gr

            The US is bad but not like Soviet Union.

          • Dušan Mirić

            yes, they are not killing people because of ideology but for profit. “nothing personal”

          • Chris Gr

            Profit is behind ideology.

          • Dušan Mirić

            Perhaps within some societies, some say it is about 16 percent of the world

          • Dušan Mirić

            They are even worse. They are doing it in disguise of fighting for freedom and other “democracy” crap. They are use to free people of everything thy own. Even of they lives After all, what native Bolivians (and other) knows what money (and power is). They “are all deplorable”. The US is “exceptional” (in other words “übermenschen”, Nazi

          • Chris Gr

            Native Bolivians are not all pro-Morales.

          • Dušan Mirić

            The point is that he got 10 per cent votes more. The end.

          • Dušan Mirić

            Everything else is re-imposing of colonial rule

          • Chris Gr

            Morales was a narcoterrorist.

          • Dušan Mirić

            That is not excuse for Nazi coup

          • Dušan Mirić

            …besides, you’re the only one who thinks that. You know that or you just hate Evo?

          • Dušan Mirić

            …through “proxies” and “collaborators”

          • Chris Gr

            Morales is a puppet of China.

          • Dušan Mirić

            So. you want to justify killings of his voters!?

          • Chris Gr

            Of course not.

          • AM Hants

            Who created it?

            Remember, the Bolsheviks overthrew the Russian Empire, back in 1917, led by Lenin. Laying the foundations of the Soviet Union. A couple of years later, the end of WWI and the fall of the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires. Then Stalin, took over from Lenin and officially launched the Soviet Union. It fell in 1991 and 15 independent nations emerged.

            So who created the most genocidal state in history? Personally, I thought the US took that title, along with their NATO buddies. The US, who have only had 19 years peace in total, since gaining independence from Great Britain. How many have been killed in US/NATO led invasions, since NATO was created 70 years ago?

          • Chris Gr

            The Soviet Union was created by atheist Askhenazi “Jews”.

          • AM Hants

            Who are behind what is happening in the world right now, including over in Bolivia.

          • Chris Gr

            A lot of factors.

          • AM Hants
        • AM Hants

          Tell that to the fascist anti-fascists.

  • J Roderet

    Camacho carries a Bible in one hand and a Mossad agent ID card in the other.

    • Chris Gr

      Putin has excellent relations with Netanyahu.

      • AM Hants

        President Putin is not Netanyahu’s puppet, and has political relationships with most leaders of sovereign nations, owing to his belief in communication and using diplomacy to sort out problems.

        • Chris Gr

          I haven’t said puppet.

          • AM Hants

            I have.

  • cechas vodobenikov

    no surprise—amerikans have a fascist, bureaucratized subconscious; it is expected that they would have produced the fascist coup in Bolivia

    • Chris Gr

      Facepalm

  • Mike

    News like this make me leave SouthFront for no more being objective.

  • AM Hants

    No doubt, with Nazi sympathies, you will no doubt find a lot of support from Soros and friends, if previous regime changes are anything to go by.

    There is an interesting article, over on Stalker Zone, with regards preparations for the Rose Revolution II. Funny how the same crowd, behind the Maidan, is involved with it all. Burisma Holdings – who donate to the Atlantic Council and Soros Open Society Foundations, which donate to the Atlantic Council. Does the John McCain Foundation, also donate to the Atlantic Council? Remember McCain and Nuland, handing out the $5 billion cookies, over at The Maidan? How come so many involved in the destruction of Ukraine, are linked to the John McCain Foundation, including Kurt Volker and why does it work closely with Saakashvili? Especially where Georgia is concerned?

    Georgian Politician Irakli Gogava: US Neocons Seek to Destabilise Georgia and Drag Russia Into Another Conflict…

    ‘…The participants of this conference are interesting:

    Ben Hodges – retired US General, head of the “Center for European Policy Analysis,” an ardent opponent of President Trump.

    Kurt Volker – professional diplomat. He was the special representative of the United States in Ukraine and Director of the McCain Institute. He is married to Georgian “Voice of America” journalist Ia Meurmishvili and the couple’s recent wedding was witnessed by the journalist of Saakashvili’s “Mtavari” TV channel Eka Kvesitadze and Tamar Kordzaia from the ultra-liberal Republican Party of Georgia.

    David Kramer – director of the McCain Institute, a former director of Freedom House, and was an assistant to McCain. In 2016 he published “Trump Dossier”, which he received from British intelligence officer Christopher Steele. According to the dossier, Russia has kompromat on Trump. Kramer handed the dossier to McCain and Congressman Adam Kinzinger, who recently visited Georgia.

    Batu Kutelia – Saakashvili’s ambassador to the United States and Deputy Defence Minister of Georgia in 2008. He works with US research centers: McCain Institute, Atlantic Council, etc.

    Matthew Bryza – since 2005 Deputy Assistant Secretary of State of the United States and friend of Saakashvili. His work in favour of Saakashvili’s party in Georgia is widely known. In 2010 he was appointed ambassador to Azerbaijan, but due to the pressure of the Armenian lobby was not confirmed by the US Senate. He had to leave the State Department and today works as an adviser to the Turkish branch of SOCAR. He cooperates with the Jamestown Foundation.

    Michael Carpenter – director of the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement, and also works for the Jamestown Foundation. During Saakashvili’s administration he was Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence of the United States and together with Matthew Bryza often visited Georgia. 5 days before “Gavrilov’s Event” he arrived in Tbilisi.

    Randy Scheunemann – American lobbyist who has been working for Saakashvili since 2004. This cooperation is officially published in the US, on the website of the register of lobbyists. In 2002-2003 he helped President Bush popularise the invasion of Iraq. In 2008 he was the head of international relations for McCain’s presidential campaign. His lobbying firms are Orion Strategies, Scheunemann and associates, and Mercury Group. He and McCain visited Georgia in the spring of 2008 a few months before the outbreak of the August War.

    Daniel Fried – American diplomat, who was Assistant Secretary of State of the United States from 2005-2009 and was the boss of Matthew Bryza. He worked as an adviser to President Bush. He is known for opposing the process of recognising the Armenian genocide. Under Saakashvili’s rule he actively supported Georgia’s militarisation.

    General Philip Breedlove is a retired United States general who distinguishes himself by anti-Russian rhetoric. He states that Georgia is ready for NATO membership and advises Georgia to create an anti-Russian military coalition.

    These persons represent a group of neoconservatives, and they can also be called the McCain group. The goal of this group is to prevent Trump from being re-elected in the 2020 election.

    Read more: https://www.stalkerzone.org/georgian-politician-irakli-gogava-us-neocons-seek-to-destabilise-georgia-and-drag-russia-into-another-conflict/

    …………………

    • Per Jensen

      A very fine research you have done!

      • AM Hants

        Thank you.