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DECEMBER 2021

Armenia Claims Karabakh Forces Have Downed Azeri Su-25, Denied By Azerbaijan

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Armenia Claims Karabakh Forces Have Downed Azeri Su-25, Denied By Azerbaijan

The Su-25 ground attack aircraft. File photo.

A spokesperson for Armenia’s Ministry of Defence claimed on Monday that the Karabakh anti-air defence units have shot down one of Azerbaijan’s Su-25 fighters. Azerbaijan’s Ministry of Defence has categorically denied the claim.   

The Armenians also repeated the allegation that Azerbaijan’s Su-25’s are flying sorties accompanied by Turkish F-16s.

“The Azerbaijan Air Forces are using Su-25 fighters, covered by Turkey’s F-16, along the entire line of contact. The anti-air defense units of the Artsakh [Karabakh] Defense Army have downed a Su-25 of the adversary in the north-east,” Ministry of Defence spokesperson Shushan Stepanyan wrote on Facebook.

No evidence has been provided to support the claim. LINK

Later in the day Azerbaijan’s Ministry of Defence categorically rejected the claim.

“The Armenian Defense Ministry’s statement about yet another alleged ‘downed’ Azeri jet Su-25 is a blatant lie that arose from desperation. Azerbaijan is not using its combat aircraft and we are fully in compliance with the humanitarian ceasefire,” the head of the Azeri Defence Ministry’s press service said. LINK

The Su-25 was designed to support ground forces and destroy heavy armoured vehicles, fortifications and other ground targets. The Su-25 serves a similar function to the US A-10 ground attack aircraft, however it is significantly smaller, lighter and faster than its US counterpart and also features more powerful weaponry. LINK

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Putin Apologist

This is not surprising, Armenian forces will get better and better at dealing with Azerbaijan’s aerial assets the longer this war goes on.

SevenMoons

Artskins first said its Su-25 was shot down by Turkey F-16. Now they say they shot down Azeri Su-25.

What what is going on??

It is just hard to believe those Artskins….

Great Khan

Great Khan think Armenistan great loser and liar!

Lone Ranger

NATO is failed and obsolete.
It will be replaced by a unified EU army soon.
Without the U.S….

Fog of War

And that’s supposed to be a better development ? The same actors will control the EU army that currently control NATO.
Also, have you seen the sate of European forces currently ? Germany for example ?

Lone Ranger

Yeah I know what you mean.
But we have to get rid of the U.S. bully.
Issues can be solved later.

Simplekindof Man

The first is real,but I really doubt the second part….

cechas vodobenikov

Azeris deny all reports; they refuse to report any military casualties; their soldiers r ghosts?

Ida Acobian

azerborgs

Assad must stay

i dont get why azeris or any other country for that matter deny their losses, it just makes them look like shitheads when the truth is confirmed

Andranik

Because a dirty Turk will always be a dirty Turk, just like how you cant keep a dog from eating it’s own shit.

Assad must stay

hahahaha i literally lolled

Great Khan

Great Khan think Armenistani as dirty as Hindu street shit monkey. Russia save you from kaputenheimer.

Mustafa Mehmet

Who let the ranik dogs out?comment image

Lone Ranger

Why aren’t the Su-30s in the air and S-300s fireing missiles left and right??

Jihadi Colin

Let me explain to you the propaganda tactics used by the Modi regime in India.

This is, remember, a totally hypothetical scenario! It is not fact!:

The Modi regime is faced with, say, protests owing to its constant misrule. It’s in danger of losing state elections. In order to distract attention, it conducts alleged airstrikes on Pakistani territory. Said airstrikes fail to hit anything but the regime claims 10 or 15 or 20 “terrorist training camps” have been destroyed. During these alleged “airstrikes” there is a dogfight and an Indian MiG 21, let’s say, is shot down well inside Pakistani territory and the pilot (let’s call him Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, just for fun) captured. The Modi regime loudly announces that Abhinandan Varthaman shot down a Pakistani F 16.

In response, Pakistan:

1. Shows footage of the MiG 21 wreckage with the four missiles the plane can carry still unexploded.

2. Has Amerikastani officials count their F 16s and certify that none are missing.

Meanwhile, satellite images prove that the “airstrikes” launched by India hit only trees.

So, you’d think the Modi regime ends up embarrassed, right?

Wrong!

The Modi regime has no interest in facts. It has no interest in convincing other countries. Its only purpose is to establish an official narrative for domestic consumption. Having done so, it uses its fully controlled media and paid army of online trolls (known as the BJP IT Cell) to shout down any doubters as “traitors”. Opposition parties, such as they are, fall into line to avoid being painted as Quislings (but of course are anyway).

Exactly the same tactic is being used by both sides in the Nagorno Karabakh war. Facts are unimportant, the story is the thing.

The photos below, of course, are fictional! No Indian pilot called Abhinandan Varthaman was captured by Pakistan! And any bombs dropped by Indian planes exactly hit their targets!
comment image

Assad must stay

Thats my point tho how do you know the pic is fake, how can you trust either side? Unless you were there, its very hard

Whacko

The Armenian Ministry of Defense claims that an air defense unit shot down one of Azerbaijan’s Su-25 fighter jets without any concrete evidence. They can’t lie because Russia and Iran are also constantly watching their skies.

Great Khan

Azeri brother STRONK and need to finish job. Karabakh belong Azerbaijan.

Lazy Gamer

Armenian artillery was not able to hit Azerbaijan artillery. Azerbaijan artillery was able to counter in about 15 seconds.

PZIVJ

Perhaps friendly fire
Turkish back stabbers shot down another SU-25?

Doom Sternz

Azerbaijan clearly went to negotiate a peace deal in Russia to end the war they started and now realise is not a quick victory. This is the way out for them and Turkey has been sidelined.

Doom Sternz

The world now clearly understand who Trump is, who NATO is and who the rules based order is. The rules based order is global terrorism. These acts of aggression by Azerbaijan are what the ICC calls the Supreme International Crime. These are war crimes but again the guilty will not be held to account.

The enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh held a referendum in 1991 where the people chose independence from Azerbaijan and self-declared the Republic of Artsakh. Artsakh includes Nagorno-Karabakh and seven surrounding districts which accounted for about 30% of Azerbaijan.

Joseph Stalin decided to make the Nagorno-Karabakh region an autonomous oblast of Soviet Azerbaijan. After the dissolution of the USSR the enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh held a referendum where the people chose independence from Azerbaijan and self-declared the Republic of Artsakh.

Armenia has supported Artsakh both militarily and economically because it is populated by an Armenian majority and because of the UN principle of self-determination. The only interest for the Azerbaijanis is the integrity of their territory hence the need to ethnically cleanse the area of its Armenian population.

Ishyrion Av

This is what stupid and murderous turks don’t want to know. That Azerbaijan exists as a state only after 1918, that they are guilty of mass murder of tens of thousands of Armenians in 1918, while they were accomplices to the Armenian genocide. That Artakh is lived by Armenian since the formation of Christianity on that lands.
While another genocidal, Stalin, broke it from Armenia and gave it to Azerbaijan, hoping to convince Turkey to embrace communism.

Sauron

For CAS an ability to be slow is an advantage, rather than speed.

Lone Ranger

Indeed.
A CAS jet should have three major features.
Low speed and loitering over an area, armor, and firepower.
In that regard the A-10 and Su-25 are the best.

Sauron

No wonder neither of countries is considering a replacement

Jihadi Colin

The Imperialist States of Amerikastan wants to junk the A 10 for the F 35. The A 10 isn’t sexy enough. It also doesn’t need upgrades so can’t be made money from.

Jihadi Colin

The A 10 is far better than the SU 25 as a ground attack aircraft, no comparison, but can’t fight off enemy aircraft without help from escorts. The SU 25 can.

Lone Ranger

Why would it be far better?
A-10 has more ammo for the main gun aside from that their firepower is even.
Su-25 is more maneuverable with better armor, higher top speed, more range.

Jihadi Colin

The A10 has much better armour, much greater ordnance carrying ability (more than twice that of the SU 25), much better survivability (because of the placement of its engines on top of the fuselage; Soviet designers became aware of this while they were designing the SU 25 but decided it was too late to change). It is optimised for ground attack and armour busting but can’t survive against enemy fighters without escort. The SU 25 is more a general purpose attack aircraft with secondary dogfight ability. It doesn’t need air escort against most opponents and can tolerate a lot of damage but nowhere near as much as the A10. It is not capable of doing as much damage to ground targets, especially armour, as the A10 can. Fast speed and air to air missiles are not assets in a dedicated ground attack aircraft. Slow speed, long loiter time, heavy ground attack ordnance capability, and the ability to absorb tremendous punishment are, and the A10 is ahead on all counts. It’s in fact literally the only aircraft I know in which the Amerikastanis are far ahead of Russia, or before them the USSR.

Lone Ranger

Wrong.
The A-10 has inferior armor.
The Su-25 has titanium armor plating 360 around the cockpit end engines.
Engines are also protected by the fuselage itself.
A much better design.

Jihadi Colin

You don’t know anything about air design, I’m thinking.

The A10 has 540 kg of titanium armour. The cockpit literally sits inside an armoured “bathtub”.

The A10’s engines are isolated from the fuselage. This has three advantages:

1. The wings and tail surfaces shield the infrared signature of the engines from heat seeking missiles.

2. If an engine catches fire the fuselage is protected from the flames.

3. Operating from rough strips the engines are far better protected from FOD.

Anything else?

Lone Ranger

Me thinking you are projecting…

The Su-25 has 1000kg of titanium armor.

The Su-25s engines are recessed into the fuselage. This has three advantages:

1. The fuselage and sturdy wings are shielding the infrared signature of the engines from heat seeking missiles.

2. If an engine catches fire the fuselage is protected from the flames by the titanium armor plating at exhaust and oil draining system.

3. Operating from rough strips the engines are far better protected from FOD, as we all know Russians are the masters of this.

Anything else?

Jihadi Colin

How are underwing engines better protected from FOD than those above the fuselage? Or exhaust from them less IR than those mounted above the fuselage? Have you even seen an A10?

Lone Ranger

Its not underwing engines.
Its inside the the fuselage.
You must be mixing it up with an Me-262 lol.

Lone Ranger

Have you ever seen a su-25…?

Jihadi Colin

I know both planes exceptionally well. When I was in the air force a pilot and I did a project on the ideal counter-insurgency aircraft (not a dedicated tank buster, but operating under the same requisites of slow speed, heavy ordnance load, long loiter time, and resistance to ground fire) and we did detailed studies on both these planes. Our ideal COIN aircraft closely resembled an A 10 with turboprop engines mounted over high wings (like an Antonov 32).

When you tried to debate me you picked on the wrong person entirely.

Lone Ranger

Im not impressed, sorry.
Saw a guy once at Top Gun, video is up on youtube, and he started detailing how the F-15 is better than the Su-27.
Which isnt true but thats not the case, side issue.
He listed the onboard systems of the jet and he got multiple things wrong, from the name of the engine, to the rated thrust, to radar and missile range, for a while I thought it was a prank, sadly it wasnt.
Have a nice evening.
If you are in the U.S. have a nice day :)

Jihadi Colin

The F 15/SU 27 comparison has damn all to do with the A10/SU25.

Lone Ranger

Analogy…

Jihadi Colin

In every single department except the A10, the Soviet or Russian equivalent beats the Amerikastani one or is at least as good. There is no analogy, it’s just your ignorance of the matter.

Lone Ranger

If an “expert” was wrong on them.
Why should I trust another “expert”.
I wont.
Sorry.
Bye.

Jihadi Colin

Your choice.

You can also ignore warnings to do basic hygiene. That’s from experts too, after all.

Lone Ranger

Su-25 also has a cold air intake port on top cooling the engines and exhaust gases.
Its just a better design.
Sorry…

Lone Ranger

4.4tons vs 7.3tons, from that a big chunk is the 30mm gun with the 1200 rounds.
The rest is pretty much even.

Jihadi Colin

No it isn’t, because if the SU 25 expects to operate in an environment where it is faced with aerial opposition and has to include anti aircraft missiles. The SU 25 is also far shorter ranged and if it is to increase said range it has to carry auxiliary fuel tanks decreasing its ordnance carrying capacity.

The A10 is a dedicated ground attack aircraft. The SU 25 isn’t. It’s as simple as that.

Lone Ranger

Sure it is a dedicated CAS jet.
Both the A-10 and Su-25 are escorted by fighters in contested airspace.

Lone Ranger

A-10 range
250 nmi (288 mi, 460 km at 1.88 hour loiter at 5,000 ft (1,500 m), 10 min combat
Anti-armor mission: 252 nmi (290 mi, 467 km), 40 nmi (45 mi, 75 km)) sea-level penetration and exit, 30 min combat.

Lone Ranger

Range: 1,000 km (620 mi, 540 nmi)

Combat range: 750 km (470 mi, 400 nmi) at sea level with 4,400 kg (9,700 lb) of ordnance and two external fuel tanks

That means without drop tanks it has about the same range as the A-10 with similiar combat load.
Or 4.4tons combat load and almost twice the range.
Better luck next time…

Arman Melkonyan

“…features more powerful weaponry.”

No, the SU-25 does not, in comparison with the A-10 which features a 30mm cannon with depleted uranium tipped shells, if I recall correctly. (Copious usage of said DU shells by the Americans resulted in an explosion of malformed children and cancer cases in Iraq.)

A Russian weapons advertisement mascarading as a news piece.

Jihadi Colin

You’re totally correct, the A 10 can carry more than twice the ordnance of the SU 25 and has a much longer loiter time. As for the cannon, the plane is basically built around that cannon. It’s the most powerful aerial cannon ever built.

Arman Melkonyan

The A-10 has superior armor and features design elements that hinder infrared-seeking air-to-air missile effectiveness such as the twin tale design which masks the heat signature of the high-mounted engines, as well.

I believe the A-10 can also out turn an F-16 at slower speeds due to its enormous wings.

The Su-25 really is just a glorified Alpha Jet Trainer with some armor and heavier ordinance capability.

Thanks.

Jihadi Colin

The SU 25’s later iterations have HUD and improved subsystems but it’s still only a generalist ground attack fighter bomber, not a dedicated Shturmovik like the A10.

Jihadi Colin

The SU 25 is smaller, lighter and faster than the A 10 but is outclassed in weaponry. The A 10 is much, much more heavily armed and is also far more damage resistant owing to its engine placement atop the fuselage.

opet ja

Jesus man, A-10 is slower and slow in maneuvers. It was designed to replace A-1 Skyrider upon experience gained in Vietnam. They needed a big one that can loiter for two hours with lot of weapons under wings. Actually it is an anti-partisan attack plane. It was never used until USAF had absolute air dominance. Above battlefield I would always be happier in Su-25 than in slow A-10..

Jihadi Colin

Of course it is slower. It’s slower because ground attack planes need to be slow to hit targets. It’s deliberately designed with straight wings and the twin rudder tail and the external podded engines slow it down more. The twin rudders give it superior manoeverability to the SU 25, and also a failsafe of duplicated control surfaces.

Here’s what happened to an A10 that got chewed up by Iraqi anti aircraft fire over Baghdad:

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/139483/pilot-brings-battle-damaged-a-10-home-safely/

How many SU 25 s do you know survived damage like that?

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