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Almost Half Of Active U.S. Military Troops Believes Large-Scale War Is Coming Soon

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Almost Half Of Active U.S. Military Troops Believes Large-Scale War Is Coming Soon

army.mil

Almost half of all active military troops in the US army believe that the US will be part of a large-scale war soon, according to a Military Times poll of the active-duty troops. According to the poll, troops are anxious about global instability in general and about Russia and China in particular.

Close to 46% of the questioned active troops believe that the US will be draw into a large-scale war soon. This number has increased from 5% in September 2017’s survey.

Almost Half Of Active U.S. Military Troops Believes Large-Scale War Is Coming Soon

militarytimes.com

Still, more people think that it is unlikely that there will be war at 50%, however in 2017 that number was 67%. Only 4% of people responded with “I don’t know,” in comparison to that share being 28% in 2017.

These fears are mostly due to media hysteria as well as US President Donald Trump and his administration repeatedly emphasizing the importance of improving military readiness against “a growing threat from foreign adversaries, both terrorist groups and traditional major power rivals.”

When they were asked about specific countries, unsurprisingly the top answers were China and Russia. The two countries were the top answers in 2017 as well. However, 71% said Russia is a significant threat, compared to 53% in 2017. For China there was a similar movement, 69% in 2018 and 45% in 2017.

Almost Half Of Active U.S. Military Troops Believes Large-Scale War Is Coming Soon

militarytimes.com

Military Times cited Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller, who in 2017 told Marines that he thought there was a “big-ass fight” on the horizon. “I hope I’m wrong, but there’s a war coming,” Neller told Marines in Norway.

Troops also appeared to worry the most about cyber terrorism. Nearly 89% answered that it is the biggest threat the US is facing currently. It was ranked as a higher threat than Russia and China, as well as domestic and non-domestic Islamic terrorists.

Surprisingly, Iran is way down on the threat list, despite US claims that it is the biggest funder of terrorism globally. North Korea is marginally “scarier” than the Islamic Republic.

Almost Half Of Active U.S. Military Troops Believes Large-Scale War Is Coming Soon

militarytimes.com

It is highly likely that the reason behind cyber terrorism’s first place is that in the past several weeks the mainstream media narrative, as well as a lot of rhetoric from officials from the US, the Netherlands and the UK have been focused towards the presumed threat of cyber attacks and espionage from Russia and China.

Iraq and Afghanistan are viewed as less of a threat in 2018, compared to 2017. There has been a steady decrease in the assessment of threat from these two countries. It could be due to troops still being in the countries. It could be due to Iraq having announced the defeat of ISIS in late 2017 and Donald Trump’s previous calls that the US is “winning” against the Taliban.

Almost Half Of Active U.S. Military Troops Believes Large-Scale War Is Coming Soon

militarytimes.com

The Military Times cited one of its respondents, a recruiter claimed that Donald Trump’s handling of the North Korea nuclear weapons issue was risky, however he approved his president going “toe-to-toe” in negotiations. “It was kind of scary, but he had the guts to go over there and stand up for what a lot of Americans are believing in,” the unnamed recruiter said.

Another respondent, a female Army sergeant first class said that it had “never been this bad” due to there being too many adversaries due to Trump’s way of doing business. She is anxious of a “constant conflict” occurring soon, of endless deployments and fighting. “With the way we’re growing our force, I tell my soldiers the reason we are growing the force is because we need you, and we’re going to fight,” she was cited by the Military Times.

Troops were generally supportive of US Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, who is a former Marine Corps General. They claimed that he would stop some of Trump’s riskier impulses.

In total, 829 respondents were interviewed. The survey audience was 89 percent male and 11 percent female and had an average age of about 31 years old.

In general, this is a worrisome result, as propaganda aimed at the military personnel to keep them battle ready and cause a sort of anxiousness that a conflict is coming is not an uncommon tool. It is used precisely before leaders plan to initiate such a conflict so that the troops are prepared for a large-scale war.

Hopefully, as one of the respondents, Chief Warrant Officer 2 Jay Thompson, an Army helicopter pilot at Fort Drum, New York, said “no one is seeking the peer-on-peer war,” regarding his belief that China, the US and Russia do not wish war.

Why the U.S. Military is Woefully Unprepared for a Major Conventional Conflict

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lene johansen

LOL- USA is behind ALL WARS – of course they are frighten (of their own shadow)

Zo Fu

It is about time to start a big war on US soil.
Basically – it is all about fake money, banks, evil-wicked elites and mass murdering innocent people to get more power. And the histroy repeats itself.
Just look at it.

WW1 – caused by MIC, Rothschilds and Banks
1914 -1918 , industry destructed in Europe, reserve currency – GBP – weakened
1919 GB abandoned golden standard, USD became world reserve currency
1930 – global recession , Hitler raised in Germany backed by corporations (aka Jews and namely Rothschilds)
1933 – US abandoned golden standard
WW2 – caused by MIC, Rotschilds and Banks – again
1939-1945, industry destructed in Europe, 20 millions died in Russia
1947 Cold War started
1948 – Israel founded, Marshall plan, US industry boom,
1950 – Korean War .. after which series of uninterrupted preemptive wars and regime changes outside of US took place, the last ones are present in Syria, Ukraine, Yemen and new one is staring in Iran.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_fought_by_the_United_States
1963 JFK assasinated by Deep State
1963-75 Vietnam War – decisive US defeat, since 1971 free US journalism was targeted and was utterly destroyed by Clintons Telecommunications Act in 1996
1968 – gold market completely rigged and destroyed by Johnsson’s eliminating the “gold cover”

2008 last global economy depression – country origin – USA

2018 US Banks “too big to fail” unable to control markets any more.
-global economy recession or WW3 is inevitable.
-Rothschilds&Co are preparing global war with Russia
-Club of Rome and Bildeberg: 6 billions people should die according to “depopulation” plans

As you can see, it is all the same over and over again. The same people, the same purposes and the same methods. The only way how to stop it is strike them anywhere they move. Now it is the USA and Israel. Tomorrow it could be China. Day after tomorrow – well, who knows.

What they want is destroying infrastructure, kill people and control markets. Forever. With impunity. Unnoticed.

Merijn

AMERICAN WARS SINCE 1775:

American Revolutionary War
(1775–1783)

Cherokee-American Wars
(1776–1795)

North-West Indian Wars
(1785–1793)

Shays’ Rebellion
(1786–1787)

Whiskey Rebellion
(1791–1794)

Quasi War
(1798–1800)

First Barbary War
(1801–1805)

German Coast Uprising
(1811)

Tecumseh’s War
(1811)

War of 1812
(1812–1815)

Creek War
(1813–1814)

Second Barbary War
(1815)

First Seminloe War
(1817–1818)

Texas-Indian Wars
(1820–1875)

Arikara War
(1823)

Aegean Sea Anti-Piracy
Operations of the United States
(1825-1828)

Winnebago War
(1827)

First Sumatran Expedition
(1832)

Black Hawk War
(1832)

Second Seminole War
(1835–1842)

Second Sumatran Expedition
(1838)

Aroostook War
(1838)

Ivory Coast Expedition
(1842)

Mexican-American War
(1846–1848)

Cayuse War
(1847–1855)

Apache Wars
(1851–1900)

Puget Sound War
(1855–1856)

First Fiji Expedition
(1855)

Rogue River Wars
(1855–1856)

Third Seminole War
(1855–1858)

Yakima War
(1855–1858)

Second Opium War
(1856–1859)

Utah War
(1857–1858)

Navajo Wars
(1858–1866)

Second Fiji Expedition
(1859)

John Brown’s raid on Harper’s Ferry
(1859)

First & Second Cortina War
(1859–1861)

Paiute War
(1860)

American Civil War
(1861–1865)

Yavapai Wars
(1861–1875)

Dakota War of 1862
(1862)

Colorado War
(1863–1865)

Shimonoseki War
(1863–1864)

Snake War
(1864–1868)

Powder River War
(1865)

Red Cloud’s War
(1866–1868)

Formosa Expedition
(1867)

Comanche Campaign
(1867–1875)

United States Expedition to Korea
(1871)

Modoc War
(1872–1873)

Red River War
(1874–1875)

Las Cuevas War
(1875)

Great Sioux War of 1876
(1876–1877)

Buffalo Hunter’s War
(1876–1877)

Nez Perce War
(1877)

Bannock War
(1878)

Cheyenne War
(1878–1879)

Sheepeater Indian War
(1879)

Victorio’s War
(1879–1881)

White River War
(1879–1880)

Pine Ridge Campaign
(1890-1891)

Garza Revolution
(1891–1893)

Yaqui Wars
(1896–1918)

Second Samoan War
(1898–1899)

Spanish-American War
(1898)

Philippine-American War
(1899–1902)

Moro Rebellion
(1899–1913)

Boxer Rebellion
(1899–1901)

Crazy Snake Rebellion
(1909)

Border War
(1910–1919)

Negro Rebellion
(1912)

Occupation of Nicaragua
(1912–1933)

Bluff War
(1914–1915)

Occupation of Veracruz
(1914)

Occupation of Haiti
(1915–1934)

Occupation of the Dominican Republic
(1916–1924)

World War I
(1914–1918)

Russian Civil War
(1918–1920)

Last Indian Uprising
(1923)

World War II
(1939–1945)

Korean War
(1950–1953)

Laotian Civil War
(1953–1975)

Lebanon Crisis
(1958)

Bay of Pigs Invasion
(1961)

Vietnam War
(1965–1973, 1975)

Communist insurgency in Thailand
(1965-1983)

Korean DMZ Conflict
(1966–1969)

Dominican Civil War
(1965–1966)

Insurgency in Bolivia
(1966–1967)

Cambodian Civil War
(1967–1975)

War in South Zaire
(1978)

Operation Eagle Claw
(1980)

Gulf of Sidra Encounter
(1981)

Lebanese Civil War
(1982–1984)

Invasion of Grenada
(1983)

Action in the Gulf of Sidra
(1986)

Bombing of Libya
(1986)

Tanker War
(1987–1988)

Tobruk Encounter
(1989)

Invasion of Panama
(1989–1990)

Gulf War
(1990–1991)

Iraqi No-Fly Zone Enforcement
(1991–2003)

First Intervention in the Somali Civil War
(1992–1995)

Bosnian War
(1992–1995)

Intervention in Haiti
(1994–1995)

Kosovo War
(1998–1999)

Operation Infinite Reach
(1998)

War in Afghanistan
(2001–present)

Iraq War
(2003–2011)

War in North-West Pakistan
(2004–present)

War in Somalia
(2007–present)

Operation Ocean Shield
(2009–2016)

American-Led intervention in Libya
(2011)

Lord’s Resistance Army insurgency
(2011-2017)

American-Led intervention in Iraq
(2014–2017)

American-Led intervention in Syria
(2014–present)

Yemeni Civil War
(2015–present)

American intervention in Libya
(2015–present)

Jens Holm

As usual Yo dont take in Ottomans as well as Russians.

Merijn

Ofcourse not…and Turkey & Russia are doing a Very Good job at the moment…. Bringing Down the Great Western Empire….a bare necessity…

Nigel Maund

Excellent post and all true! Jens is a US troll so take no notice.

Merijn

I know Jens the Danish Viking pretty well…

AlexanderAmproz

What he is saying is valueless
I block him long ago !

Merijn

I haven’t blocked anyone…so that I can keep track of Hasbaras…

AlexanderAmproz

The XX Century had 203 millions Genocide victims,
“only” 6 Millions unproven Jews victims are interesting,
the other 197 Millions are valueless for UK/US/Israeli Propaganda.

As long as the focus is on the Shoah, 197 Millions,
mostly UK/US/French Victims remained with dust
under the Carpet.

http://necrometrics.com/all20c.htm
Necrometrics

Estimated Totals for the Entire 20th Century

Site Index

Alphabetical Index

How many people died in all the wars, massacres, slaughters and oppressions of the Twentieth Century? Here are a few atrocitologists who have made estimates:

M. Cherif Bassouni, “Searching for peace and achieving justice: the need for accountability”, published on Law and Contemporary Problems, vol. 59: no. 4. [http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?59+Law+&+Contemp.+Probs.+9+(Fall+1996)] (Citing Rummel and SIPRI)

33 million “military casualties” (That’s how the article phrased it, but I presume that means military deaths.)

170 million killed in “conflicts of a non-international charater, internal conflicts and tyrannical regime victimization”)

incl. 86M since the Second World War

[TOTAL: 203,000,000]

Zbigniew Brzezinski, Out of Control: Global Turmoil on the Eve of the Twenty-first Century (1993)

“Lives deliberately extinguished by politically motivated carnage”:

167,000,000 to 175,000,000

Including:

War Dead: 87,500,000

Military war dead:

33,500,000

Civilian war dead:

54,000,000

Not-war Dead: 80,000,000

Communist oppression:

60,000,000

David Barrett, World Christian Encyclopedia (2001)

Merijn

Thanks… for the statistics…copied them

Nigel Maund

Great post and totally agree! Thanks for posting this!

Nod

yup

Nigel Maund

No they’re (the USA) operating to the Rothschild’s playbook and have been since 1913 with the creation of the FED which they (the Rothschild’s) control via the Warburgs and Morgans.

MADE MAKER

USA Will Drag its own self into WAR

AlexanderAmproz

US idiosyncrasy is totally perverted by 220 Years of warmongering and “Genocides”

Only the recent history since 1945 records is 83 Destroyed Country
with 28 Millions Civilians Genocides

They are the Planet Cancer for the Humans disappearance

MADE MAKER

well said, they never build bridges always…DESTROYING & DIVIDING

Jens Holm

To You, You mean, dont You. They dont build bridges to You.

I wonder why ?

Nigel Maund

You speak utter personalised nonsense. Are you a low order operative for the CIA bugging these pages? ….. because I am convinced you are!

Nigel Maund

Not the USA as its Govermment are the puppets of the Rothschild’s, Warburgs, Schiff’s, Morgans and Lazards. Since 1913, when Woodrow Wilson was duped into allowing the Fed to be created, as a Privately Owned Central Bank, the US lost control of its economy, finances and currency to the International Bankster Cabal and their quest for Global Hegemony. The US has been used by these people for the last 105 years to be the instrument that brings about Global control through finance, intelligence agencies (CIA, NSA, FBI) and military power, with all three used in conjunction to beat all other nations into submission to their will. “Regime Change” is their mantra! Blackmail their principal internal method of control of Politicians and decision makers on a Global basis.

AlexanderAmproz

This is explaining all the WW1 miseries done by one man
owning all Newspapers weapons factories and corrupting
all War Ministers in all the involved Countries.
Behind the scene there was the UK Vickers owned
by the Rothschild Family !

The Merchant of Death: Basil Zaharoff

TAGS BiographiesWar and Foreign PolicyWorld History

08/24/2007John T. Flynn

If the Lord God Jehovah had not created Basil Zaharoff, some novelist sooner or later would certainly have got around to the job. Indeed, it is by no means certain that Zaharoff, as we have him, is not the joint product of God and the fiction writers.

Lieutenant Colonel Walter Guinness, member for Bury St.Edmonds, committed the blunder against history of referring to Zaharoff in the House of Commons in 1921 as the “Mystery Man of Europe.” Having fixed upon him that fascinating label, the figure of Zaharoff became thereafter a costumer’s dummy upon which the news caricaturists of Europe draped whatever garments would vindicate his reputation.

Mysterious indeed he is and still more mysterious he became at the hands of the sensational news portrait painters. The mystery begins with his birth. A French biographer, Roger Menevee? records that he was born in Moughliou, or Mugla, on the Anatolian coast. But a German, Robert Neumann, asserts that Zaharoff, testifying in a London court as a young man, said he was born in the Tatavla or poor section of Constantinople, and he notes that the Mugla nativity is attested by an affidavit of a Greek priest made forty-two years after the event and was based upon memory.

It was never known with complete certainty to what country he owed allegiance. He was a Greek, born in Turkey, who lived in Paris. His right to the ribbon of the Grand Cross of the Legion of Honor was questioned in the Chamber of Deputies and M. Clemenceau had to assure the Chamber that “M. Zaharoff is a Frenchman.” But also he was throughout his life the guiding genius of a great British armament concern, acted as a British agent, was a Knight of the Bath, known in England as Sir Basil Zaharoff.

Journalists said he spoke fluently fourteen languages — which is probably an extravagant exaggeration. They reported how he had confided to a written record the story of his life, filling fifty-eight volumes which he ordered to be burned at his death, while others told how he had himself destroyed the record, two days being consumed in reducing it to ashes in the furnace of his Paris home. Extravagant tales were told of his habits, his amours, his dinners, and the exotic dishes brought fresh by plane from immense distances for his table. But, in fact, the reporters and the historians have produced but little about the personal life and affairs of the man. Searching the extensive but empty records, one fails to discover any documents or letters or speeches or records or meetings or conferences or instances in which the man is actually present. Always one hears that he is somewhere in the background, off in the shadows, pulling the strings, supplying the stratagems and the money.

Yet it is certain that he remains the most considerable figure in that feverish world of the munitions makers that has had so much advertisement since the Great War. Only a few names take first rank among this dubious company — old Alfred Krupp, the cannon king of Essen, the Schneiders of Creusot, Thomas Vickers, the English gun maker of Sheffield, Skoda, du Pont de Nemours, the American powder king, Colt and Winchester and Remington and Maxim. They were all, as Messrs. Englebrecht and Hanighen have called them, “Merchants of Death.” But the mightiest “merchant” among them, the man who played the largest role in the “merchandising” of munitions, the greatest market maker, was Basil Zaharoff.

Nigel Maund

Superb commentary and very informative; much appreciated!

Nigel Maund

Watch this by the brave German journalist Udo Ulfkotte who has since died of cancer, which he knew he had when he wrote his book, which is a best seller in Germany, but not published in English for fear people would rise up against the MSM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGqi-k213eE

AlexanderAmproz

https://www.globalresearch.ca/english-translation-of-udo-ulfkottes-bought-journalists-suppressed/5601857

English Translation of Udo Ulfkotte’s “Bought Journalists” Suppressed?

By James F. Tracy

Global Research, July 31, 2017

Region: Europe, USA

Theme: Intelligence, Media Disinformation

The English translation of German journalist Udo Ulfkotte’s best-selling book, Gekaufte Journalisten (Bought Journalists) appears to have been suppressed throughout North America and Europe. On May 15, 2017 Next Revelation Press, an imprint of US-Canadian-based publisher Tayen Lane, released the English version of Bought Journalists, under the title, Journalists for Hire: How the CIA Buys the News.

Tayen Lane has since removed any reference to the title from its website. Correspondingly Amazon.com indicates the title is “currently unavailable,” with opportunities to purchase from independent sellers offering used copies for no less than $1309.09. The book’s subject matter and unexplained disappearance from the marketplace suggest how powerful forces are seeking to prevent its circulation.

Gekaufte Journalisten was almost completely ignored by mainstream German news media following its release in 2014. “No German mainstream journalist is allowed to report about [my] book,” Ulfkotte observed. “Otherwise he or she will be sacked. So we have a bestseller now that no German journalist is allowed to write or talk about.”{1]

Along these lines, publication of the English translation was repeatedly delayed. When this author contacted Ulfkotte in early December 2015 to inquire on the book’s pending translation, he responded, “Please find the link to the English edition here,”

http://www.tayenlane.com/bought-journalists

The above address once providing the book’s description and anticipated publication date now leads to an empty page.[2] Tayen Lane has not responded to emails or telephone calls requesting an explanation for the title’s disappearance.

When a book publisher determines that it has acquired a politically volatile or otherwise “troublesome” title it may embark on a process recognized in the industry as “privishing.” “Privishing is a portmanteau meaning to privately publish, as opposed to true publishing that is open to the public,” writes investigative journalist Gerald Colby.

It is usually employed in the following context: “We privished the book so that it sank without a trace.” The mechanism used is simple: cut off the book’s life-support system by reducing the initial print run so that the book “cannot price profitably according to any conceivable formula,” refuse to do reprints, drastically slash the book’s advertising budget, and all but cancel the promotional tour.”[3]

Privishing often takes place without the author knowing, simply because it involves breach of contract and potential liability. Tayen Lane will likely not face any legal challenge in this instance, however. Ulfkotte died of a heart attack on January 13, 2017, at age 56.[4]

Udo Ulfkotte was a prominent European journalist, social scientist, and immigration reform activist. Upon writing Gekaufte Journalisten and becoming one of the most significant media industry and deep state whistleblowers in recent history, Ulfkotte complained of repeated home searches by German state police and expressed fear for his own life. He also admitted previous health complications stemming from witnessing a 1988 poisoned gas attack in Iraqi Kurdistan.

Ulfkotte’s testimony of how intelligence agencies figure centrally in Western journalism is especially compelling because he for many years functioned in the higher echelons of mainstream newsworkers. The German journalist explains how he was recruited during the 1980s to work in espionage. This began through an invitation proffered by his graduate school advisor for an all-expense-paid trip to attend a two-week seminar on the Cold War conflict in Bonn.

Editor of Major German Newspaper Says He Planted Stories for the CIA

After Ulfkotte obtained his doctorate he was given a job as a reporter at “the leading conservative German newspaper, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, oddly appointed despite no journalistic training and hundreds of other applicants. Serving as a correspondent throughout the Middle East, Ulfkotte eventually became acquainted with agents from the CIA, German intelligence agency Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Britain’s MI6, and Israel’s Mossad, all of whom valued his ability to travel freely in countries largely closed to the West. His editors readily collaborated in such intelligence gathering operations,”[5] for which journalist possess “non-official cover” by virtue of their profession.

“Non-official cover” occurs when a journalist is essentially working for the CIA, but it’s not in an official capacity,” Ulfkotte explains. “This allows both parties to reap the rewards of the partnership, while at the same time giving both sides plausible deniability. The CIA will find young journalists and mentor them. Suddenly doors will open up, rewards will be given, and before you know it, you owe your entire career to them. That’s essentially how it works.”[6] He likewise ruefully admits to “publishing articles under my own name written by agents of the CIA and other intelligence services, especially the German secret service.”[7]

Ulfkotte’s insider knowledge of the relationship between mainstream media and the intelligence community has special relevance in terms of informing the CIA’s antipathy toward Wikileaks, as well as the media campaign centering on the Trump administration’s alleged “ties to Russia,” while also lending credence to Trump’s frequent claims of the US media’s political biases and deep state ties. Indeed, Ulfkotte “Tweeted” about these very subjects just two days before he passed.

Ulfkotte’s explosive revelations still have the potential to further intensify the much-deserved scrutiny corporate news media presently face. In a society that pays more than lip service to freedom of thought and expression Journalists for Hire would be required reading for college students—and particularly those studying in journalism programs intending to seek employment in the media industries.

In fact, journalism professors, some of whom have migrated to the academy following long careers at renowned news outlets, possess similar insider knowledge of the relationships Ulfkotte readily explains. As both journalists and educators they have a twofold burden of responsibility. This is the case more so than ever because the entire professional and intellectual enterprise they are engaged in (and one directly linked to the nation’s accelerating civic deterioration) has been made a farce. Journalists for Hire’s suppression suggests how Ulfkotte’s posthumous censors refuse for this important examination and cleansing to proceed.

Notes

[1] Ralph Lopez, “Editor of Major German Newspaper Says He Planted Stories for CIA,” Reader Supported News, February 1, 2015.

[2] Udo Ulfkotte to James Tracy, email correspondence, December 6, 2015. In author’s possession.

[3] Gerard Colby, “The Price of Liberty,” in Into the Buzzsaw: Leading Journalists Expose the Myth of a Free Press, Kristina Borjesson, ed., Amherst NY: Prometheus Books, 2002, 15-16.

[4] Former US military intelligence officer L. Fletcher Prouty relates a similar experience of how publication of his book, The Secret Team: The CIA and Its Allies in Control of the United States and the World, was greeted in 1972. “Then one day a business associate in Seattle called to tell me that the bookstore next to his office building had had a window full of books the day before, and none the day of his call. They claimed they had never had the book. I called other associates around the country. I got the same story from all over the country. The paperback had vanished. At the same time I learned that Mr. Ballantine had sold his company. I traveled to New York to visit the new ‘Ballantine Books’ president. He professed to know nothing about me, and my book … The campaign to to kill the book was nationwide and worldwide. It was removed from the Library of Congress and from College libraries as letters I received attested all too frequently.” Prouty, The Secret Team: The CIA and Its Allies in Control of the United States and the World, New York: SkyHorse Publishing, 2008, xii.

[5] Ronald L. Ray, “Reporter Admits Most Media Work for CIA, MI6, Mossad,” American Free Press, October 26, 2014. See also Tyler Durden, “German Journalist Blows Whistle on How CIA Controls the Media,” Zerohedge, October 9, 2014; Udo Ulfkotte, “German Politicians Are US Puppets,” Center for Research on Globalization, November 9., 2014.

[6] Durden, “German Journalist Blows Whistle on How CIA Controls the Media.”

[7] Lopez, “Editor of Major German Newspaper Says He Planted Stories for CIA.”

Nigel Maund

As below, erudite and superb commentary; great stuff …. and hearty thanks!

AlexanderAmproz

Thank’s you are welcome…

Promitheas Apollonious

Yes you are correct to fear. It is time this earth be cleansed from the ones who created the western colonies along with their followers. I am not a believer that their populations are good people BUT………… forcing them to do what they doing. Actually I believe the by products of the globalist, populations under their control and brainwashing machines (education system) for centuries now, are way worst than their creators.

Zo Fu

Anti Russia propaganda started quite recently. I could post here images of younger Putin driving a car on Bush’s private ranch, making jokes. Or images of joint NATO-Russia drills. Or mainstream discussion if Russia is ready to join NATO.
These are not lies. Everything went wrong after NATO destroyed Iraq on false pretext with “chemical weapons” and US MIC needed desperately another scapegoat to justify enormous military spending.
So antirussia hysteria started in mainstream and last for a decade.

And people are basically dumb as idiots and Goebels-like propaganda works perfectly on them.
I suppose some 90% of west population is indoctrinated enough to go in war with Russia.

They are utterly brainwashed and stupid. It is Russia’s fault that didn’t take any countermeasures against Soros-Rothschild-Deep State coalition and let it go so far.

They wanted avoid confrontation and what they achieved is losing all allies and now they are facing alone united brainwashed-zombie like West. Even in Syria they act quite weak. Remeber – Idlib was lost without fighting. S300 are present for years but never fired at Israeli planes. East Euphrate zone is occupied by illegal US presence. Genocide in Raqqa was never brought to light and punished.

NWOD

They are utterly brainwashed and stupid.

That’s generally true of people.

brainwashed-zombie like West

Again, people everywhere are the same standard of brainwashed zombies.

Genocide in Raqqa

Seriously? The damages/deaths there strike me as on the same scale as Mosul or Aleppo.

AlexanderAmproz

This is more true for the UK/US education “System”,
but a bit less in the developed Europe

======================================
https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/10/26/the-simulacra-democracy/
.

The Simulacra Democracy

by JOHN STEPPLING

… a nation in which 87 percent of eighteen- to twenty-four year olds (according to a 2002 National Geographic Society/Roper Poll survey) cannot locate Iran or Iraq on a world map and 11 percent cannot locate the United States (!) is not merely “intellectually sluggish.” It would be more accurate to call it moronic, capable of being fooled into believing anything …”

— Morris Berman

I cannot remember U.S. culture ever being quite so compromised by ruling class control. Hollywood turns out one jingoistic and militaristic and racist film and TV show after another. Corporate news is completely controlled by the same forces that run Hollywood. It is the complete capitulation of the liberal class to the interests of the increasingly fascistic U.S. elite. And this didn’t start with Donald Trump. Certainly in its current incarnation it goes back at least to Bill Clinton, and really it goes back to the end of World War Two. The ideological trajectory was formed under the Dulles brothers and military industrial complex — representing U.S. business interests and exhibiting a demand for global hegemony. But once the Soviet Union collapsed, the project was accelerated and intensified.

Another starting point might well be the 1960 Bay of Pigs fiasco, or the 1961 CIA (and MI6) assassination of Patrice Lumumba. Or Kennedy’s 1962 speech at American University calling for the end of Pax Americana. We know what happened to Kennedy soon after that. Pick any of these incidents. But it was the fall of the U.S.S.R. that signaled to the governing class, the proprietor class, that the last real obstacle to global domination had been removed. In the interim, one finds the Iran/Contra affair, and the invasion of Iraq. The real and the symbolic meaning of the Soviet Union is forgotten today, I think. Its meaning for the developing world, especially.

The next conscious trial balloon was Clinton’s attack on the former Yugoslavia. A test run for expanding NATO. And it worked. The propaganda machine has never been as successful as it was when it demonized the Serbs and Milosevic. Then came 9/11. And the well honed PR machine spewed an endless barrage of hyper-patriotic rhetoric and disinformation. American exceptionalism was given full credibility. And remember Colin Powell and his cartoon visual teaching aids at the UN? Nobody was going to argue. Certainly not the white liberal class. And Hollywood upped its game in churning out military fantasies. And in just churning out fantasies. A genre that lent itself to obvious neo-colonial messages. By 2007, when Barack Obama announces he will run for President, the master narrative for America was firmly entrenched. The biggest hit from Hollywood in this period is Avatar (2009), a neo-colonial fable that fit seamlessly with Obama’s reconquest of Africa.

Dan Glazebrook recently wrote:

The year 2009, two years before Gaddafi’s murder, was a pivotal one for US-African relations. First, because China surpassed the US as the continent’s largest trading partner; and second, because Gaddafi was elected President of the African Union. The significance of both for the decline of US influence on the continent could not be clearer. Whilst Gaddafi was spearheading attempts to unite Africa politically, committing serious amounts of Libyan oil wealth to make this dream a reality, China was quietly smashing the West’s monopoly over export markets and investment finance. Africa no longer had to go cap-in-hand to the IMF for loans, agreeing to whatever self-defeating terms were on offer, but could turn to China – or indeed Libya – for investment. And if the US threatened to cut them off from their markets, China would happily buy up whatever was on offer. Western economic domination of Africa was under threat as never before.

The US response was to increase base building, upgrade AFRICOM, and then murder Gadaffi. Hollywood hits from this period include The Hurt Locker and The Dark Knight. Meanwhile domestically Obama was giving the OK for militarizing of police departments across the country. On another front….Danny Haiphong wrote…

What isn’t discussed often enough is how Obama has worked tirelessly to protect and fulfill the interests of the corporate healthcare system. In 2009, he collaborated with the monopoly health insurance industry and its pharmaceutical counterparts to repress the demand for single payer healthcare. The conditions at the time appeared ripe for a single payer system. Popular discontent with Republican Party rule was at its highest point. A relatively organized movement for single payer care was represented by organizations such as Healthcare Now. The Democratic Party possessed a majority in both the House and Senate.

Obama came to power as Wall Street went into meltdown, 2008. But instead of hope and change we got almost 5 trillion dollars moving to the top 1% of the financial elite. Poverty increased every year under Obama, as did inequality. Social Network came out in 2010 and Wolf of Wall Street in 2013. Both were big hits. The message from Hollywood never changed. And part of that message is that wealth is its own justification and a symbol of virtue. Hollywood, and U.S. liberals just naturally gravitate toward the rich.

Obama attacked Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Yemen. And it is perhaps that last venture that will prove to be his most significant. Arming, training, and coordinating the Saudi aggression (and now that has escalated to boots on the ground) against the helpless Yemen has resulted in the largest humanitarian catastrophe in five decades.

The U.S. now has all but formally criminalized dissent, especially if that dissent is aimed at Israel.

None of this is to create exact corollaries between political action and studio product. But rather that the overriding message of Hollywood in both film and TV is to validate U.S. exceptionalism. And to hedge criticism with faint token protest. But its not just Hollywood, its theatre and fiction and all the rest of the arts. The erasure of the working class is the most pronounced truth in American culture today. There are no Clifford Odets (a high school drop out) anymore; they have been replaced by a steady stream of well groomed compliant MFA grads. Mostly from elite and expensive schools. Hemingway and James Baldwin were not college grads, nor was Tennessee Williams, the son of a traveling shoe salesman. Even more recent authors such as Thomas Pynchon were college drop outs (to join the Navy), but the point is that today mass culture is carefully controlled. Dreiser was a college drop out, and Twain was a typesetters apprentice. Others like Faulkner, went to University, but also worked. In Faulkner’s case as a postman. Same profession as Henry Miller and Charles Bukowski. Stephen Crane and Hemingway worked as journalists, when that was an honorable profession.

The decision makers in mass culture are mostly firmly entrenched in the Democratic Party ethos (witness stuff like House of Cards, Madame Secretary, or Veep). If one only gets one’s news from MSNBC or FOX or CNN then one will take away mostly pure propaganda. Rachel Maddow has a career based on craven parroting of DNC approved talking points and conclusions. Bill Maher, whose show is on HBO, is of late pimping for war. Sunday news talk shows do not invite radical voices, not ever. Michael Parenti isn’t on those shows, nor are Ajamu Baraka or Glen Ford Mike Whitney or Ed Curtin or Dan Glazebrook or Stephen Gowans. No, but there are plenty of retired generals and politicians. This is a media that exerts absolute control of message.

The loss of the working class, of class diversity, has been a far bigger blow to the health of the culture than anything else. One might argue that culture has always been, in the modern era, a province of the bourgeoisie, and that’s true. But there is still a rather pronounced change that has taken place. But Americans are discouraged from thinking in terms of class. They see individualism and identity. Get me more women directors they cry….which would give us more versions of Zero Dark Thirty, I guess. Gender equality matters, something every single socialist country in history has emphasized. Something Chavez saw fit to write into the Bolivarian constitution on day one. Chavez, who liberal avatar Bernie Sanders dismissed as a “dead communist dictator”. Chavez, who feminist avatar Hillary Clinton worked overtime to oust from power.

People are shocked…shocked I say…that US soldiers are killed in Niger. Darn that Donald Trump. When it is pointed out that it was Obama who sent troops there in his pivot to Africa, one is met with blank stares. The concern over U.S. soldiers dying is simply mind numbing in its hypocrisy and blinkered exceptionalism. I mean just count the numbers of dead civilians due to U.S. drone strikes from just one year. Pick any year you like.

Under Obama, the US African Command (AFRICOM) has penetrated every African country but Zimbabwe and Eritrea. AFRICOM has locked African nations into military subservience. In 2014, the US conducted 674 military operations in Africa . According to a recent Freedom of Information Act request by Intercept, the US currently has Special Forces deployed in more than twenty African nations.

Danny Haiphong

People are terrified today lest they be called conspiracy theorists. No single pejorative term has exercised such disproportionate power. There is a subterranean subject position associated with this, too. A masculine identity that connects with the presentation of those accepting of the official version of things. It is ‘no nonsense, mature, and sort of tough guy’ pose. Only weak and muddled (feminine you see!) would bother to question official narratives of…well, anything. It is staggering, really, why so few ask why is it OK to assassinate people without due process? Why is it whistleblowers, truth tellers, are being locked away and shunned? Why are there 900 plus US military bases around the world. Why, given the growing poverty in the U.S. do we need an updated nuclear arsenal that will cost trillions? In fact why is the defense budget over 4 billion a day? The liberal educated class seem not to ask such questions. Let alone ask is the U.S. arming takfiri jihadists in Syria? Most of what people call conspiracy is just perfectly reasonable skepticism. Given a history that includes COINTELPRO, Operation Northwoods, Gladio, MKUltra, and Operation AJAX. This is also relevant in terms of the coming war on *fake news*. An idea put forward by Obama and now in enthusiastic Orwellian operation by Facebook, YouTube, and Google. In the U.K. Theresa May proudly announces the government SHOULD control what one can see on the internet. Censorship is pitched as protection.

And then we come to NATO and Europe. Why does NATO even exist one might ask? I mean the USSR doesn’t exist anymore. Well, the answer has been under construction for a few years now, and that answer is the extraordinary anti Putin propaganda of the U.S. The “Russian Threat” is now an accepted trope in public discourse. Or the anti Iranian disinformation. In fact Iran is far more democratic and less a global threat (actually its NO global threat) than U.S. boon allies Israel and Saudi Arabia. Which brings us back to Yemen. The utter destruction of Yemen, poorest Arab country in the world, and now one with the largest Cholera outbreak in history, posed no threat to ANYONE. Certainly not to the United States. Are we to believe the House of Saud is worth supporting? They behead homosexuals and witches in Saudi Arabia. The leader of KSA is a 32 year old psychopath named Mohammed Bin Salman. Someone please explain the U.S. support for this country?

Or Venezuela. The U.S. has waged various campaigns against this sovereign nation for over a decade now. A democracy. But a disobedient one. Where is the outcry? When people are going on about Harvey Weinstein, a troglodyte movie producer that literally everyone knew was a serial abuser, I wonder that the women of Venezuela seem not to count. Or of Libya, or Haiti, or Puerto Rico, or hell, the women of Houston right now. Poor women. Ah, but that is class again. Now perhaps the Weinstein affair will yield good results and some form of collective protection and maybe even unionizing will take place to limit the power of rich white men. I doubt it, but maybe. Still, given that the liberal class today applaud the idea of making it OK for women to bomb defenseless villages in Afghanistan or Iraq or Yemen, just like men, and given that most of these horrified by Weinstein were and are solidly behind Hillary Clinton and the DNC, and laud adulation on figures like Maddie Albright, it seems hard to imagine.

David Rosen:

Sexual abuse and violence in the U.S. is as old as the country. America’s patriarchal culture long legitimized sexual abuse and violence toward women — and children — whether conducted at the workplace, at home, a nightclub or on a deserted street. During the nation’s earliest days, the custom of sexual abuse and violence was legitimized through the notion of “chastisement.” This was a feature of Anglo-American common law that recognized the husband as master of “his” household and, thus, permitted him to subject “his” wife to corporal punishment, including rape, so long as he did not inflict permanent injury upon her. Sexual abuse was institutionalized in the rape of African and later African-American female slaves. As the legal scholar Adrienne Davis notes, “U.S. slavery compelled enslaved black women to labor in three markets – productive, reproductive, and slavery – crucial to the political economy.”

One need only note the sexual violence that takes place in the U.S. military (See Kirby Dick’s The Invisible War). But that is not the military you see in this season’s TV shows such as SEAL Team or Valor or The Brave. The current Tom Cruise film American Made is a sort of comedy about Barry Seal who worked as a pilot for the CIA, and with various cartels in South America. Yeah, nothing funnier than squashing a socialist government like in Nicaragua. There is not a single Spanish speaking character who is not either a drunk, a sadist, or just incompetent. This stunningly racist revisionism was called “jaunty and bouncy” by the Hollywood Reporter.

The liberal class will always side with the status quo. Always. They do not care if the status quo is fascist. And its suits them much more to lay out bromides about male abuse of women, as long as this doesn’t mean having to untangle the complexity of women in unfamiliar non tourist visited nations like Yemen or Libya or Honduras. Just like the fact that U.S. domestic police departments murdered over a thousand black men in 2015. And continue to do so, along with increasing numbers of black women. That’s just not a jaunty bouncy story, I guess. Obama has never been comfortable talking about or to black people. He did manage to scold Colin Kaepernick recently though, about the pain he, Kaepernick, might be causing. The pain of white billionaire sports team owners I guess. The Uncle Tomism of what Glen Ford called black misleadership has never been greater. And that’s another crime we can lay, largely, at the feet of Barack Obama.

The U.S. House voted unanimously to sanction Iran and North Korea, an absurdity and a crime, and yet one that barely registered on the media Richter scale. What has Iran or North Korea ever done to hurt anyone in the United States? It is Saudi Arabia and Israel that fear a democratic nation like Iran and the influence they wield in the region. Iran is accused of fomenting instability but evidence is never given. Russia is said to control U.S. public opinion, but evidence is never given. The U.S. doesn’t even bother to really try and make claims about Venzeuela, because its just part of inherited wisdom that they are *bad*. Like Castro was bad, like Gadaffi, like Aristide, like anyone exhibiting independence. The world according to media entertainment is made up of bad guys and good guys. Mike Pompeo, head of the CIA, recently stated that his agency would become a “much more vicious agency” in fighting its enemies. Its actually hard to imagine what that might look like given CIA history. More vicious than rendition, drone killing and black site torture? Remember it was the U.S. and its School of the Americas that trained those death squads in Central America. Hollywood makes comedies about this.

In any event nobody in Hollywood complains. Just as none of the actresses assaulted by Weinstein (and countless others) said anything lest they lose career opportunities. Just as nobody complains about the racism and demonizing of Muslims or Serbs or North Koreans or Russians lest they not get the job. Coercion is silent and a given. It is also absolute. Most actors and directors simply don’t think about it, and most know little beyond what they hear on corporate news or read in the NYTimes. But I understand. People have to eat, have to feed their families. The real problem is that power is ever more consolidated. Distribution of films is monopolized. And for most Americans, foreign policy remains a giant black hole about which they know very little. Tell someone Milosovic was actually a good guy and they will laugh at you (this still happens on the left, too, rather depressingly). Tell them Russia is not threatening the U.S. or Europe, and they will laugh at you. Try to explain what Imperialism is and means, and you get that bored look of irritation. A good rule of thumb is if the U.S. targets a country or leader, then its worth questioning the western generated propagated propaganda in mainstream media about said country or leader (think Syria, Gadaffi, Aristide, Milosovic, Iran, North Korea). The U.S. does not go after countries who welcome western capital.

One of the things I’ve noticed about Hollywood film is the extraordinary amount of self pity from most characters. Self pity, entitlement, and sarcasm. The people who produce and make film and TV today, by and large, tacitly censor themselves. Some don’t have to, of course. But there is a general group think at work. And it extends to the way characters are written. The problems of affluent white people is the template here. Few examine the wider world, and mostly when they do it is seen as a world of threat and menace. An uncivilized place in need of guidance from the civilized white West (The Lost City of Z comes to mind, which made all the approved anti colonial notes while still creating a colonial narrative anyway.). But it is even more narrow than that. Everything resembles a studio; political discussions, even if they take place in outer space, resemble studio executives discussing opening weekend profits, or Neilson ratings. And since Hollywood itself ever more resembles Wall Street, or some corporate headquarters, that is increasingly what the world looks like. It is a profound loss of imagination. Westerns look and sound the same as melodramas set in Santa Monica or New York. Fantasy worlds resemble corporate headquarters or corporate motivational weekends. It is a world created by writers under thirty, largely, and certainly under forty. These are worlds created by people who themselves know very little of the world. They know even less about having to work for a living. The entire universe of film is absent any class awareness. History is simplified the better to appeal to a wider audience. Everything feels and sounds the same. And it is stultifying. There are films and TV from Europe, even from the U.K. that have merit, have heterogeneous sensibilities, but not from Hollywood. Like White House press conferences, the idea is to stay on message. Black characters sound white (or are given caricature *black* dialect and dialogue), brown characters sound white (or are given caricature barrio dialects), and Muslims sound dangerous and devious. Asians seem lifted from Fu Manchu serials or Charlie Chan. Strange when I hear people make fun of ethnic cliches from the 1940s, because it is really no different today (and check the recent TV incarnation of the venerable Star Trek franchise where the Klingon villains are very dark, live in dark spaceships and utter a guttural invented language all of which suggests something oddly racist and like nothing so much as colonial portraits of savages from darkest Africa).

Fixation on Trump’s crimes distracts from a system in which crime is a built-in factor. Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump. They are only the figureheads that carry water for the system. And the system is the property of the ruling class. People vote as if it crucially matters, and they vote for who they like. Not for policy because mostly they have no idea of policy. Trump is an obvious target, but that’s the problem in a sense. America didn’t become racist and violent overnight. The forces of social unrest have been building for decades. Trump was inevitable. His lack of basic literacy mirrors the nation he nominally heads, and his vulgarity mirrors the vulgarity of America, as does his misogyny and racism. The same advisors are in place and if Hillary had won, those openly fascist thugs applauding Trump would still be committing hate crimes. Has Trump empowered them? To a degree, yes. But an HRC win would likely have provided motivation of a different sort and the same violence would be taking place. You cannot sustain, as a country, this level of inequality. And as more super hurricanes descend on us, as the bio-sphere collapses, none of this may end up mattering. There is something disturbing, actually, about the relentless attacks on Trump. Its like beating up a special needs kid. Where was this hatred and outrage before? I mean Trump’s America, a term I hear a lot, is just America. We have over 2 million people in prison in the U.S. Far and away leaders in the world. Infant mortality however puts the U.S. between 26th and 51st, depending on who is counting. There is no Universal Heath Care, no union protection for workers, no maternity leave, no free education. What is there to feel so special about, exactly? Trump was very popular on his moronic reality TV show. I’m guessing more than few now outraged by this buffoonish reactionary watched that show. I mean it did last fifteen years I believe. Who did they think he was? There is nothing wrong with identifying the crimes of Trump’s administration. But there is something deeply wrong in not recognizing it as a continuation of prevailing policy. Yes, it is worse in many areas. The environment for one. But then again, 47% of the world’s pollution is caused by the military. And the U.S. has a military bigger than the next ten largest militaries in the world. And every president since the first Bush has increased the military budget. The nightmare did not begin with the swearing in of Donald Trump. But nobody likes him. They liked Obama. And that is why he was able to do so much harm. Trump is dangerous not because of what he thinks (he mostly doesn’t) but because of his ignorance and weakness (and fear). And that weakness generated his welcoming hand to the Pentagon. Foreign policy is really in the hands of a man nicknamed ‘Mad Dog’. One cannot blame this catastrophic situation on one man. This is the creation of American history.

NWOD

Errh, why would you post an entire article? First off I’m not going to read it, and second, the internet works with links.

I am sure in any country you can find people who cannot find Iraq on a globe, incl. of course Russia.

AlexanderAmproz

Trolls didn’t read !

In the US NeoColonial Empire,
it’s the same disgusting Junk-Food and Education Culture,
but even more degenerated, if possible !

Russia ?
I didn’t know well enough, only have been twice in Moscow
where Peoples looks more Civilized than in New-York
or other US cities where I have been few times.
US Racism, Social discrimination, noisy arrogance
and Junk-Food aren’t my cup of tea, after two weeks I am tired
and I will have to live the Country.
In the Middle East, China, South East Asia, I can stay months.

Tell me what do you eat, I will tell you who you are !

NWOD

Tell me what do you eat, I will tell you who you are !

Bullocks. If you’re claim were true, you’d be able to tell what people eat from who they are. So I could show you any person and you could tell me their diet. Since nobody can do this, your claim is easily proven false.

US Racism

Spare me your Communist Liberal “racism” crap. And BTW Russians are far, far, far more racist than Americans. You should look on YouTube for some videos by blacks who visited Russia. You might learn something.

AlexanderAmproz

YouTube is good enough for brainwashed troll’s,
not for me used to see by myself,
and live a while if convenient…

I am as Communist as Scandinavia, Holland, Germany,
Italy, France or Switzerland are.

McCarthyism, segregation, Prohibition are illustrating
perfectly the Gun-Totting narrow perverted US idiosyncrasy.

Even the marvelous Charly Chaplin, among others,
had to run away

The Today US is more racist than the German were before WW2,
everything said by Hollywood, CNN, Fox News and al
can’t be trusted and is valueless…
===============================
Anglo-American Money Owners Organized World War II

by Valentin Katasonov

To mark the 70th anniversary of the Victory against Nazism, we publish a study of Valentin Katasonov on financing of the NSDAP and the rearmament of the Third Reich. The author deals with new documents that confirm the organization of the Second World War by US and UK Bankers, covered by President Franklin Roosevelt and Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, in the hope of destroying the USSR. This study raises new questions that will be addressed in a future article.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article187508.html
=================================

Seventy years of harassing political establishment and people of Europe

by Andrey Fomin

Contrary to appearances, the decision of the United States to investigate a possible Russian aid to anti-European parties is not intended to protect Europeans from foreign interference. This is quite the opposite. For 70 years, Washington controls the West European politics prohibiting all forms of genuine democracy.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article190171.html

NWOD

Yawn …. too boring, you put me to sleep.

Ricky Miller

Having never been to Russia I’m sure you again don’t know what you’re talking about. Russia’s second largest influx of immigrants are students from Africa who have stayed on in numbers, living in Russian cities and integrating into Russian culture and economy. There are plenty of YouTube videos of them showing what daily life is like, and such video’s peaked around the World Cup.

NWOD

You believe what you want to believe, Mr. Fantasy Propaganda Liar. It’s all nirvana in Russia, sure it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6biiyyXk3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqQZEPUisaM (you have to watch the whole thing, it has two parts)

Ricky Miller

That sucks. But 25,000 African students have chosen to remain in Russia after finishing college. And you said that racism in Russia is far, far worse than in the USA. How does this man’s experience compare to a half dozen black people being shot to death by a little white kid they accepted into Bible Study in South Carolina? His motive? The girl he likes had a black boyfriend. Incidents of violence against minorities in the USA is an epidemic. And racism is official as well. Take Harvard’s admission policies discriminating against Asian Americans, now the subject of a lawsuit. The U.S. is racism crazy and Americans have no room to lecture Russia about race, at all.

NWOD

“How does this man’s experience compare to a half dozen black people
being shot to death by a little white kid they accepted into Bible Study
in South Carolina?” One messed up kid. If there were 3 million blacks in Russia, you’d see more crimes against them too. The point is, in US, most people would have protected the black guy getting beat up by the two white guys. In that way it is less racist. Also in Russia, people throw bananas on a football pitch when blacks play. That doesn’t happen in US.

“Incidents of violence against minorities in the USA is an epidemic” – Yeah but the perpetrators are also minorities. As to inter-racial crimes, blacks are vastly more likely to attack, kill, rape or rob whites than vice versa. VASTLY. The difference is off the charts. Look up FBI crime stats if you are interested.

“Take Harvard’s admission policies discriminating against Asian Americans” – lol, there’s way more discrimination against whites and in favor of Jews. Jews are like 1/3rd of Harvard, b/c almost all the admission staff are Jews.

So, how many Chechens in the top Russian university? How many from Dagestan?

Maninder Singh Batra

Many Ingush and other Caucusus ethnicities are there in Physics and other Science Universities of Russia . Refer to Anatoly Karlin who is surprised on this trend and thinks Caucusus guys are rigging the exams to get to there .But then Poverty makes people work hard and Ingush are hard working. And many Dagestanis are MMA fighters or part of Russian army(30%) many of whom who are part of the Russian expeditionary forces in Syria and Libya . Chechens love to live off Kadyrov’s welfare state and love their local ways and many chechen teips despise Kafirs in General. A kafir like you would be dead meat and your girlfriend their sex slave.

NWOD

And a kafir like you would be a sex slave and then (raw) dead meat.

Maninder Singh Batra

Same with you .

NWOD

OK, so now maybe you can dispense with name-calling and insults and we can discuss topics rationally? I’m always happier to proceed in peace but rarely keep mum if someone attacks me. I’m like Russia and you like US – aggressive, attacking. BTW this is part of my talk about “hypocrisy”, everyone is aggressive and attacking when they can. On this site, I see it every time I come to post here, I make points on topic and suddenly 5-10 posters appear and make personal attacks. It is cowardly, wrong, aggressive. You have also done this. Please stop.

AlexanderAmproz

Yo

Ricky Miller

No way. Aleppo is a functional city. The parts of the city held by the government in total are realitively untouched and tens of thousands of refugees have returned there. One of the best videos during the Aleppo conflict was one released by the Syrian government which displayed life in government quarters of Aleppo during the reconquest of Jihadi street gang areas. People were going to school and work, swimming in co-ed pools, drinking at coffee bars, having a drink at a bar. You’ll look long and hard for any such video from Raqqa or Mosul. The only reason you’d make such an ignorant comment is because you live inside the American Corporate MSM bubble.

NWOD

Errrhhhh – the point is to look at the parts held by the rebels for comparison. I think that is so obvious you must be a troll to look at the parts held by the government. As all of Raqqa was held by ISIS so the obvious point was, compare areas where Syria/Russia booted out the opposition. Geez.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4058970/Aleppo-laid-bare-Shocking-map-shows-areas-city-suffered-100-cent-destruction-33-000-homes-wiped-out.html (see esp. the drone video)

Ricky Miller

The point is that the USA flattened Raqqa. There has been little to no rebuilding and as noted in a UN report the large scale of unburied human remains were presenting a health hazard to survivors living in the ruins. The reason for it is because the Kurds don’t care about an Arab city and the Kurds are America’s pets in Syria. They needed to eliminate ISIS in Raqqa quickly so the SDF could pivot South and race down the Euphrates. So brute force, Mission Accomplished. And dude, seriously you are coming to South Front posting a link to an anti -Russian hysterical UK newspaper? You’ll get laughed right into disgrace around here. SouthFront like other Alt news and sites exist because of the failures of places like the dailymail to responsibly cover stories from differing points of view.

Marko

” The point is that the USA flattened Raqqa. ”

Yes , and the other point is that turnaround should be fair play. After the way the State Dept and MSM ranted hysterically about Aleppo , when what happened there was no worse than what happened in Mosul and then Raqqa , well then , now’s about time for a little hysteria payback

Ricky Miller

Yep. And from our point of view it doesn’t have to be all that hysterical. There are a million Yeminis under threat of mass starvation resulting from the American/British/Saudi war being waged there. It’s a fact that the West screams about civilian casualties when anyone else takes military action to clean up their messes but they themselves have logs in their eyes about the mass victims they’ve left behind. A million civilians dead in Iraq. Just in Iraq. End of story.

NWOD

All politics is hypocrisy. Russia has certainly committed more than its share of war crimes and crimes against humanity as well.

Ricky Miller

Not even close. Where has Russia killed a million people, especially in a war based on false pretenses and without a UN Security Council Resolution? No where.

NWOD

Russia hasn’t had a UNSC resolution for any of its wars.

I’m not going through Russia history here. But the Korean War was started by USSR and N. Korea – is USSR Russia for you? Otherwise, you can ask Russia’s neighbors about how they feel about Russia. Balkans, Poland, Ukraine, Georgia, etc.

Ricky Miller

Those list of places are a long list of places that have deep seeded issues with Russia dating back centuries. The Polish Empire invaded Russia twice in the past. Like Ukraine, where many for centuries have resented the rise of Muscovy and still view it as a Slavic upstart. Ukraine nationalist circles even sides with the Nazi’s and manned the Western Wall on D-Day. These countries want to use the U.S. and NATO as vehicles to settle old scores and it says more about them than it does about Russia, especially the current Russian Federation. And the Korean War was started by North Korea all on her own, and for the North’s own reasons. Try not to just make shit up.

NWOD

Ukraine nationalist circles even sides with the Nazi’s

Indeed, against the Red Army, who wouldn’t? Especially since Germany promised them independence upon victory (probably not a promise Germany would have kept but it seems Bandera believed them, until he didn’t and Germans put him in a concentration camp).

Frankly, Poland is mostly mad about Russian occupation for 46 years. Ukraine is also very mad about that. So are the Balkans. It wasn’t just occupation, either, it was Russification, boy, that really pissed people off! Talk about genocide! Yeah, Russia has done many terrible things. Deny it all you want, nobody cares what you (or I) think. But you might find accepting reality is a better way to proceed.

Ricky Miller

Russia has never occupied the Balkans. There you go making shit up again. There is resentment about the Cold War, surely. But that only scratches the surface of the conflict. It is far older and deeper than that and Poland wants to magnify the current threat to stir up trouble and settle scores that have nothing to do with the current International order as provided for by International agreements. Poland started this along with Lithuania in the 1200’s and got their butt kicked on a frozen lake outside of Pskov. After continuing to have said butts kicked for centuries they’ve all latched on to the Russian boogey man myth and any outside power who comes along that might be used for payback. Gustavus Adolphus and the Swedish Empire. Napoleon. Nazi Reich. And now NATO/USA. It’s an old story and will end the same way.

NWOD

Oops, my bad, meant Baltics. But, Russia also occupied Bulgaria and Romania.

You have obviously never been to Poland. You have not the slightest clue what you are talking about.

Ricky Miller

Never been, not going. But I do know that Poland tried to conquer Russia twice and once dressed up a pretender to the throne and sent him to rule Russia and invite the Poles in. A Polish armed force penetrated all the way to Vologda before people realized the new Czar was working against Russia’s interests, deposed him and kicked the Poles out. Both the Polish and Lithuanian Empires had designs on Russia’s vast resource base and dreampt often of holding all the lands between the two seas: Baltic and Black. This conflict and tension today has nothing to do with the character of the Russian Federation but it is rehashed ambition from the losers of the past.

NWOD

Well I’ve been a number of times. I can assure you the hatred for Russia is almost exclusively based on the Soviet WW II and post-WW II occupations. Nobody alive now cares about 1200.

Ricky Miller

Additionally, bulgaria and Romania were a part of the Cold War Soviet bloc because they joined the Axis Powers in war with the Soviet Union. The first stage in the counteroffensive at Stalingrad was an assault on a Romanian Army guarding Germany’s Sixth Army flank. The spoils of war.

NWOD

Exactly, occupied. You claimed they weren’t.

Turbofan

The Korean War was not started by North Korea. Have some decency and do the necessary research.

NWOD

Yes, it was. Without question. You have some decency and do research.

Turbofan

So we are going with your high school history lesson. The one that says that Iraq had WMDs in 2003.

NWOD

I see you take great pleasure in being an asshole. Seems like everyone on Southfront is like this. It is easy to understand why all of Russia’s neighbors hate Russia.

Turbofan

Idiot i am from the Caribbean ..Not Russia.. Secondly people dont hate Russia. Western installed puppets governments in these countries do the bidding of America to foment Russia hatred in these countries.. Try to keep up..

NWOD

Erhh, you should get out of the Caribbean then, idiot. Because in fact all of the surrounding countries hate Russia. Profoundly. And they aren’t “Western installed puppet governments”, hahahahahaha! You’re too much, go pick a coconut.

Maninder Singh Batra

Mongolia,Central Asia,China ,North Korea ,Armenia,Turkey ,Greece,Belarus, LNR/LPR(donetsk republics) ,South Ossetia,Abkhazia support Russia.

Poland,Western Junta ruled Ukraine,Baltic republics,Georgia despise it and have the NATO megaphone fake news to enhance the same.

Moldavia,Finland,Sweden,Norway,Azerbaijan are wary and neutral .

Next time don’t make BS claim that all Russia’s neighbors hate it.

NWOD

Yes, I was mainly talking about the Europe side. Turkey relations are more of a cold war – not so long ago Turkey shot down a Russian jet, if you remember. Greece is not a neighbor. Belarus is the exception. As to “Junta”, lol, Ukrainians really hate Russia now.

Maninder Singh Batra

Except that Putin and Dugin warned Erdogan of the coming coup and helped
the Lawful govt at a critical time when General Votel was organizing
the coup via incirlik base. As for Ukraine junta ,don’t worry . A
properly placed blow to the petrodollar will be sufficient to shut down the
NATO propaganda megaphone and will reduce that hate.

NWOD

As to warning Erdogan: that is an unconfirmed rumor. Or if there is confirmation, can you share a link please? In any case Russia and Turkey are hardly good friends, they are managing to avoid direct conflict in Syria but it’s hardly an example of teamwork. I think USSR and UK/US got along better in WW III :).

As to Ukraine reconciling with Russia, inshallah! But it will take both sides. Biggest problem on Russian side is this great felling of supremacy over Ukraine and Ukrainians (“little brother”, etc.), it’s very condescending, hopefully Russians can accept Ukrainians as equals and Ukraine the same. It’s not a NATO megaphone issue at all. I lived many years in Ukraine, I understand the conflict very very well, and NATO is a symptom, not a cause. A much bigger cause are the Jews in Ukraine, who are stoking a great deal of the hatred, that is for sure, much much much much more so than NATO.

In general I would say Jews are Russias’s Biggest enemy. Despite Russia worshiping them, lol. Bolsheviks were Jewish destruction of tsarist Russia and Christianity; the Yeltsin years austerity was to a great extent Jews stealing all of Russian wealth (the “Western advisors” for economic “liberalization” which sent all of Russia’s wealth into hands of Jew oligarchs during the 90s were almost all Jews, I would not call them Americans.). Now in the “Western press” there is a lot of “Russophobia” but this press is heavily controlled by Jews and they stoke up a lot of hatred toward Russia in the “West”. Ukrainian media is almost all in the hands of Ukrainian Jews and they are extremely anti-Russian.

Maninder Singh Batra

Except that before the coup ,the talk was there from Joaquin Flores. And on the bolsheviks ,yes they were jewish and killed tens of millions in the Russian civil war .But then Stalin killed a large no. of them ,so the jews demonized him ,sent Hitler after him and ultimately assassinated him.

Stalin was no doubt a psychopath like Erdogan who fell on the wrong side of the Rothschild as he went against their plans ( international revolution,ban on abortion,restoring cossacks as power) but nowhere as bloody as Trotsky -Lenin combine .

As Turkey it wants to buy s-400,su-57 ,offering incirlik to Russia. https://www.geopolitica.ru/en/article/turkeys-incirlik-offer-russia-ankaras-july-4-present-washington

russians worship the social welfare and economic stability of stalin era which was a symbol of communism not the bolsheviks itself.

Ricky Miller

Russia took Crimea after the peninsula’s Russian speaking majority were both disenfranchised and threatened. Casualties? Two people. Russia defended South Ossetia after Georgia attacked and several hundred were killed in the conflict at the receiving end of Russian weapons. Nothing at all close to the totals in Iraq, Syria or even Libya where a Western led intervention has led to hundreds of thousands of casualties and the arrival of open air slave markets. Russia has actually showed remarkable restraint in the post cold war lawless era, so has committed far fewer a “share” of crimes of war, especially when compared to the USA.

NWOD

Crimea threatened? Sorry, not buying that. There are plenty of largely Russia places in Ukraine, like Odessa, Mariupol, Kharkov, Sumy, etc. (all places I have visited or lived) where nobody has been “disenfranchised”. There was one hooligan affair in Odessa, it’s true, but some of my Russian friends in Odessa blamed the Communists for that (I don’t agree but just to say, it was not an ethnic thing, it was an anti-Communist thing at the trade union house).

Of course US has been the big bad boy since collapse of USSR. But, if US had collapsed, I have no doubt USSR would have been the big bad boy. The more powerful are always the ones starting the wars.

Ricky Miller

You are a liar. You have never been to Russia or Ukraine. You show little understanding of the complexity or tenor of life in that part of the world and your trolling on a pro-Russia website reveals you for who and what you are. The little affair you mention in Odessa was the mass killing of dozens of ethnic Russians and came at the long end of assaults which began with a right sector ambush of Russians coming home to Crimea on buses after leaving pro-government rallies in Kiev. Eight were killed and three buses torched. Threats were being made inside Crimea from rightists about Russian language schools and people knowing “their place.” The Crimean parliament asked Russia for help. Period. End of story.

NWOD

I’ve been to both Russia and Ukraine, so, in fact, you are wrong again. I think that makes it 100% of the time now, lol.

Me trolling? LOL, I’m not trolling at all. Just not buying your BS. I know you are a snowflake liar who loves the echo chamber and groupthink. The website itself actually has pretty good articles, not nearly as extreme as some of the commenters here, like yourself.

mass killing of dozens of ethnic Russians

It was also ethnic Ukrainians. Not that truth matters to you. And I didn’t call it “little”. Another lie by you.

Threats were being made inside Crimea from rightists about Russian language schools

Sure, it started as a sort of revolution, that usually brings some violence and changes. There were some more radical elements, particularly Right Sector. But compared to Bolsheviks they were quite peaceful, wouldn’t you say? Bolsheviks killed, what, 20 million counter-revolutionairies for having two pots instead of just one, lol, or for being Christian. Most of the dead are in Donbass, but I think if Russians (like Girkin/Strelkov) hadn’t gotten involved those people would have pretty much all lived. Maybe they would have learned Ukrainian in school instead of Russia but so what, in Moscow you learn Russian in school even if you are Ukrainian. There is a state language.

Ricky Miller

I refuse to hold Russia and all Russians, especially a century later, responsible for the Bolsheviks. It was something inflicted on the Russian body politic that had to be endured internally as well. The current Ukrainian government came to power in a coup and in a nationalist frenzy moved to make life miserable for the Russian minority. Those who could got away and some took thier territory with them. BTW, Ukraine is now moving on to make other minorities miserable too as witnessed in the ongoing dust up with Hungary. And Poroshenko’s criminal state is down to it’s last 800$million U.S. and begging for release of IMF funds. It couldn’t happen to a worse coup-monging fascist failed state. Good riddance and soon. Hello Julia..

NWOD

in a nationalist frenzy moved to make life miserable for the Russian minority

Yes there was some blowback for, what, 70 years of occupation? Longer, depending on how you count. Again, it certainly was milder than what the Bolsheviks did to Ukraine in the 1920s and 30s. You might want to forget about that but Ukrainians sure haven’t.

And life wasn’t that miserable for the minority. I had a number of Russian friends in Odessa, most of their misery was caused by the economic collapse, and none that I can think of it that was caused by anti-Russian discrimination. They still speak Russian in Odessa, don’t worry :).

Ukraine fascist? I don’t think so. Nope, not at all. It is just a people who have been subject to various empires for centuries if not millenia trying to establish their own identity.

Frankly, as a conservative in US I am faced with similar issues. I don’t support all this gay marriage, transgender bathroom, massive immigration, etc., but I am forced to live with it. I am “oppressed”. But that does not make US fascist. It’s certainly an Empire but that’s another issue.

Ricky Miller

No, the U.S. is led by Corporate control freaks. Not sure but I think it’s an infection far harder to toss off than facism. And when Ukranians are marching in honor of Nazi sympathizers and restricting minority rights including minorites from Hungary too it’s a hard case to argue that they’re not at least facist lite.

Maninder Singh Batra

conservative ? lol ,more like a NSA sockpuppet.

NWOD

Wow, you really are incredibly stupid.

Maninder Singh Batra

says the sockpuppet lol.

Maninder Singh Batra

Says the guy who cites CNN fake news as source. lol.

NWOD

Whatever, dude. No news source is 100% and they were right in that article. I know it’s hard for a simple mind to comprehend nuance. What’s your Oracle of Truth news source, genius?

Maninder Singh Batra

CNN fake news is right. Lol .That is the worst joke I have read today.

peacelover

Ur last paragraph makes lot of sense. I think if it is China at US present position it would be worsen cruelty. But not Russia because Russians are naturally not so bad guys at all.

NWOD

Wasn’t flattened any more than Aleppo. https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/20/middleeast/raqqa-syria-isis-total-liberation/index.html

As to reconstruction, that’s a separate issue. My only point was Syrians/Russians are also destroying cities. Obviously US is not rebuilding Raqqa while Assad is in power. Russia did not rebuilding totally destroyed Grozny until they got their guy in power either. That’s the way war works, bud.

Ricky Miller

A war the U.S. started, in conspiracy with Sunni gulf states. To violate the UN Charter, encourage revolt on the territory of a founding state of the United Nations and smuggle weapons and money and new Toyota trucks to Islamists. And President Assad isn’t going anywhere. If an election for President were held in Syria tomorrow, Assad wins. And not by a little. And surely you know I’m not your bud.

NWOD

Now you’re changing the topic, good, at least you admit you were wrong.

As to Syrian elections, I’m sure you know who would win as you’ve interviewed 3 million Syrians. LOL. Liar liar pants on fire :).

Ricky Miller

I’m not wrong about it at all. I am not going to respond to CNN articles and videos. It’s fake news approved by the CIA. And I’m not on Breitbart or any other American Exceptional webpage trolling you and your buddies while you’re talking about how great America is and who to assault next. You came to South Front to try and take something from people here, a place to congregate and therapy together about American inspired and led threats to the World. You made it your mission to take from others; how American.

NWOD

I am not going to respond to CNN articles and videos. It’s fake news approved by the CIA.

LOL, so show me your pictures that show Raqqa more destroyed than Aleppo. Is that sort of like the blacks who are welcomed into Russia – another lie you spread like butter?

while you’re talking about how great America is and who to assault next.

Your lies never end, do they? Or maybe you can show me where I wrote that? You have a real difficulty with the truth, I see. It’s almost a complete stranger to you.

You came to South Front to try and take something from people here

Poor snowflake. You want your safespace back? Just block me. But there are lots and lots of lies and liars here, so what if I point it out sometimes? Go and keep dreaming about your black nirvana in Russia and how Syria/Russia don’t hurt a fly in Syria. LOL. Delusional much?

Ricky Miller

Russia is acting in accordance to an agreement with the lawful government in Syria. The USA is not. One side is existing within the International security framework and the other is not. You can pretend all you want but it doesn’t change reality. Only one side admits to creating quagmires until they get what they want and arms al-Qaeda, the other does not. We all know which side it is that you rationalize for, along with CNN and the dailymail, et all.

NWOD

I’m not rationalizing US occupation of Syria. I’m disagreeing with you on specific points. Pay attention. You keep fabricating positions I have not taken. It’s really sad you feel the need to do that. I notice that is a pattern here on SouthFront comments.

Ricky Miller

Oh yes, you’re disagreeing with the factual notion that Aleppo is livable and Raqqa is not. Because you want to repeat the MSM lie of moral equivalency between Russia and Syria’s operation to free the Jihadist areas of Aleppo with the American razing to the ground of Raqqa in support of a different, if less offensive illegal insurgency. I understand your take on it, disagree with you, I reject your sources and reasoning and state that I am grateful that Aleppo is free and I feel for the people of Raqqa who suffer on long after their American led “rescue.”

NWOD

Aleppo first of all was a smaller area, and second it is being rebuilt by Syria. So you have again changed the topic, which was, the scale of destruction, Clearly US is not rebuilding Raqqa, we can at least agree on that.

There is moral equivalency in terms of the violence to eliminate the jihadists. In fact in some cases Russia was more brutal than US – e.g. when bombing the ISIS oil convoys, US distributed leaflets warning the drivers, which many Russians laughed about while Russia just bombed the trucks. Well the drives are civilians and bombing their trucks is a war crime (targeting of civilians).

BTW CNN is not my “source”, I hate CNN, it was just first place I found pictures of Raqqa. I do believe those are pictures of Raqqa showing the destruction, and lack thereof, there, as they are consistent with other reports which I trust but didn’t want to spend more time finding.

I’m sure the relatives of the dead in Aleppo may not be as grateful as you. And maybe many Ukrainians would be happy if Ukraine leveled Donbass to free the area from “Russian terrorists”, which is how they view it. I guess that’s all part of the partisanship, huh?

Ricky Miller

Oh, Ukraine will try. And fail. The way forward in the Donbass is clear. The Minsk agreement requires that Ukraine pass the regions autonomy law. They refuse to do so. If the Donbass and Luhansk are not going to be part of the Russian Federation than the people there are going to insist on community safety and freedom from government and right sector reprisals. End of story and easy to understand. It comes down to the safety of their children, in the end. This conflict will end when Poroshenko is out and Timoshenko returns again, and executes a mandate to swallow pride and fufill the agreement. And Russia and Syria provided safe corridors for people to escape to. And if bombing ISIS trucks is a war crime (laughable) than when are the war crimes trials going to start for all the weddings bombed by American drones in four countries now?

NWOD

Yes, Ukraine does not want to accept that Russia has invaded its territory and is supporting a civil war there. Exactly what you accuse the US of doing in Syria. But you are of course a 100% apologist for Russia, you will pick Russia’s side on everything, no matter how wrong. Me, I can admit US is wrong both in Ukraine and in Syria. But that does not make Russia right. Except you cannot admit it. You do not care about truth, or suffering, or anything you pretend to care about, you only care about Russia “winning”.

Anyway, have to run.

Ricky Miller

Oh no. There is no winning in the Donbass. And I understand Russia’s support there without actually agreeing with it. There is some question as to what would happen in both Luhansk and Donetsk if there were a Crimea type referendum. Not a clear cut case at all. What I am against is Russia being villified for actions that are mostly defensive and in support of an International system where people actually uphold their treaty obligations, to the letter. You know, not overthrowing governments, plotting regime changes, bombing people back to the Stone Age or pretending that there is an International Order while they violare the UN Charter and China and Russia’s legal right to have a say in what goes down via the UNSC.

peacelover

Excellent debate.Ur stance is a representative of all the world oppressed people.

Ricky Miller

Thank you. It was the most lonely debate I’ve ever endured. I am close to concluding that digital life is hardly worth it. I’m thinking I need to go to Syria for a year and help rebuild a building, to try and help right where my wicked country has wronged. Planning and resources are underway. I appreciate your upvotes.

peacelover

My wicked country?? U from Russia or USA? Love to see a person having so love and sympathy for fellow humans and humanity. Thanks a lot brother!

Ricky Miller

Oh sadly and shamefully I’m American. I do have a t-shirt though that says ” I wish i’d been born in Magnitogorsk.” And I do.

peacelover

God bless you. You have a real sympathetic heart.I think many Americans are actually reasonable, peace loving people and not bloodthirsty. I like you and your way of thinking. Best wishes for you from Pakistan. I hope many and many people will be loving and working for the peace throughout this mother planet Earth.

Ricky Miller

Thank you. I wish you well. We can always hope.

S Melanson

It is worth it and the forces you despise are retreating slowly but surely. It may not seem like it, but the world is becoming a better place.

We do not need to find heaven as heaven has always been within reach. You enter heaven by creating heaven on earth. This requires us manifesting changes that will end this hell on earth which is no easy task but progress has been made

Ronald

You say you have found pictures of Raqqa, and on CNN !
I have seen no pictures of Raqqa on any news outlet, back that up.

NWOD

I put a link, can you click?

Ronald

I see no link !

NWOD

Search for CNN on this page and you fill find it!

Turbofan

“There is moral equivalency in terms of the violence to eliminate the jihadists. In fact in some cases Russia was more brutal than US – e.g. when bombing the ISIS oil convoys, US distributed leaflets warning the drivers, which many Russians laughed about while Russia just bombed the trucks. Well the drives are civilians and bombing their trucks is a war crime (targeting of civilians).”

Firstly the US never bombed ISIS oil convoys. These things roamed across the Turkish border until the Russians came in.Secondly these arent drivers. A driver driving known stolen oil from one country into another isnt just a driver but an accomplice to a crime. Dropping leaflets to ISIS “drivers” is like telephoning ISIS and telling them ” hey I have discovered your location and will be bombing in the next 30 minutes”..How dumb is that…

NWOD

Firstly the US never bombed ISIS oil convoys.

You are 100% wrong. Here’s the pamphlets incident: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3331503/US-military-drops-leaflets-warning-civilian-truck-drivers-45-minutes-airstrike.html

A driver driving known stolen oil from one country into another isnt just a driver but an accomplice to a crime.

So no civilians doing a job for the local government, even if it is an occupation government, are legitimate war targets? Wow, you are a disgusting human being. And a war criminal. And here we are told Russia feels sorry for those under terrorist occupation.

How dumb is that.

Spoken like a true war criminal!

Turbofan

“So no civilians doing a job for the local government, even if it is an occupation government, are legitimate war targets”.

Ok..So let me get that straight..ISIS in you estimation was local government..So the NAZI concentration camp guards were just doing their jobs right?A legitimate civilian police force?Then why the f*ck were they tried and are still being tried?

Are you an idiot?

NWOD

“ISIS in you estimation was local government.” Yes, it was a caliphate. Are you following the news? It’s not unlike the Saudi government. Or maybe that’s not a government to you either and you can kill all the civilians in Saudi Arabia? Is that your point? Because you don’t like the government you can kill the civilians?

“Are you an idiot?” Do you feel the need to insult because you are so stupid?

Turbofan

No idiot the insult started when you compared me to a war criminal..what happened.. You have no defense

NWOD

Wrong, idiot, you were advocating for war crimes so that makes you a war criminal. It’s stating a fact, not insulting.

Turbofan

So why were the NAZi concentration camp guards and doctors prosecute?

NWOD

Irrelevant. You are claiming it would be OK to bomb the concentration camp inmates because you don’t like the guards. That’s why I used “war criminal”.

Nobody in war likes the other side’s government. That doesn’t make killing civilians OK. You’d think this is a difficult concept? WTF is wrong with you? So busy being an apologist your brain is frozen?

Turbofan

When you dont have a defense you trying to make it appear that you dont understand the point being made so let me ask again.
If ISIS “drivers’ are civilians that shouldn’t be harmed, then were were German concentration camp guards and doctors prosecuted by the Americans? Or do you simply attribute the term civilian to those doing you dirty work?

NWOD

The truck drivers were like the camp inmates. They were forced to work for ISIS. Just like Jews in Auschwitz were forced to work for Germans. If it’s OK to bomb the Syrians working for ISIS, then it would also be OK to bomb the Poles or Jews working for Germans. Is that your argument? That any civilian working for the government is a valid target? Yes, it is, and that’s why you are a war criminal.

Turbofan

No the drivers were not being forced to drive. Being a driver isn’t rocket science. Literally anybody could have driven these trucks. These “drivers” were not being forced. These were ISIS members

NWOD

Of course they weren’t “ISIS members”. Why would ISIS drive commercial trucks? In Russia, do military drive all your commercial trucks there? That’s just stupid. Civilians drive trucks, takes no special skill.

But certainly when Russia started bombing the trucks, at this point it’s safe to assume people were forced to drive them. Because Russia like war criminal gives no warning, just bombs trucks.

Ricky Miller

I’ll consider your point of view legitimate when the people who bombed bridges and television stations in Serbia are brought to the dock to face war crimes charges. And so on. I could list American attacks on civilian infrastructure and personnel all day long.

NWOD

Bridges are a valid target. TV stations, there are arguments on those if used for war propaganda – in any case every side targets those things in war. In the Georgian war, Russia targeted the Tbilisi International Airport. In Syria Russia has targeted schools and hospitals, bridges and roads, all the same stuff.

Oh – and civilian truck drivers. Let’s not forget :).

Turbofan

And no the US never bombed ISIS oil convoys before Russia stepped into the war.Notice how the article is dated November 2015, 2 months after the Russians intervened and had started destroying these convoys. Remember at the beginning how the the Americans were claiming targets destroyed by the Russians as having been destroyed by them?

NWOD

“And no the US never bombed ISIS oil convoys before Russia stepped into the war.” Granted. But I never claimed that.

Turbofan

Yes you implied that by never giving a timeline..

NWOD

Liar, where?

Turbofan

You implied the US was destroying oil convoys from the inception when you never gave a timeline. Try to keep up. Secondly are you saying that the US only started to see these mile long oil convoys only after Russia intervened?

What a joker

NWOD

I didn’t imply any such thing. You are a liar.

Turbofan

LOL.. You did. Just like you are implying that NAZI camp guards were legitimate civilians..

NWOD

I suppose I should correct my statement: either you are a liar, or just stupid. Or both. From that statement, I would also add “troll” as a possibility. So, you are one or more of: stupid, liar, troll.

Turbofan

Is that how you always react when people call you out for your lies?

NWOD

No, that’s how I sometimes react to a liar, troll and/or idiot.

Which seems to be almost everyone on Southfront comment section that has engaged me in the last week, lol.

The fact is I don’t lie. But you sure do! A habitual liar at that.

Ricky Miller

He is seriously defending the Human rights of ISIS truck driving smugglers. Wow. And again citing the Russophobic UK presstitutes. Again, just wow. It’s onky okay for you, NWOD, because the Jihadi street gangs aren’t lording over your neighborhood, where your loved ones live, stealing your resources to pay for more weapons.

NWOD

Yes, indeed. I thought Syrian/Russian governments claimed to care about civilians in opposition-held areas? As long as they don’t have a job, or if they have one, they are helping ISIS and kill them? That is war criminal mentality. It violates the Geneva Convention, like Russia did when it bombed those trucks. War crimes.

“citing the Russophobic UK presstitutes” – blah blah, the article was on the pamphlets, it was widely reported at the time, even in Russian news (except Russians made fun of it, they couldn’t understand why US was not a war criminal like Russia). My are you close-minded and petty.

“the Jihadi street gangs aren’t lording over your neighborhood” — what does that have to do with anything? I would as soon live under ISIS as live in China or Saudi Arabia. I don’t see much difference. That doesn’t mean I think it’s OK to kill Chinese truck drivers.

“stealing your resources to pay for more weapons.” – stealing? That’s what governments do. You may not like the Caliphate but it was the government there at the time. They taxed, they provided security, they enforced the laws, they provided food and hospitals. Just because you want to label them “terrorists” does not make them that.

Here again you are showing your utter lack of integrity. There was no reason for Russia to commit these war crimes and bomb these trucks without warning. Yet you defend it, like a war criminal would. This has nothing to do with Russia “being on the defensive”. This is you being EVIL.

Ricky Miller

I support the bombing of ISIS truck drivers, so I’m evil. Got it. People who fight against Jihadi violence are the real bad guys in this war? As I said the other day you have a polluted mind. In China you could watch a soccer game. Talk on your phone to your girlfriend. Eat noodles with a meat broth. Watch tv or play video games. In ISIS territory any of those activities or more gets you a death sentence. Fuel storage and transport is a legitimate target of war otherwise American submariners who torpedoed a lot of civilian vessels in the Pacific should have hung for evil war crimes, you know sinking this Maru and that Maru carrying fuel and food to the Empire. You have bipolar intelligence, smart and stupid all at the same time. A sad combination.

NWOD

“In ISIS territory any of those activities or more gets you a death sentence.” That’s a bunch of BS. But Russia just kills them for having a job. That’s so much more civilized!

Your mind is not polluted, just evil. You have nothing on ISIS. Same mentality.

“Fuel storage and transport is a legitimate target of war”. Only fuel shipments for troops. Not civilian fuel shipments.

“American submariners who torpedoed a lot of civilian vessels in the Pacific” – uh, that part of the Geneva Conventions was not enacted until 1949. In any case, not sure to what civilians vessels you are referring.

You seem to be sad you are so evil and wrong so often. It’s within your power to change. You can make a fresh start. Christ will forgive you :).

Ricky Miller

German submariners incluxing their commander were charged with war crimes for attacking merchant ships traveling to and from the British Isles. The Germans subpoenaed American Pacific War commanders and in court proceedings lawyers for the German submariners asked specific questions like how Japanese merchant ships were targeted and were efforts made to distinguish between Japanese merchant ships carrying food and fuel for civilians as opposed to merchant traffic dedicated to the Imperial War machine. The Americans reposnded thusly: No, targeting of ships in Imperial convoys proceeded by methodology including the size of the target, it’s potential to carry volumes of supply to the enemy and tactical considerations like firing solutions and escape maneuvers. The Nuremberg Tribunal declined to convict stating in effect that individual commanders and commands cannot be expected to know and classify every individual targets ownership, cargo purpose and mission either in convoy or sailing alone. Thus, Syrian and Russian forces cannot reasonably be expected to know who is driving an individual ISIS truck engaged in pilfered oil trade, nor can Syrian and Russian commanders know how ISIS human resources managers (!) staff their trucking fleet. The oil enables warfare, benefits the enemy and is a legitimate target. It’s only in your own mind, without any legal precedent that Russian Aerospace Commanders or the Russian pilots are guilty of war crimes. Bring something better than that pathetic line of reasoning.

NWOD

Nuremberg was some ultra-hypocritical trial by the winners. It really does not prove anything, as the main war crimes of German (crimes against the peace), for which Germans were executed, are now consistently committed by the US and others, and nobody is even charged with those crimes. But, in point of fact, Doenitz was charged with violation of the Naval Protocol of 1936 to which Germany acceded related to unrestricted submarine warfare. He was not charged with violation of the 1946 Additional Protocols as those has not yet been agreed or even proposed. So your case is entirely irrelevant.

Therefore, your alleged analogy of not “knowing” who is driving individual trucks is entirely irrelevant. Stay on topic. The Additional Protocols contain a presumption that civilians are used. See Articles 52 and 57.

All civilians “enable warfare” and all civilian work will “benefit the enemy”. The whole point of the Additional Protocols was to prevent targeting of civilians based on that “logic”. But for some people, I guess, being apologist for war crimes comes naturally, and caring about war crimes is a thine of “patheticness”.

Ricky Miller

And yet, the precedent stands. And it is the United States in the drone and tomahawk era which has attacked civilian infrastructure and people, repeatedly. Literally there isn’t an outdoor wedding from the Hindu Kush straight through to Southern Arabia where wedding parties and guests are safe from drone fired American missiles. But here you are going right past that to Russian pilots being war criminals for firing on ISIS vehicles. Good luck with that viewpoint as it’s going to be a futile and lonely perch, with no legal standing.

NWOD

Targeting weddings, even more so than targeting civilian truckers, is clearly a war crime. But striking a wedding and targeting one are two different things. I actually don’t think US targets weddings, but rather they are “reckless” or “grossly negligent” in target validation. You’re certainly free to make the argument that targeting a terrorist’s home at night is a war crime since other family members are likely to be there but that’s not a clear line in the Geneva Convention, if you look at the legal nuances, though I’ve certainly made the case.

The truck convoy case is a clearer example of war crimes because there was not even a claim that the trucks were military targets or the drivers were terrorists or combatants. It was simply targeting the civilian economy and trade.

But since you will never ever ever admit that Russia can to anything wrong, you are just an apologist. For war crimes.

Ricky Miller

ISIS consists of mostly foreign fighters and are not legal combatants in any case as no country recognized ISIS as a state. But even besides that anyone driving a truck used to supply and provision a terrorist group is a conspirator to mass murder. Oh and President Putin just stated today that the ISIS formation in the South is holding some 700 hostages some of whom are Americans and Europeans. They are threatening to kill ten a day unless granted safe passage. You are way out on a limb here arguing that bombing ISIS assets are war crimes. Your argument as such represents for me nothing more than a MSM smokescreen to point the finger at Russia and shield America’s reputation from the light of actual war crimes.

NWOD

no country recognized ISIS as a state

I don’t think so either but they were recognized as the de facto governing authority by everyone, including Syria. Calling them “terrorists” is also quite disingenuous, they do not fit any reasonable definition of terrorist. Though if you also call Israel a terrorist state you might be at least consistent. People also call Taliban terrorists, which also makes no sense (though they also clearly engage in war crimes).

But even besides that anyone driving a truck used to supply and provision a terrorist group is a conspirator to mass murder.

“Terrorist group” is just cheap propaganda. To prove “conspirator” you have to prove intent and a bunch of other things. I think they were just truck drivers who needed a job to feed their families; they were working to provide food for their families and communities. Obviously you are not sympathetic to them. That does not mean they don’t deserve protections of the Geneva Accords. If a free election were held in Syria where ISIS was allowed to run freely and have media attention and the like they would likely get significant votes too. Like Taliban would in Afghanistan. I don’t think Communists ever won an election, did they? In fact I find a lot of similarities between Bolsheviks and ISIS, except Bolsheviks were far, far, far more brutal. I’m no fan of Communism but I also don’t think it’s OK to bomb all commercial trucks in Communist countries under the theory they are “abetting terrorism”.

As to what Putin claimed about hostages, I have no reason to believe him, nor has he provided enough information to judge what is happening or who is involved. It’s just rather general propaganda. In fact I would be quite surprised if ISIS were holding and executing US citizens and US said nothing about it; it’s possible but I’d certainly need actual evidence, not some hard-to-believe story from Putin.

Your argument as such represents for me nothing more than a MSM smokescreen to point the finger at Russia and shield America’s reputation from the light of actual war crimes.

LOL, you are 100% dedicated to justifying Russia’s war crimes, I can tell, and you will fabricate anything you can to try to divert attention from that. Including making spurious allegations against me. Everyone knows what happened with the trucks. Whether it is a crime or not has absolutely nothing to do with me. Trying to smear me just shows your primitive mentality, and your total disregard for truth. Smearing is what pathetic, evil people do.

Ricky Miller

You typing in bold doesn’t make me take you any more seriously. And I find your accusations against Russian pilots that they are war criminals for targeting ISIS to be sick. And your entire persistent argument seems like just a MSM/American invasion of an AltMedia platform aimed at the demonization of Russia, her government and her people. That point of view is all the rage across Western media and government, so your advancement of it here is hardly refreshing or new. Lastly the targeting of an ISIS tanker truck could be considered a war crime, academically but not legally if the aim was to kill the driver rather than targeting the fuel. Academically, it would be impossible in an adversarial setting, even a mock trial to establish that a pilot targeted the cab and not the tanker. Absent a confession.

NWOD

“You typing in bold doesn’t make me take you any more seriously.” It’s meant for emphasis. LOL, did you flunk first grade?

” I find your accusations against Russian pilots that they are war criminals for targeting ISIS to be sick.” This is the sign of a mad tyrant: accusing a criminal of a crime is “sick”, whereas murdering civilians is “honorable”. I think that sums up your morality pretty good so far.

“MSM invasion” And I guess you are also a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

Your attempt to split hairs over what you are targeting is irrelevant. Maybe if I blow up the car you are driving and then argue I was aiming for the car, not you, I am only guilty of property destruction, right?

I know your mentality. US is guilty of every possible crime that can be imagined against them, no matter how far-fetched, including that I am a CIA agent sent here to disrupt harmonious communications, but Russia is an angel that never does the slightest wrong, no matter how overwhelming the evidence. Did I sum that up right?

Ricky Miller

You came here not to debate but to berate. Whatever your motive the idea that fighting ISIS and targeting ISIS vehicles is tantamount to war crimes is a ridiculous argument and I reject it as BS. You are an ugly American and whatever your employ your goal is to disrupt a comments board of those who see and seek a different point of view to MSM baloney that Russia is bad and evil and America perfect. And my car in your scenario isn’t being used as a vehicle of commerce in support of a terrorist organization so any targeting of it would be a crime regardless any state of war or civil conflict. No way I ever accept your argument because I’ve paid attention as the United States of America has bombed and invaded one country after the next and violated any treaty they like.

Ricky Miller

And Russia standing up for herself or other countries doesn’t make Russia evil or bad. Just an annoyance to the USA hegemonists and their collaborators. And Russia’s real crime? Being an increasingly effective obstacle.

NWOD

The berating is always started by you and your fellow Russian supremacists. Every time someone walks outside your narrow line of Russian supremacism you rush to attack, to destroy. You are yourselves the evil US Empire you imagine – aggressive, destructive, intolerant, abrasive. Wanting to eliminate all you cannot control. You are a hypocrite. You do not hate injustice, you just want to be the ruler of it. Look in the mirror, and you see a monster. But you are also a little crybaby who crawls under momma’s skirt when your bullying ways aren’t successful. In general I have absolutely no respect for you. Just another SouthFront intolerant troll and attempted bully. What you project onto America, is what you see in your own soul.

Ricky Miller

You are beyond commenting on news articles here on SF. You are here to push an Americanized agenda and disrupt. It’s in fact the very definition of trolling.

Ricky Miller

And please feel free to go to Russia and tell people that Russian pilots who targeted ISIS fuel trucks are war criminals. Say it loud and proud. But be sure to have someone film what goes down next, big mouth.

Ricky Miller

I have yet to encounter a Russian supremacist here. Russia is defensive and assertive, not aggressive or reckless. Russia is asking for the USA to honor the treaties and agreements that have been signed, and beyond that for harassment and bullying to cease. Bullying like at the UN regarding the breast feeding resolution. The Trump Administration tried to threaten and punish Ecuador for sponsoring a resolution affirming breast feeding but the U.S. objected on the grounds of Corporate profits, whatever. Russia had to step up and sponsor the resolution. That sums up as a metaphor the nature of each country here in 2018. Formula companies love to give young mothers free formula samples around the world and when the breast milk runs dry because of low use the ladies, including the poor are stuck with expensive formula bills. Who’s for that?USA! Who wasn’t? The Russian Federation. Who bullied, and who helped? That’s the real world that you are part of and helping to disguise.

Ricky Miller

You have yet to sum up anything right all day. But you sure managed to hijack an entire thread and paint yourself as an ISIS sympathizer as well as an American and Ukrainian apologist.

Ricky Miller

And as an American apologist you now defend ISIS and define Russian actions against them as war crimes. Laughable. Par for the course seeing how ISIS was created in part by the United States, armed by the U.S. safellite states and provided with resources and thousands of brand new Toyota trucks. Whenver ISIS gets in real trouble and are about to be overrun American helicopters show up and evacuate people. You and American NeoCons are all hysterical because Syria has won back most of her territory and Russia has been a big part of the muscle for that. You yourself want to taint that and paint it as something evil when in fact it has been a noble project helping to defeat a true evil and defend the rights of smaller states against the machinations and actual real war crimes of much larger ones.

NWOD

And as an American apologist

I haven’t apologized for or whitewashed anything US has done. It’s you who’s the apologist, hypocrite, and Russian supremacist who glorifies Russian crimes, no matter how horrific.

You and American NeoCons are all hysterical You and American NeoCons are all hysterical

Whenever I think you have reached peak stupidity, you prove me wrong and exceed your past milestones.

You yourself want to taint that and paint it as something evil

I haeven’t even done that, you are fantasizing again. You have a great habit of attributing stuff to me that I never said or wrote. You are a troll, a liar, a fierce opponent of honor and decency, a defender of war criminals, a lover of evil.

Ricky Miller

You’ve gone ranting mad again. Do you need a referral to have your meds checked? The idea that Russian forces have committed war crimes by targeting ISIS vehicles is nonsense. And Americanized propaganda. American pilots targeted porters on the Ho Chi Minh trail. Most of what the porters carried were foodstuffs, blankets, boots, medical supplies, shovels, water purification chemicals, and only a third or so were weapons and ammunition. American pilots could not know who was a civilian Laotian or Vietnamese peasant or who was NVA, or the nature of what they ported yet still targeted them on the trail. As much as the war was based on a lie (Gulf of Tonkin) and was neocolonial and indefensible, It’s war. And you’ll stoop to any ridiculousness to villify Russia and win an argument. You have diarrhea of the mouth or here, your fingertips.

NWOD

You are a seriously deranged lunatic. I even gave you a link to my Twitter page. What is my pinned tweet? A very critical documentary about the Vietnam War, with the text: “To understand the lies and false flags of the “West” and the
psychopathic Evil that rules it, fake election after fake election,
watch this Vietnam documentary.

Lies, lies and lies to justify brutal murder of millions of innocent
civilians.”

Yet somehow, in your deranged lunatic mind, you convert this into me whitewashing US crimes in Vietnam.

I do not think it is possible to be dumber than you. A fucking low-IQ troll you are.

You can have the last, worthless word of lies and dishonor on which you pride yourself. But mostly you pride yourself on Russian crimes and evil. You are just a filthy supremacist. Your problem is not US crimes, but that it is US and not Russia committing them. You have no decency, no honor. Just a foul-mouthed supremacist. Bye-bye.

Ricky Miller

Russian evil? Like standing against ISIS and helping the victims of that group and others like it? Your point of view regarding that is despicable and desperate because Syria is winning over American sponsored terror groups. Are you an ISIS truck driver? You sound like a card carrying member of the ISIS teamsters union with such ridiculous statements in support of headchoppers.

Ricky Miller

And so exits the American war pig apologist who claims to criticize the United States but has spent the entire day here trashing Russia’s good name and even going so far as to claim that Russian missile strikes on ISIS oil trucks are war crimes. Pathologically trashing Russia’s good name, I should have said, and for what? Why? Becuase Russia has started to stand up to regime changers, International gangster murderers and even to modernize her strategic arsenal. Think of people like New World Order Dunce as an evil Uncle Sam, dressed in a ridiculous red, white and blue costume and having the sharpened teeth and evil face of the Jeeper Creeper. He and others like him are here on a mission to make Altviewpointers engaged in networking and sharing ideas as miserable as he can. It’s a mirror mission to the way news sites in the U.S. who report news not from a NATO stormtrooper point of view have been taken over, diminished, or driven underground.

Concrete Mike

A Little clarification is needed. Aleppo was a smaller area. Why would yoy say that. Its implying that the rebels did not shell the govvernment held areas all thos years…

US maneged not to damage tabqa dam, thank god.

NWOD

All of Aleppo is not smaller than all of Raqqa, just the occupied portion was a small part of Aleppo, esp. if you consider the entire metropolitan area.

I didn’t imply anything about shelling.

peacelover

U gave warning to those truck drivers because u want to save them.How funny that u r now providing safety to all their Toyota drivers because they are civilians.Now You are transferring those headchopping murderer civilians to other destinations to spread disasters chaos and terror.

Ricky Miller

And the Syrians and Russians are liberating Syrian cities from Jihadi street gangs. Syria has a responsibility to restore the social contract to people being held in their own communities against their will. Being held by mostly foreign fighters armed with American supplied weapons and with salaries being paid by the U.A.E.

NWOD

I doubt the Kurdish groups are jihadi. Kurds have wanted their own state for a long time, they tried also in Iraq, they’ve tried in Iran, they’ve tried in Turkey. I don’t think it’s all bad to have a Kurdish state, if only Iran, Turkey, Iraq and Syria would let them. This is pretty much the fault of the French and English, after they slew the Ottoman Empire they made the borders to make divide/conquer easier. None of the borders make any sense, if you consider it was all one country before the post-WW I balkanization.

Ricky Miller

I don’t consider the Kurds as Jihadi. But they are an illegal armed group operating outside constitutional authority and conspiring with a foreign state. They are also operating and occupying ethnic Arab areas far outside the Kurdish geographical footprint. Lastly, what they’ve done is despicable considering that most Kurds in Syria are the children and Grandchildren of people given shelter by Hafez Al-Assad. Making the betrayal an act of backstabbing. Karma, we’re waiting…

NWOD

they are an illegal armed group operating outside constitutional authority and conspiring with a foreign state.

That’s funny, that’s what Georgia says about S. Ossetia and Abkhazia. And what Moldova says about Transnistria. And what Ukraine says about Donbass and Crimea. Do you agree with this designation in those cases as well?

Making the betrayal an act of backstabbing

A true Russian partisan! Will take any ridiculous position to that end! Got it.

Ricky Miller

It doesn’t really matter what Georgia says about Abkhazia or South Ossetia. What matters is that Georgia attacked South Ossetia in violation of an International peacekeeping agreement. Russia didn’t cause Ossetians and Abkhaz to dislike Georgians and not want to be a part of the Georgian state. That happened a long time ago before Russia ever got there. You are again creating false equivalences. The U.S. didn’t inherit some long ago conflict between Kurds and Syria. Or anyone and Syria. The U.S. and some of her satellites decided to overthrow Syria’s government for reasons all their own and began stirring up trouble, smuggling weapons and providing support. It’s not the same situation at all. A true American apologist, will take any position to that end! Got it too…

NWOD

What matters is that Georgia attacked South Ossetia in violation of an International peacekeeping agreement.

I suppose that makes sense, if you conveniently leave out how that peacekeeping agreement came to be.

That happened a long time ago before Russia ever got there.

And Kurds wanted their own state long before the US got there.

You are again creating false equivalences.

No, you are drawing non-sensical distinctions.

The U.S. didn’t inherit some long ago conflict between Kurds and Syria.

LOL, the only conflict is Kurds want their own state and Syrians refuse to give it to them. Which is the same conflict in Georgia and S. Ossetia or Abkhazia. No matter how you want to spin it. It’s all about one group not wanting to be ruled by a different group. Like Chechens not wanting to be ruled by Russia. Or Crimeans by Ukraine. It’s all the same, though they are also all (in unimportant ways) different.

A true American apologist, will take any position to that end!

Again, you are projecting. You are the great Russian apologist. I don’t apologize for US being there at all, and again you misrepresent my position. Because that is the only way you can “win” in your head. Just misrepresent and argue with a straw man. Sad, really.

Ricky Miller

The Kurds want their own state and Syria won’t give it to them. The Kurds want their own state and NO one will give it to them, not Iraq, not Turkey and surely not Iran. It would be like the USA giving Texas back, because, you know, Mexico wants it.

NWOD

Again, the same exact thing can be said about Crimea, S. Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria, Donbass. But your double standard continues unabated. B/c you are an apologist.

Ricky Miller

As usual you sidestepped the entire point. But in the end Turkey will show and tell it to the Kurds in Syria and you’ll understand too. The Kurds are a small population in Syria and Turkey will not allow them to form a long term de facto state. The Syrian government is the least of their problems.

Ricky Miller

I’m an apologist in the sense that Russia’s actions I view as defensive and assertive as opposed to American/French/British actions since 1991 which I view as aggressive and on the offensive. You seem to want a World where Russia remains strictly within the rules whilst the Western powers help themselves. Russia believed in the New World, circa early 1990’s. It’s the West who violated the UN Charter, repeatedly. In Panama. In Haiti. Bombing Serbia without a UN resolution to forcibly seperate Kosovo. In the Iraq disgrace (Yandex Robin Cook’s House of Commons speech.) Russia didn’t even forcibly move outside her state borders until South Ossetia in 2008, and again that was defensive. In South Ossetia and Abkhazia, as well as Crimea, Russia’s actions to recognize independnce and to absorb Crimea do fall outside Treaty Rules, but these acts came at the end of a long series of Western violations and were/are defensive, assertive. Russia’s actions in Syria firmly remain inside the UN Charter and continue to be assertive, defensive. Which is a far cry from the actions of others there in support of insurgency which violate Syria’s rights under the UN Treaty and are aggressive and offensive.

NWOD

“You seem to want a World where Russia remains strictly within the rules whilst the Western powers help themselves.” No, I like to discuss with people who are honest and genuine with integrity.

I’m sympathetic to Russia’s position, don’t get me wrong. If you want to see more of my politics, this is me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SonnenTanzer/with_replies

But truth is truth. Even if it hurts a little.

Also I keep in mind that Russia is more defensive now due to its relative weakness. I know how large the Muscovy Duchy was. And how large Russia became in 1945. This is why I also think if the tables were reversed, and it is US/W Europe that had collapsed in 1991 instead of USSR/E Europe, then this situation would also be reversed.

I also think if China ever becomes the superpower it will be a LOT worse than US is now. That does not excuse what US is doing, it just means, US could be a lot worse if it wanted to be. And many other countries would be.

Ricky Miller

There is nothing related to integrity when it comes to comparing Russia’s actions post 1991 and the acts of the West. One side wants and asks for binding rules on all and security for everyone while the other side wants rules but only rules for others, not themselves. And weakness, under the UN charter should mean squat. Collective International Security and respect for one another and budding out of other people’s internal affairs was to be for everyone, not just the strong. The fact that Russia and the USA are now in tension and conflict is because Russia isn’t as weak as she was before and is standing up, assertive and defensive, and tons of people don’t like it. And so Russia must now be villified and her actions distorted.

NWOD

One side wants and asks for binding rules on all and security for
everyone while the other side wants rules but only rules for others, not
themselves.

Yes, but it’s not that extreme (and also what every government does) – US also provides security to many other countries. If Russia were the sole superpower it would act no differently, probably worse.

And by integrity I mean in discussion. You make a lot of claims against US, but not the same ones against Russia. So you are doing the very same thing that you are condemning (i.e., US has to live by rules, and is bad for not doing so, but Russia does not), which makes you a hypocrite. And that means no integrity.

I feel comfortable condemning both US and Russia for when each violates the law or acts hypocritically.

And weakness, under the UN charter should mean squat.

Actually the entire UN structure is to the contrary – the UNSC is composed of the (then in 1945) most powerful countries, and only they get a voice. And again, Russia feels free to beat up on its weaker neighbors too. That’s reality. It happens inside every country too – despite laws of equality, whether in China, Russia or US, the strong (rich) pray on the weak (poor). It’s like this everywhere.

The fact that Russia and the USA are now in tension and conflict is because Russia isn’t as weak as she was before and is standing up, assertive and defensive, and tons of people don’t like it. And so Russia must now be villified and her actions distorted.

True. Great Power politics. If I could change US behavior I would, but unfortunately I have no power whatsoever in US :). And mainly it’s Jews in US that hate Russia (just like they hate Assad and Iran), and it is them driving most of this conflict. If you want to find an enemy look there (particularly Russia Jews, incl. the ex-oligarchs), it’s more fertile ground than Americans. Most Americans want to be friends with Russians, it’s the ruling elite, again, lots of Jews there, who create the conflict.

Ricky Miller

Whatever. You refuse to accept the point that Russia is now operating in a new status quo created by the United States. Unilateral good behavior, like unilateral disarmament, is both stupid and suicidal. Russia bears far less culpability in merely successfully returning the serve that the U.S. hit into their side of the court. It’s not hypocrisy, it’s identifying cause and effect. Drawing lines and saying this far, no farther doesn’t create an equivalency, even if some of Russia’s actions lead outside a UN charter that other powerful states have been disregarding for some time now.

NWOD

Partisan apologetics. In some cases I have sympathy, like I wrote before, but bombing truck drivers without warning? That is pure evil. Not like the trucks aren’t sitting ducks. Easy enough to warn the drivers to get out.

But Noooooooooooooo! Yet you make excuses anyway. That’s just evil. And you’re a hypocrite.

Ricky Miller

No, cold hard reality. U.S: we overthrow who we want, even right on Russia’s border but Russia needs to stay within the rules. Russia reponds, protecting ethnic Russians and denying American access to Crimean military bases and along comes people like you claiming some equivalent degree of culpability. Both countries violated the letter of the “law” but only one side kicked off the chain of events, in a hybrid war of their design and the U.S. Under Secretary of State even brought cookies and chose the next Prime Minister. There is no equal blame for who is driving International relations into conflict and chaos. There is offensive and aggressive, and there is defensive and assertive. Most of the world has a pretty clear picture as to who they assign to each role.

NWOD

“U.S: we overthrow who we want, even right on Russia’s border but Russia needs to stay within the rules.” Russia would be exactly like this if it could – and always was exactly like that when it could Russia has no moral high horse in general. But I’ve noted many times, US being far more powerful now, it gets to serve and Russia gets to play defense. But Russia is till trying to interfere where it can. If it could overthrow Mexico’s government, do you think it would not? If Russia hadn’t squandered it’s relationship with Ukraine, US could have never pulled off the “coup” (I actually don’t think US did the coup part, that was maybe Poland, but probably just Ukrainian oligarchs doing that, like Kolomoisky, the Jew Nazi, lol). It’s natural for any country to wish to weaken its enemies.

So the Jew Nuland brought cookies. Big deal. Yanukovych let her. He could have said no.

Really the coup is Yanukovych’s fault, he should not have let the occupation of Independence Square and government buildings continue. He did it because he was very corrupt and had “stolen” money in Western banks and was afraid of losing it.

Ricky Miller

And btw Russia is all for Security Council reform. Russia backs both Brazil and India being added as permanent members, the U.S. does not. Last week, for the third time since the whole Russiagate election interference thing was spun as some big deal Russia again asked the United States for an ironclad agreement that each would remain strictly outside the internal affairs of the other. The United States dismissed the offer, again. Really, enough said.

Ricky Miller

Also, I don’t do Twitter. And neither should you. GAB is a great alternative. You say you don’t like having elements of SJW world being forced on you by the Courts but you continue to participate in a platform that is censoring people with the wrong kind of opinions? Be like Russia, be assertive and defensive and decline to pretend that what Twitter has done and is doing is in any way okay.

NWOD

Yeah, but GAB is not really an alternative. It’s too radical with “free speech”, you have really racist hateful people and calls for genocide and the like. It’s never going to catch on. There needs to be a nice balance that is civilized but does not discriminate based on ideology.

I dropped Google and FB already, Twitter is harder to give up as I still get all the news I usu. read there (Drudge, Zerohedge, Southfront, RT, Sputnik, Xinhua, NY Times, etc.). I don’t even think these are all on GAB, last I checked it was very small population.

Ricky Miller

There are lots of racists, to be sure. But you can have meaningful conversations on GAB too. I just ignore the elements I find offensive and celebrate that everyone can participate, not just the officially approved points of view. What, if anything have you replaced Google and Facebook with?

NWOD

Duckduckgo. FB -> nothing, I don’t like the whole “share your life with the world” thing. I have a personal website I can use to share info with friends/relatives.

Still stuck with Google on Android (though I try to restrict as much as I can data sharing with Google). But it’s pretty much a duopoly with not much difference between them – I have to have a smartphone for my work.

Turbofan

” Russia did not rebuilding totally destroyed Grozny until they got their guy in power either.”…

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Russia’s fight in Chechnya was an internal affair. Chechnya is part of Russia. The rebuilding Of Chechnya took place when terrorist there had been annihilated. Raqqa isn’t part of the US and the US has no business in Syria nor Raqqa.
If in the process of eliminating terror the SAA or the invited Russians caused collateral damage thats understandable.Syria belongs to Syrians.But what is the US doing thousands of miles away from the its borders destroying Syrian cites? The US was never invited into Syria…

NWOD

“Chechnya is part of Russia” So Russia was bombing it’s own people. That makes it so much better! Thanks for clarifying.

“The rebuilding Of Chechnya took place when terrorist there had been annihilated.” And by terrorist you mean the population of Chechnya, who wanted independence. Just call them terrorists and it’s all good. Like the people in Donestk and Lugansk. Terrorists!

“If in the process of eliminating terror the SAA or the invited Russians caused collateral damage thats understandable” You mean in the process of eliminating separatists. Russia murdered 200,000 Chechens, about one-third of the Chechen population. Sure, call them terrorists, then you can feel good about killing all those people! Fabulous!

Turbofan

No propagandist, the Russian were fighting terror in Chechnya. Western backed terror. A legitimate cause.collateral damage kills civilian unfortunately. Dare to explain the 2 million Iraqis killed by the US for no reason whatsoever?

NWOD

No, propagandist, Russia was fighting separatism in Chechnya and murdered 1/3rd of the population to prevent Chechyan independence. Nobody believes your lies. Everyone knows a Muslim country does not want to be ruled by a Communist or Christian country. And everyone knows Chechnya never ever ever wanted to be part of the Russian Empire. You can lie all you want it does not change facts.

US was 100% wrong to attack Iraq. But it wasn’t for “no reason”, it just wasn’t a valid reason (the only valid reason is self-defense).

Turbofan

what reason was that non valid reason?

NWOD

You mean the second Gulf war? You can look that up yourself, not interested in discussing the Iraq war. But in general all wars not in self-defense are the same reason: the attacking party does not like the other party. It pretty much boils down to that, in every case.

Turbofan

ok.. How convenient..Why.. Because it makes the US appear bad?

NWOD

Because I don’t want to discuss any random topic you pick, asshole.

Turbofan

The Iraq war is not a random topic. It is part and parcel of everything there that is being discussed. the slaughtering of civilians in Raqqa by the US is like the slaughtering of civilians in Iraq for no reason I may say. So again I will ask; Is it because the Iraq war makes the US a appear bad?

Ricky Miller

But the attacking party seems to be the same cast of characters over and over again. You just refuse to admit who it is exactly who plunged the post cold war world into violence and chaos, based not on the agreed upon International order as provided by Treaty but instead based on who is the strongest and Lord of the Flies.

NWOD

All these wars existed before USSR collapsed. You know how many wars there were between 1945 and 1991? And USSR was as involved as anyone – including political, economic and military interference (none of which is permitted under the UN charter). Even the Warsaw Pact uprisings saw USSR tanks crush them.

Don’t pretend US is only bad player. Everyone who has the power is a bad player to the extent of their power. I have yet to see the most powerful country on the planet be peaceful. Maybe you can teach me something there? :)

Yes, to a large extent international relations is not law-based. Because there is nobody to enforce it. But a global government would be worse – than everyone is a slave. Until people become more enlightened … good luck with that.

I often think about a revolution in the US but there is a real danger (n fact most likely outcome) it would just get worse.

Turbofan

“Everyone knows a Muslim country does not want to be ruled by a Communist or Christian country.”
Firstly Chechnya is not a country but part of Russia. Secondly you are saying that any ethnic or religious group that feel that they dont belong to a mother country because they are a religious or ethnic minority should resort to terror and demand independence.
Are you reading what you are writing?

NWOD

Only a very small number resorted to “terror”. And the “terror” only started after Russia started a war. Yeltsin invaded after separatists stormed a Communist meeting. Ironically, Yeltsin himself used tanks to attack Russia’s Communist parliament, lol.

You just call anyone that wants to fight for independence a “terrorist” if you oppose independence and a “freedom fighter”: if you support it, like in Donetsk, right? Well many people have this double-standard, they are partisans, they care only that their side “wins”. But it is lies and propaganda.

As to “Muslim country”, Chechnya was independent before Russia conquered it. It has tried to achieve independence many times since. It has never accepted being part of Russian Empire. Russians just always oppressing and occupying Chechnya.

Turbofan

People arent stupid anymore. The separatist movement in Chechnya just like the protest movement in Syria may have been genuine . we will never know but when agent of the west are paid to cause trouble , resort to terror then the government of the day has to act.

NWOD

No, Russia didn’t have to start a war. It could have done like Crimea: have a referendum, run by the Russian government. That was the right thing to do in Crimea, right? Why not in Chechnya? But Russia chose instead to start killing people.

But when Ukraine does that in Donetsk, Ukraine is evil. Right? Even when Russian “volunteers” like Girkin/Strelkov show up to lead the war against Ukraine?

Turbofan

wow.. Chechnya was part of Russia when the war started. Crimea was part of Ukraine before the people voted to join Russia…Are you getting this?

NWOD

LOL, yes, Chechnya was part of Russia, but no referendum and start killing is good, according to you.

Crimea was part of Ukraine but referendum first was good, right?

Donetsk is part of Ukraine but no referendum and start killing is bad, right?

So do you see the inconsistency there? Well, you are consistent on only one thing: whatever Russia does is “right”. You are partisan/propagandist.

Turbofan

I will stop being partisan right after you explain the killing of a 2 million Iraqis for no good reason

NWOD

Only 2 million? Surely it was 200 million! At least! Maybe 6 billion!

Ricky Miller

Umn, Russia actually parted with Chechnya once. Yeltsin called time out and pulled back. The extremist Chechen leadership, with CIA sponsored advisors, went on to invade Dagestan and perpetrate attacks elsewhere in Russia. That’s what led to the Prime Ministerial leadership of Vladimir Putin and the end to Chechen independence de facto or otherwise.

NWOD

Yes a peace treaty was signed after the First Chechen War. There was no “parting” as Chechnya was not granted independence, though de facto Moscow’s influence was greatly reduced. And yes, some Chechen fighters (two warlords) attacked Dagestan in 1999, though the Chechen government was not really to blame for that (it wasn’t very strong – one of the several negative results of Russia’s devastating First Chechen War). But the “attacks elsewhere” (apartment bombings) did not happen until after Russia invaded Chechnya again in Aug. 1999, and were allegedly in retaliation therefor. The Dagestan invasion was quickly defeated, with the invaluable help of Dagestani police and civilians, but the Second Chechen War continued for 10 years.

AlexanderAmproz

Trolls alike NWOD didn’t read !

To know what about you are talking,
Just read
Hadji Mourad – Léon Tolstoï

History always serve the same dishes !

Jens Holm

The war and what it was is very well descriebed in several good versions. No need to go back to Tolstoj.

I have done some ´winterreading too. Solsjenitzin is more updated to me. Tolstoj is fine.

Jens Holm

Your definition of whats Russian and not certainly should be defined by votinng about it. Did they ever. They were taken by force and the whole area was turned upside down.

And yes, I agree in his comments. They make a lot of sense. Chechenia was not treated as a part of USSR at all but killing ants. I do agree mulisms there did terrible things and sometimes worse then the Russians.

But where is the pondus as runner of the country in this = Gone.

Jens Holm

You are highly manipulated Yourself. Its well known the Russians 2 times has deported all Chechenians and made every part into Sovkos and Kolchoses. They never asked for that.

Like a lot of other territiry there in the Caucasus region, it was taken by hard force from about 1820 to 1880. Grosnij is made as a military and traffic strongpoint to contral that.

So if You see it like that, those local muslims had every reason to try to see the light. Descriebing them as terrorists is totally wrong. You say, that if the USSR will attack that point of veiw, they are not allowed to call for help – any kind.

I saw the same for Bosnia. When there could be no local selfrule and none helped the, they called in Al Qaida and got a lot of saudi family money to it.

So what happend was, that USSR made the contrast and the escalation in extremisme. True some were normal hard criminels as well. But thats what they have. Miafias are well organized people too.

And You ignore there was a Checenia war 1 and 2. Russia/USSR had all the time they needed to find things somewhere in the middle.

Here You also igore, that west kind of traded by getting a lot back to the rest of the world and manybee mainly Estonia, Latvia and Lituania.

You also ignore a lot of other countries raised from the Russian dirt of communisme collapese.

Much is that is ignored by You even its trúe the area was develloped by the russians. But was it for the people there ? NOT AT ALL.

More like for oil.

Maninder Singh Batra

If you had one fuck bit of an idea of what Teip culture of Chechnya and how Chechen society was based on thievery ,murder,sex slavery for centuries you wouldn’t be talking this gibberish. There was a large scale genocide and ethnic cleansing of Russian population(over 40,000 killed) in Chechnya under Ex-Sovok General Dudayev who was on the payroll of Adnan Kashoggi and the CIA.Over 20,000 Russian women were forced into sex slavery in 1991-94 under dudayev.

Concrete Mike

Good ol Adnan again today…what a coincidence.

AlexanderAmproz

You should read Hadji Mourad – Léon Tolstoï !

AlexanderAmproz

All the Chechnya mess was organized by CIA/NATO/Turk Proxies,
almost none differences with Syria,
and I do believe it’s the main reason why Russia-China went in Syria.
The purposes was to avoid to see all US proxies sawing mess
and Death in Central Asia, in-between Caucasus
and Oriental Turkmenistan-Xinjiang(Ouïgours)

Jens Holm

The world is not like that anymore and has not for many years and ever will be.

And again a parrot rhetorics of the worst. What is USA doing there. You have that in big letters