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JUNE 2020

10 Signs the U.S. Is Heading for a Depression

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10 Signs the U.S. Is Heading for a Depression

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Written by Mike Whitney; Originally appeared at The Unz Review

1– Unemployment is off-the-charts

Thursday’s jobless claims leave no doubt that the country is in the grips of another severe recession. More than 6.6 million Americans filed for unemployment insurance in the last week. That number exceeds the gloomiest prediction of more than 40 economists and pushes the two-week total to an eye-watering 10 million claims.

According to CNBC:

“Those at the lower end of the wage scale have been especially hard-hit during a crisis that has seen businesses either cut staff outright or at best freeze any new hiring until there’s more visibility about how efforts to contain the coronavirus will work.

“We’ve lived through the recession and 9/11. What we’re seeing with this decline is actually worse than both of those events,” said Irina Novoselsky, CEO of online jobs marketplace CareerBuilder.” (CNBC)

According to New York Magazine:

“Economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louisprojected Monday that job losses from the coronavirus recession would reach 47 million and push America’s unemployment rate to 32.1 percent — more than 7 points higher than its Great Depression–era peak.”

2– Service Sector has been walloped by the virus

Services account for 70% of the US economy, but presently the sector is in meltdown. According to the analysts at Wolf Street: “Employment contracted sharply and hours were reduced for those still employed. “The employment index plunged from +6.1 to -23.8, also the lowest level on record…

Retailers got whacked. The Retail Sales Index of the Texas Retail Outlook Survey collapsed from the already beaten-down level of -2.5 in February to an epic all-time low of -82.6 in March… (Also) the general business activity index collapsed from the beaten down level of -5.0 to a historic low of -84.2….

Comments from retail executives were somber:… “Most of our business has gone to zero except for essential locations such as hospitals, military bases and prisons… We are contemplating at this moment sending most employees home while our owners determine whether they can afford to pay reduced salaries and cover benefits for a short period while we see if things improve or worsen” (Wolf Street)

3– Economic carnage extends across sectors

Business Insider: “Recession risks are rising as coronavirus spreads around the world…The crisis will clobber airlines, shipping, hotels, and restaurants…

“Sectors reliant on trade and the free movement of people are most exposed,” said Benjamin Nelson, a Moody’s vice president and co-author of the report.

Carmakers, gaming, and retail will be hit hard by supply chain disruptions, the analysts said…

“A lengthy outbreak would affect economic activity for longer, leading to heightened recessionary dynamics and a more significant demand shock,” Moody’s said. “A sustained pullback in consumption would hurt corporate earnings, prompt layoffs, and weigh on consumer sentiment.”(Business Insider)

Car sales have also dropped dramatically in the last two weeks. On Wednesday,Hyundai reported that sales had seen a decline of 43 percent for March compared to the same period in 2019. That’s a drop from 61,177 vehicles in March 2019 to just 35,118 during the same month in 2020. All other car manufacturers are experiencing similar weakness in demand.

4– The Bloodbath on Wall Street continues

U.S. shares sold off again on Wednesday for the third time in four days wiping out most of last week’s bear market rally. The SandP 500 dipped 114 points while the Dow Jones lopped-off nearly 973 points by the end of the session. Analysts now believe that last week’s 20% surge was a temporary reaction to Trump’s multi-trillion dollar fiscal plan. By a 9 to 1 margin, investors are now betting that stocks have further to fall.

“Investor pessimism today is as bad as it has been,” said Dennis DeBusschere of Evercore ISI. “All estimates of when this will end are being pushed out…”

Before the outbreak of the virus, traders believed that low rates, liquidity injections and easy credit would keep stocks on a permanent upward trajectory. But the daily deluge of bad news coupled with an economy that is in freefall has undermined confidence in the Central Bank sending stocks into a tailspin. The Dow closed Wednesday at 20,943, which is three times higher than its March 9, 2009 low of 6,547. Stocks still have further to fall.

5– Struggling consumers can no longer carry the US economy

An article at The Medium explains how the composition of the workforce has changed since the 2008 financial crisis. Gig workers make up are a significant part of the workforce, but they do not have the protections or benefits of most wage earners. These independent contractors will impacted the most by the sudden downturn in the economy. Their ability to consume will also weaken the post-crisis recovery and lead to slower growth. Check out this short excerpt from A crippling collapse in consumer spending is coming:

“From restaurant workers, caterers, and Uber drivers to office and hotel cleaning staff to event venue staff to people supplementing earnings with AirBnB revenue, income is cratering across the country for hourly and gig workers. And most have little to no financial cushion…

Thirty-six percent of U.S. workers are now involved in the gig economy…. Most gig and hourly workers are walking a financial tightrope. They will not be able to afford even a short-term hit to their earnings. It will mean a further spike in auto loan and credit-card delinquencies. It will mean a spike in healthcare-driven bankruptcies. It will mean unpaid rent. And it will mean consumer spending will plummet…. A sudden shock to gig and hourly-worker earnings will have seismic implications for the economic and political future of the U.S….

More than 15.5 million Americans work in restaurants. Of those workers, roughly 3 million live in poverty….Unpaid rent will eventually lead to landlord defaults… Consumer spending now accounts for roughly 70% of the U.S. economy. Reportedly, government stimulus may not reach consumers until the end of April. Gig and hourly workers need help now.” (“A crippling collapse in consumer spending is coming”, The Medium)

How many of these gig workers will fall through the cracks, lose their apartments or rental units, and wind up on the streets, homeless and destitute?

6– Americans continue to stockpile food

According to the Wall Street Journal: “In the past two weeks, Americans have hoarded food as restaurants close their dining rooms and more are told to stay home from work and school. General Mills, which makes Cheerios cereal, Yoplait yogurt and Progresso soup, on Wednesday said retailers in North America and Europe are purchasing more of its products and its factories are running at near capacity to meet the demand….(WSJ)

“Consumers across the globe are still loading their pantries — and the economic fallout from the virus is just starting...

“You could see wartime rationing, price controls and domestic stockpiling,” said Ann Berg, an independent consultant and veteran agricultural trader.” (Bloomberg)

CNBC: “Psychologists ..weigh in on why our brains push us to panic buy — even when authorities are assuring the public there’s no need to. According to Paul Marsden, a consumer psychologist at the University of the Arts London,…

“It’s about ‘taking back control’ in a world where you feel out of control…When people are stressed their reason is hampered, so they look at what other people are doing. If others are stockpiling it leads you to engage in the same behavior. People see photos of empty shelves and regardless of whether it’s rational it sends a signal to them that it’s the thing to do….” (CNBC)

7– Most Americans have no savings

From Yahoo Finance:

Saving money continues to be a challenge for Americans….

Since 2015, GOBankingRates has asked Americans how much they have in savings. Each year, the survey results have shown that a majority of adults don’t even have $1,000 in a savings account…

This year, GOBankingRates asked more than 5,000 adults, “How much money do you have saved in your savings account?” Respondents could choose from one of seven options:

The survey found that 58 percent of respondents had less than $1,000 saved.

“It’s always concerning when a large part of the population is seemingly living paycheck to paycheck because when unexpected personal or financial hardships occur, it can be challenging to recover without adequate savings,” Jason Thacker, head of consumer deposits and payments at TD Bank, said.” (“58% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds”, Yahoo Finance)

8– Household debt is at an all-time high

From CNBC: “Household debt surged in 2019, marking the biggest annual increase since just before the financial crisis, according to the New York Federal Reserve.

Total household debt balances rose by $601 billion last year, topping $14 trillion for the first time, according to a new report by the Fed branch. The last time the growth was that large was 2007, when household debt rose by just over $1 trillion....

“The data also show that transitions into delinquency among credit card borrowers have steadily risen since 2016, notably among younger borrowers,” Wilbert Van Der Klaauw, senior vice president at the New York Fed, said in a statement.” (“Household debt jumps the most in 12 years, Federal Reserve report says”, CNBC)

9 — Many businesses might not survive long enough to get stimulus

Many businesses shut their doors either for a lack of customers or on orders from state or local governments as emergency declarations began rolling across the country in mid-March,. Yet it could be weeks more before the business loans, bigger unemployment checks and direct payments to individuals from the stimulus plan flow into the economy.

Small businesses account for almost half of U.S. private employment. A complete collapse of even some of those enterprises not only would dash the dreams of entrepreneurs and threaten the livelihoods of many, it risks sapping the power of an eventual economic rebound as the financial distress ripples through to landlords, vendors and lenders.

Already, 50,000 retail stores have shut in just over a week across the country, putting more than 600,000 workers on furlough, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

The National Federation of Independent Business, had a record 13,000 people register for a webinar it hosted Monday on the stimulus plan and financial resources….After the webinar ended, more than 900 emails flooded in, she said, with business owners asking: “Am I going to have anything left? Will I be evicted? Will I have to file for bankruptcy? Will I be able to reopen?”

“The emails almost make me want to cry,” Milito added. “What I’m hearing from members is fear, uncertainty and almost heartbreak.” (“Stimulus May Come Too Late for U.S. Businesses Already Stretched”, Bloomberg)

10– Food banks are seeing a sudden, sharp rise in demand

This is from Newsday:

“Emergency food programs are bracing for a wave of new recipients in the coming weeks as more Long Islanders are expected to lose their jobs, get furloughed or have work hours and wages reduced. At the same time, volunteers — many of them at high risk of contracting the virus — are staying home to protect themselves and needy people from getting sick.

Compounding the problem is a crippled national supply chain that delays food deliveries by weeks.

“It’s a perfect storm of tragedy on top of each other,” said Jean Kelly, executive director of the Interfaith Nutrition Network, a Hempstead soup kitchen. “Everything that could go wrong is going wrong.”

Soup kitchens and pantries in many communities closed temporarily in recent weeks to protect volunteers or because sponsoring agencies, such as houses of worship and nonprofits, also shut their doors.

“The reason they’re closed is they don’t really have an infrastructure of people to work there….The majority of the food pantries are operated by volunteers. The average age is in their 70s. They’re fearful of contracting the coronavirus.” (“Demand at LI food pantries rise as volunteers and food supplies fall”, Newsday)

Final Note from an article titled: “Americans Are Worried About The Coronavirus. They’re Even More Worried About The Economy”

“An overwhelming majority of Americans are really concerned about the economy. … A Morning Consult poll conducted between March 20 and March 22 found that 90 percent of Americans said they were “very” or “somewhat” concerned that the coronavirus would impact the economy…Americans are also worried about job security — 49 percent said they were worried about losing their job, according to an Economist/YouGov survey conducted between March 22 and March 24.” (FiveThirtyEight)

Not surprisingly, some polls suggest that “more Americans are worried about the effect of the coronavirus on the economy than about their own health.” I would include myself in that group, which is why I hope that President Trump expands his economics team by adding more experienced, top-notch economists who can help him navigate this unprecedented and potentially-catastrophic crisis. This isn’t the time for the B Team (Kudlow, Mnuchin) to making decisions that will impact the entire country.

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  • Harry Smith

    Really good article. But let’s not forget that USA was the biggest consumer in the World. That means the USA depression will hit a lot of people around the World too.

    • LR captain

      Yes we even may see regression in terms technology if china or Russia don’t pick up where the US left off.

      • Harry Smith

        Many of USA technologies were just an illusion to get more money from Congress. Kinda anti tank bomb in the pentagon wars movie. And others are considered useless for China or Russia. In the modern world, any technology which represents real interest for Russia or China highly like won’t be lost forever.

        • LR captain

          sadly if that “US elite’s controlling world” were to happen there would be mass suicides. People history don’t take kindly to being oppressed they will either rebel or die. They have not be brought up in the world the US elite want. The transition is always the hardest part. So, anyone born before it will not see reason to live much less reason to have child. No children no future.

          The sad or good thing is even if there is stability in this new world order some will need to dominate the others. 1 to 3 factions with in those elite will form. Civil/faction wars will breakdown their little perfect world.

          Some people like me don’t know our place in the world. Governments like 1984 tell us were our place is. We know what to do in those situations. I would not mind living in that type of world cause i’d know how to play by that rule book.

          • Harry Smith

            Just google for neurointerface and read the capabilities they want to get when it will be designed. And please don’t forget that most happy people on the Earth live in madhouses.

          • LR captain

            i hate the matrix

          • Harry Smith

            Well then you need to continue practicing food growing and self reliance, at my point. Prepare to live without most of the modern technologies if you don’t want to live in the augmented reality.
            It’s not my fantasies, but all is described in “welcome to 2030”. Here is public part of it.
            https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is/

          • LR captain

            did we not have discussion about living after the nukes go off and your asking if i could survive a similar scenario but without the radiation.

          • Harry Smith

            I do remember our conversation. But it won’t be like after nuke world. Imagine big and shiny city where everyone is happy. It’s an unbelievable temptation! One thing when there is no alternative and other is when it’s next to you and all you have to do is to allow them penetrate your brain.

        • Jens Holm

          Its no ilusion being less independent in fuel. So if the state want that, they are the investers and the money is not stolen.

          Your dirty version tells, its wrong a Goverment makes its inhabitants safe.

        • Jake321

          The US can’t take two months of shutdown no less 4 to 5 months. And if the US goes down so does most all of the rest of the world. This better be pretty much over this summer or it will be a very not pretty Brave New World. Beyond chaos and collapse, I have no idea what it might look like.

          • Superfly

            Ebreo meno mondo

          • Harry Smith

            Google for “welcome to 2030” this is their roadmap. In fact it is very simplified and squeezed book of mr. Soros – “crisis of the world capitalism”. Nad Soros book is tactical guide for the Jacques Attali books.
            By the way. They were preparing for this since 2008. The Basil III is the clear evidence.

      • Jens Holm

        Russia is NOTHING in those matters and dont have any tools for any improvements at all. NOTHING. They will sell as lot of very cheep oil but not enough because the price is now less then 20 dollar and 40 dollars was the lowest for them.

        China is much better. Their problem will be, that we cant effort to buy their prooducts. If we cant, they are in trouble too.

        But the Chinese now has a groeing home market. Here they can expands at least some making wellfare for more Chinese.

        They also do have biig problems in pollution of any kind. It might be a good idea to make better systems for electricity, heating and cooling. Its naned as quality growth. Less pollution lower the pressure on the healt care system. People live longer and better. More cars and other things migt be replaced with something else and not with smog and like that.

        They import a lot of oil. It would be an improvement for them and even the world they took up their very dirty HSO4 coal and for a period at least used more fuel. They might even invest in gas from Saudia Arabia.

        Thats how I see it by reading about in on sober sites.

        The economic predictions from several here about USA again and again is higly overrated and wishes for the world and themselves. But the world and the Western Economies dont work as some collapse predicters say.

        The world of Ours – the whole world – will be hit. The little man and women in the middle of Africa will be happy for cheep fuel to their scooter sending carrots and tomatoes to the town market twice a week.

        I can only advice people here to have more windturbines and electricity by solar calls. That makes stability for the local economies. The problem is instability and dependensy.

        In windy areas there can be produced a lot of electricity. Denmark today cover 42% of its electricity by that. We build more turbines. More things can be replaced and we allso will need a lot for our non fuel cars.

        Everywhere there is enough wind, people should do that. It makes plus in economy, independensy and no smog. Well, they are not nice, but they are a kind of “money trees”.

        • Jake321

          Since the cost of wind power is very high to say, natural gas, the living standards will drop and products will be too expensive to export. A small country like Denmark does not have a big enough base to be self-sufficient in a modern economy. You might have a high tech modern power sector supporting a rebirth of a locally based feudal agricultural society that will not be able to support that expensive power sector. See “Things to Come” by H.G. Wells for a flavor of what lies ahead if we don’t get this Pandemic under control in the next few months.

          • Jens Holm

            Windpower most of the time are below oil and gas on the Skandinavien market for electricity.

            You seemes to ignore that Our intensions are to be as much independent as possible, so its now a big player.

            We export a lot of electricity and therefore also can pay for import from them whatever they use.

            Its seemes You dont know much about our economy. Here is the top 10 list:

            http://www.worldstopexports.com/denmarks-top-10-exports/

            Products from farmig is less then 10%.

            In GDP for the world pr capita we are number 9 in the world making 59.000 dollars each.

            ………………………………………….

            About the pandemics I allow me to say, we do have a good system to handle it with whatever happens.

        • LR captain

          alex jones please calm down

    • JIMI JAMES

      The nations with the stockmarket economies will suffer the hardest whilst nations with factual produce aka oil,gas.ores,coal,uranium,exotic metals,minerals,agricultures and robust superfunds not pillaged by incumbent governance will be impacted far less and recover first!

      • Harry Smith

        These countries sold their oil, gas etc to USA. So they will lose the markets and incomes.

        • Jens Holm

          The USA economy is not that anymore. LEARN FOR THE HECK. I am so tired in people licing in the old days.

          USAs is independent of oil and gas.

          You are not even able to divide up USA in State and Market by stockings.

          The consumers love cheep Russian oil and follow the market. Poor people there do it very much. the loosers will be the oil companies but fx Russa cant effort sellig cheep oil, which they hardly can sell and compensate by selling a lot.

          Thats how the declining is.

          The winners will be the productions in USA, which get low price oil. Thats the important in this. Those companies are much more important then the oil part.

          Too much oil is no problem. Too little oil is a big problem.

          • Superfly

            WORTHLESS SPAM MORON!

          • Jens Holm

            You compare with Your own primitive world and understand no vital facts about our economy.

            You get HQ of first class by me in this. Now go back to Your grandfather and ask for better grass for Your car.

            And the car: No seatbelt, no airbag, no ABS and a drivers licence from Legoland, were You also found gold.

          • Superfly

            RETARDO!

          • Jens Holm

            REtardo is Your real name. No wonder. I once knew one, which the first five years of his life thought he was named STOP IT:)

          • Superfly

            HABLAR ENGLISH RETARDO PUTA!

        • Jens Holm

          Its very incompetent not to look at the rest of the world as the article does.

          Many companies will collapse more or less for a period. But that will regain again if their products and services are needed.

          They are.

          So we will see declinings all over the world and.

          This is a battle among the oil and fuel producers and very good for all consumers. The winners – apart from the climate – will be the consumers incl. me.

          But there are a lot of loosers too fx in jobs, where new ones has to be covered by the unimployed ones. The loosers will be, where there is low or none social security system.

          We have to feed them as well as we can, fix theor roof, make schools and education cheeper, compensate for pension and like that.

          Your prediction is wrong, but we all will have problems for a while or for years.

          • Superfly

            SPAM MORON!

          • Jens Holm

            The manipulations are telling not about the rest of the world.

          • Harry Smith

            All these companies needs markets to sell their goods. Since 2008 this market was USA as top of pyramid of consumption. This killed middle class in America and drastically increased the debts but it worked until now.

          • Jens Holm

            You only take one factor of many. As long as You dont add the rest, its a no go.

            1) The middle class all are insured for medical care ans hospitals. 2) The typical fat person is poor living og fat food and dont follow normal health advices.3) The main problems for reducing the middle class is low or none investments to the lower educated, so they climb in tincome. 4) About 3/4 which emmigrate to USA which might be 125.000 a year are low incommers having a base of 0 dollars and adds minus. They therefore also only can handle low paid temporary jobs fx in d´farming.

            As a minimum You have to add those factors.

            As I see it, they need as Sanders but they will get a Biden or a Trump. Thats bad for them.

          • Harry Smith

            Jens, if you don’t have any real profession like plumber or electrician it’s time to get one until too late.

        • Jake321

          And countries like Russia who rely on selling oil and gas to others will be especially hard hit even if there was no oil price war. And so will China which relies on selling to the West even though they have gotten the Pandemic under control. Their workers can go back to work but the factories will stay closed when demand from the West dries up. This thing is global and the US is a very large part of the economic globe.

          • igybundy

            Will give you some free lube though.. on the house..

          • Harry Smith

            That’s why the belt and road initiative was made for. In any case what COVID-19 did to USA will accelerate the anti USA consolidation all over the World. Hope you understand that my point is rational and I don’t hate ordinary hard working Americans trying to survive in bloody circus of last decade in USA.

          • Jake321

            All depends if all those other countries want to be dominated by China where they have no relatives or the US where they all have lots of cousins. Do think on that.

          • Harry Smith

            Sorry man it’s not about what you think it’s about the reality. Huge Chinese investments in Iran and Pakistan. Unbelievable growing of Chinese presence in Africa. Chinese deals with EU and Russia. Even making yuan to be reserve currency in IMF. All this are puzzles of the one big picture. I don’t like some things too, but it’s better to adjust your view than to hit in the wall in front.

        • Superfly

          US in a losing war with China

          There is a prevalent belief in the Axis of the East nations that the US
          used a biological weapon called COVID-19 against China, and that Israel
          used a more deadlier strain of it on Iran, and that this biological
          weapon unwittingly boomeranged on the perpetrator nations and their
          allies. This view is also shared by many in Europe and on the
          continents of America and Australia. For those who dabble or live for
          geopolitical chess games, it is understood that because Pax Americana is
          losing muscle in the Eastern spread of the world, especially in the
          middle east, it is no longer able to employ nuclear weapons or even
          employ traditional warfare against powerful enemies such as China,
          without prohibitive costs to its own military, and perhaps even to its
          own overpopulated cities. Therefore, Pax Americana is now doing dirty
          wars. Biological warfare. Covertly.

          Beyond a COVID-19 vaccine hitting the market shelves, a new and
          darker chapter between China and the US will begin. The dragon versus
          the eagle.

          And unless one of them publicly surrenders, there will be war.
          Unavoidable war. A war between the Axis of the East and the Axis of the
          West. A war between an incumbent and a contender over the throne of
          the world. World War III.

          COVID-19 has changed everything. COVID-19 is but a prelude. A portent of what’s to come.

          No messiah will be on duty. No government should be trusted.
          Therefore, you and only you alone must be in charge of the safety of
          your life.

          … May you all live in sober caution

          • Jens Holm

            So who took You up from the basement by accident.

            You really dont get China. China makes the cake to share better. They have moree then 600 millions being more poor then any american.

            And where are You: You will be in the same tradtions for Your kind hoping the worst for everybody else being a nobaofy illerate lazybum of the worst kind.

            Thats Your relation for Your fatalisme. Most of You still think watches are for carbombs only.

            The Chinese dragens are the good ones being nice to everybody. They dont fight eagles but help them having a good life and makes good weather for their eggs. Its mainly connected to fertillity. Thats why its dancing in the streets to cover all of us and there are so many chinese.

          • Superfly

            ENGLISH MORON & LESS SPAM:)

          • Harry Smith

            Pax Americana is agonizing now. The only question how long the agony will be: couple of months, couple of years or decade.

      • occupybacon

        Those countries that sell their natural resources instead of using them to produce goods and sell the goods are never the hardest hit because they are always at the bottom, they can’t go lower than that.

      • Jens Holm

        You are in the old days about those things even stockmarkets is a very old thing. The main good thing of many are the flexibilities.

        Some links for where its better and not run by that stockmarkets system by loans and profit, will be a good hint to changes.

        So please give a link or two…

      • Jake321

        Especially those who have learned to eat oil, gas, minerals, etc. which no one else will be buying from them.

    • Jake321

      On this we sure agree.

    • Superfly

      US is kaput, their worthless dollar will be replaced by Yuan.

      • Jens Holm

        No, is not hit harder then many others are. So far we dont know how bad it will be as well. PAN in pandemic says most of the world.

        Nothing wrong in using Yuan. Remember glasses if You will try to eat with chopstickers. I hope Your are better in that then in world economics.

      • Jake321

        If you missed it, Igor, without the US and it’s economic allies, China’s economy also goes bully up. So if the US dollar goes worthless, so does the Yuen…oh, and the current near worthless Ruble even before them.

        • igybundy

          Oh China did not have any trouble surviving the last 5000 years without the US$… But you wont survive for long without any fresh lube..

  • Jens Holm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Unz

    The glasses should be on. Its a typical holocost denioal organ.

  • RichardD

    Washington state was the epicenter of the virus in the US for months before NY took over, and destroyed it’s economy with a lockdown and repression. Sweden has also had the virus since January and has preserved it’s economy by not using a lockdown and avoiding repression. Both jurisdictions have almost identical deaths per million of population. There are many other examples, including Brasil and Japan.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0fca225229174210fb2d1286bb2a388f137ad75ea3e54b03e1bd094b0fd838c2.png
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6597510df862d3d30baf73e27348694b50b5184d9b2583a14898f1de544a6223.png

    – COVID-19 CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC
    Last updated: April 06, 2020, 21:28 GMT –

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    • Jens Holm

      So far its very difficult to compare. Its not in its maximum yet.

      • Jake321

        See my comparison above.

    • Jake321

      Let me help you out again, AH. The best comparisons are obviously Sweden and Norway. Very similar countries that started about the same time to have significant Virus impacts, a couple of weeks after Washington State. Norway chose to have stringent stay-at-home and Sweden intentionally did not. And were are they today after less than three weeks? Sweden has deaths per million of almost 50, growing at about 15% per DAY and Norway is under 15 deaths per million, growing at about 10% per day.

      In terms of Washington State, which lagged California in having strong restrictions, but has had the Pandemic impacts almost two weeks longer than Sweden and Norway, the deaths per million are about the same as Sweden at 50 but with a growth rate about the same as Norway, about 10% per day. If Sweden and Norway are projected to about the same time line as Washington State and California, the Swedish deaths per million go up to between about 125 and 325. The Norwegian deaths per million go to between about 30 and 60, again similar to Washington State.

      But as I noted, Washington State lagged California in its response. So how has California done? Our deaths per million are only about 10, growing at about 8% per day. But let’s look at another area that lagged even more than Washington State in imposing restrictions, New York City. It’s deaths per million are now about 375!

      So based on how early restrictions are imposed or not imposed, it is clear that Sweden has put itself on a curve more like NYC and Norway on a curve similar to Washington State. But they all are on a worse curve than California which was the first in the US to have community spread and the first to impose serious restrictions. So as usual, you are wrong and either cherry pick the data or don’t understand it. But what’s new from you as an arrogant high school dropout loser?

      • RichardD

        Japan has had the virus since January 6th with no lockdown and a small fraction of the deaths of NY. With the only comparable metropolitan area on the planet. So your theory obviously doesn’t work in the real world. Brazil and others also have far fewer deaths with no lockdown.

        What does make sense is that the people putting out these high death counts are falsifying the numbers like the Italians and Germans have admitted to.

        • PZIVJ

          “Brazil and others also have far fewer deaths with no lockdown.”
          And also Brazil and India are a hell of a lot hotter and humid. You should go back to school and start to understand rapid rate of virus spread and mortality rates. :/

          • RichardD

            Maybe you should deal with weather facts. Belgium and the Netherlands have double and triple the deaths per million that Sweden has right next door. Tokyo has identical weather to NYC.

          • Jens Holm

            I dont care about the mistakes USA and several others do. They say let the old die and the economy wont be harmed. Thats cynisime.

            I am not like that. Why should I not do my best to give Grandparents some years more.

            USA is 52 states and 1 president. Most people more or less follew the classic system againt it. The main healt care system is made by 52 independent states.

          • Superfly

            FERMA DI SPAMMARTI STUPID FUCK!

          • Jake321

            Hey, idiot, Norway is right next door. Those other countries are not. Norway and Sweden are low density. Those others are high density. Norway has much more restrictive rules than Sweden. And Swedes are dying at three times the rate of Norwegians. In just two weeks or so, Sweden has seen about half the deaths from the Pandemic as total annual deaths from a typical flu season. In one week they will match it and still be increasing. But maybe you think Sweden and Norway are faking their death numbers also just to prove you wrong? Your arrogant ignorance is amazing.

          • RichardD

            Sweden, Belgium and Denmark are all contiguous neighbors with the same size and population density largest cities. If your economic implosion plan worked so well. Why do Belgium and Denmark have double and triple the deaths per million of Sweden?

          • Jake321

            There you go again, cherry picking when not lying. The countries way more like Sweden in most all ways are its contiguous neighbors Norway and Finland. They imposed restrictions way earlier and more stringent than Sweden. As a result they have way lower death rates per million population. That’s the reality. Not your lies and diversions and irrelevancies and misunderstandings and just plain ignorance, AH.

          • RichardD
          • RichardD

            If you don’t like my international comparisons, then an irrational truth hater like you who rejects and can’t disprove quality evidence, is sure to dislike national comparisons disproving your lies and stupidity.

            The states not under statewide lockdown have on average lower deaths per million than their contiguous neighbors on their borders under statewide lockdown.

            AL 12

            <

            MS 20, TN 11, GA 32, FL 14

            ——————————————————–

            TX 6, OK 17, AR 5, UT 4, WY 0, ND 5, SD 7, NE 5, IA 8, MO 9

            <

            NM 6, AZ 11, CO 27, KS 9, NV 20, ID 8, MT 6, MN 6, WI 16, IL 30, KY 13, TN 11, MS 20, LA 125

            ——————————————————–

            – United States
            Coronavirus Cases:
            393,782
            Deaths:
            12,692
            Recovered:
            21,561 –

            https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

          • Jake321

            California where the community spread of the Pandemic started weeks before it got to most all those other states has a lower death per million rate still than most of those states you list. Mostly because California was also the first state to impose strict remediation, AH. Try to keep up and stop your arrogant ignorant lies.

          • RichardD

            Your complaint was not comparing contiguous jurisdictions. Now I’ve just done that extensively to show lower deaths per million in contiguous, demographically similar places. And you ignore it and try to change the parameters.

            California isn’t a contiguous state or even as close to non lockdown states as Belgium and the Netherlands are to Sweden. And it has twice the deaths of Texas which isn’t under statewide lockdown and has had it as long as California.

          • Jake321

            You lost the argument about the contiguous Nordic countries so you divert to states most of which have not had community spread to have any significant stats yet. You make up crap here like you did about Europe. You say countries are alike and contiguous when they are not. Now you note states most of which haven’t had the Virus long enough to say much about. I note California which has had this the longest and still is at a level better than most of the early states you listed. I previously compared California and Washington who have had this the same time. Both now have strict rules but Washington states a couple of weeks after. It now has deaths at a rate about 6 times greater than California. So I await your next irrelevant diversions and arrogant ignorance. Oh, come back in three weeks when the other states have had this as long and California and then compare. California will still be better than most all of them and most all will by then have much stricter mitigation because they will realize as Sweden and Japan now have the error of their ways. But you will still claim you are correct and everyone else is wrong regardless of the facts and will make up even more outlandish tinfoil hat bigoted bull crap. Bye bye.

          • RichardD
          • Jake321

            It is you who are the liar. Texas has statewide restrictions. You lied and said it had none. Utah has restrictions covering most of the state’s population. You lied and said it had none. Wyoming has restrictions on its major ski areas. You lied and said it had none. Nebraska has statewide restrictions. You lied and said it had none. So you lied about most of the states you claimed. Now jump up and down and divert and nit pick and cherry pick and throw in irrelevant crap and and and and…95% of the US is now covered by serious restrictions and in a week it will be about 100%. And after three weeks we can compare the death rates based on how long it took to put on restrictions after significant community spread related deaths in each state. We can compare California with Washington and them with NY right now. Pretty obvious that early restrictions helped.

            And again, you can’t stop lying and arrogantly spouting your ignorance and tinfoil hat bigoted crap like it’s all created by the Jews to bring on the NWO or some such. Enough with you, AH.

          • RichardD

            I said that they didn’t have a statewide lockdowns destroying their economies.

          • RichardD

            We can compare your scam statistics right now. There’s no need to wait. And reduce them by up to 90% as the fraud that they are. Just like the Italian statistics that I called out as lies almost immediately when the run up started.

            – Dr. Birx Confirms Anyone Who Dies WITH Coronavirus, Regardless of Any Underlying Health Condition, is Being Counted as a COVID-19 Death –

            https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/dr-birx-confirms-anyone-dies-coronavirus-regardless-underlying-health-condition-counted-covid-19-death-video/

          • RichardD

            Face the facts idiot. Texas, Brazil, Japan and others have had the virus as long as California. They’re not locked down, they haven’t destroyed their economies, and their deaths per million are lower than California’s.

          • RichardD

            Scandinavia and the lowland countries are usually considered contiguous. California and the midwest states are not. So who lost the argument loser?

          • RichardD

            Denmark shares a border with Sweden and is lifting restrictions. They must have a different vision of Sweden’s handling of the virus and what the future holds than you do. Austria is also lifting restrictions, and they border northern Italy. Where they multiple every virus death by 10 to give chicken littles like you something to squawk about.

          • Jake321

            Damn, you can’t stop demonstrating your arrogant ignorance. Now look at the map. Do you notice all those miles of open sea between Denmark and Sweden? Do you notice that thousand miles of common boarder between Norway and Sweden? Oh, and Denmark has a density some 7 times that of Sweden. Now look on that map again. There is another Nordic country with a very long common boarder with Sweden. Finland. It has a similar density to Sweden but acted fast, similar to Norway on the other side of Sweden. Finland has a death rate per million only one tenth of Sweden. You can’t stop getting it wrong. Go lick those doorknobs and handrails, AH.

          • Jens Holm

            He might learn from this. Its a fact here that influence decline or go away here in the summertime. We spread out in gardens, forrest and do swimming in the sea.

            The spreading does it. Its not the temperature.

        • Jake321

          You lie as usual. Italy and Germany never said they were falsifying their numbers. And please prove that NYC is falsifying it’s numbers as you claim. Spain has worse figures than Italy and Germany. Prove they are also liars, AH. You truly are a tinfoil hat looney toon. Next you’ll claim the the Earth is flat and only 6,000 years old, that the US never landed on the Moon, that Hitler was a misunderstood nice guy, that Jews did 9-11 and chocolate milk comes from brown cows. Those doorknobs and handrails await.

          • RichardD

            I’ve posted the Italian and German falsification many times. And you reject judicial and scientific quality evidence that would stand up in any objective court of law. What does that say about you?

            Judging from your down vote to upvote ratio. Which is the worst on the site. You’d lose in court.

          • Jake321

            As always, you can’t stop with your arrogant ignorance. If you missed it, there has been a down vote auto bot on Disqus for almost a year now. And on this site, I’m NOT here in some popularity race to get approval from the likes of you, Adolf. Again, you claimed the governments of Italy and Germany said their own stats were false. The never did such a thing. You are a blatant liar.

          • RichardD

            I didn’t claim it without quality proof. The government officials stated it. If you speak German and Italian you can watch the videos of them publicly stating it:

            “Published : March 24, 2020; Updated : April 3, 2020

            The President of the German Robert Koch Institute confirmed on March 20, 2020 that test-positive deceased people are counted as “corona deaths” regardless of the real cause of death: “We consider someone with a corona virus infection to be a corona death was, «said the RKI President when asked a journalist (see video below).

            According to experts, the number of deaths is severely relativized, since the patients die in many cases from their previous illnesses and not from the virus. Data from Italy show that over 99% of the deceased had one or more chronic medical conditions, including cancer and heart problems, and only 12% mentioned the coronavirus on the death certificate as a cofactor.”

            – RKI relativizes “corona deaths” –

            https://swprs.org/rki-relativiert-corona-todesfaelle/

          • RichardD

            All of the downvotes that I’ve seen you receive are from others posting comments here, many of whom post replies to you critical of your lies and stupidity.

        • Jens Holm

          You did same mistake yeterday. You forgot that many more dead ones in usa also is based on, they are 330 millions.

          A good way for a lot about this and a lot of other things are to see how many has die´d in %.

          I allow med to add its not even on the top now for the whole world.

          Fighting pandemics as damge control is saimple. You have to do classic things. Those are isolating the virus or bactaria by distance among each other and keep it – like here – by washing hands, faces, feet on fridays and no coughing.

          But You have to do that as fast and well right away. Its not 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.9 – Its fx 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256

          Its also very miuch about trust. You have to trust Your Goverment and Maindoctirs and do exact what they tell You.

          Italy, USA and Spain did not do that at all.

          Not even coffinmakers are happy anymore.

      • RichardD

        Belgium and the Netherlands have double and triple the deaths per million that Sweden has right next door. So who’s fudging the numbers to get bailout money?

        • Jake321

          Hey, dodo, I said you cherry picked or didn’t understand the numbers. Not that you fudged them. You show your ignorance by not knowing the difference or not being able to read and understand what’s written. Anyway, the Netherlands and Belgium are similar countries. Sweden and Norway are similar countries. For example, those Scandinavian countries are only about 5% the population density. By not recognizing this you as usual show more of your arrogant ignorance. And what bailout money? Whatever my wife and I automatically get as tax payers is being donated to charities. What you doing with yours, AH? Go prove your point and lick those Downtown Seattle public doorknobs and handrails, already.

          • RichardD

            The large cities where most of the deaths are have similar population densities.

          • Jake321

            And if you missed it as you miss most other things, all pandemics can effect distant cities differently especially at the beginning. Come back about Tokyo in two weeks. Oh, and Tokyo has called on a stay-at-home with expected social/cultural conformity. But their numbers are starting to accelerate and they will also likely make this mandatory as it gets worse. Just as Sweden has started to now:

            “…the Public Health Agency put new guidelines in place that mandate every person to ‘keep a distance’ from others…”

            As it gets worse and they keep having a much higher death rate than their Nordic neighbors, they will try to play catchup. Check back in two weeks. Oh, speaking of a few weeks, only a few weeks ago you were touting Italy as proof positive that this Pandemic was a hoax or at worst a nothing burger. Damn, you said Italy only had 400 total deaths. Now that it has over 10,000 you say the numbers are a lie. You are one sick puppy, AH, without licking those doorknobs and handrails.

          • RichardD

            14,000 deaths times 12% is 1,700 deaths. Who died of the virus, not with it. That many die in a week in Italy during peak flu season as part of the 15,000 that die of the flu every year.

            They’re not my numbers. They’re the Italian health department reevaluated death certificate numbers.

          • Jake321

            No they are not. You lie as always. Those are NOT the official numbers and they do NOT say those who died with other underlying illness did not die from the Pandemic. Further, in terms of the Pandemic, that claim is way too old to have much meaning now. Oh, and Spain now is now about as bad as Italy, as are several other countries, with no such evidenced claim about their data. You can’t win for losing, loser.

          • RichardD

            According to the Italian NIH only 12% of people who died with the virus had it listed as a causal factor death on the death certificate. The NIH determined that the other 88%, all of whom had at least 1 comorbidity, did not have the virus as a causal factor of death listed on the death certificate, and did not die of the virus:

            “I want to stress that they have died having coronavirus, not because of it”, the head of the country’s Civil Protection Department, Angelo Borrelli said at a briefing.”

            – Italy’s COVID-19 Death Toll Surges by 627 to 4,032 Over Past 24 Hours – Health Official –

            https://sputniknews.com/world/202003201078637968-live-updates-coronavirus-cases-top-245000-globally-death-toll-surpasses-10000/

            https://twitter.com/andrewbostom/status/1241537942159536128?s=20

    • RichardD

      The virus is unlikely to even make the top 10 leading causes of death in Washington state.
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5a2db0f838f1f20ce21974438fa84aa71c8488a17e9f1ae22ce1a5c04e42af89.jpg

      • Jake321

        Didn’t you say they put in place draconian restrictions? Well, thanks for saying those restrictions work.

        • RichardD

          After 2 1/2 months of their models being consistently wrong. If you’re not going to crash the economy for the top 10 leading causes of death. Which includes communicable disease. Unless you’re a habitually lying Zionist facist depraved pervert. Why on earth would you crash it for a cause of death that doesn’t even make the top 10?

          • Jake321

            You can’t stop with your false assumptions and questions. So when did you stop raping little kids. And where did you bury the ones your murder? Now answer that. The one who has proved wrong here is you. Starting back when you said no problem in Italy which now has over 15,000 deaths even with draconian restrictions. From the time you it’s all a hoax in the US by Jews trying to create the NWO or some such looney toon bigoted nonsense. NYC which out off strict rules too long, not only has more Pandemic deaths than twice the annual flu in just a couple of weeks or so. They have a death rate from this Pandemic so far greater than the first wave of the Spanish Flu a century ago. Oh, Japan decided not to listen to you the high school dropout genius and just declared a national emergency to try to forestall the Pandemic. And Sweden keeps tightening its restrictions too little too late as can be seen in the comparison to its twin neighbor, Norway. In sum, you’re an arrogant ignoramus but entertaining in a sick way. To make your point, though, please refuse the government Pandemic handouts and lick those doorknobs and handrails already. Bye bye.

          • RichardD

            If after 3 months of having the virus and still no lockdown or economic suicide of the type that you shill for. Japan has 100 deaths. Maybe they’re not counting people who died of other diseases as virus deaths and are doing a much better job treating the sick so that they don’t die.

            – Japan opts for emergency but ‘no lockdown,’ keeping its eye on the economy –

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/japan-opts-for-emergency-but-no-lockdown–keeping-its-eye-on-economy/2020/04/07/16145058-78a5-11ea-a311-adb1344719a9_story.html

  • Jake321

    And if you think it’s getting real bad here, which it likely will, just remember that when the US steps in doo doo most of the rest of the World takes a wild dive down the latrine.

  • Assad must stay

    Everything in US is a scam now, I just got scammed out of a new job they told me I was hired then they said they don’t have enough funds to hire new people, UNITED STATES OF SCAM!!!!

  • AG Korvin

    If so, expect a crumbling Russia, for much the same reasons.

    • Jens Holm

      Of course it does.

      Many here live in fantasy op wishes and hopes, because they produce nothingthemselves and expect the rest of us should do like them and even give those no learning lazy bums money because it give honor and respect being born born and reamin as littlel diaper weeping boys.

      I gain no respect sniff sniff.

      And Yes, they gain no respect. We gain respeckt here for what we do and not just because somebody has amputated us below.

      Sorry – I have a very bad temper today .

      I wish they all shaked hands, but not with me:) 2% is better then none:)

      • Superfly

        Ferma lo shithead dello spam

  • igybundy

    Expecting a drastic drop off in arrogant twitter exceptionalism…

  • hvaiallverden

    Yup, I dont go into debating the future economics since its in the future, but the trends are clear, we are loosing while the elite are winning, period, anything else is divertions, and when some states are even banning farming as an sort of non-essesial, yeah, to not been able to do the right things I know the downward tradjectory was already set before this uh… pandemic kicked in, this will just accelerate the downward force, and the nations debt is also increasing to new heights and nobody cares.
    Debts is good, acording to the Trump thing, what then to expect, but to be brutaly honest, I really dont give an f… about the banana republic, because they have never cared about anyone else than them selfs, so why even bother, lett the exseptionals go the way they want.
    The thing is, everbody is strugling, the housing witch was insanly high, will just go higher, debt accumulated, not writen off, the students are thrown out to the wulfs, and in a nation like Norway, been plundered for the future to come, and when the housing is gone beserk, I guess the low income classes and students are in for an future witch looks more like an Dickensian nightmare, and nobody cares, not the left nor the right, and both sides have never cared about their own people, never, it was the right that wanted unlimited invasion of foreign workers in the 70s so they could undermine the natives, the left do the same, but for another reason, for the invasion is because of wars and poverty, and the fake left never cared for their own, not then and not now.
    Because somehow, havent you noticed this, non of them is That intressed in ending the wars, the fake left, nope, the right, in Norway they where gloathing since Iranians was dying, and that, was in our JudenPress not even hate speache, and the jerk off fest went into warp drive when Palestinians was dying, and screams at the Chines, I can slamm a lot of people, but I dont gloath when some of the rats are sick, because usually they have loved once to, etc, but the same f…. never cared about the thousands of Childen slaughtered in Yemen, because the Wahabi scums the Saudi-barbarians are the friends of the west, its an insane paradox, while the rightwinged whines about Islamic terror they have zero problems with surporting and armying the wahabi rats, yeah, the theater of the absurd.

    The Gov is run by scumbags, whom have dragged our society down thru decades, built down everything incl health care, infrastructure is rotting, an railway system dont jack shit to since the 60s, thrown trillions after billionears, etc, taken from the health care and pensioners/poor and so on, and again, sides dont mean jack shit, the effect have been the same even when the Gov is left or right, nothing have changed.

    And to highlight the banana republic, I have one key word, 24 trillion dollars just evaporated, the military IC have and is sucking half of the Gov income, then we have the Medical IC, witch is plundering the people, Inshurance Corps, etc, and then the Taxregimes, whom is throwing mooney after the banking system in its various forms, and now privatisied everything and austeritys have crashed the rest.
    I am a bit tired of repeating this, but untill we end the wars, nothing will change, and I dont think the banana republic will go down and out, just become more of an banana republic, and lord have mercy upon the people, but to feel sorry for them, no f…. way.
    They deserve everything, period.

    The only solution, since I usually dont even bother to debate comunism/socialism/facism and whom do what, since its so bloody obvious that if you havent gotten it to day, you will never get it into the future, the problem is, parasits (central banks, etc to corrupt Gov we have debated that counteless times so I dont bother to do that either to day), thats it, the world is been screwed by the central banking system/s, from the FeD to IMF, and again, if you stil dont get it, then shut the f…. up, because you are to me, either willfully bilnd or just an plain idiot, they have crashed nations upon nations, indebted everything up to their eyeballs, and suffocating the people since the nations income goes to this scumbags, and so on, and the solution have been privatising everything, and that alone have shoot the costs of living to kingdome comes, and debt have ruined farming, Denmark is an briliant ex. on just that, and India to, my hart bleeds for them all, and then we have the GMO/Pesticides, witch have ruined the land, the overfishing the seas and the only f…. issue people debate is about CO2, and the reason, is to hide the ugly truth, behind an wall of total bullshit instead of debating the destruction of our world and destorying people and nations.
    I leave it there.
    The solution, again since I drifted a bit off, is, and I know that this is the only solution that will make the crash much less deadly/catastophic, for humans and nations, is to erase the debt, everything, everywhere, and reset the entire globe, it will do much more for everything from enviroment to students, tax and end the wars, this will NOT erase the trade, this is like the medicine they whine about to day, this erasing will Only kill the parasit/s, nothing else, we dont need them, but they cant live without an host.

    Anything, and I mean any f…. thing else isnt anything than flatout delusion, the erasion is like wiping an HD clean, to start again, I know this is the only path forward, but I also know that this institutes that have been given mooney in tonns, printed out of the thin air, now, just an klick on an tab with usury witch feeds the Parasit/s, will not be happy, but its our bloody work that have saved their asses counteless times, and our Gov stil do what they can to save the elite while the f… is robbing us blind.
    I said it befor and say it again, if not, the only thing left is to burn them down and hang the scums incl the polticians and the MSM the true enemy of man.
    WE need an revolution, if peacefully is not an option, then the bloody one is inevietable, us or them, its an class war, people, and we are loosing.
    WE have just one option, their NWO or Ours.

    Wake the f…. up.

    peace